Why do Christians always assume they're right?

well said once again fox...concerning topics on religion you can consider yourself a spokesperson for me (or if you don't want to ill consider you a spokesperson fo me) and those of us who think likewise and are not as articulate...

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox

You're nuts, then.

How immature. (and against the T&C)

Yes you do. "Faith, not works," isn't that how it goes?
I'd never guess it from the Wealth Doctrine.

No. "The Just shall live by faith." (Justification in God's sight)
That's talking about salvation, forgiveness, which comes from God by faith.
We are commanded to "work, for the night cometh when no man shall work."

Living on Earth requires effort.
But, you can ask God for help when you need it.

Cool, stick to that and leave those of us who don't buy into the self-loathing religion out of it.

The only time we loathe ourselves is when we've sinned against God or man.

Well for a nice big example, environmentalism. THe majority of Christians I've had the ill pleasure of speaking with on the subject are of solid opinion that, eh, doesn't matter, since the world is coming to an end soon anyway. Or that it's impossible for humans to foul god's perfect creation. Or for the real head-slapper, it's not their fault because it's those damned atheist Chinese making the mess!

Are you talking about air pollution and global warming?
Because some people don't believe there IS such a thing as global warming.
I do, although, I DON'T think it's from greenhouse gasses as much as it's from HAARP and chemtrails.
We've also been told by the media that the pollution from China is blowing our way. Christians should love the Chinese and Everyone else!

A smaller example? Why is it that no Christian is ever a "real Christian" if they do something crazy? "Eric Rudolph isn't our problem!" Often this spills from the same lips that want every Muslim on earth to hold a simultaneous press conference denouncing Osama bin Laden.

There are misled people of EVERY religion. I believe he was a christian.
Not good at it. I myself, hate abortion, but, I hate murdering people to stop it. We are told to love our enemies.
I also don't think all muslims are murderous zealots.
I used to date a Palestinian, born in Jerusalem.

And what does history teach us happens when one group of people sees themselves as elevated above the assorted "subhumans" around them?

No one is sub-human.

So you honestly believe your God is too busy watching football and pulling strings for the Giants so someone can pay their loan shark, instead of helping out the millions of people caught up in one conflict or another? Look, I figured I was being pretty generous to the Christian faith by presuming that most Christians don't actually think this, that it's just those who are already self-centered. Was I wrong?

God sees all.
He turns away from those that sin or ignore him.

It's sort of like how "Christian" encompasses Catholics, Baptists, Mormons, and the Amish.

No, it doesn't.

[edit on 12-2-2008 by Clearskies]

Originally posted by Clearskies
How immature. (and against the T&C)

I didn't mean it as an insult. It's quite simply my heartfelt opinion that someone who believes the entirety of humanity is spiritually corrupt because of a parable in one religion is insane. It strikes me as severe misanthropy. I didn't make you adopt this belief, and if you are free to share your opinion that by virtue of being human, I am inherently spiritually ill and need your god, then I am free to tell you I think you're loony because of that.

No. "The Just shall live by faith." (Justification in God's sight)
That's talking about salvation, forgiveness, which comes from God by faith.
We are commanded to "work, for the night cometh when no man shall work."

Coherent thoughts, please. If I want random and out-of-context scripture, I'll call up my Methodist uncle and ask him a question about the meaning of life.

Living on Earth requires effort.
But, you can ask God for help when you need it.

No problem there. It's the assumption that you can accomplish nothing without that help that bothers me.

The only time we loathe ourselves is when we've sinned against God or man.

Which according yo your initial statement about mankind's corrupt nature, is something you do from the moment of your birth.

Are you talking about air pollution and global warming?
Because some people don't believe there IS such a thing as global warming.
I do, although, I DON'T think it's from greenhouse gasses as much as it's from HAARP and chemtrails.
We've also been told by the media that the pollution from China is blowing our way. Christians should love the Chinese and Everyone else!

HAARP and chemtrails? Ai ya... Well, given the context of ATS, it could always be worse

Yeah, Christians should love the Chinese and everyone else. Trouble is it doesn't work out that way much.

