How "the law of attraction" works

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander

Ultimately, I am looking for a "missing link." No matter how good you, personally, are at this law, and regardless how many exceptional masters of this law there are, it isnt being conveyed meaningfully to the the greater whole of us. Well, there is a reason for that, and that is what I am trying to discern. "Telling the truth" and "telling the truth in a way that conveys precisely your meaning" are two VERY different things.

Well, yes. Unfortunately. Thats why I chose to persue it. Because it is far away from being widely known and even further away from being wideley applied.

Personally, I love using scales for a variety of purposes. Using a scale on "truth" I think there are different levels of "truth" and different type of teachings appropriate for different types of people. Some people who adress me professionally, I do not share the law-of-attraction with, because its way out of reach.

What generally happens, in practice, is the speaker keeps insisting on using the word/meaning package that is familiar to THEM, that makes sense to them, louder and more repetitively, hoping the listener will magically understand at some point. Think of someone talking louder and slower in English to a Spanish speaker. You see it all the time. Problem is, it is pointless.

*sigh*....very true.

It cannot be a simple answer, so I apologize. Why I think you do not stress the "positive" results.From your writing style I would phrase the answer for YOU along lines of, "Because paying attention to the positive result is a focus on the external. It takes you outside yourself."

Yes. So actually you have understood the law-of-attraction perfectly, without there being any "missing link".

Problems and Challenges coming up are not indicative of there being a "missing link", as such problems are part of the whole process of duality/contrast/growth. The very label of a problem as such misses the usefulness of it.

Its a life-enhancing practice to neither exaggerate the importance of the negative nor the positive. A shaman gets a lottery win? He tosses the paper aside with the words "thats nice", but continues the meditation he was doing before the postman brought the good news.

What I have found to be most unpleasant in the short run has often turned out to be the greatest of of blessings in the long run. My judgment historically of "good/bad" has been fatally flawed.

Exactly. Which is why shamanic-types give neither too much credence.

Nice posts you write there Illusionsaregrander.

[edit on 30-4-2008 by Skyfloating]

reply to post by Skyfloating


Thank you! It is so refreshing to see / read something real for a change! Don't get me wrong there is a lot of great things on ATS but so much nonsense as well.
It is so simple that people won't believe it. They want it to be harder.
I guess that's their choice? I have tried to explain it but people but they just keep searching for what they already own. If you could give me some tips about how to manifest me being thinner. I have a serious weight issue I have been trying to conquer for 8 years now. I eat organic, minimum sugars and flour. I must be thinking backwards about what I want to be? Please, any suggestions on this?
Thanks

reply to post by Skyfloating


What I am asking isnt about OPP. I am not trying to solve any of my friends problem, nor even my own.

I am using those situations to see the movement of law, to see the law in action so I can describe it. Where it fails is important. Where it succeeds is important. But what I am asking isnt personal. I dont care who the example is.

You say something to the effect of; "People are looking for one quick fix, one fixed solution.....it just doesnt exist."

(Sorry for the paraphrase, and I know it isnt spot on)

And I do agree, that there is no fixed solution that can be applied to all individual situations. HOWEVER; if the Law of Attraction IS a Law, it is describable as an equation.

Many of the authors regarding the "Law of attraction" use comparisons to physics, and natural laws. They cry this to the world, and use it to substantiate their work. They look directly into the camera and with a knowing smile say "and if you follow this Law, it works every single time."

Ok, fine. I personally happen to agree. It likely IS a "Law" on par with the laws of physics. So where is the equation? Where is the description of this law as a formula? Its "proof" so to speak?

Well, the answer to that is, it hasnt been written. It hasnt been isolated out.

Now understand, that what you alluded to is correct. There isnt a "fixed" solution that applies to all circumstances. But that is not what a "proof" does. That is not what I am looking for, "one quick fix for all people." I am looking for the principle, the formula into which "individual circumstances" can be plugged as variables, (thus making each instance of the formula unique) with the result being predictable.

A "law" should be describable in this way. Period. If it isnt, then "Law" is a misnomer.

Why hasnt it been written? Many spiritual people are not scientists. Many scientists are not spiritual people. Being able to DO a thing does not mean you can describe what you do. Being able to describe a thing does not mean you can do it. If the latter is the case, getting a "doer" to just do it and stop trying to control the experiment can be a problem. Lol.

