France says it must prepare for possible war with Iran

Originally posted by djohnsto77

Originally posted by Daedalus3
and then you have Angela Merkel.. be not surprised if Germany comes up with a similar declaration in the near future.

Germany has already reportedly said that they prefer military action against Iran over further sanctions.

Not really, Angela Merkel refuses to support the imposition of any further sanctions against Iran that could be imposed by the U.N. Security Council.

The Germans voiced concern about the damaging effects any further sanctions on Iran would have on the German economy — and also, according to diplomats from other countries, gave the distinct impression that they would privately welcome, while publicly protesting, an American bombing campaign against Iran's nuclear facilities

source fox news
I dont think they prefer military action, at the most they supply and assist Israel where they can..[funny how history could change]


2 Dallas
Why should Canada increase their military budget? The Artic in the far future?
I've always seen that country as a respectable peacefull nation with prudent foreign policy, never agressive but always ready to assist and protect its allies[It where mostly the Canadians who liberated my country in ' 45]. I hope you' ve learned from the more agressive approach of the US and vice versa they've learned from the more prudent approach of Canada..

i must say this is a turning point in frenc/american history, since the Gaulle France was mostly a pain in the american ass[all though they've been military allies in important wars apart from france break-up with NATO] I think Sarkozy and Bush could be good friends, i hope the German French relation dont deteriorate from this, for this helps a stable EU]

btw people who still doubt about Iran nuclear weapons prgramm, if you've build 3000 centrifuges and still want 52.000 in the near future, it would be a "little" to much for just enriching for energy purposes..


[edit on 17-9-2007 by Foppezao]

WOW, this is an interesting conversation. I think the main issue is that everyone thinks there crap doesn't stink. This being said, all the governments of the world have some sort of corruption to it. Realistically, its this corruption that keeps the Radical Left and Right in line. There kinda the balancing force.

There was a statement that there was tons of money to be made by going to war, additionally there was another that said, we spent a Tonne on the war. You are both correct. The money to be made are made by the ones that have connections. This has always been the case, and will continue to be. That was Ford, and GM back in WW2, as an example, and haliburton today. As far as money being spent, Wars always wind up being payed for by those who can't afford it. The populace of the nation. The treaty of Versailles caused the German people to be taxed enormously, as a result, they were disgusted, and disenfranchised. This gave rise to nationalism, which eventually became the NAZI party. On todays note, who exactly is paying for IRAQ, since by all rights an American war, Americans are paying for it, to the sum of 2 Billion a day.

This leads me into the next statement, the imperilstic attitudes of nations. ALL nations have delusions of granduere. All want to be treated as if there the Elite. I for one would love to have 4 servants, and a million dollar home. Anyone would. This being said, in order to get this, the easiest way is to trump the rights, and equality of minoritys. The americans did this will the indians, spanish, and negroes, just as the British did this with the Chinese, and the Indians. France took its turn in African and South Asia. Bottom line, all nations have imperialist views, its the easiest way to get what you want, which is money, and power.

Too the topic, France is increasing rhetoric to push Iran to comply. Somebody mention the Oil cartel, OPEC, and that the USA is basically pushing a Nuclear Cartel. I agree whole heartedly, why then did the USA give India assistance, when it hasn't signed the NPT? This is just another example the the U.S. and its alliances attempt to control world power. Maybe they'll succeed maybe they won't. It doesn't really matter. Just like there has always been a world power, that world power will always crumble. Be it, Persia, Greece, Rome, HRE, France, Spain, England, Germany, USA, or who every the next empire will be.

Regards,
Camain

Originally posted by Foppezao
people who still doubt about Iran nuclear weapons prgramm, if you've build 3000 centrifuges and still want 52.000 in the near future, it would be a "little" to much for just enriching for energy purposes

I'm still with the idea that the additional enrichment capacity would make for a very viable income to run in tandem with oil and gas energy-export revenues

Originally posted by djohnsto77
Well I for one am not surprised at all that France is starting to come around on the issue of Iran. Iran already has or is very close to having missiles that could carry nuclear weapons all the way to Paris. If they would get such weapons, the risk to France and French cultural would no longer be theoretical.

I am going to stop feeding the trolls now, but I got about 12 comments. Way to go guys, that was too easy.

You are one of the very few on this thread that realizes what is happening. Iran has missiles with a range from Moscow to all of western Europe. They are building one that will put the eastern USA under range as far west as Atlanta Georgia. Notice I didn't mention China, they are within range, but China is Iran's big brother right now.

Back in the good old day when only Russia and the USA had nukes, MAD worked. You could count on if they struck, we would strike back; or for you USA lovers, if we struck first, they would strike back. Regardless, both were losers in very large ways.