There are misled people of EVERY religion. I believe he was a christian.
Not good at it. I myself, hate abortion, but, I hate murdering people to stop it. We are told to love our enemies.
I also don't think all muslims are murderous zealoots.
I used to date a Palestinian, born in Jerusalem.

Good for you.

No one is sub-human.

That's certainly not any sort of answer to the question I posed. I was not asking for your beleifs, but rather for what has happened in history every time one people regards another to be morally diseased and spiritually corrupt. For a case in point, how did European Christians treat jews for, well, most of Europe's history? How did Buddhists treat practitioners of Bon in Tibet? How did American landowners treat blacks and native Americans?

God sees all.
He turns away from those that sin or ignore him.

...Really. So this kind and loving deity of yours has no problem with millions dying because they're not paying enough attention to him? The suffering of the people starving right now in Tajikistan is deserved because htey don't belong to the right faith? Every man or woman murdered, raped, or otherwise brutalized in the United States today suffered so because htye had "turned from god"?

That's #ing sick.

No, it doesn't.

Yes, yes it does. Let me guess, Catholics aren't "real Christians" - because as we all know, Jesus Christ himself invested you with the authority to make judgement of who among those that accept him as savior are, and aren't actual Christians.

[edit on 12-2-2008 by TheWalkingFox]

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox

God sees all.
He turns away from those that sin or ignore him.

...Really. So this kind and loving deity of yours has no problem with millions dying because they're not paying enough attention to him? The suffering of the people starving right now in Tajikistan is deserved because htey don't belong to the right faith? Every man or woman murdered, raped, or otherwise brutalized in the United States today suffered so because htye had "turned from god"?

That's #ing sick.

No, it doesn't.

Yes, yes it does. Let me guess, Catholics aren't "real Christians" - because as we all know, Jesus Christ himself invested you with the authority to make judgement of who among those that accept him as savior are, and aren't actual Christians.

[edit on 12-2-2008 by TheWalkingFox]

lol im sorry. really. but I cant help it. this is too funny. i wish I could add to the discussion, (I know I am butting in..so for that I am sorry) but I can't help it when someone conveys exactly what I think and feel. again fox. u rule

just to add...

I know a LOT of Christians feel that because they (as in those who are starving, dying and/or dead) do not believe in Jesus and the christian "God" they are foresaken, therefore, they are getting what they "deserve" so to speak. If sick does not describe that belief then nothing does.

[edit on 9/16/07 by abelievingskeptic]

I know a LOT of Christians feel that because they (as in those who are starving, dying and/or dead) do not believe in Jesus and the christian "God" they are foresaken, therefore, they are getting what they "deserve" so to speak. If sick does not describe that belief then nothing does.




Hmmm....I don't know any Christians that believe that. You're watching too much fake Christian TV.

I think the resurrection of Jesus Christ is a primary reason. Buddha, Mohamed, L Ron Hubbard, John Smith etc. all have graves. There is more evidence for the resurrection than most events in history. Men gave there lives and would not recant their their testimonies that he rose from the dead. The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel covers the overwhelming historical evidence.

reply to post by idle_rocker


Idle_Rocker, meet Clearskies. Clearskies, meet Idle_Rocker.

Seriously, a Christian dude just state the exact same thing you're saying you've never seen a Christian say. It's right there!

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
I think the resurrection of Jesus Christ is a primary reason. Buddha, Mohamed, L Ron Hubbard, John Smith etc. all have graves. There is more evidence for the resurrection than most events in history. Men gave there lives and would not recant their their testimonies that he rose from the dead. The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel covers the overwhelming historical evidence.

You have got to be kidding me....

reply to post by luxor311


No kidding. The Christian religion is founded on the resurrection of Christ. Without it it would be meaningless.

