Texan 'hero' shoots and kills burglars

My personal views are the guy gave them a chance when he said move and your dead they moved and they are dead..

They shouldn't have been burglarizing anyone to begin with..

I am not an advocate of the death penalty for petty crimes it is funny though many of the people that are all for saving people are the same ones that are sitting at the keyboard waiting for the end of the world to come..if the end of the world comes regardless of the scenario people will be killed for far less than thievery and you had better be prepared to take life or have yours taken from you cause these same criminals will be killing you for your food so maybe we should all digest that ( pun intended) for a while..

Like I said they didn't have to move after he said he would shoot they moved he shot end of story.

I agree though if you are in defense of these criminals stay out of Missouri we don't want or need this kind of save the criminal don't spank your children (kids are young goats) nanny state type of thinking here we have enough and most want no more...

2 cents spent...

Respectfully
GEO


[edit on 12/4/2007 by geocom]

Some of the responses to this article have depressed me deeply. To say that the punishment didnt fit the crime is incorrect. The men shot were not punished. A court and/or jury punishes, the state punishes. This man not only had the right to protect his neighbors property, but every American should have the moral obligation to protect ones self and ones property, even if that includes the use of deadly force. This also includes the protection of thy neighbor's stuff.

I also think that those of you who say that stealing someones property is not worth "murdering" someone over. You have it wrong, the thief should have thought, "is taking someone's property worth dying for?"

Some of you have used analogies that are incorrect, such as saying that what this man did would the same as the cops shooting someone for graffiti, and thats not the same thing. These men decided to enter into someones home and take from them. They made a choice that cost them there lives, they were responsible for their own actions, while the neighbor exercised one of many possible actions, he exercised one that should be legal in all states.

No one has the right to take any persons property. This includes thieves, state, local,or federal governments or the national guard taking guns from law abiding citizens in New Orleans after Katrina.

What is more disturbing than a man shooting thieves on his property that were stealing from his neighbor, is people who would sit by and watch someone have their property stolen from them and due nothing.

Someone mentioned eugenics earlier, and I think, after reading some of the posts to this story, that a successful eugenics program has bred a sort of sheep/human hybrid in this country, a form of sheep people that think that it is ok to be a victim if the criminals has ever gone without, or to think that the police have some sort of special authority that "civilians" do not have. The eugenics program has almost completely been a success. Self preservation and the ability to provide for ones self has almost completely been bred out of American society. Once this has been completed then there will be a complete and total need to have a system in place to take care of the weak, which will be everyone.

Thank you sheeppeople.

[edit on 4-12-2007 by mother_jung]

Ok so let's assume that the caller didnt have a gun and decided to remain on the telephone with the police. The burglars leave the residence to take stuff to their van. Meanwhile the actual homeowner comes home for lunch. The burglars then make a second trip into the home presumably from a rear entrance not seeing the homeowner's vehicle. They are surprised to see the homeowner in the house and murder him in cold blood - which is OFTEN the case.

Where's the outcry now? These bastards have to be stopped.....it's one thing for the guy to SAY he's going to kill the two...but he may have only intended to hold them until the police arrive when they decided to rush him. The fatal flaw in our judicial system is that it favors the rights of the criminal rather than the rights of the victims. Granted this guy was the neighbor but he was making a stand against brazen criminals.

Take a wild guess what I would do

W.E.S.B

Originally posted by Dont Taze Me Bro
reply to post by Sentinel 1

 

I would go by whatever policy your employer gave to follow. Most likely in a situation like that where it is a military faclity the answer is probably shoot once in the air as a warning and the next shot is to center mass if they don't halt.

I dont know where you got the "warning" shot up in the air information...But....The facility is in the middle of a busy airport....You dont wana shoot in the air and you have already yelled halt....Then what??? If you shoot the guys you will have the ACLU coming down on you because you are a white guy.....

I am taking the day off to be with my kids...

A friend of mine at work calls me. We live 1/4 mile apart, but I have never been to his place. Work buddies.

He's at work and is having a rough asthma day... a real rough one.

He left his inhaler at home.

Work is a 45 minute commute away. Its an important day for my buddy; he has a presentation to the regional manager that is flying out of town tonight. He can breathe... but not well. Aparently, its a bad ozone day in the city...