When China developed their missiles, it was still manageable and they understood the MAD system. Great Britain and France developed their own nukes and have handled them very responsible by being active members of NATO.

Now, more countries have been added and the MAD scenario only works with overwhelming threat of total destruction. Iran does not bring this to the table. The country has a recent history of supporting terror groups or even having state sponsored terrorism. This action and nuclear capability does not work well. The leadership of the country has made outrageous statements but has no means of backing them, up to now.

France has it's own cultural issues going on as we speak with mass migration of people usually not thought of as French let alone Europeans. They are a struggling country trying to handle this, much as America is with it's immigration policy of non-enforcement.

What does this have to do with Iran. As the French people of non-French descent gains more political power, the government may shift to a position of isolationism or be neutral in middle east matters. The current administration has only a limited open window of time. Iran is still not a nuclear member nor does the current French government have a strong middle east support base.

im no Zionist......but.....i think the french, english, germans, swedish, spanish, italians are getting fedup with the creeping islamisation going on in europe that may become a serios threat to internal polatics, i dont think any of the mentioned countrys like the idea of becoming a new islamic state. so i think the french are serios about bombing iran
if europe does nothing about its current creeping islamisation problem its fast breeding muslim population will breed europe into a new arab state with shariah law. so will europe go to war ????, oh i think so. war may even provide an excuse to make ethinic cleansing popular.
lets face it. as yet i have never seen a muslim in a host country that wants to be part of that country, all ive ever seen is islands of islam in host countrys its like oil & water they dont mix. all i see is little islands of islam trying to convert the host country to be islamic in any way posible. to day on the radio in london there are churches here now alarmed at islamic books in our librarys in london that encourage violence against none believers & infidels.
i dont like the idea of ethnic cleansing but in the uk i support bombing iran back to the dark ages & also support the removal of islam from the uk & europe, cause unless europe adopts the same breeding levels as muslims [4 wives all producing babys all the time], then the western population will in time be outbreed in there own countrys !!!. if you have a better anser to this creeping islamisation problem let me know.
so in a nut shell yes bomb iran & cause a world religios war & reduce the global population.

Originally posted by camain
WOW, this is an interesting conversation. I think the main issue is that everyone thinks there crap doesn't stink. This being said, all the governments of the world have some sort of corruption to it. Realistically, its this corruption that keeps the Radical Left and Right in line. There kinda the balancing force.

There was a statement that there was tons of money to be made by going to war, additionally there was another that said, we spent a Tonne on the war. You are both correct. The money to be made are made by the ones that have connections. This has always been the case, and will continue to be. That was Ford, and GM back in WW2, as an example, and haliburton today. As far as money being spent, Wars always wind up being payed for by those who can't afford it. The populace of the nation. The treaty of Versailles caused the German people to be taxed enormously, as a result, they were disgusted, and disenfranchised. This gave rise to nationalism, which eventually became the NAZI party. On todays note, who exactly is paying for IRAQ, since by all rights an American war, Americans are paying for it, to the sum of 2 Billion a day.

This leads me into the next statement, the imperilstic attitudes of nations. ALL nations have delusions of granduere. All want to be treated as if there the Elite. I for one would love to have 4 servants, and a million dollar home. Anyone would. This being said, in order to get this, the easiest way is to trump the rights, and equality of minoritys. The americans did this will the indians, spanish, and negroes, just as the British did this with the Chinese, and the Indians. France took its turn in African and South Asia. Bottom line, all nations have imperialist views, its the easiest way to get what you want, which is money, and power.

Too the topic, France is increasing rhetoric to push Iran to comply. Somebody mention the Oil cartel, OPEC, and that the USA is basically pushing a Nuclear Cartel. I agree whole heartedly, why then did the USA give India assistance, when it hasn't signed the NPT? This is just another example the the U.S. and its alliances attempt to control world power. Maybe they'll succeed maybe they won't. It doesn't really matter. Just like there has always been a world power, that world power will always crumble. Be it, Persia, Greece, Rome, HRE, France, Spain, England, Germany, USA, or who every the next empire will be.

Regards,
Camain

I agree with you on the nuclear cartel, i've just seen a book in stores about US hegemony based on their nuclear weapons since WW2. Not only about the presence of the weapons and the threat of it but also in some sense about the energy[all though lots of countries have these power plants]..With Pakistan and India we still have MAD, with Israel vs Iran you also have MAD..But i think since North Korea made nuclear weapons the proliferation has shifted from governmental to non-governmental organisations, same story with Iran..Thats the big threat being attacked by a nuke, and the only thing you know is what kind of yield it had not really knowing where it came from..