Originally posted by blazingbattleax
Christians often take the vantage point of being right for the painfully simple fact that the Christian religion has more historical evidence to back it up than any other. Buddhist history is vague at best, Hindu is totally confusing and fictitious, and Islam's "religious history" changes with every book you read. Some books accuse Mohammed of spreading terror across arabia and north africa, leading armies and forcing people to convert under threat of death, whil other books (especially DK) claim that islam was a religon spread through a system of peaceful trading.
Aside from cult splinters, and radical, left wing churches that try to rewrite the bible, the church history has maintained its interior integrity, as well as being supported by numerous other historical accounts. They have found the remains of sodom and gamorrah, records prove the existance of pontius pilate and other key characters, and the documents go on.
Read the book "Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel. He was not a christian while he was gathering the data, and makes stunning points

Lee Strobel is only ONE author who try's to make a accurate historical case for Jesus and the resurrection. The majority of new testament historians don't even consider him an valid authority.

The book has a bit of fiction tied into it. Its impossible for humans to raise from the dead and float into the heavens, if you haven't noticed.

[edit on 12-2-2008 by luxor311]

Originally posted by idle_rocker

Hmmm....I don't know any Christians that believe that. You're watching too much fake Christian TV.

sorry. i don't watch any christian tv. i just hear and read what comes from a lot of christians' mouths...and uumm fingers?

and to clarify, i believe most of them to be posers and fakes, and they probably don't have much of a mind of their own. just eat up whatever crap they are being fed...i was one of them until i woke up a little and gave it some thought.

that being said, there are some who actually have done research to support their beliefs and validate some of their claims.... somewhat...usually the more informed and educated the Christian is the less likely they are to say those sort of things. I am mostly referring to those that don't think twice about what they are taught.

good for you if u don't feel that way

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
reply to post by luxor311

 

No kidding. The Christian religion is founded on the resurrection of Christ. Without it it would be meaningless.

Once again you cant use Lee Strobel's book as the difinative account of the life of Jesus.
Men cannot raise people from the dead or cure blindness. The stories most likely were for symbolic purposes only. Use your sense of reality look around you be kind to people out of your own heart and not what a book tells you.

Originally posted by luxor311
Lee Strobel is only ONE author who try's to make a accurate historical case for Jesus and the resurrection. The majority of new testament historians don't even consider him an valid authority.

The book has a bit of fiction tied into it. Its impossible for humans to raise from the dead and float into the heavens, if you haven't noticed.

[edit on 12-2-2008 by luxor311]

You are right. There are probably 1000's of books that defend the resurrection. Case for Christ is just one of the more accessible modern versions.

The Bible's claim is that Jesus was more than human. That's why Christians believe it was possible. I've never witnessed anyone raise from the dead or float into the heavens but that doesn't make it impossible.

Hey this is ATS --> Maybe the Angels flew down and beamed him up into a Starship.

Can someone please show me how to write the rite answer in the right column!!
Please!!

We christians are right. This is why over history we had the power to do things others didn't. God gave us the strenght to overcome anything. He gave the conquistadors power to control others and change history. over history the people who have won wars, changed the world and had an impact on society were always christians. therefore, you can't ever be wrong with it. God gives us unlimited power to do whatever we wish and he grants us the strenght.

About the muslims. I say, all christians unite and pick up a sword. it's time to take back the world and make it right.

Originally posted by jedimiller
We christians are right. This is why over history we had the power to do things others didn't. God gave us the strenght to overcome anything. He gave the conquistadors power to control others and change history. over history the people who have won wars, changed the world and had an impact on society were always christians. therefore, you can't ever be wrong with it. God gives us unlimited power to do whatever we wish and he grants us the strenght.

About the muslims. I say, all christians unite and pick up a sword. it's time to take back the world and make it right.

Thanks for show us what some 'christians who always assume they're right' are thinking and capable of, you are a great example.

Wonder what happened to love thy neighbour...


I guess the rest of the world should just Obey Christianity or Suffer.

Should extra-terrestrial intelligent life be afraid of mankind? If they are intelligent, they should! Because if I were to extend on your statement, sooner or later, your God will give you unlimited strength and power to dominate the universe, mult-verses and everything else, yes?

Ever wonder why people want to be atheists? Your statement is a clue.

[edit on 13-2-2008 by ixiy]

reply to post by luxor311



Fundamentalism on both the religious and non religious sides keeps individual spirituality at bay.

I think it is deliberate, because whenever someone actually lives in such a way that they manifest the power of God the world and everyone in it rise up in one fit of rage and kill them.

