Where in the bible does it say that women cant be ministers?

Originally posted by Clearskies
reply to post by scientist

 

You should say,
"No apple, no evil, no pain, no tears."

Nothing is absolute. With knowledge comes the burden of that knowledge. With power comes responsibility. With joy comes eventual sorrow, while sorrow leaves the potential for joy.

The One thing they were told not to do and they messed it up for everybody!

You believe your god is all-knowing.
You believe your god is all-powerful.
You don't believe that Adam and Eve disobeying him was part of his plan?
He made the tree. He made the pair. He told them to not eat from the tree, and the penalty for it. He then sends the serpent to tempt them, knowing perfectly well what the result will be.

Why do we want to know about evil when we had the Good?!!!

Because evil makes good even more precious. When you see and understand hte alternative...

I personally won't go to a church where a woman preaches.
The bible forbids women from pastoring or usurping authority over men.

And Jesus forbids public prayer, so what the heck are you doing going to church at all?

So from what I read here...it looks as though that there is not a good reason as to why women cant preach.


So I read several articles today on the web and there seenms to be a lot of hate directed towards female preachers.

Now I will try to get this out right....Preaching is teaching...women can be teachers of men but cannot preach to them...The bible is a book...period. I can burn it, I can tear it...hell anything I want to do to it, I can. Same with any book I own...It is filled with words and words are used to teach. Now why is it so different as to who teaches it? As long as the content/message is conveyed correctly?

If the bible were to be rewritten today...with the views on equality we have today...Do you think it would go over very well?

To your question,nowhere in the bible. Those passage are only for women not to make thier husband a fool. By speaking when thier husband is talking. They were not allow speak in public too. The only place they were allow to speak was at home.

This is why I like ATS: the divergence of opinion and the willingness to debate in a mostly decent fashion. Having said that, I guess it's time for me to stick my 2 cents in. Although not a church goer, or even a believer in God myself, I can definitely repect those that do. Though I don't believe, I still read the bible as it does have some very useful information and rules to live by in it. I would like to think that todays Christian, Muslim, or Jew would be up with the times and not care WHO was preaching the word of God, as lomg as they were doing it right and not in a judgemental or injurious way to others. In Paganism, women have had an important role as teachers of this 'faith system' and have done so responsibly since ancient times. Women have also played extremely important roles in Judaism and Christianity and also in Islam as well. Who can forget Ruth and Esther in the Old Testament and even Jesus' mother Mary in the New Testament as being important stalwarts of the Jewish Religion and even of the Christian religion itself. And I am sure that there are Muslim women who have been important figures in that religion, too.

Originally posted by kennethmd
To your question,nowhere in the bible. They were not allow speak in public too. The only place they were allow to speak was at home.

I didn't read THAT anywhere in scripture.

Originally posted by Yknot

Originally posted by kennethmd
To your question,nowhere in the bible. They were not allow speak in public too. The only place they were allow to speak was at home.

I didn't read THAT anywhere in scripture.

1st. Corinthians 14 verse 34, 35. Let the woman keep silent in the churches;for they are not permitted to speak,but let them subject themselvse,just as the Law also says.And if they desire to learn anything,let them askthier own husbands at home;for it isimproper for a women to speak in church.

God is not going get angry;if some woman decided to become a minister.

[edit on 13-2-2008 by kennethmd]

In doing hands on research, I have been to both types of churches.

The first type believes that women must be silent and subservient to their husbands. In the absence of a husband or an unmarried single woman she is to be silent under the direction of the pastor. Even in these types of churches women are permitted to speak and give testimony, and to speak or translate tounges. They are not however permitted to lead services and may teach only other groups of women, and under the pastors oversight. They believe the Bible to be the undisputed word of God with no exceptions.

Many researchers dispute the letters in favor of the Nag Hamadi books in which Jesus uplifts Mary as a full participant. Gee wonder why those got left out.

The other type of churches allow female participation in all events. They believe the actual hand of God and the Holy Spirit manifest where they please and work through who they please.

Myself i'm OK with a lot of Joyce Meyer's material and others who are truly driven to preach, but many women in the field are not driven and it shows in their teaching and sermons.

Its like ice cream, pick a flavor and thats what you get.

I'll tell you why, our whole evolution (oops there was no evolution) revolved around the male being of the dominant sex and the female submissive, all these millions of years, the man has always been bigger, stronger and took charge.

Through natural selection (oops there is no natural selection) the male human has been molded into the leader, protector and ultimate authority in the family unit.

