God's Warriors??

reply to post by forestlady


i'm was sure that there was one... i don't know why it's rarely enforced, but it's supposed to be there....

granted, the ultimate in thread proselytizing is stickied by a mod...

Originally posted by forestlady
Does anyone know if there's a T & C against proselytizing? I thought there was, but I could be wrong.

I dont think there is. If there were, many threads in this forum would be locked and many members banned or warned constantly.

So then when this Rapture happens what is to become of followers of Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, Paganism, Satanism, and the list of other religions that don't believe in Jesus Christ as there Deity? And what about there Gods, wouldnt they save them from being casted away? Maybe im wrong but isnt Christianity Pretty much saying that Jesus is the only right God pretty much the God of all Gods?

Originally posted by forestlady
Does anyone know if there's a T & C against proselytizing? I thought there was, but I could be wrong.

I'm not trying to convert anyone here. The question was asked to me by another member as to why people try and force or convert other people into their belief or religion, so I answered. This is a discussion board right? This is a place where members share facts, beliefs, opinions, thoughts, religion etc....and that's exactly what I'm doing.

Anyway, back to the topic.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
there have been people who have "scoffed and mocked" religious ideas for quite a while now
remember good ol' mark twain? he was an atheist... hell, we've had em since ancient greece.

You're scoffing and mocking by making such a statement. The beginning of the end came when Yahshua ascended into Heaven and began unleashing the horses and their riders. And now the 'birth pangs' so to speak are increasing.

You are also gnashing your teeth and if you continue it's a 100% guarantee that you will be weeping, when you see The Son of man returning in the clouds.

that's a very arrogant statement to make

If you say so. Truth sometimes does come across that way. I'm not trying to be arrogant, just bold and honest, there isn't time to tickle anyones ears anymore.

fox has hatred, anger, and bitterness? seriously?

Seriously.

The thing is; people hate. Hate is all around. There are reasons why people hate and then there are no reasons. They simply hate to hate. I don't think I need to give you explaination as to why it is wrong to hate a "group" because of their beliefs, color, race, gender etc.

For example; I don't agree with some because of their particular belief and yet they are some of my closest friends whom I love and pray for and I'll never stop praying for those people. Why? Because I care and love them and forgive them for not knowing the truth. Yahweh says "My people perish for lack of knowledge" His knowledge. It's obvious there is no lack of Satans or mans knowledge but that knowledge is like living on candy bars and soda only, it taste good for a while then it begins to malnourish and rot your body.

reply to post by Elisha4Yah


Here is a summary of what you have said in this thread......

We should "bow down" and pray for the non-believer and talk to that person about salvation, ESPECIALLY in these final seconds before He returns.

I will put you on my prayer list You would have kept yourself silent had you really not wanted to be prayed for.

it is my duty to be His hands, feet, voice, eyes and ears while He's away. He teaches us to go and preach the good news to all creatures

there will be noone to point your finger at when you are standing before the Lamb weeping because "you didn't know" when in fact as you state, "everyone has heard" and now your words are even recorded and witnessed that "you have heard, many times" and yet still you won't repent.

I will preach truth and love and good news

If proselytizing = preaching you are guilty as charged!

We live in a secular society and should have the right to reasonably expect that we can go through life with a belief system that fits our concept of spirituality unfettered by the belief systems of others.

It is often said of freedoms that your freedom to do 'x' ends when it infringes on my freedom from 'x'.

I dont need nor do I desire to be 'prayed for' or 'talked to about salvation'.

If a day ever came that i found myself 'standing before the lamb weeping', I fully accept the choices that I have made and the path that I have walked because I am a rational, thinking, fully human being, who is divine in my own right.