[

2 Dallas
Why should Canada increase their military budget? The Artic in the far future?
I've always seen that country as a respectable peacefull nation with prudent foreign policy, never agressive but always ready to assist and protect its allies[It where mostly the Canadians who liberated my country in ' 45]. I hope you' ve learned from the more agressive approach of the US and vice versa they've learned from the more prudent approach of Canada..

i must say this is a turning point in frenc/american history, since the Gaulle France was mostly a pain in the american ass[all though they've been military allies in important wars apart from france break-up with NATO] I think Sarkozy and Bush could be good friends, i hope the German French relation dont deteriorate from this, for this helps a stable EU]

btw people who still doubt about Iran nuclear weapons prgramm, if you've build 3000 centrifuges and still want 52.000 in the near future, it would be a "little" to much for just enriching for energy purposes..

[edit on 17-9-2007 by Foppezao]

_____________

Hey Foppezao.

Canada's military relies on the Cdn government's reliance on the USA's military might. That alone is reason enough to strengthen all aspects of Canada's military. But my primary thought was Defence of the NWT and north of there against other military mights quite capable of just marching in and claiming Canadian resources.

Yes Canada's a peaceful Country and dedicated to it's commitment under NATO.
But we are living in or moving toward a different era and what was OK fifteen years ago may not be OK today and especially tomorrow.

Canada cannot rely on some other Countries to handle extreme threats to Canada, when those Countries, themselves are under threat and may someday have to face a whole new reality of their own.

Dallas

France is surprising me more and more often lately.I think their looking down the road and saying"we're in".I too dont think the iranians will be giving up their atomic weapons dream voluntarily.

Originally posted by Dallas

I believe we would be in a completely different type of world if not for the USA. I'm sure France would be too. Though 'freedom' is becoming more of a catch word than reality, at least the 'free world' isn't under a Nazi dictatorship who's capability to remove races may have been used to remove Countries deemed resistant to their twisted world rule.

There's only three letters need be written and thanked for saving this ball from oppression, Thanks you, USA.

Dallas

Predominantly, it was the Soviets who saved the world from Nazi dictatorship, not the USA.


Compared to The Eastern Front, all else was a sideshow, even when taken into consideration of the other fronts and the sacrifices there, 20 million plus Soviets lost their lives.


The Soviets lost alot of people to put it lightly, and still won.


If the Soviets had not been forced into the war, I doubt the other allies would have fared so well in WWII.


You want us to write a letter to the USA, thanking them for saving the world from oppression?


Okay, I'll dabble.



Dear USA,


Thankyou for enforcing your will by threat, bribe, or violence upon the world.


Thankyou for establishing and/or supporting Fascist dictatorships across the world, including that of the ever so charming Argentine military dictatorship, who stole children away from mothers, before having the mothers beaten, raped, and killed..


Thankyou for supporting death squads in Latin America which killed civillians indiscriminately.


Thankyou for supporting Saddam Hussein in the 70's and 80's, and for arming him (send my dearest thanks to Donald Rumsfeld will you?) with weapons to kill Iranians, Iraqis and Kurds with.


Thankyou for invading Iraq for oil and geopolitical positioning and trashing the country.



Thankyou for getting rid of Nazism in order to replace it with NeoConism to impose American Imperialism upon the rest of the world.


With all the good you've done in the world by your imposing of your will upon it (SHOCK AND AWE, BABY!) you must be wondering like I, why the rest of the world fears and despises you and why terrorism has a stronger recruitment drive.



Kindest regards to Georgie Bush and Cheney and Co,


Thankyou USA,


Regensturm






[edit on 17-9-2007 by Regensturm]

"If the Soviets had not been forced into the war, I doubt the other allies would have fared so well in WWII. "

And vica-versa.


"You want us to write a letter to the USA, thanking them for saving the world from oppression?"

Smart guy -- not necessary.
Who's "us"? Are you speaking for other countries, people, yourself or all three?

Do yourself a favor dude, keep the smart cracks out of the responses.

Dallas

Whats amazing me is that here, in europe, there is NOTHING in the media about France and this Iran War claim. Very strange that such news is big in USA but not in Europe since we are european allied forces.

reply to post by Xfile


I agree with you in that France might just be looking down the road and wanting in on standing very firm against Iran. As Foppezao mentioned, France left the military support role in NATO. I believe that was around 1966.

But I'm not sure if that means NATO support for any attack upon France can only be humanitarian or if NATO would be compelled to act? Perhap's France might reprise their Military role in NATO soon?

Dallas

Originally posted by Dallas

And vica-versa.

I would not not be too sure of that if I were you.

Originally posted by Dallas

Smart guy -- not necessary.
Who's "us"? Are you speaking for other countries, people, yourself or all three?

You are no doubt a person who thinks your country is owed a living and should have people and nation subserviant to it because


"The USA saved your ass"


Well I'm sorry, but it's not true, and in fact the US is not the beacon of democracy, nor the savior of it, hate to burst your bubble.