Example? Ask the worlds best pitcher to write as a formula what happens when he pitches a strike. He cant. He can pitch them, and he is truly a master at "Doing" but he cannot, as a formula, say what precisely he just did. Or, conversely, ask a physicist to pitch a perfect strike. He cant, but he can write the formula for a perfect strike.

Why do we care about formulas? Isnt being able to pitch enough?

Well, yes and no. It is great for the pitcher that he can "do it." But once you know the formula, it can be used to do greater things, or, it can be used to analyze "bad pitchers" and help them pitch better.

Consider, many of the elements of "throwing a baseball" are the same as those we, (after we derived the formula) have used to develop space flight. If no one ever sat down, and began the process of analyzing, what thrust, (energy) is needed to overcome what force, (gravity, resistance from air) correcting for what (wind) over what distance, we would still be Earthbound.
Each individual "flight" IS different, but the underlying formula remains. The variables change.

So, I hope that clarifies my intent a bit.

reply to post by setauket


Yes. First arrive at a point where you dont give rats ass about your weight anymore and do not try to "loose it" anymore. Zero attention. Zero importance. You feel worthy no matter what your weight is. It may take a few weeks to re-adjust to that since you`ve been going like this for 8 years. Once you have the impression that the issue is not all that important anymore, imagine yourself with the weight you like and imagine yourself enjoying water and movement (for example on a trampoline) a lot every night before falling asleep and every morning when waking up for 5 days in a row. (Later, if you feel like it, you can actually go moving your body...but thats not the first care...the first care is feeling your ideal weight). Issue fixed.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
Now understand, that what you alluded to is correct. There isnt a "fixed" solution that applies to all circumstances. But that is not what a "proof" does. That is not what I am looking for, "one quick fix for all people." I am looking for the principle, the formula into which "individual circumstances" can be plugged as variables, (thus making each instance of the formula unique) with the result being predictable.

Alright. However, in this field of practice, "proof" is best created by results and not by analysis of the background workings.

The typical saying is "Effectiveness is the measure of truth" and also "Whatever you say is right. If you say this doesnt work, then you are right. If you say it works, then you are right".

Thats the whole "problem" with it, if you will. Its not testible or even easy to grasp with the intellect.

The basic idea that "belief creates reality" implies that you can make any formula work or not-work by your means of adding attention/belief to it.

So, someone may write a new-agey type book that is utterly stupid and wrong, but if some naive reader believes it works...it will.

So the essential and basic formula could be reduced to "attention + belief makes something real".

Example? Ask the worlds best pitcher to write as a formula what happens when he pitches a strike. He cant. He can pitch them, and he is truly a master at "Doing" but he cannot, as a formula, say what precisely he just did. Or, conversely, ask a physicist to pitch a perfect strike. He cant, but he can write the formula for a perfect strike.

LOL. And here you are asking me (a pitcher of LOA) what exactly Im doing. And just like the pitcher I dont really have a clue what I am doing. I just repeated the moves so often, they are automatic.

Why do we care about formulas? Isnt being able to pitch enough?

Well, yes and no. It is great for the pitcher that he can "do it." But once you know the formula, it can be used to do greater things, or, it can be used to analyze "bad pitchers" and help them pitch better.

Yes. And there are many different ways of pitching. And many good pitchers and many poor pitchers. Pitch for awhile. You´ll have plenty of bad balls, and some good.

Consider, many of the elements of "throwing a baseball" are the same as those we, (after we derived the formula) have used to develop space flight. If no one ever sat down, and began the process of analyzing, what thrust, (energy) is needed to overcome what force, (gravity, resistance from air) correcting for what (wind) over what distance, we would still be Earthbound.
Each individual "flight" IS different, but the underlying formula remains. The variables change.

So, I hope that clarifies my intent a bit.

Yes, your intent is clear as crystal. Why are some bad pitchers and some good pitchers? Because some are not interested in pitching. Others are interested, but they dont pitch much. Some pitch a lot, but they never pitch in a team or a game situation. Some pitch a lot but have never had anyone show them technique.

Your analogy works well to explain everything.

However, there is one aspect of reality creating that is native from birth and neednt be learned. This aspect is your ability to place attention somewhere and remove it from somewhere. Attention can take the form of talking, thinking, doing, feeling, touching, seeing, hearing. "Reality creating" is the art of doing some of this deliberately. How simple is that for a formula?

double post.