Lets flip the tables around and show you why it is not desired

Lets pretend for a minute that I happen to be homosexual, and that I believe strongly in a homosexual god who only condones hetrosexual sex for procreation. Every single day, myself and others like me pray to our god and list YOU as one of the people who we want to 'see the light'and 'be converted' - we pray fervently that your heart will be softened and you will discover that the true way is in accepting that your savior is gay and that the only way into your paradise of an afterlife is thru your acceptance of your 'true nature'. We have television networks dedicated to expanding our beliefs. We are on the street corners yelling at you to repent. You hear it day and night.

Would that not make you want to tell all those people to SHUT UP and let you live your life based on the becisions that you make for yourself, not the decisions that others want to make FOR you? Wouldn't it bother you on a spiritual level that people are praying everyday that you would become homosexual? Would you want the weight of those prayers on your soul?

Keep your prayers and your preaching to yourself. We dont need or want it.

reply to post by pavlovsdog


pavlovsdog, if the catagory or topic were 'homosexuality conspiracies' then I wouldn't read it 'hypothetically speaking' of course. For example:I have no desire or curiosity to read or discuss aliens so I simply 'don't go there' if I did I'd only be proving to others the opposite and probably only provoke them. If you want to bash christianity than there ought to be a place for that. But if it is a discussion regarding something I believe I am furnished with knowledge of then I'll furnish what I know- and that's not always to say I'm right, I'm ever learning each day of my life.

So if you dislike this type of discussion so much, then tell me why you come here? You know you will be faced with many believers who will defend our beliefs whenever and wherever possible, so if that means preaching, teaching and praying or whatever comes up, then so be it. If you don't like the answer you might receive, don't ask the question with the intent to provoke. That's common ground for all people, races, tongues and tribes.

See, AshleyD, this is the sort of "prophecy" I'm talking about.

II PETER 3:3 - Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts, and saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation."

Now I'm not so certain about the two guys leaning on this quote., but I know YOU're pretty sharp. I know you're able to take a step back and recognize this statement for what it actually is.

"I am teaching you a weird, freaky new religion. The fact that some people will go 'well that's just dumb' just means that everything I'm telling you is correct!" It's basic cult indoctrination. Scientologists do the same thing. Jim Jones did it. David Koresh built his entire "congregation" around II Peter 3:3. The entire point is to alienate your cult from their friends and families who might be trying to pull them out, by making them "part of the problem" while simultaneously convincing your flock that they are the heirs to secret powerful knowledge, and that, by giving a prediction that a retarded monkey could make, you are a prophet of god.

"People will mock you" ain't that fantastic of a prophecy. It's pretty much common knowledge that if your religion revolves around ignoring the teachings of its main figure, instead choosing to revere his torture and murder, with the belief that it gives you a free ride to reward, no matter what crazy screwed-up things you do, so long as you apologize to his corpse, well... people are going to laugh at you.

I understand LOTS about prophecy. Ancient and modern. Most of it is junk, including most biblical prophecy. Here's one to think about.

Ezekiel 14:9 - And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.

So hey. wasn't this Jesus fellow destroyed by a divine plan that culminated in the poor guy being tortured and executed by his own people in Israel?

Originally posted by Elisha4Yah
reply to post by pavlovsdog

 

pavlovsdog, if the catagory or topic were 'homosexuality conspiracies' then I wouldn't read it 'hypothetically speaking'

What I was trying to illustrate here is that for non christians - we cant do much of anything without hearing you folks preaching. Every media source is innundated with the babble. Thats the situation I wanted you to put yourself in.

f you want to bash christianity than there ought to be a place for that.

I'm not bashing. I simply pointed out your preaching, which you were denying.

So if you dislike this type of discussion so much, then tell me why you come here?

I in fact enjoy religous debate and discussions of a spiritual matter. We should be able to have those discussions without you telling us that we will 'weep in front of the lamb' (a threat) or that you are going to pray for us (an attempt to psychically impose your will). As I attempted to show in my last post, you certainly wouldnt like it if you were forced to experience the same thing.