Fast forward to the last 50 years or so, now the female of the species has been handed this burden thru political correctness. I say burden because they haven't evolved over countless millions of years to handle this added responsibility, a responsibility with which they fail dismally through no real fault of their own. the family unit has been destroyed, via the ability of the woman to argue with the main, even the ability to leave the man. With argument comes resentment, with submission comes peace.

The bible is about submission, as the man submits to the chruch, the woman submits to the man. There is the saying that too many chefs spoil the broth just as too many chiefs cause disharmony in the tribe.

I have nothing against women, they have their place as do us men. It is just right that each should know their place. And in this day and age nobody knows their place, thus the confusion, strife and the breaking of families that we see.

You don't have to look far for the answer. Just look at the same region today. Women are still second-class citizens and not much more than property. These laws had nothing to do with God and everything about controlling people. There are endless laws in the Bible, which are considered archaic and outdated, and no one with any brain cells would suggest using them. Women are qualified to do anything and everything on this planet with the correct training - just like men. It is only the arrogance and ego of men who hold back women. File it under the category of, "no women is going to teach me what to do...I'm a man damnit."

reply to post by saint4God
Where Saint4God quotes

"Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible." - Matthew 19:26

Did you read the passage just before that? Or did you tweak the passage to mirror your argument....I believe if you go just one passage back to Matthew 19:25 you'll see that they are discussing who can be saved or not, it has nothing to do with women or men teaching the word of God.
Furthermore, when you highlighted the words "I suffer not" a woman to teach.......that is not a crutch to your defense either, in biblical tongue of that day it meant that someone does not have to suffer because of something happening. So to say I suffer not...is to say that I don't suffer......because this is not happening. Hence, I suffer not a woman to teach = I don't suffer, if she don't teach. I suspect it was a bit dramatic to insinuate there would actually be suffering while a woman taught but as the guy back there said.....let one teach for 3 hours and I concur....it is suffering. The bible makes it clear that the apostles were "inspired" by the Holy Spirit while penning the Bible. So it is the authority of God by proxy that you question and the words don't seem that unclear to me, even if you tweak them to support your argument, we can still go and look it up and see, as Paul Harvey says "the rest of the story". The bible also says in several places that God protects his word to make sure that it is not tarnished, so don't think that one part of the bible is correct while others have been tainted by man. There is passage to reference this in the bible, challenge me and I shall respond with your evidence. As for Adam being the culprit who ruined it for all mankind? It is said by God who had it in their heart to deceive and lure and to most likely use her "charms" to entice Adam to join her while she sinned. After all, has this tactic ever really changed or gone away? Every man alive has been ripped off or deceived by a woman using sexual charm to get her way. The authority that is usurped from man is clear. It is ANY authority that puts the man in subjection to the woman in opposition to God's clear messages. A woman in the churches, a woman in the workplace anywhere. After all, this among other punishments such as labor pains in child birth, (subjection) is one of womans punishments for luring Adam to partake of this "forbidden fruit", You have to ask yourself this question? WHY WOULD SATAN SKIP ADAM AND GO TO EVE TO MAKE SURE GOD WAS BETRAYED? I will let the following forum entries answer that one.

Originally posted by kennethmd

Originally posted by Yknot

Originally posted by kennethmd
To your question,nowhere in the bible. They were not allow speak in public too. The only place they were allow to speak was at home.

I didn't read THAT anywhere in scripture.

1st. Corinthians 14 verse 34, 35. Let the woman keep silent in the churches;for they are not permitted to speak,but let them subject themselvse,just as the Law also says.And if they desire to learn anything,let them askthier own husbands at home;for it isimproper for a women to speak in church.

God is not going get angry;if some woman decided to become a minister.

[edit on 13-2-2008 by kennethmd]

I still don't see where it instructs a woman to be "quiet in public".

Incredible !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A women bashing thread here in ATS.

I see that for what it looks many of our so call Christians followers of their own interpretation of the bible will love to see women bare footed, pregnant, siting in the back of the cars and following men 3 feet behind.

Oh hell, this Sharia law

But in Christan version.

What a joke, denied Ignorance people.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
Nothing is absolute. With knowledge comes the burden of that knowledge. With power comes responsibility. With joy comes eventual sorrow, while sorrow leaves the potential for joy.

Only because of the curse! You think you have to be sad to appreciate happiness? NO! But, because of the curse, we have sin and pain.

You believe your god is all-knowing.
You believe your god is all-powerful.
You don't believe that Adam and Eve disobeying him was part of his plan?
He made the tree. He made the pair. He told them to not eat from the tree, and the penalty for it. He then sends the serpent to tempt them, knowing perfectly well what the result will be.