No matter what we say it will upset someone, it will either get used as fodder for mocking by people who want to deny even the possibility that God could be real, or the other side will seize it as ammunition against the infidels.

Which is a greater mystery to me than your question, I mean why should either side care in the first place?

You would think being so certain in their knowledge of what is and is not real would be enough for them both?

It's the same with people who say they have the truth and that they know God, then turn around and defend Him and their beliefs for no apparent reason?

You would think the fact that God knows their heart would be enough, I mean if they are with Him, He is with them?

How can you not be content with God?

What's the point of that?

If what they believe is indeed the truth, and it is God they know, what does God need them to defend?

God is perfectly capable of defending Himself?

Why does what someone else thinks, matter at all anyway?

Or on the otherwise the atheist and non believers are certain that God is a fairy tell, but they get all upset if you suggest God provides anyone who wants it with all the evidence they need, and He demands you prove all things concerning Him.

It's like people can't be wrong anymore, or they just don't want to know another thing, they've discovered all their truth they need whether they say they are a believer or none believer and nothing else matters?

it's called logic guys. I recommend taking a logic and critical course in college.


Presime: God is never wrong.

conclusion:If you follow god, you can never be wrong.


Question. If you know God never does wrong. and you follow him by the book. can you do wrong? no.


therefore, if you do everything God tells you to do. Christianity, for example. you know you are doing the right thing. And could never be wrong.

see how simple it is?

Originally posted by jedimiller
it's called logic guys. I recommend taking a logic and critical course in college.


Presime: God is never wrong.

conclusion:If you follow god, you can never be wrong.


Question. If you know God never does wrong. and you follow him by the book. can you do wrong? no.


therefore, if you do everything God tells you to do. Christianity, for example. you know you are doing the right thing. And could never be wrong.

see how simple it is?

I recommend you having a logical sudden change of thought, because you are definately on the road to a powertrip made of pure illusion. I concern myself with the present, and as far i can tell, man has made god talk, it's easy to justify your actions with this "all powerfull all knowing god" if you pretend your having a certain friendship with him/she/it. It's as easy comparing to a a ventriloquist believing what his own puppet says, way to go buddy. If i'm to follow god, i might aswell follow mankind's corrupt will.
Bible written by man, religion made by man, just what is this god to you? You ever hear him talk? Made you follow his actions for a just cause? Or was it your imagination convincing you it was him?

For all the arrogant, self-elevated, stubborn, blind and whatchamacallit religions, i'm a person who'se life is based on logical and well-thought-out actions instead of following a religion endorsing a book made by man, written thousands of years ago in which almost everyone had a certain superstition or occult belief. If i'm to be punished for living a balanced life, so be it, i'd rather be away from a being full of hypocrisy and impulsiveness and who sets very specific guidelines for you to enter heaven, personally, i think if you've lived a life without hurting anyone and being an all-round friendly person, you should be rewarded for that...

As for your statement that you can never be wrong if you follow god, wrong, even the most hardcore believer (especially) has some extreme sides to his character that twists his thoughts and actions, and in the end, making the person the opposite of what the best side of religion preaches, ignoring what he wants to ignore and accepting what he wants to accept, narrow minded in short. I've seen enough of them, sadly. Nobody is perfect, no matter what you do, you're still going to make mistakes along the road, unless your so called 'god' "says" your right...

As far as i know, a person truly believes his action are justified if he uses one of the most influential things in the history of mankind, a god... Unseen, unheard, a being which you cant proof or unproof and the perfect excuse. What your god is to you may well be the devil to another. So what is right and wrong? I think your sense of clean, fresh morality may be best suited for that, and best of all, a clear healthy conscience. Dont steal, respect and love others if the situation is just, help when you can, all-in-all, the basic backbone of any successfull happy society. It's so logical that anyone who thinks right doesn't need a book to state the obvious. As for what happens in the afterlife, that is a most personal choice, and can end in debates without end.

No disrespect to god, oh all knowing one, whichever one that is.

Because religions and other dogmas limit the scope of the mind by threatening pain and misery if you stray. If they were to admit that they may not have all the answers, a good percentage of the flock would stray to another religion that did claim to have all the answers.