I am not anti Christian or pro pagan. I am however in conflict with the Evangelical intrepretation of 'The Great Commission", the "Council of Nicea" and the fundamental changes that it made, and the Rapture.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


It wasn't just about some not accepting our beliefs. It was warning us that many would be killed for following Him. Indeed they were and still are in the East. Not exactly what you want to tell people when you're starting a new religion. He also said the people who would do so would often claim to do it in the name of "God." Some believe this refers to the persecution of the first Christians by the Sanhedrin and Rome in the name of Jehovah or paganism, throughout the middle ages when true Christians were put to death as heretics by clergy who thought they were defending the faith, and Islam today who is wreaking havoc in the East in the name of Allah. Of course, it will get worse during the future tribulation.

As to the vagueness of prophecy. Have you gone back through and reread Matthew and Luke? After the "earthquakes, wars, and famines" warning, we can be left with a big resounding, "Duh, Jesus! Not even Nostradamus was that vague." Not quite.

The people of antiquity considered every little interruption of nature to be "the end." Earthquakes, wars, famine, disease, etc. were always seen as divine curses or that the world was ending. However, Jesus said, "When you see such things don't be alarmed [don't go into your 'it's the end of the world mode' like everyone else] such things must happen first but the end is still to come [read: These things will continue like they always have. These alone are not the signs of end. This will be typical. Relax]."

Then He talks about the 'birth pangs." No longer about just the signs of the age but "the sign of all signs" to look for. Again, it isn't quite clear in English but knowing Greek and the Hebrew idioms help. There will be wars and rumors of war but the one to look out for is the one where "nation will against nation and kingdom will rise against kingdom." When you see this, you will have "the sign."

Totally dull in English, right? But the idioms state when you see a war of (ethnos against ethnos [basically a war that is racially inspired against the Jews]) started by one Gentile nation that the others nations will join you will have the sign the birth pangs have begun. Some have interpreted this to be WWII which consisted of one gentile nation racially inspired against the Jews that eventually led to other nations joining. You might need to ask a Jewish scholar to explain this idiom and how it is explained in the Old Testament. It's pretty fascinating. Once you see this specific war, it now begins.

We know Israel was prophesied to be revived to the very year which it happened: 1948. This is in Ezekiel, Jeremiah, and Leviticus. It was no coincidence this happened after WWII. Then the recovery of Jerusalem to Israel in 1967. Not only that, Israel would be revived and immediately be surrounded by a coalition of enemies hostile to their reunification. The Bible lists the countries by name according to their historical titles that will eventually form this coalition but mention Jordan and Egypt as exceptions. All of these exist in the coalition except Turkey. This is expected to soon change. The pope himself told Turkey to give up on their E.U. application and join the A.U. instead. We also know Egypt and Jordan signed peace treaties with Israel fulfilling this exception. Then of course the formation of the European Union as prophesied. It's all coming together in rapid succession and, surprise, after the "sign of signs."

We are still however in the birth pangs. The "hard labor" will not take place until the tribulation. I could go on but that is the Reader's Digest version. Some prophecies certainly seem to be vague. We feel He might have told us people will be having children, there will be snow in the winter, and the sun will shine. Well whoop-de-doo. That is no help. But once we study what is really going on, things get exciting. Again, there are about 100 things supposed to coincide with this time that I won't explain here. But it is interesting to see all of these things culminating after "the sign of signs." Some have already been fulfilled, some are being fulfilled before our eyes, and some are clear that the table is set for them to be fulfilled. So, I'm keeping my eyes open.

Originally posted by AshleyD
[It wasn't just about some not accepting our beliefs. It was warning us that many would be killed for following Him. Indeed they were and still are in the East. Not exactly what you want to tell people when you're starting a new religion. He also said the people who would do so would often claim to do it in the name of "God." Some believe this refers to the persecution of the first Christians by the Sanhedrin and Rome in the name of Jehovah or paganism, throughout the middle ages when true Christians were put to death as heretics by clergy who thought they were defending the faith, and Islam today who is wreaking havoc in the East in the name of Allah. Of course, it will get worse during the future tribulation.

