The Jena 6

I asked if you really believed an all white jury was going to tell a black lawyer the truth of whether or not their decision was based on race
.
And if you did believe that, are you naive?

Besides the FACT that your entire post is full of personal experience and opinion, totally without verifiable fact, did you even READ my post?

DID you read about WHY there were NO BLACK JURORS?

Or did you skip that to continue on with opinion and supposition?

Semper

reply to post by semperfortis

I read the blog that asserted as to why there were no black jurors but I saw no verification of it.

Originally posted by grover

Nothing happens in a vacuum and while the noose incident and the beating may not have been directly linked as in A to B, there was a chain of resentment in the black community there, that just didn't happen. A lot was rooted in the fact that the school administration basically refused to take the noose incident seriously. Which given the history of lynchings in the deep south should have been. Instead they slapped the kids responsible with a 3 day suspension and continued to write it off as a prank.

THAT as much as anything is at the root of this issue. A root that neither you, Semper, or RR or Grady Philpot have even made even a half hearted attempt to address. And, if your track record remains the same, you won't.

THAT is not opinion. It is a matter of record that the principle and the school administration wrote the noose off as a prank and gave the kids responsible a 3 day suspension.

AND as a matter of record you still have not addressed that.

Originally posted by grover



THAT is not opinion. It is a matter of record that the principle and the school administration wrote the noose off as a prank and gave the kids responsible a 3 day suspension.

AND as a matter of record you still have not addressed that.

How do you address something that is illrelevent? They hung a noose, they got suspended from school? Isn't that the proper procedure? What did you expect? The death penalty?

How about you address something, Grover. Explain to me why the Jena 6 are not being accused of a hate crime? They obviously attacked this kid because of his race.

[edit on 21-9-2007 by RRconservative]

Because "hate crimes" laws only apply to Whites who commit crimes against minorities, homosexuals, etc. Afterall, as we all know only White people are capable of being racist (sarcasm).

Seriously, someone find me one case where a non White person was charged with a hate crime. I think your going to be hard pressed. THAT IS THE TRUE INJUSTICE IN OUR SYSTEM.

reply to post by RRconservative


Only people like you RR seem to think that it is irrelevant.

BTW I have said what I thought should have been done to those kids who hung the nooses... They should have been expelled and the school administration and city officials from the Principle, to the Mayor to the DA should have made it explicitly clear that such behavior was unacceptable... PERIOD!!!



[edit on 22-9-2007 by grover]

Originally posted by RRconservative
How about you address something, Grover. Explain to me why the Jena 6 are not being accused of a hate crime? They obviously attacked this kid because of his race.

no, they attacked the kid because of his participation in racist practices....
it wasn't based on his race.

honestly, you turn a blind eye to history here, even the very recent history of the multiple incidents in the school.

What amazes me is how quick they are to condemn the racism implied in the beating of the "poor little white boy" (which BTW there was a good chance of since... SURPRISE... racism tends to breed racism) but not a word condemning the nooses and the racism explicit in that act.

Also they say nothing about the behavior of said "poor little white boy" in the lead up to his beating, which by all accounts, may not have justified his beating, but certainly made it more likely.

In all reality given the history of the lynching of blacks in this country and especially in the deep south, those nooses, far from being a childish prank, were far more violent than anything that has happened since.

Symbols and the ideas behind them can be far more violent than any physical act.

[edit on 22-9-2007 by grover]

DID you read

Obviously not

Typical

Semper

reply to post by semperfortis


I said I read didn't I? And I also said that I did not see any verification of his claim.

Originally posted by grover
What amazes me is how quick they are to condemn the racism implied in the beating of the "poor little white boy" (which BTW there was a good chance of since... SURPRISE... racism tends to breed racism) but not a word condemning the nooses and the racism explicit in that act.

Also they say nothing about the behavior of said "poor little white boy" in the lead up to his beating, which by all accounts, may not have justified his beating, but certainly made it more likely.

In all reality given the history of the lynching of blacks in this country and especially in the deep south, those nooses, far from being a childish prank, were far more violent than anything that has happened since.

Symbols and the ideas behind them can be far more violent than any physical act.

[edit on 22-9-2007 by grover]

Need I repeat myself? Where is the outrage over the nooses? Where is the saying that THAT was not only wrong but obscene?

The more I read comments from you on the right the more amazed I become. And you rail about us liberals.... and you make out that conservatives are somehow more moral than us liberals. Ha... SNORT even.

Perhaps.... perhaps there is more to this story than has been repeated by the media... I will grant you that BUT and it is a big BUT What the white students did, and what started all of this was totally unacceptable.

Again I ask where is your outrage over that?

[edit on 22-9-2007 by grover]

reply to post by grover


hell, where's the outrage over the people that circled the protesters in trucks holding nooses?