[edit on 30-4-2008 by Skyfloating]

Hey been popping in pretty regular. Had to check in here as well.

This one is a tough one when people are exploring without doing. In the doing one learns little bits more in a steady progression. There is not one law per se but a nest of laws upon closer examination. the nest can still be just one if that is all one chooses to see, and it still works and it is good. For most this is best. For some it is not enough.

Then He said to them: "Therefore every teacher of the Law, who has been instructed about the Kingdom of Heaven, is like the owner of a house, who brings out of his store room new treasures as well as old."

You must do what ever it is you lead yourself to do. Just listen to your heart and it will never be wrong.


Think of it this way. Many people go to the beach in Hawaii. Most splash around in the surf at the edge. Salt water stinging their eyes. Some desire to see into the water, and put on a mask and snorkel and they can see and explore things the splashers can not. They go out a bit deeper and then it is too deep to see well, and they return to shallower water. They exist in a world all of the splashers will never know, experiencing the things they never will. They need only put on the mask and fins but for one reason or another they do not. Still others are diving shallower and diving deeper, and they see more there. The decide they need a tank and a light to explore the things that they need to explore so they do and disappear from the surface into the deep. The snorkelers watch from above as they depart into the depths and out of sight. These types are even fewer. The risks and fears of giant creatures attacking, and the fear of the unknown build a great stone wall that does not exist. A tiny few others enter the diving bell to see and know what has never been known before. To see what the divers with tanks will never see. To know all that the one being can know, even though he will never know all.

As in the physical, so in the spiritual.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Alright. However, in this field of practice, "proof" is best created by results and not by analysis of the background workings.

The typical saying is "Effectiveness is the measure of truth" and also "Whatever you say is right. If you say this doesnt work, then you are right. If you say it works, then you are right".

Thats the whole "problem" with it, if you will. Its not testible or even easy to grasp with the intellect.

When done in a controlled manner we need to always assume that the test will yield positive results unless the test was designed to find a weakness in which case it does.

We need to go back to the example of the little brown jugs. All of the work that was not specified was left up to the LOA and it was chillingly accurate.

Better yet lets go to the car parks. (parking spaces for us redneck types). Your intention must be in force, but a small notebook where a page can be marked and then folded over so a blank page is always up, is the key to proof. When a good park does not come up, an honest assessment of the 'power chi' ,as my wife calls it, is in order and will almost always reveal a negative attitude or energy flow in place at the time of the miss. This assessment is included on any miss pages. Otherwise mark the page with a check mark. Count them when the notepad is filled.


A great man said that the LOA works every time without fail, if you will it or not. You will get what you get by design or default. Choose to design and not accept the default.

reply to post by Illahee


Thats a great analogy there with the deep waters. I can relate to it because I love diving.

It also reminds me of using more story/metaphor/analogy when talking about these concepts. Stuff like that sticks to the memory.

Thank you, both Skyfloating and Illahee. And good to see you Illahee. I had been away from the thread for a while, letting the things I have been considering "simmer," and when I saw your post I was hoping you would not be gone too long.

Hidden variables. What they tend to do is make an outcome that should be predictable, less so. Thats what I think happens with the Law of Attraction. I do not believe anything is "wrong" with whats being said by the better teachers. I just sense that there is a hidden variable. I think the best practitioners DO it, but they do it without knowing that they are doing it. I think "crappy" practitioners can include this variable sometimes, almost accidently, but again, it is without awareness. Even a horrible pitcher will sometimes pitch a strike.

My intuition tells me it is there. It isnt a fleeting intuition, I have set this issue down many times, to let it rest, and (honestly) in hopes that it will just leave me alone. Lol. But it wont leave me alone. It is a constant nagging in the back of my mind that, "It is there, just look." So I look, and look some more, and I enlist the aid of others in the looking. Granted, it IS going to be difficult to sort this, and I may not "succeed." (If success means that I, personally, find it) But, even if I only get close to it, and someone lifetimes later finds it, or, I get close to it and someone else in this lifetime completes it, or I fail completely and someone later avoids my error, what does it matter? (Back to the whole Oneness issue.) If something nags you and will not let you go, how can you turn away from it? Wouldnt that in itself be a violation of the flow? I might "rest it" now and again, but as long as it nags me I will keep looking.