Islam is not "wreaking havoc" in the middle east. A certain few countries guided by apocalyptic Christianity are wreaking the havoc. In fact the numerous Christian enclaves through the middle and near east were doing just fine up until Christians in the other hemisphere decided Jesus was taking too damn long and decided to screw things up to try to make him come faster.

The worst enemies Christians have are other Christians. It's crazy how you feel the need to project your own sins onto other religions, especially considering the effortless absolvement of everything you do.

Then He talks about the 'birth pangs." No longer about just the signs of the age but "the sign of all signs" to look for. Again, it isn't quite clear in English but knowing Greek and the Hebrew idioms help. There will be wars and rumors of war but the one to look out for is the one where "nation will against nation and kingdom will rise against kingdom." When you see this, you will have "the sign."

Totally dull in English, right? But the idioms state when you see a war of (ethnos against ethnos [basically a war that is racially inspired against the Jews]) started by one Gentile nation that the others nations will join you will have the sign the birth pangs have begun. Some have interpreted this to be WWII which consisted of one gentile nation racially inspired against the Jews that eventually led to other nations joining. You might need to ask a Jewish scholar to explain this idiom and how it is explained in the Old Testament. It's pretty fascinating. Once you see this specific war, it now begins.

What I see is European Christians spending two thousand years trying to fulfill this prophecy by engaging on eternal war against the Jews in an effort to make the end times come faster, of which Hitler and Stalin were just the most recent versions.

We know Israel was prophesied to be revived to the very year which it happened: 1948. This is in Ezekiel, Jeremiah, and Leviticus. It was no coincidence this happened after WWII. Then the recovery of Jerusalem to Israel in 1967. Not only that, Israel would be revived and immediately be surrounded by a coalition of enemies hostile to their reunification. The Bible lists the countries by name according to their historical titles that will eventually form this coalition but mention Jordan and Egypt as exceptions. All of these exist in the coalition except Turkey. This is expected to soon change. The pope himself told Turkey to give up on their E.U. application and join the A.U. instead. We also know Egypt and Jordan signed peace treaties with Israel fulfilling this exception. Then of course the formation of the European Union as prophesied. It's all coming together in rapid succession and, surprise, after the "sign of signs."

Except Israel was formed by people who read the prophecies and said "hey, let's make this happen"

One could even make the case that Israel's creation is just the newest move by European Christians in an effort to make Jesus show up that much faster by killing lots of Jews. The entire history of the nation of Israel is a story of foreign powers inflaming the disputes, fanning fires, supporting crimes, and undermining peace attempts. American Christians WANT Israelis to die. By the droves. So you support any and every crazy middle eastern policy that has the net result of pissing people off at Israel and keeping there from ever being any sort of peace. I've read Revelations, myself. Jesus needs a pig pile of Jewish bodies to cushion his first step from heaven.

We are still however in the birth pangs. The "hard labor" will not take place until the tribulation. I could go on but that is the Reader's Digest version. Some prophecies certainly seem to be vague. We feel He might have told us people will be having children, there will be snow in the winter, and the sun will shine. Well whoop-de-doo. That is no help. But once we study what is really going on, things get exciting. Again, there are about 100 things supposed to coincide with this time that I won't explain here. But it is interesting to see all of these things culminating after "the sign of signs." Some have already been fulfilled, some are being fulfilled before our eyes, and some are clear that the table is set for them to be fulfilled. So, I'm keeping my eyes open.

Oh please, do explain. And can you do so in the original greek?

[edit on 26-1-2008 by TheWalkingFox]

[edit on 26-1-2008 by TheWalkingFox]

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
Islam is not "wreaking havoc" in the middle east.