It wasn't his plan. He knew the choice they would make, but, he let THEM make it! They had TWO trees that were their destiny. The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and evil, and The Tree of Life(from which, the fruit grew)
One to cause death and the other one to give eternal Life!

Let's see, which one did they choose?
THE WRONG one!

Because evil makes good even more precious. When you see and understand hte alternative...

That's YOUR ultimate existence? You think We should ALWAYs keep a few child molestors and murderers so we can appreciate when we're not murdered or our children aren't molested? Not in My Book!

And Jesus forbids public prayer, so what the heck are you doing going to church at all?

It doesn't say that At All!
It says Not to Pray so That you are seen, just to BE seen. You know?
Like, if it's so the congregates will draw their breath in and think, "Oh, how pious! He/she is SUCH a humble, powerful servant!" P-R-I-D-E.

We don't want them pregnant! Just another way for a woman to squeeze the life out of a man by USING children to get free money. Most women pop out a kid these days, and knowing the support of the court is inevitably on THEIR side nearly 100% of the time, they get a divorce and hit the jackpot. Seems pathetic to me that women always seem to "forget" taking the pill or tell the man "you know, if we have a beautiful child, I believe it would bring us closer together" ..all the while doing nothing but deceiving the man yet again just so they can have an 18-20+ year payday that they don't deserve. Cry about 9 months of discomfort and put a man through 20 years or more of pure financial hell. Most of the time making the man destitute or spending his life in and out of jail, taking his home, starving his future children with another (more appreciative wife) court taking his license and then telling him to get a job. Giving the wife everything he owns in payment for what he can no longer afford. There is a conspiracy against men in this country and I think maybe we should NOT have you PREGNANT in the kitchen. The rest is fine though, yep the rest sounds pretty good. I'll have some of that, thank you!

Originally posted by kaferwerks
I saw this statement and was wondering if someone could point me in the right directions to see it for myself. I have a hard time believing it is in the Bible...Anyway can you help a brother out?

Kafer

Hi Kafer/

As other members here have also quoted.... "Let your women keep silence in the churches" (1 Cor. 13,34).
We have a clear understanding that, woman is created in man’s image and not in God’s image.
and some others.......The first hierarchs of the Church of Christ were the Holy Apostles, not women.
The Chief Shepherd Jesus Christ Himself appointed them to tend to God's flock, to administer the Church,
to celebrate the Holy Communion (Luke 22,18), to teach and to baptize (Mt. 28,19), to bind and to loose, to anoint and to heal (Mr. 6,13), etc.
When ordaining deacons (Acts 6,6), presbyters (Acts 14,23; Tit. 1,5) and bishops (2 Tim. 1,6) they never ordained women.
On the contrary, they instructed women to practice silence and godliness (1 Tim. 2,10-12)
Jesus Christ did not choose women among the twelve Apostles, but only men!
The bishops and clergy through the laying on of hands—a practice started by the apostles, and that this unbroken historical and physical link is an essential element of the true church (Acts 8:17, 1 Tim 4:14, Heb 6:2)
This was also present in the Old Testament.
God took Flesh and became man,and not woman.


In the Old Testament .......“The Lord appeared to Abraham… He
looked up and saw three men…”
(Genesis 18)
In the New Testament, God revealed Himself through Jesus Christ.

God is the Lord and has revealed Himself
to us; blessed is He who comes in the
Name of the Lord.” (Psalm 118:26-27)

And the Word became flesh, and dwelt
among us, full of grace and truth; we
have beheld His glory, glory as the only-
begotten Son of the Father. And from
His fullness have we all received grace
upon grace” (John 1:14-18)

Although Women are honoured, women are not allowed into the priesthood.
Christ himself honoured John the Baptist by praising him greatly and raising him higher than the Old Testament prophets and men of his time ( Matt 11:7 14; Luke 7: 24 28).
The Church honours the Saints, just as the Apostle Paul mentions men and women of the Old Testament and refers to their achievements and praises them greatly (Heb 11:4 38).
Holy Revelation, "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle" (2 Thess 2: 15).
Christ clearly chose those whom He willed (Mark 3, 13 – 14; John 6 :70).
He did so in conjunction with the Paraclete and God the Father (Acts 1 : 2) after intense prayer (Luke 6 : 12).
Male priests became intimately associated with the mission of Jesus Christ as the Incarnate Logos (Mark 16 : 14 – 15).
The Apostles also prayed before selecting and appointing their assistants (1 Timothy 3 : 1 – 13 ; 2 Timothy 1: 6).
Do times change?
Yes!
Does God change?
No.