I dont just think, I believe, I KNOW this law can be described more completely. Everything is impossible until someone does it, right? And I believe that if we could locate that hidden variable, (or variables) we could obtain the predictable results the word LAW demands. Even the smallest refinement would be a worthy end, in my opinion.

Anyway, thank you for your help. I am sure this will come up again at some point.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
reply to post by Skyfloating

 

Skyfloating, I know that what you said is "right" or correct, but I think that some things may be so obvious to you that you overlook the difficulty that might pose for others.

I think many people do not KNOW, (consciously in any event,) what their hearts/souls desire is. And what they think it is, is often pretty far from the mark, and so they pursue the means to pursue their hearts/souls desire, hoping that once they have that, what they truly desire will become apparent. (Ie: The freedom from "necessity" to do that which we do NOT want that we associate rightly or wrongly with having financial freedom, or lots of money.)

I read and reread the most recent posts and I feel compelled to respond to this. I think IllusionsAreGrander has hit he nail on the head right here. Lots of people have no idea what happiness feels like. But how many even know what would really make them happy? I have fallen asleep the last few nights trying to answer the lottery question and I still don't have a vocation in mind lol.

I can say that I just turned 24 and 23 was the best year of my life. I have never been happier than I was that year, but i know that on a 1-10 I was probably only at about a 6. The sad thing is this was really awesome for me, haha! But things keep improving and for that I am very grateful. But what I'm most grateful for is that I know things will most definitely improve until I'm at a 10 out of 10. What is so mind boggling is that I have no earthly idea what a 10 out of 10 could even feel like. I would consider myself of average disposition so I think most people don't really live their lives above a 7 out of 10 on the happiness scale.

We as a society really are so conditioned that we will probably have to work a job we hate and that happiness only stops by from friday afternoon to sunday night. Even if you don't subscribe to this idea, you probably still think of life in terms of what you are forced to do to achieve happiness in your downtime instead of thinking of life as one big stretch of happiness. It really is a subject that requires much thought to come to terms with because it seems so unlikely that life would be more positive than negative or neutral.

So I've really been giving a lot of thought to what does and would make me happy, but my question is how do I know I've got it? Don't say it's like when you're in love and you just know! Is it more of a subdued cheerfulness and surefooted security or is it more of an excited expectation? Which is the more clear marker for what the soul really wants?

reply to post by sc2099


Its funny you mention happiness. I am currently reading a hilarious book called "The Geography of Bliss"...

...where this rather unhappy guy sets out to visit all of the countries which are claimed by scientists to be the happiest...The Netherlands, Switzerland, India, etc.

Within the book he keeps trying to define happiness...

...and he ultimately comes to the same conclusions as you: That most people are not "10s".

But there is a very revealing scientific study tucked away in the first chapter (I just started reading yesterday):

They found out that the more evolutionarily developed certain parts of the body/brain are (such as the frontal lobes), the more happy they are. Science therefore concludes that evolutionary-development is leading us toward more happiness.

What also surprised me is that they have measured these parts of the body and brain to grow when subjects are looking at beautiful pictures (focussing attention on the positive).

Another mention in the book is that some scientists are unhappy with the fact that many sciences are too negative. Freud (on him we base our entire mentale health system) is quoted to say that happiness is for fools.

What surprises the author the most is how many people say are relatively happy despite mass-medias focus on the negative.

Just wanted to share those bits I read yesterday.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander

Hidden variables. What they tend to do is make an outcome that should be predictable, less so. Thats what I think happens with the Law of Attraction. I do not believe anything is "wrong" with whats being said by the better teachers. I just sense that there is a hidden variable. I think the best practitioners DO it, but they do it without knowing that they are doing it. I think "crappy" practitioners can include this variable sometimes, almost accidently, but again, it is without awareness. Even a horrible pitcher will sometimes pitch a strike.

Sometimes the answer is much simpler than any would suspect. There is a hidden and secret variable. It affects every attempt and every work. It has been known for thousands of years and been taught for about half that time. The missing key to the puzzle is so simple people would never look there and it is the deciding factor.

The Nazarene said it clearly but people try to hunt and peck for the missing pieces within the text and it is not there.