Someone isn't keeping up with current events. Check out what Christianity and Christian churches are going through over there. Or in China and other Far East countries.

I predict you'll moan and groan at the source but it is interesting nonetheless: See Here. It's coming but nobody sees it.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
Except Israel was formed by people who read the prophecies and said "hey, let's make this happen"

Hey, I'm all for conspiracy theories but this is not very realistic. In fact, it's downright dense. If they were purposely trying to fulfill prophecy, I suspect they'd be doing a better job.

They won't allow the Jewish temple to be built anywhere in Israel (not necessarily even on the temple mount which would obviously start an all out war). The utensils and priests are ready to go and a location is open in Shiloh so what's the hold up? The international red tape by Europeans (trying so hard to fulfill prophecy?) not allowing it to happen. I also doubt the Muslims would be purposely fulfilling Biblical prophecy, which they are indeed doing.

Sounds like any sane person could see they are trying to prevent it from being fulfilled, even unwittingly. Anyone who claims otherwise has a few screws loose. They're doing the exact opposite for what needs to be done.

Oh please, do explain. And can you do so in the original greek?

See: HERE.

[edit on 1/26/2008 by AshleyD]

I guess you think it's O.K., walkingfox, to beat a muslim woman for showing skin.
Or burning someone alive with gasoline for converting to christianity in radical islamic countries (ie, saudi arabia or northern sudan)

I guess since it's illegal to preach christianity in saudi arabia
that would rule rule out christianity as the culprit.

Not to mention Indonesia where the girls got their heads cut off a few years ago.

[edit on 26-1-2008 by Clearskies]

reply to post by AshleyD


I'm fully aware. I wasn't denying the trouble they're facing. I'm simply telling you the root cause of it. And the root cause is the foreign policy of nations run by people who are obsessed with the End Times prophecies in the bible.

reply to post by Clearskies


I guess it's okay to rape a little boy? Or perhaps beat the hell out of a gay kid and string him up to die of exposure? Or to blow up a doctor's office? Shooting a Sikh in the face for wearing a turban's okay, too? How about beating your wife into the hospital?

That's your religion. Shall we continue?

reply to post by Clearskies


They don't know what's up, Clearskies. It's actually very sad. They think Christianity is the pits but apparently aren't aware of what the Islamic prophecies state what is in store for them. Separation of church and state will be a distant memory. They're in such a hurry to make Christianity obsolete without realizing what is supposed to happen next. The Mahdi. The one the president of Iran has already openly stated he is paving the way for. It's not going to be pretty. Christians annoy the unbeliever, of course. But wait until Islamic law is imposed world wide, Islamic religion, and their Mahdi controls it all. Scary indeed.

[edit on 1/26/2008 by AshleyD]

reply to post by AshleyD


Actually, if you'll recall, all three Abrahamic faiths are nuts by my reckoning, with Judaism being least so. The Mahdi will no more come out of Baghdad than Jesus will come out of the clouds, and the whole damn lot of you who are constantly looking for the end of the world are, well, off your damn rockers and a legitimate danger to the rest of us on this rock.

I'm not sure why you guys are so desperate for the world to end, but I'm pretty certain you're going to be disappointed for a long, long, LONG time.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


Hey! Isn't it against T&C rules to cuss at people?
Why, yes, it is;
"Don't call people names or otherwise insult them. Treat a discussion on ATS as though it were a face-to-face discussion with a group of people in person!"

Calm down.
WE (AshlyD and I) are not FOR the destruction of muslims and non-christians.
People who believe commiting wars will bring the kingdom of heaven on Earth are S-T-U-P-I-D.
But, I also think it's stupid to say the problem with the world is christianity and Jesus.

I was a real hater until I became a christian.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


We don't believe it is the end of the world. The "end times" is actually kind of a misnomer. What faith do you follow, exactly? I'm guessing either a pagan or Eastern philosophy? Not going to attack it. Just curious.