Christian "Ex-Gay" Movement Grows, Brainwashing Thousands

The point is that in the Book of Genesis, the concept of homosexuality was known

No, it shows that homosexual behavior was known.

Big difference.

reply to post by GradyPhilpott


Thanks for the clarification.

Since I went pagan, I got a little rusty on the whole Biblical ethos.

Would then, this act of, I don't know, sacrifice?, would this act have been a true test of faith, if Lot thought he would be safe to offer up his daughters, knowing they would be refused by the man-loving Sodomites?

Of course, I'm sure you realize I didn't make the assertion concerning when homosexuality was first "known."

And I don't necessarily mean in the "Biblical sense" of "known," you know?

Personally, I believe there were probably gay dinosaurs.

And they probably loved each other just as much as any dinosaur could.

Although, I don't think there's anyone who would disagree with this assertion: nobody loved that purple bastard Barney.

And thanks for your posts, BTW.

[edit on 16-12-2007 by goosdawg]

Originally posted by IAF101
Actually I believe it is the other way around. Thousands of teenagers and young adolescents who are in fact normal heterosexuals have been brainwashed into believing that they are homosexuals because either they were unsuccessful with the opposite sex or were having other personality disorders. Also the social status that is projected of these people of being "suave and cool" and outside the system has misled thousands into believing that they are homosexuals, when they are not. Add to this the level of social norms and mores have been steadily decaying over the past few decades and any and all stigma attached to reckless and wanton debauchery has gone making homosexuality and bestiality more commonplace and even marketed.

People can understand this by the fact that in Western Nations the number of people homosexually oriented is steadily increasing year after year. These are not "natural" cases but converts or experimentalists.

Two points: First, Nobody becomes a homosexual because someone of the opposite sex rejects them. That's laughable to believe that.

Second, it's not that the number of homosexuals is increasing, its the number of them admitting to themselves who they are .



[edit on 16-12-2007 by jupiter869]

Well... since people have made repeated comparisons to the animal kingdom here, I guess I should post this just to balance it out a bit:

In Fruit Flies, Homosexuality Is Biological But Not Hard-wired, Study Shows

The implication being, while homosexuality may be natural and inherent, it's not the be all, end all some may think. At least in fruit flies, that is.

So, where do we go now?

Originally posted by goosdawg
Of course, I'm sure you realize I didn't make the assertion concerning when homosexuality was first "known."

I do realize that and even pagans should read the Bible.

It is in these ancient texts that the wisdom of the ages come down to us.

Problems arise when we forget that our ancestors were capable of abstract thought--perhaps more capable than many of us are today.

I admit, I didn't read all of the posts, even though there are only 2 and one half pages, so far.

ONE ATS member, posting on the first page, in my opinion, is violating the rules of this debate with vile and hateful rhetoric. But, in an open society, all opinions are welcome, and if relevant, should be given credence.

Title of this thread...sometimes we should take time and see what thread we are posting to. This isn't about sexuality, it is about power. It has been about the 'macho', a term only recently coined, but pertinent to this subject. The 'Powers' who wish to dictate have been around for a long time. It's part of the Human psyche to think in these ways...we evolved up to this point...and now it is time to use our intellect (God-Given, if you will...not my opinion, just offering it up) to rise above the nonsense and hyprocisy and bigotry that has dominated thinking for many generations.

Christianity is only about 2000 years old (OK, that's not to be sarcastic, just an observation...and NO, I am not Jewish!). But along that train of thought....Judaism does precede Christianity...but so does Buddhism and Hinduism and...well, just name any -ism!!

Believe what you want, just don't try to impose it on me. My, and anyone other's sex life is none of your damn business, thank you very much!!


[spelling]


[edit on 16-12-2007 by weedwhacker]

In American today ..sex/sexuality is used to sell just about everything and anything. Used to make people malliable, controllable, gauranteeable etc etc. Just go into any store and look at the fashion lines. The colours,styles, etc etc.

If you know anything about pagan doctrine or philosophy colours are important.