"Your belief has made you whole"

One word. Suspend all that is known to you and live like a little child. Keep your mind clear as the little child. This is tough and it won't come easy. He was teaching the state of mind to allow the results of belief to begin motion on the physical plane. The greatest of the Christian Mysteries are in plain sight and always have been. I too thought the bones of Elias, the holy relics, the secret interpretation of text., etc. It was all wrong, I had to make my mind as the little child and then it was like a projector coming in to focus, everything was clear. Nothing is hidden, except in plain sight where no one would look and human ego would keep all from knowing the truth. You must kill yourself to be born again. The ego must die and a different being built from the lesson of the child.

That is your answer and you must accept it or be forever troubled.

reply to post by sc2099


Student: Master, master, what is they way to happiness?

Master: Their is no way to happiness. Happiness is the way.


Old and corny but the bottom line in all cases. Being happy with what you have is far more important than a quest for happiness that can never end.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

What also surprised me is that they have measured these parts of the body and brain to grow when subjects are looking at beautiful pictures (focussing attention on the positive).

Funny you should mention this, and the post by SC2099 also relates to what I woke up thinking about this morning.

What if, one of "hidden variables" is that; what if what appears to be "creation" isnt actually "discovery?"

Understand that I am not totally eliminating the individual creative aspect, but rather mitigating it somewhat. What if the individual creative power only maximizes after the individual FIRST aligns with the collective creative urge?

This would then mean that rather than "creating your reality" wholly independently, which is somewhat suspect in light of the Oneness question, you are actually "discerning your function" within the One, the collective, and once that is accomplished you then tap into the collective will, or flow of energy, and while performing within that role you are imbued with not only your own creative power, but also the creative power of the whole, which then produces "success."

It occurred to me in part, because what seems to happen for those who manifest most powerfully is NOT that they "align their thoughts, energy, attention" behind what they WANT, or desire, but rather when they align their thoughts, energy and attention behind what they are created to do best. Obviously, aligning with what you are best suited for is NOT in itself a creative act, but a submissive one.

People have been "brushing up against" this need to "let go" and "know thyself" and "coming in conflict with the will of others," and here would be an example of a part of the equation that is described incompletely.

Obviously, you can sell more books by emphasizing that "you can have whatever you want" and showing pictures of people imagining themselves in cars, with "hot babes" etc. And for some of the practitioners, they may really believe this is what they did. What if they didnt? What if, all along, it was discovery that what made them happy and successful was nothing more than aligning themselves with what some call the "Divine Will?"

Obviously, those who focus on what they "want" and throwing power and energy and attention behind that, would not succeed IF that is not in fact what the advanced practitioners are actually doing. It would also begin to explain the difficulty in discerning "what we want," and also the rather common discovery by many that getting what they WANT does not bring them happiness.

In the example you provide, Skyfloating, this area of the brain grows not when they look at something "ugly" and will it to be beautiful. But rather when they look at something already beautiful.

In many of the religious or spiritual traditions, this "submission to" or "alignment with" or "discernment of" is alluded to. Most obviously in the Tao de Ching. Success in the Tao de Ching comes not from bulldozing "What IS" with your energy, will, or creative force, but by an act of CO-creation in which your individual will is continually aligned to the greater collective movements of the Tao. Ultimately, it is an act of discernment first, then submission to, rather than the pure "creation" as described in many of the books.

Just some of the first wave of results from the little experiment we conducted.

Originally posted by Illahee
reply to post by sc2099

 

Student: Master, master, what is they way to happiness?

Master: Their is no way to happiness. Happiness is the way.

This would also tie in precisely if the "law of attraction" were actually "the law of discernment."

A very common scientific "problem" is the human predisposition to assume that correlation equals causation. Time and again, we are reminded, often after spending years going down the wrong road, that this is not so.

In keeping with your offering here, and what I have been considering since the last post I wrote is;

What if we have correlation and causation confused when it comes to the positive/negative emotion issue?

The law of Attraction seems to say that our negative beliefs and negative emotions CREATE blocks, problems, etc. And it seems to say that to create what we want, positive emotion must be used.

What if that is just mistaken? What if, rather than the creative element, our emotions are like a measuring device that alert us to our realtive distance from or nearness to, that which IS in our best interests? Our "destination" in terms of a life that is successful and satisfying?