The show must go on. He pleads.

He wants me to run to his place... break open one of the small windows next to his front door and reach around to get in...

Then grab the inhaler and bring it to him at work.

I fire up the truck and run to his home; traveling 15 over the limit.

I break in.

I grab his bag full of inhaler stuff...

I go back out the front door.

Broad daylight.

"Move and you're dead"

...'but I'm bringing...

Bang I'm dead.

innocent but looking guilty,

Sri Oracle

Originally posted by DeadFlagBlues
reply to post by bigbert81

 

Please, spare us. If you've ever been around people who "put in work," you really have no idea what you're talking about. You really, really don't. If you think they care about police or the people inside the house they don't. They care about getting that loot and that is all. They have no regard for other parties involved and murder may have been overkill, but sometimes bad people have to die. It's what humans do. Sorry that sounds harsh, but it's reality. Deal with it.

You're an idiot. Humans also take care of each other, love each other and respect each other. Killing people for stealing is just stupid. America sure has fallen into the gutter.

Originally posted by mother_jung
Some of the responses to this article have depressed me deeply.

Ironic. Your response depressed me deeply. You Americans are starting to amaze me. The things that you covet amaze me. The right to bear arms, and shoot the 'n-word's next door. Is that what it means now to be an American? What's going on here? Is ATS being taken over by brainless rednecks?

You're now the most lost people on Earth. You really believe that you're "protecting" yourselves with your precious guns. Meanwhile your government continues to grow more and more corrupt, ripping you all off in the process. You're getting poorer and poorer every day (as of today the average American man, woman and child, has $30,000 of debt).

Your leaders - winners like George W. Bush - twist and tear at your most precious of documents, the Constitution, and you sit back and take it up the posterior. You're fighting an illegal war right now in Iraq, yet you've gained nothing from it, and you suck it up and accept it all. Okay, so Bush and his gangsters f over the Constitution by going into Iraq without consulting Congress, and you do nothing. So why are you all so emotional about your "right to keep and bear arms"?

How safe would you feel with your handguns if the government came knocking at your door? You can bring your hunting rifle. They're going to bring tanks and God knows what strange and new weapons. You won't stand a chance.

Get over yourselves. The right to bear arms may have meant something back in the 1700's, but we've come a long way since then. In intelligent countries, there is a thing called "the Police" who help out in these cases.

You Americans are bunch of lost, brainwashed puppies.

Just some stats to consider:

www.fbi.gov...
Overview

Burglary Definition:
The Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program defines burglary as the unlawful entry of a structure to commit a felony or theft. To classify an offense as a burglary, the use of force to gain entry need not have occurred. The Program has three subclassifications for burglary: forcible entry, unlawful entry where no force is used, and attempted forcible entry. The UCR definition of “structure” includes, for example, apartment, barn, house trailer or houseboat when used as a permanent dwelling, office, railroad car (but not automobile), stable, and vessel (i.e., ship).


In 2006, there were an estimated 2,183,746 burglary offenses—an increase of 1.3 percent when compared with 2005 data.

An examination of 5- and 10-year trends revealed an increase of 1.5 percent in the number of burglaries when compared with the 2002 estimate and a decline of 11.2 percent when compared with the 1997 estimate. (See Tables 1 and 1A.)

Burglary accounted for 21.9 percent of the estimated number of property crimes committed in 2006. (Based on Table 1.)
In 2006, burglary offenses cost victims an estimated $4 billion in lost property. (Based on Tables 1 and 23.)

The average dollar loss per burglary offense in 2006 was $1,834.

Of the burglary offenses in 2006, 66.2 percent were of residential structures. (See Table 23.)

Of the burglaries for which the time of occurrence was known, 63.1 percent of residential burglaries took place during the day.

Among burglaries of nonresidential structures when time of occurrence was known, 56.7 percent occurred at night. (Based on Table 23.)


Robery: Definition
The Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program defines robbery as the taking or attempting to take anything of value from the care, custody, or control of a person or persons by force or threat of force or violence and/or by putting the victim in fear.


Nationwide in 2006, there were an estimated 447,403 robbery offenses.

The estimated number of robbery offenses increased 7.2 percent from the 2005 estimate. However, the estimated number of offenses declined 10.3 percent in a comparison with the data from 10 years earlier (1997 and 2006). (See Table 1 and 1A.)

