New Law Could Make Gay Jokes Illegal

reply to post by Niall197

How would you feel if your workmates called you a faggot every day of the week ? And when you went to your boss to complain he didn't act in any way ?

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Sounds to me it's not an issue of being homosexual, but being a wuss. Stand up for yourself. It's people like you that need laws to stand up for you. Grow a set. I have gay friends that would never be spoken to like that at work, out of respect and fear. Obviously you don't have a strong prescence, and would probably be called that regardless of your sexuality. Kick someone's ass or sue. Don't sit back and wait for useless joke laws to save you.

reply to post by SimiusDei


This "us and them" mentality is part of what has forced the process to where it is now.
Gay pride marches exist because of the persecution, victimisation and prejudice that exists in the world today.

As one poster said, it's only in the last few years that there has been equality, and this shines through in this thread - I've even heard that most seventies of terms "gay bashing".

A joke at the expense of someones sexuality is not always funny to the person(s) it is aimed at.

Also, to say "it's their problem, not mine" about the perception of a "joke" shows a complete disregard for others, how they feel, how they are affected and is a very selfish attitude.

This attitude is a major part of what's wrong with the world today - people wanting to do what pleases THEM without regard to how their actions affect others.

There is no "us and them"
We are all humans, some with different tastes or a different way of dressing etc etc

This is not about freedom of speech - unless you call wanting to focus hate and prejudice through alleged humour freedom of speech.

For our societies to grow and move forwards, we need to embrace inclusivity in this and other area's and stop judging and marginalising because someone is different or because they are perceived as different.

Political Correctness is best described as an insane attempt by a liberal media to convince a delusional public that you can pick up a turd by the clean end

Originally posted by budski



A joke at the expense of someones sexuality is not always funny to the person(s) it is aimed at.

Also, to say "it's their problem, not mine" about the perception of a "joke" shows a complete disregard for others, how they feel, how they are affected and is a very selfish attitude.

This attitude is a major part of what's wrong with the world today - people wanting to do what pleases THEM without regard to how their actions affect others.

you're right...a joke about homosexuality might not be funny to a gay person..

so, that is MY problem cause that dude can't take a funny?
i don't see how that is...

i should NOT speak and say things that i want to say for fear of however many people being offended.....?
that ain't hapening.

i guess i have a selfish attitude then.
people like frank zappa, lenny bruce, keroac, ginsburg....thse guys all spent their careers writing and satirizing things to make it how it is today...so we actually have free speech...
maybe it is an us vs them and maybe 'they' need to get past it.


lenny bruce would go on stage and say"there any (n words) here tonight?
crowd would erupt...then any ___. any ____, any___ and run down the entire list...

it's called funny.


to your last part...people wanting to do what pleases them....i wish more people would go about their day this way, instead of trying to be all PC and not to anything that someone else might not like....

this is my life and i am going to live it how i want....

i do not hate or dislikes homosexuals, lesbians, etc etc....best bet i'll crack jokes all day...

i can take it....i'm irish....think i'm gonna cry next time i hear the cliche' joke about the drunk irishman...?

reply to post by budski


But you are still not addressing the issue.

Do you honestly believe that jokes or jeers directed at someone should be against the law?


If so, do you honestly believe that it will stop there?

Originally posted by Boondock78
lenny bruce would go on stage and say"there any (n words) here tonight?
crowd would erupt...then any ___. any ____, any___ and run down the entire list...

"Lenny Bruce is not afraid"

REM "End of the World as we Know it"

reply to post by Boondock78


While I don't find myself agreeing with you often, I definitely share your same distaste for political correctness.


What's funny to me is, pretty much EVERYONE makes jokes as someone else's expense, yet they only seem to mind when it's directed at them.

I, personally, have noticed that gay guys LOVE to crack on straight women and fat people.


Jasn

reply to post by Griff


George Carlin and Bill Hicks did the same thing. They are both GODS of comedy.