Like a Geiger counter, that clicks louder as you get closer to the radioactive source, perhaps happiness operates along the same principle. (And misery for that matter.) Perhaps the more unhappy you feel or the more negative you feel is just an indication how far away you are from "the path that is for you." You arent "creating" a block by "feeling negative" you are feeling "negative" because you are moving towards a block.

Conversely, your happiness/love/peace etc., is not "creating" outcomes, but rather guiding you to them, or indicating that you are in the proper alignment in that moment. Again, this is not a creative act of manifestation, but a submissive act, of allowing oneself to be guided towards success and peace by the higher Self, the One.

In that case, then Happiness IS the way, there is no way through negativity to happiness, as that saying you posted indicates. And with this path, you neednt "know" what you "want," ( what your ultimate destination is) for you to find success, you need only know, in the moment, "what direction of movement feels better?" A much more doable thing.

Also, like the sciences attempt to create a unified theory of everything, this is more consistent with the other "spiritual truths." Which would be important for a proof.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander


What if we have correlation and causation confused when it comes to the positive/negative emotion issue?

The law of Attraction seems to say that our negative beliefs and negative emotions CREATE blocks, problems, etc. And it seems to say that to create what we want, positive emotion must be used.

People create terrible nightmarish, and very evil things. This is never discussed by any professional teacher of LOA, and yet it happens. They do it both by default and by intention. I have been advised several times, to restrict what I divulge to an open forum, and I certainly will honor that. I can not elaborate more here.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
What if that is just mistaken? What if, rather than the creative element, our emotions are like a measuring device that alert us to our realtive distance from or nearness to, that which IS in our best interests? Our "destination" in terms of a life that is successful and satisfying?

Like a Geiger counter, that clicks louder as you get closer to the radioactive source, perhaps happiness operates along the same principle. (And misery for that matter.) Perhaps the more unhappy you feel or the more negative you feel is just an indication how far away you are from "the path that is for you." You arent "creating" a block by "feeling negative" you are feeling "negative" because you are moving towards a block.

Conversely, your happiness/love/peace etc., is not "creating" outcomes, but rather guiding you to them, or indicating that you are in the proper alignment in that moment. Again, this is not a creative act of manifestation, but a submissive act, of allowing oneself to be guided towards success and peace by the higher Self, the One.

I think I would like to avoid responding to this and perhaps hear SkyFloating respond. There are many thoughts I do not have words for, so I need to defer to a more articulate source.

There are laws but also realities that merge blend and get confused here. To me there is no block. You are either going one direction or another and where thought goes energy flows behind it. From negativity the lightbulb is still going to light but you have flipped the battery so to speak. You can not enter that negative state without your thoughts being in it and now you are creating from that state, change your mind in an instant and some of that negative creation can still show up for a while.

The last part is only relative when you shift time. An entirely different topic, but time shifts to gain a favorable alignment is not the most reliable occult science going. I would relate it to a beater car that runs fine sometimes, but you would call a cab if your wife was delivering a baby.....

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander

In that case, then Happiness IS the way, there is no way through negativity to happiness, as that saying you posted indicates. And with this path, you neednt "know" what you "want," ( what your ultimate destination is) for you to find success, you need only know, in the moment, "what direction of movement feels better?" A much more doable thing.

We decide every minute of every day exactly how we feel. If we choose to be happy we are if we chose anger, we are.

We can choose to be as the child and just be satisfied with being as the starting point and then frosting the cake the way it suits us from inside our hearts. This is a state of happiness. We create from that point out. If we don't choose to specifically create, we do it all by default, so it best to default from happiness. The laws are in motion, if we choose to believe them or use them we create through our individuality. If not we create by default.

I think many of the harder questions come up trying to blend the philosophy of the east with what has been distilled through centuries of work in the west. The ideas of the east and the oneness are anti Christos. That is to deny either the Creator allows Sonship, or at root that there were never and are not now lesser gods walking the earth. (For the old school ancient mystery folks) Now the root of oneness is the denial the soul has its own individuality and was, is and always will be. It is a denial of the immortal soul. Personal experience has placed me in a position that tells me there is an immortal soul in everyone that has developed it and not destroyed it. Where these teachings are taught there is no nirvana. They are lands with ongoing hunger, suffering, dis-ease, and lack of progression that has lasted for thousands of years. That is the reason I shy away from them myself. LOA is working in those places as well. Things are so bad we seek after, peace nirvana and oneness...... and its already too late. They put the thought in motion.