Read more on the ~Role of Women....

IX
helen

reply to post by Clearskies


How exactly does one act like a man? Pee standing up?
Do you also condone stoning of adulteresses, Do you eat Kosher?
Because you obviously follow genesis literally as your creation story, so if one follows genesis do you not also follow the rest of the book?
Or is this a matter of picking and choosing?

Why does a woman who is vital in the rearing and raising of children not have the ability to teach and guide a congregation?
Do you also feel it is wrong for a woman to be the President or CEO of a company, should she instead be barefoot and pregnant at home to be seen and not heard


I as a woman and wife, will consult my husband and if he feels strongly about something I will consent to his wishes...IF i find them appropriate, but I do not submit, just as I dont expect him or any other adult to submit to me.

reply to post by Phenomium



I find this post more offensive than anything else i have ever read here on this site.
I have more I could say but it would surely get me a warning so I will leave it at this.

reply to post by gluetrap


Hi gluetrap/

If you may allow me to answer !

Women are not at all seen as some may think!

Women played a very important role in Jesus Christs time....

Jesus was accompanied by a number of women while going out to preach. This was not well received by the Jews many of whom accused Jesus of making women neglect Jewish purification rights (Luke 23 :2).
In fact Epiphanius of Salamis explains that Jesus was leading women and children astray. He tells us in Adversus Haereses 42 that : “kai apostrephonta tas gynaikas kai ta tekna…”.

Mark tells us that after Christ went to cities or villages and preached he was accompanied by Mary Magdalene and Susanna, and Joanna amongst many others ( Luke 8 : 1 –3).
............When people waited and prayed for the coming of the Paraclete after the Ascension, there were undoubtedly women amongst them (Acts 1 : 14) but on the day of Pentecost, the Paraclete filled them all, both men and women (Acts 2 : 1; 1-14).
And yet it was only “Peter and the Eleven” who proclaimed the fulfillment of the Prophecies in Jesus (Acts 2 : 14).

Quote above

IX
helen

Originally posted by Phenomium
We don't want them pregnant! Just another way for a woman to squeeze the life out of a man by USING children to get free money. Most women pop out a kid these days, and knowing the support of the court is inevitably on THEIR side nearly 100% of the time,

Sherman set the wayback machine to 1659.........

Wow that is a whole lot of ignorance in one post.

At anyrate is is off topic and if you wish to further delve into your theories about the fairer sex, there is a thread in BTS called RANTS.

Otherwise, kindly stay ON topic which the last time I checked was Where in the bible does it say that women cant be ministers?

Originally posted by gluetrap
How exactly does one act like a man? Pee standing up?

Have you ever seen a female army general? That's the way MOST of them I've seen acted. But, let me assure you, I've seen nice ones, too.
But, they were very out- of-place.
I'm from the country, farmers, ranchers, construction, mostly.
Now, when these men have to come each week to hear some lady tell them how to live, how to know God, it's backwards! Do you know a lot of testosterone-filled men, because, I do.

Do you also condone stoning of adulteresses, Do you eat Kosher?
Because you obviously follow genesis literally as your creation story, so if one follows genesis do you not also follow the rest of the book?
Or is this a matter of picking and choosing?

No, but, I also don't really hold to the 6,000 year old Earth theory, Either,
Is one day In Genesis 24 Hour?
I don't know.
The Hebrews had the True Temple in Jerusalem, when those were to be observed. It became a den of thieves and subsequently, the veil of the Temple was torn in two and nullified THOSE Levitical mandates.

Why does a woman who is vital in the rearing and raising of children not have the ability to teach and guide a congregation?
Do you also feel it is wrong for a woman to be the President or CEO of a company, should she instead be barefoot and pregnant at home to be seen and not heard

I've been married 12 years, with three boys. I have a LOT to say, as you can see on this forum, But, pastoring a church is forbidden.
My husband and I have a Great relationship! I don't pull him around by his nosehairs or henpeck him and he doesn't abuse or degrade ME. (Like The Bible says!)

I as a woman and wife, will consult my husband and if he feels strongly about something I will consent to his wishes...IF i find them appropriate, but I do not submit, just as I dont expect him or any other adult to submit to me.

That seems to be a Good protocol. If ANY man wants you to do something that is against The Bible(Drugs, Wife-swapping, stealing) Don't do it!
Look up Annanias and Saphirra.