By location type, most robberies (44.5 percent) were committed on streets or highways. (See Table 23.)

The average dollar value of property stolen per robbery offense was $1,268. By location type, bank robbery had the highest average dollar value taken—$4,330 per offense.

Losses estimated at $567 million were attributed to robberies during 2006. (Based on Tables 1 and 23.)

Firearms were used in 42.2 percent of robberies for which the UCR Program received supplementary data. (Based on Table 19.)

Originally posted by JRCrowley

You're an idiot. Humans also take care of each other, love each other and respect each other. Killing people for stealing is just stupid.

And I guess get mad and call their fellow humans idiots and other things that show a lack of love and respect on your part when you can't force them to agree with you.

How about checking yourself in the mirror with your own words and quit worrying about us Americans?

My current motto to go along with the ATS motto: Deny Hypocrisy.

BTW, I brought you back from IGNORE status to write this. No doubt you'll be headed back there very soon.

[edit on 12/4/2007 by centurion1211]

Originally posted by JRCrowley
You Americans are starting to amaze me. The things that you covet amaze me. The right to bear arms, and shoot the 'n-word's next door. Is that what it means now to be an American? What's going on here? Is ATS being taken over by brainless rednecks?

I hope you realize that redneck, although less offensive than 'n-word', is still a racial slur.

Part of being an American is having the right to bear arms, yes. If you don't agree with that, fine. I pity those of you who live in countries where the citizens are disarmed and the government can impose whatever unjust law it wants upon the impotent masses.

We have the right to bear arms because the founders saw fit to give the people of this country more rights than the government. They realized that governments, being human institutions, are just as vulnerable to corruption as you or I; and just as no human being should weild absolute power, no government should either.

You're now the most lost people on Earth. You really believe that you're "protecting" yourselves with your precious guns. Meanwhile your government continues to grow more and more corrupt, ripping you all off in the process. You're getting poorer and poorer every day (as of today the average American man, woman and child, has $30,000 of debt).

Your leaders - winners like George W. Bush - twist and tear at your most precious of documents, the Constitution, and you sit back and take it up the posterior. You're fighting an illegal war right now in Iraq, yet you've gained nothing from it, and you suck it up and accept it all. Okay, so Bush and his gangsters f over the Constitution by going into Iraq without consulting Congress, and you do nothing. So why are you all so emotional about your "right to keep and bear arms"?

I hate to say this but you're right on all those points. The government has no concern for the national debt and the ruin of our economy, we are in a war that most of us don't want to be in, and our constitutional freedoms are being eroded.

But doesn't that prove my point? The goal of this administration is a police state, but that is something they cannot enforce. They are too afraid. If it weren't for our second ammenment rights people would already be getting tortured in gulags and the bill of rights, possibly even the entire constitution, would be suspended.

How safe would you feel with your handguns if the government came knocking at your door? You can bring your hunting rifle. They're going to bring tanks and God knows what strange and new weapons. You won't stand a chance.

However hopeless our chances would be if such a scenario were to play out, they would be much better than yours if the same thing were to happen in your country.

Get over yourselves. The right to bear arms may have meant something back in the 1700's, but we've come a long way since then. In intelligent countries, there is a thing called "the Police" who help out in these cases.

Indeed the world has come a long way since the 1700's, Nazi Germany and Communist Russia both came about long after all of the founding fathers were dead. They realized that even in modernity human nature would still compel men to oppressively rule over others. In your false sense of self importance and intellectual superiority you've overlooked that fact that "police" is a key part of "police state."

Though I would throw this out for everyone to feast on..

you can call me a redneck if you like after seeing and reading this I won't mind.

The term Redneck was coined in the early 1900's it was a good thing it meant that you were a hard working individual


This comes from the Blair Mountain Mining Incident in which the miners held there ground against and marched to battle with the hired guns of mining companies they wore red bandanna's around there necks to identify each other
hence the term REDNECK

you can check it out at the link below though I ordinarily don't rely on wikipedia they have this one right as I just saw it on the history channel..


en.wikipedia.org...