There is veiled sexuality all around us in the merchandizing and television/movies. The more sexual/malliable a people can be made the more controllable they can be made. Especially and particularly in a voting booth..or on a jury.

Young people and people not able to define themselves outside of their sexuality/consumption rates are easily put on this kind of treadmill before they are able to think it through.

For those of us who know a bit of history ..this was not a fingerprint of Christian nations but of pagan nations. Sexuality and holidays complete with festival/sexual rites.

Amazing to me how many Preachers do not teach this history to thier flocks...yet it is in the Bible if you read and think carefully on what is therein and written.

By the way..other than pre flood implications..the first post flood account on this topic of which I know is Noah and his son Ham...somewhere in Genesis.

What we have going on around us is an attempt to return us to pre flood pagan conditions...pagan economies ..pagan festivals. Whats more our own government is in on it as well as our school systems ..paid for and financed by government means. I believe in the intrest of "enlightment" we are being dumbed down on just about everything and anything. So that we dont catch on they keep us occupied by a mix of sports and sexuality and sexual programming...of all kinds. Yes sports too has become sexual..one look at the commercial appeal and this is obvious.

Our government has turned pagan and did not tell us. This will become clear and clearer as more time goes by to those of us who have not totally succumbed to the brainwashing and propaganda. I suppose this is one reason television appeals to me less and less as time goes by. Even the news formats have become of the lowest common denominator...all of them.

It is my belief/bias that we are being returned to a pre flood economy rites and rituals. That which was on the other side of the flood.

In some avenues this is called by the watchword ..

"The restoration of the True Brotherhood."

As to the buisness mentioned concerning Lot in the Bible. My knowlege of conditions and traditions of those times was that a person was responsible for guests and their safety when in his house. After they leave...not so. This was Lots attempt at securing the safety of his guests and therefore his name. This was the custom. IT does not do any good to look at this with our 20/20 hindsight using todays traditions.

I will say it again..you do not define yourself by your sex/sexuality for people are so much more than this drivel. Neither do you let someone else do it to you.

What nonsense we are being subjected and propagandized into.

I call this ...the dumbing down of a people.

Thanks,
Orangetom

To my opinion homosexuality is a choice, I don't think people are boren gay or straight, when we are boren the brain is empty, there is no gay cell or straight cell, we are simply boren blank and evolve from there on.

To simply say that some one is gay or straight because he was boren that way is simply something with out cover.

People are gay because they chose to do so, there is no scientific evidece on this issue, it's how people are educatad and influienced once they take birth.

[As far as Homosexuality being Genetic I can only respond from my own belief and experience. While I have always maintained a fondness for Female companionship, I did entertain homosexual tendencies when I was
Youmger (18-22).The first experience I admit I did enjoy however the 2nd experience I found repulsive. I can only suspect this might of developed after being abused (sexually) when I was small likely between the age of 4 or 5. This is only speculation on my part,I understand the possibility exists from trauma of this nature causing a predisposition of gay tendendcies,as I'm sure there are people afflicted with the same as a result of Genetics

[edit on 16-12-2007 by rudy311]

[edit on 16-12-2007 by rudy311]

Originally posted by IAF101
Actually I believe it is the other way around. Thousands of teenagers and young adolescents who are in fact normal heterosexuals have been brainwashed into believing that they are homosexuals because either they were unsuccessful with the opposite sex or were having other personality disorders. Also the social status that is projected of these people of being "suave and cool" and outside the system has misled thousands into believing that they are homosexuals, when they are not. Add to this the level of social norms and mores have been steadily decaying over the past few decades and any and all stigma attached to reckless and wanton debauchery has gone making homosexuality and bestiality more commonplace and even marketed.

You live in a dream world my friend - no amount of "cool factor" can alter someone's sexuality - it might alter their behaviour, but that is a completely separate issue (if you don't see that, well, that's probably why you hold such warped opinions in the first place).

Originally posted by IAF101
People can understand this by the fact that in Western Nations the number of people homosexually oriented is steadily increasing year after year. These are not "natural" cases but converts or experimentalists.