Perhaps the only true solution is to outlaw speech altogether, since it is IMPOSSIBLE to limit one particular form of speech without facing backlash for not outlawing another form.


Then we could all go about our sensitive days all happy and carefree.....well for at least a few minutes until we found something else dumb to cry about.


Jasn

reply to post by SimiusDei


I was quoting a lyric in the "End of the World as we Know it" by REM.

That's great, it starts with an earthquake, birds and snakes, an
aeroplane - Lenny Bruce is not afraid. Eye of a hurricane, listen to
yourself churn - world serves its own needs, don't misserve your own
needs. Feed it up a knock, speed, grunt no, strength no.

Ladder structure clatter with fear of height, down height. Wire in a fire,
represent the seven games in a government for hire and a combat site.

Left her, wasn't coming in a hurry with the furies breathing down your
neck. Team by team reporters baffled, trump, tethered crop. Look at that
low plane! Fine then.

Uh oh, overflow, population, common group, but
it'll do. Save yourself, serve yourself.

World serves its own needs,
listen to your heart bleed. Tell me with the rapture and the reverent in
the right - right.

You vitriolic, patriotic, slam, fight, bright light,
feeling pretty psyched.

It's the end of the world as we know it.
It's the end of the world as we know it.
It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine.

But, I agree with you.

As much as I hate Fred Phelps, I'd fight to the death for him to spout his hate. As long as it infringes on no other person.

BTW, protesting at funerals does infringe on other people and that is why it is not covered by the first amendment.

Originally posted by SimiusDei


While I don't find myself agreeing with you often, I definitely share your same distaste for political correctness.


What's funny to me is, pretty much EVERYONE makes jokes as someone else's expense, yet they only seem to mind when it's directed at them.

everyone cracks jokes....
i HATE political correctness. i HATE the whole trying to limit speech deal.
i don't like to be told what i can say and what i can't because someone else might not like what i said...
i can't get behind that...

like i keep saying...if person a makes a joke and person b gets bent, then person b needs to lean how to deal...
pretty simple really

Alright, as Ive been warned for inappropriate language and my post removed, let me make my point in other words:


Things we think about often, we start talking about.
Things we talk about often, we start doing.

Thought becomes speech, speech becomes action.

Thinking of someone as inferiour too often, will lead to talking like that and then to acting like that by commiting violence toward that group of people.

But where do we draw the line of what is against the law? It is against the law to take hateful action (hitting someone), it is not against the law to practice hateful thinking.

Speech & Writing is somewhere in between. Where do we draw the line?

And if saying word x does become forbidden by law, will that solve the hate? I SERIOUSLY doubt it. Someone who hates, as psychological issues that need to be adressed. But someone who takes the hurt personally all the time, also has some issues to be adressed.

Sorry for the post above btw

There's a really big difference between PC (which I don't like) and bigotry and/or racism (which I dislike even more) - but the line is very easy to cross, despite the differences.

Personally, I try never to make a remark, joke or comment that could be misconstrued and offense taken from it, although with some people this is an impossible task - except when used in a self deprecating way. After all, no one can accuse you of bigotry for laughing at yourself.

I also like humour as much as the next person - with the exception that my love of satire runs more in the direction of Peter Cook or Monty Python.

If you'd like a really good example of dark humour, try The League of Gentlemen - a great example of how humour need not be offensive to lots of different groups, and still be very effective.

I suppose what I'm really trying to say is that the days of comedians like bernard manning (or indeed lenny bruce) has passed - minority groups should not be the butt of jokes because of how they look/sound/dress or because of sexual preference - if you want to make jokes about someone because they don't fit the norm then it's going to be a rough ride for you.

I'd also like to point out AGAIN, that singling someone out for an attack (which is what most jokes are) simply because they are different, is a form of bullying, as well as racism and bigotry.

reply to post by budski


Alright agreed. So would you deem it appropriate or effective to make words against the law?

Have we ever had "forbidden words" in our history or has that, up to now, been a feature of science-fiction dystopias?