The beliefs work for those peoples that may never have other exposure but not for the rest that do. One of my friends is a Reiki master. In a discussion of the healing methods I pointed out that they were ill more than 50% of the time and the long term success rate of that type of healing had very poor results, and at times worse than no treatment. I made it very clear that I did not want to offend them or their beliefs, and honored the direction, but I could include no teaching that did not have higher than average results. This is the very least acceptable level. It must do consistently better than the norm or people should stay with the norm. I can't recommend something less or equal to the norm. People can get that anywhere. Only by finding, refining and offering better is their growth.

One thing I will say up front is;

I am not looking for the popular answer.

I am looking for the truth, (to the extent any human or group of humans can know it.)

There is no question in my mind that the "creative" version of the law, the law as stated now, would be more popular, sell more books, draw more "fans."

It already does.

It has often occurred to me that anyone, anywhere can be thought a "genius" by discerning what a large group of people WANT to hear and then stating it with authority and case building skills (sophistry.) Tons of threads on this site bear witness to that. Tons of posts bear witness to the fact that logic, data, evidence, etc., are secondary to "desire to believe" in many people. If monetary wealth meant more to me than "truth" (whatever that means to us) I certainly have a good enough grasp of human nature and writing to become a popular author. What interests me most, however, is truth. (whatever that means to us)

The problem as I see it is this; When the principles of the Law of Attraction are applied as they are now stated, they do not consistently yield the results we expect.

Now lots of "reasons" are given for this, "well you must have been thinking negative thoughts, etc., not focusing enough," whatever.

The nice thing, for the ones who insist this IS the Law, (the complete law without further refinement) is that it cannot be proven either way when the results even under the best of circumstances are so inconsistent. Like a "magic snake oil" salesman, who says, "my potion will cure you guaranteed if only you BELIEVE," any failure can then be blamed on the patient and their belief, not on the potion itself. "Well you didnt believe enough, or it would have worked." Tragically, millions, perhaps billions of dollars are spent on magic cures for cancer, overweight, unhappiness, etc., that just dont work. And could not work, as they are in violation of known laws. You could say that the few scientists who KNOW these are violations of known laws are somehow overriding the millions who believe otherwise, but really, is that consistent with the Law of Attraction formula? It doesnt seem to be when Advocates of the LoA are stating why you cant successfully "will" a lottery win. There, they seem to indicate "might makes right" or the sheer volume of will and belief overrides your individual will.

If belief, attention and energy are the formula for manifestation, where is Jesus? Why didnt the world end in the year 2000, etc., etc. Huge, vast numbers of people fervently believe, so the question is "Why arent we seeing the expected result?" (Mind you these are just examples, any one example could be chosen of a mass belief that failed to manifest, why isnt the world flat?) I know excuses can be made to cover for these apparent lapses, but, many of the examples of the Law working would also be undone by the same excuses used to explain its failures.

As I have said, I believe there IS a law at play here. And I feel that it is intertwined with the LoA principles, but I believe the LoA is incompletely or improperly stated somehow. I am not 100% certain that the latest thoughts I have had about why this may be are correct. However, I do feel that they are moving towards the answer. It just might not be the answer people want.

reply to post by Illahee


Just a brief and friendly dissent, Illahee, as I see it, the philosophy of the East is NOT anti-Christos. It is incompatible with the teachings of Paul. If you completely ignore Paul, and the revisions his belief system have wrought on the original gospels, (by going back to the earliest known versions of these gospels) the message of Jesus himself is NOT inconsistent with the message of the spiritual masters of the East.

Nor is it incompatible with the teachings of Plato, but it is with Aristotle.

A quote by another who questions Paul's interpretation of Christianity;

In Christ or Paul?, by Rev. V.A. Holmes-Gore:

"Let the reader contrast the true Christian standard with that of Paul and he will see the terrible betrayal of all that the Master taught. . . . For the surest way to betray a great Teacher is to misrepresent his message. . . . That is what Paul and his followers did, and because the Church has followed Paul in his error it has failed lamentably to redeem the world. . . . The teachings given by the blessed Master Christ, which the disciples John and Peter and James, the brother of the Master, tried in vain to defend and preserve intact were as utterly opposed to the Pauline Gospel as the light is opposed to the darkness."