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


I know I know.... And ya know when I point out the racist roots of the Republican dominance in the south with the flight of segregationist's from the Democratic party over its support of civil rights, they get all upset but that doesn't change the fact of the matter. Its a matter of history.

The conservative Republicans want to whitewash (pardon the pun) all of that as if it didn't happen but the fact remains as late as the 2000 South Carolina primary the race card was still in play. The bush minor camp used it against John McCain by sending out mailings claiming that McCain's adopted daughter from Bangladesh was actually a love child with a black prostitute.

Of course the bush minor camp and Karl Rove used a shadow group to swift boat McCain with, but bush minor never disavowed the mailings even after being asked to. That was totally shameful and highlights my point; if race was not such a hot button topic with them, they would have never used it.

Look at it this way... if Rove and company are not racists themselves but have no problem playing the race card, then they are cold blooded cynics; (of course we already know this about Rove who was quick to play the religion card as well while being an agnostic) playing to the worst in American character, or they are indeed racist themselves. Either way the end result is despicable.

Of course you will never get any of this crowd to condemn them, they prefer to try and turn the tables and claim discrimination against whites.

What a joke that is. I have been a white male all my life and I am not about to change and not once have I ever felt or experienced discrimination because of it; if anything it has, like all privilege, including white privilege been a pass card.

Of course all of the above; including the parts that are a matter of historical record, will be dismissed out of hand as my opinion... which is a convenient excuse for avoiding an actual discussion.

The right uses it a lot. They think its a neat little trick but it doesn't fool anybody.

Ya know the REAL joke about the rights assertion of reverse discrimination against whites is that, while some instances may exist, they still pale in comparison to the real discrimination experienced by blacks and other minorities in this country.


[edit on 23-9-2007 by grover]

reply to post by grover


yea, just look at "driving while black"
it's a good enough reason for someone to get pulled over in america, but so many people refuse to acknowledge that such discrimination happens.

I take it that this is a little known fact to peopel but, Racisim goes both ways. Simple really, white kids hits black kid, hate crime. Black kid hits white kid, well kids will be kids. The Black kids should all go to juvinile for hate crimes on the white boy.

ProTo

Proto

Waste of time my Friend

Just read the few posts prior to yours

Semper

Originally posted by grover

What amazes me is how quick they are to condemn the racism implied in the beating of the "poor little white boy" (which BTW there was a good chance of since... SURPRISE... racism tends to breed racism) but not a word condemning the nooses and the racism explicit in that act...

...Ya know the REAL joke about the rights assertion of reverse discrimination against whites is that, while some instances may exist, they still pale in comparison to the real discrimination experienced by blacks and other minorities in this country.

Go back and read what I have said semper.



[edit on 26-9-2007 by grover]

Go back and read what I have said semper.

Why?

You constantly quote yourself

Facts are something that I consider to be totally different from YOUR words or MY words

What YOU said does not make it so Grover

Neither does your constant emphasis on YOUR opinion or more consistent self quoting

Now that is a FACT

Semper

reply to post by semperfortis


You said that pro was wasting their breath commenting that racism cuts both ways and I quoted myself to show that I had indeed commented on that fact.

Are you saying that the racism blacks have experienced is not a source of racism towards whites?

Shirley you jest.

You keep dismissing what I say as my opinion as an excuse to not have a serious debate on the issue.

And Semper that is very annoying. I do not treat you that way.

What has happened with you? It used to be that you and I could disagree and still be respectful, but you have become so strident that even your avatars have come to reflect a new belligerency, a new belligerency that is not very becoming.

Where is the gentleman Semper?



[edit on 26-9-2007 by grover]

Still the Gentleman Grover

Just real tired of beating a dead horse around..

The past few months I have been really busy here in the debates. Besides the research, I learned a very valuable lesson, FACTS...

Everything else, ie. The majority of what is posted, is only so much white wash and useless to the extreme, UNLESS the poster is clear in that it is simply an opinion and not meant to be more.

On this thread and a few others, there is an increased propensity to STATE ones opinion and have us all accept it as a FACT

That my friend is a waste of my time

Particularly in the case of the Jena 6, emotions run high and those same emotions are detrimental to a solid discussion of the issues... I have witnessed here posters bringing up FAR distant instances of racial prejudice to justify or account for what happened in Jena that day.
The truly AMAZING thing is that they REALLY believe this to be a valuable argument...

ABSOLUTELY no point in posting against that. Especially with my style of posting. I research and support my statements and NEVER expect them to be taken as fact without the research...A lesson I learned the HARD way here on ATS, and not without my mistakes..

As a point of fact my friend, you will find that on this particular thread, ALL I did was post external FACTS in reference to the Jena 6 and NEVER once posted my opinion in regards to the OP...

What was the result?

A constant barrage of opinion in response to factual references...

Sorry about the long winded post, BUT

You asked me....

Semper