Respectfully
GEO

[edit on 12/4/2007 by geocom]

Originally posted by JRCrowley

Ironic. Your response depressed me deeply. You Americans are starting to amaze me. The things that you covet amaze me. The right to bear arms, and shoot the 'n-word's next door. Is that what it means now to be an American? What's going on here? Is ATS being taken over by brainless rednecks?

"The Right To Bear Arms" Now means that anyone that isnt black and owns a gun means they are now racist?? You sad "Down with whitey!!" Huh??? That was the dumbest statement I have seen yet....Whites are not the only people who own guns and shoot people any where in the world...Moron....

You're now the most lost people on Earth. You really believe that you're "protecting" yourselves with your precious guns. Meanwhile your government continues to grow more and more corrupt, ripping you all off in the process. You're getting poorer and poorer every day (as of today the average American man, woman and child, has $30,000 of debt).

Naw we are wide awake....That is why we have our guns (Remember Hitler) What was the first thing he took away from his population?.Do some history unarmed people are great peasants.....O and I am not poor nor do I have any debt and I am an average American....

Your leaders - winners like George W. Bush - twist and tear at your most precious of documents, the Constitution, and you sit back and take it up the posterior. You're fighting an illegal war right now in Iraq, yet you've gained nothing from it, and you suck it up and accept it all. Okay, so Bush and his gangsters f over the Constitution by going into Iraq without consulting Congress, and you do nothing. So why are you all so emotional about your "right to keep and bear arms"?

I notice you didnt put a location of where you were from...You talk about our leader and you wont even post your location...Shows you are proud of your leadership and country....I would say it is probably some third world dump...And you came here to knock our country out of jealousy....O and atleast we have a constitution...Do you????

How safe would you feel with your handguns if the government came knocking at your door? You can bring your hunting rifle. They're going to bring tanks and God knows what strange and new weapons. You won't stand a chance.

I doubt that would happen actually....Our police and military are our sons,daughters,fathers and mothers.....There is a reason for that you know...Man you are a moron.....Kinda the same reason we do not put foriegners like yourself in our presidents seat.....

Get over yourselves. The right to bear arms may have meant something back in the 1700's, but we've come a long way since then. In intelligent countries, there is a thing called "the Police" who help out in these cases.

Really your intelligent???? I am sorry,But I still think you are a moron....O and speaking of that country you are in and are so proud of I noticed you never mentioned it once......It must be a great place huh??? If you are the best they got I could just imagine where it is....Your a winner...

You Americans are bunch of lost, brainwashed puppies.

Yea if you say so but atleast we still have our guns....And we will keep them to keep morons like yourself, with your hatred of us and our country from taking over.....Get a life Moron!!!!

Originally posted by Sentinel 1
He was right on the money??? What you taking bets??? Funny every time a white cop or just a white civillian does anything to a black it turns into a race issue.....As if blacks do nothing wrong......Looks like a way to discredit blame for their own actions to me.....Got news for ya pal not every white that lives in Teaxas is a racist.....I seem to remember a certain huriicane that took alot of peoples homes of a certain race that needed a place to live and Texas took in alot of them but we dont remember all that it isnt an excuse to discredit any crime which is what alot of those certain individuals brought with them aswell......But all whites in Texas are just rednecks.........

Pay attention to what I'm typing, homeboy. I didn't say all white people in Texas are rednecks. I said this fool felt like killing some people; hell, he said it himself on tape.

Bottom line is he saw a chance to kill 2 people. They were robbing his neighbor's spot. He could have stayed safe and sound in his house, homeboy. But he couldn't help himself, with that itchy trigger finger and all.

You can bet this isn't his first time shooting someone.

reply to post by Mr. Pele Pele



What makes you think he has shot a person before....I am sure he would be sitting in a prison if he was doing what you are insinuating..Remember this was not a random shooting....He shot people that where robbing his neighbors home....He didnt just go out and commit a random killing here was a reason.....Which is why we keep going around in circles on this ....If these guys where not breaking and entering which is a crime no matter how you put it....We could use any number of scenarios on this including maybe this guy thought the robbers killed his neighbors....Also you do not know if these guys rushed him aswell....That would cause anyone to shoot....Even a cop.....You wouldnt want them to get the gun from you and turn it on you.....

reply to post by geocom

Grea post geo, I learn something everyday in the mostunlikey places.
thanks bro!