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong wrong.... You are wrong my friend.

Homosexuality isn't increasing - What is increasing is the cultural acceptance towards homosexuality, which means more homosexual men and women now feel more able to open about their sexuality, and earlier in their lives.

Conversely, this means the number of homosexual men and women living desperately unhappy and cloistered lives leading to all kinds of mental health issuess is decreasing - That can only be a good thing, unless of course you like to see your fellow humans suffer simply because they were born a little different to you - there's names for those sort of people.

Originally posted by pepsi78
To my opinion homosexuality is a choice, I don't think people are boren gay or straight, when we are boren the brain is empty, there is no gay cell or straight cell, we are simply boren blank and evolve from there on.

To simply say that some one is gay or straight because he was boren that way is simply something with out cover.

People are gay because they chose to do so, there is no scientific evidece on this issue, it's how people are educatad and influienced once they take birth.

At what age did you make the conscious decision to be heterosexual?

I bet it was difficult to sit your parents down and explain to them that you liked the opposite sex.

reply to post by kleverone


Best post so far. Aren't you the kleverone?

Originally posted by goosdawg
they have sex...

Oops! Skimming a bit too much. I assume the article means 'simulated sex'? I can't imagine these sea birds actually accomplishing the dirty deed, which is difficult enough with the ingenuity of a human. And I know that those beaks can't be involved. But then whether there is actual intercourse is probably beside the point. The birds do seem to be following their normal instincts, just with another male. That article also makes very good points about the dangers of drawing conclusions from such behavior observed in many different species. In a world where some organisms actually change their sex when necessary, nothing should surprise us much.

reply to post by dave7


I do believe that the spiritual dimension in involved in the subject. Looking forward to your take.

Originally posted by goosdawg

Well there's your problem right there, what's bestiality got to do with homosexuality?

They are both deviant sex acts. Both are also choices. There is no gay gene.

Being gay is no different than kids being brainwashed into worshipping Satan.

[edit on 16-12-2007 by tjsteeler]

Originally posted by goosdawg
But what you're trying to equate as comparable are questionable activities people can choose to indulge in or not, against genetic predispositions over which those so inclined have no choice.

It is that choice that is at debate here. The choice to act as homosexual even when they are not really is also a choice, they can make. A choice that could be influenced by many factors like the ones I was trying to describe before.

Originally posted by goosdawg
And so long as no one involved in that behavior objects, who's business is it to tell them they cannot or should not indulge, so long as it's mutually agreeable by all the parties involved?

We are not judging their behavior here, I am explaining the reasons why there are people who will join homosexual people as one of them . Also just because two people agree to do something doesnt mean they can do it. There are still some limits that their society imposes.

Originally posted by goosdawg
If you're born homosexual, you're homosexual. Statistics agree, one can't change that. Period.

Nobody knows for sure what their kind is when they are born. These things are learnt later and after social conditioning. People who dont see themselves as fitting into the defined heterosexual types will choose to consider themselves as part of the homosexual people.

Originally posted by goosdawg
One may suddenly realize they're homosexual, but it's not a "decision," according to science.

In the 1960's science said that homosexuals were mental people. Today they agree that they are NOT mental but they have never given a complete explanation to their condition.
Just because it is observed in nature doesnt mean that it is "normal". There are cows with 8 legs and frogs with 3 eyes. That does not make these animals normal. Homosexual existence is counter to the natural selection and other scientific principles because it does not permit procreation and thus is detrimental to the evolution of the species. Scientifically, homosexual animals should not be able to pass of their genes to newer generations and their genes should have died out completely.

Originally posted by goosdawg
No more than a white man can "decide" to be black.

They can act "black" but they can't be black.

Why not?

When a black person can become a white person why is the reverse not possible ? When a man can be transformed to a woman and a woman to a man through medical procedures what is the difference between choice and reality ? If they believe they are black or woman or homosexual then their mind lets them be that.

Originally posted by goosdawg
Generally, I think the perception that there are more homosexuals today is due to the fact that less of them feel compelled to stay in the closet.