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Things we think about often, we start talking about.
Things we talk about often, we start doing.

Thought becomes speech, speech becomes action.

Thinking of someone as inferiour too often, will lead to talking like that and then to acting like that by commiting violence toward that group of people.

i just don't think you're getting it....

how does me cracking a gay joke make me think they are inferior?

seems to me like YOU have a complex or issues about this...
i crack jokes about all kinds of people....nothing about being inferior.

thoughts lead to speech which leads to actions??

so if i joke that is going to lead to what???


i really don't think what you're saying is true. i think you want it to be true...

most of us are talking about free speech and jokes. i don't know what you are talking about

reply to post by SimiusDei


A difficult question and it's hard to know where to draw the line, BUT targetting specific groups to poke fun at, or to make jokes about IS racism and/or bigotry.

Personally speaking I'd rather the bigots and racists were taught a lesson in how to behave towards other humans.

As for where do we draw the line?
We draw the line where things become acceptable on a reasonable level for all diverse groups and cultures.

Laugh at yourself, that's fine.
Laugh at your own ethnic group (another paddy here) and laugh at your own orientation, that's fine too.
But for too long people have used "humour" as a weapon to marginalise already marginalised groups - and it really needs to stop at some point - and if the only way to get the message across is to slap a few bigots down then so be it.

The article in question is also getting something (as usual) lost in the discussion - it's about alleged humour being used as a hate crime, and that's been my point all along.

reply to post by Boondock78


As already mentioned I do ocassionally crack jokes about minorities. In fact, my last one got removed by staff

What I am ASKING is: Where draw the line?

Originally posted by budski
I suppose what I'm really trying to say is that the days of comedians like bernard manning (or indeed lenny bruce) has passed - minority groups should not be the butt of jokes because of how they look/sound/dress or because of sexual preference - if you want to make jokes about someone because they don't fit the norm then it's going to be a rough ride for you.

I'd also like to point out AGAIN, that singling someone out for an attack (which is what most jokes are) simply because they are different, is a form of bullying, as well as racism and bigotry.

i don't think those times are past. why? cause people are sensative little babies these days?
what about when a comic of a minority group makes fun of a caucasian? is that ok? you know making fun of how 'we' dress and how 'we' talk, all nerdy like....

personally, i think that stuff is funny as hell. chris rock with his 'cracka ass cracka'...it's great.

what do you mean it is going to be a rough ride?

i'd like to point out AGAIN, that jokes are NOT an attack an is NOT a form of racism and bigotry.

that is how YOU are choosing to look at it and i think maybe cause you are sensative. maybe you can't handle it....i don't know...
but you're still wrong.

we do have free speech. i CAN crack jokes about whoever or whatever i want and as much as you would like to make it sound like i am a racist or a bigot, i am NOT. so, there goes that theory.

frank zappa was italian. he satirized italians a lot..is that ok? why? cause he was italian?

i just don't see where you are coming from...well, i do but i don't agree.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

What I am ASKING is: Where draw the line?

don't know.
i don't have all the answers.

Originally posted by budski
it's about alleged humour being used as a hate crime, and that's been my point all along.

care to give an example of an instance where 'alleged' humor has been used as a hate crime?

thanks

you ever hear that song jewish princess by frank?

you think that he was an anti semite? i mean really? or was he making music full of satire.....
you figgit out


edit*
lyrics here

globalia.net...

course the ADL DEMANDED an apology from frank but he came up with none...his reasoning was he has the right to sing/say what he wants to say....and, there ARE jewish girls that are like that...
that was his point....

then he hits the femanist movement, italians, black people.....all kinds of stuff.

people think he was a racist and a bigot but nothing could be further from the truth.
going back to highschool in 50's california, he was always in integrated bands when that was a HUGE no no...
his bands had people from black/white/indian/male/female....

didn't matter.

so in short, come off it....it IS OK to laugh....if you don't find certain tihngs funny, then don't listen to them, don't watch them, etc....



[edit on 13-11-2007 by Boondock78]