Originally posted by geocom
My personal views are the guy gave them a chance when he said move and your dead they moved and they are dead..

Then I guess he could have shot them........... in the leg?

They shouldn't have been burglarizing anyone to begin with..

Dead straight they shouldn`t.

I am not an advocate of the death penalty for petty crimes it is funny though many of the people that are all for saving people are the same ones that are sitting at the keyboard waiting for the end of the world to come..if the end of the world comes regardless of the scenario people will be killed for far less than thievery and you had better be prepared to take life or have yours taken from you cause these same criminals will be killing you for your food so maybe we should all digest that ( pun intended) for a while..

This is something I have contemplated also,though your making alot of assumptions here on things you dont know what will happen and how to react to anyone you meet in the said end time scenario if and when it does in our life time.There`s been good discussion on this very subject in the survival threads.

I agree though if you are in defense of these criminals

I`d be surprised if anyone is in defense of these guys breaking and entering and stealing here,the objections you dont like is hearing "you dont have the right to kill thieves".

Stringing up horse thieves,died along time ago as well in the US,yet at the time they stopped hanging people for it I`m sure there were many complaining about that as well.

You have a right to defend yourself,you do not have the right to kill if your or someone else`s life is not in danger from an aggressor.Theft doesn`t qualify.Thieves running away from a neighbor`s house does not qualify.

Why? because its called civilization.Thank goodness its not unlawfulization.Which some here wish to live in it sounds.

Heck it sounds as if some people here would kill another just for giving their opinions,says to me not everyone should be allowed weapons.

and to your last comment about children,I hope your children never steal from your purse.

reply to post by gps777



I have to disagree with you on your "most" people should not own a gun especially in the Us all statistics show evidence that nearly everyone that owns a gun has somthing called common sence otherwise there would be alot more crime than we have now...Also look at all the conceal carry laws we have almost all states have them...I think 47 out of 50 or so...You can google it.......

Originally posted by Sentinel 1

I have to disagree with you on your "most" people should not own a gun especially in the Us

Actually I said.......

"Heck it sounds as if some people here would kill another just for giving their opinions,says to me not everyone should be allowed weapons."

Check if you like,its just above your post.

all statistics show evidence that nearly everyone that owns a gun has somthing called common sence otherwise there would be alot more crime than we have now..

Well I have to disagree then,because thats an opinion,If all the firearms were removed how could anyone know that crime would rise,its also impossible to prove that nearly everyone who has a gun has common sense.This to me is common sense,dont I have it in your opinion?

I havn`t looked up stats,though I thought it common knowledge the US has the highest crime rates in the world,could be wrong but its gotta be up there.

But........

I can agree with this in your situation only because their is a huge problem in the States with illegal fire arms I have heard,which can be easily purchased,what a mess,and because your Gov has proved its self to warrant (to many not just your people) to be wary of.

This is a whole different issue though,this is about whether people have a right to shot and kill thieves and consider them Hero`s if they do.

Well I have to disagree then,because thats an opinion,If all the firearms were removed how could anyone know that crime would rise,its also impossible to prove that nearly everyone who has a gun has common sense.This to me is common sense,dont I have it in your opinion?

Well I am sorry to play ping pong with ya but.....Lol....I can debunk that theory aswell and my evidence would be granted you can not take all the guns out we both know that but look at all the places that have tried to take them...Look at the UK for instance they tried to and their crime went up....Also look at the states here in the US that have tried Washington for instance their crime went up...As a matter of fact the people there are trieing to get the guns back....Its easy to look up stats just google....Look at the state that have less gun laws compared to the ones that do....

Also think about this,If and I say if you where a theif and was robbing would you rob a store that had a big sign on it saying No Guns Allowed or one that said warning protected by Smith and Wesson it is pretty nuch a no brainer...


PS: Sorry if I mis-read your post I am pretty tired have been all night "I at work """ shh! Lol


[edit on 5-12-2007 by Sentinel 1]

reply to post by gps777


this may be an urban myth but, didnt VIOLENT crime in austrailia go UP after they outlawed guns?

like i said in another post, when everyone loves each other and the govt's of the world are run by decent honorable men and when food is readily available to all regardless of wealth so that i dont have to worry about hunting...THEN, MAYBE ill give up my gun.

til then, no, sorry.