That might be true also but it is hard to beleive that there is such a high percentage of population that is homosexual when the local population is increasing so rapidly. If they are genuine cases then there shouldnt be an explosion of such cases.

Originally posted by jupiter869
Two points: First, Nobody becomes a homosexual because someone of the opposite sex rejects them. That's laughable to believe that.

Second, it's not that the number of homosexuals is increasing, its the number of them admitting to themselves who they are

To the first point, that was just an example of some sort of psychological identity crisis with regards to younger teenagers and other impressionable children. There is no denying that many young people experiment with sexuality a lot and homosexuality is just one of these. In particular the cases of young women who openly exhibit homosexual behavior despite being heterosexuals is on the rise as we can see from any of the popular youth magazines.

To the second point, like I said before the sheer numbers of the undisclosed cases is shocking that there are indeed so many people who are among the local population and that their percentage is clearly growing to levels that makes me doubt that they are really genuine cases.

Originally posted by VelvetSplash
You live in a dream world my friend - no amount of "cool factor" can alter someone's sexuality - it might alter their behaviour, but that is a completely separate issue (if you don't see that, well, that's probably why you hold such warped opinions in the first place).

What is the difference between somebody acting like a homosexual and being a homosexual? To the observer it is the same. When people like Britney Spears, Madonna etc who have children commit homosexual acts clearly as some attention maneuver then is that not making it behavior that they are selling to the young and the impressionable as something that is a fashionable trait ?? Something risque and bold and being part of the counter culture phenomena ? These things all appeal to the rebellious and impressionable to emulate this behavior. Once they mentally make their decision they go with it as they convince themselves that their behavior is true to their emotion. Maybe, only in the latter stages will they be able to realize.

Originally posted by VelvetSplash
Homosexuality isn't increasing - What is increasing is the cultural acceptance towards homosexuality, which means more homosexual men and women now feel more able to open about their sexuality, and earlier in their lives.

Well, there are more gay bars and more gay magazines, more homosexual areas than before. Businesses do not start their operations on merely the social proprieties alone. They only come to fill a demand as the number of people have increased. What you say is true also that the cultural acceptance is also gone up, more so that in fact this behavior is being emulated by heterosexuals as being rebellious and cool, leading to more experimentalists and converts.

[edit on 16-12-2007 by IAF101]

Hey - what? Americans LOVE homosexuals. Why would they try and change them? I mean...wouldn't that put these people on the same level as those "barbarians" in Iran that don't recognise gay rights?

Iran does far worse than ignore gay rights

It was a case for war a few weeks back - now there are Christian fundies running round brainwashing folks.

So...whats acceptable - no gays in Iran or no gays in the eyes of right wing fundamentalist Christians in the USA?

reply to post by Beachcoma


Thanks for the linky, Beachcoma.

Interesting, with the application of a drug they can switch the male fly's sexual preference back and forth.

Doesn't really give the little buggers a choice though, does it?

I'll bet the "Imposers' would love to have a tool like that at their disposal.

"Here, take this drug, it will make you heterosexual so you'll be worthy of our god's love and salvation."

reply to post by IAF101


Just a quick correction.

The following comment was originally posted by sister VelvetSplash.

While you attributed this comment to me, and I would have been proud to have been the author of an idea so eloquently expressed, I must give credit where credit is due.

Originally posted by VelvetSplash
Homosexuality isn't increasing - What is increasing is the cultural acceptance towards homosexuality, which means more homosexual men and women now feel more able to open about their sexuality, and earlier in their lives.

Thanks



[edit on 16-12-2007 by goosdawg]

Originally posted by goosdawg
I'll bet the "Imposers' would love to have a tool like that at their disposal.

"Here, take this drug, it will make you heterosexual so you'll be worthy of our god's love and salvation."

Heh, yeah. That's one way to use this discovery. I was actually saving that link for another discussion. Remember a while back they had some rumours about the US military attempting to create a 'gay bomb'? That was the thought that occurred to me after I read that article.

Who knows. They might actually already have it... news reports usually lag 5-10 years behind actual military applications.