Originally posted by DallasDo yourself a favor dude, keep the smart cracks out of the responses.

Dallas

Do yourself a favour mate, inform and educate yourself about the reality of the world before posting your own responses.


Either wake up or sleep on.

Originally posted by BitRaiser

Originally posted by themaster1
But honestly, what did Iran do to try to solve this somewhat thorny problem regarding (possible) nuclear weapons development[?]

Actually, they did quite a lot.


If you go over the factual record, Iran went to extraordinary lengths to attempt to ensure there was international trust in it's program. They agreed to inspections and requirements that were not applied to any other member of the NPT. They voluntarily suspended their enrichment program, even though it is NOT a requirement under the NPT. Germany, France, the UK, and Russia were all partners in building their program.

Iran has been an outspoken advocate of complete nuclear disarmament in the middle east since 1979!

Right i remember this episode, they allowed the inspectors to do their job, nothing special has been noticed hence their nice attitude : "we were friendly enough, now get out of the country you have 3 days"...to quickly sum this up

Nice attitude (clap, clap)

Nobody demonize Iran man except maybe U.S media outlets, the truth is they don't cooperate anymore and that is unacceptable.

They wanna build up nuclear centrals? Fine then why don't they do it the right way?!All they do is putting themselves in the hole deeper & deeper, period.

I recognize there might are interests involved, finanficially speaking, but in my point of view this is second to none at this point especially when you are aware that developping centrals cost you more than it bring money back to you.

theMaster

Iran says France stoking crisis with war talk

news.yahoo.com...;_ylt=Aj1JFl.ocuG6JIZEq3j9rues0NUE

reply to post by Regensturm


I'm SO f-ing sick of every current discussion turning into a who saved who's ass in WWII. NONE of us know what the outcome would have been if ANY little variable had been different. Stop trying to pretend you do. Everybody did their part, and everybody who fought in that war deserves credit. And as low down and greedy as this administration is, you just look ignorant trying to compare my country to Nazi Germany. Great Britain was JUST as imperialistic and took over MANY countries in their day. Get over yourself, I for one couldn't care less what YOU or others think about us, you're completely wrong and you'd find we probably share the same views of Bush and Co., if you wouldn't put us on the defense first that is.

[edit on 17-9-2007 by 27jd]

reply to post by RedGolem


You can easily be Christian and be zionist.

reply to post by 27jd


I agree with you, Every major power in the world has its history in imperialism. I'm just glad my country is the one in power . I hope it stays that way till I die, and my children die. That being said, after the fall of Every great civilisation/empire, there has been a form of choas. Its kinda like washing a chalkboard to start everything out fresh. Although I don't agree with alot of the stuff that america does, better for the CIA, to do it in someone elses country, then for it to be done in mine. Thats the sad fact of it. Everyone wants there castles, and there servants, but they never realise that in order to have it, you have to make slaves elsewhere. Thats exactly what imperilism does. Thats how Americans can buy gas for 3-4% of our average income vs 20-30% or more in some nations. Additionally, thats why are food is cheaper, and the products that we import are cheaper. Its all Fuedalism. Its just that people haven't figured out there nobility yet. Everyone is a hypocrite, including myself. People whine about how this, that or another is unfair, oh, the poor unfortunate poor. The underprivedge, its just not right. Well, got news for you, its never going to be right. If the U.S. isn't doing it to them, there own leaders will, and if not them, then someone else. The Poor will always be the poor, and the helpless the same. As long as people act like sheep, then they'll be herded up and slaughtered, or fleeced when the time is right.

Regards,

Camain

Camain

I am tired of every excahnge on the internet, regardless of subject ending up with "we hate Americans". I am also tired of clueless responses from Americans who seem to be only able to reply with half baked ideas that "America won WW dah dee dah so you commies should straighten up and fly right" I am not American, I am British so I understand the failings that your nation has being laid at your door for the next 500 years until your empire and means of oppression has fallen back into the history books like ours have.

Fact: The only winners (regardless of country / politics) to war is the businesses that make munitions. These are paid for either by taxes from your pocket or by 'reparations' placed against a defeated nation. Usually people wake up to the misery of war and negotiate but this only depends on the amount of unfavourable media given to electorates who can then push politicians to action. Imagine a see-saw with politicians in the middle and the electorate on one side and big business on the other. The only way to counter business is to throw your weight behid the political process.

Sorry - Off topic and I need some sleep

My apologies for this off topic post but I think it's important. I was in a bar after work today, that's not news , and I heard this story on CNN. This was on ATS a full day before it was on CNN. Kudos to the great membership here at ATS.

Edit to add: This is by far not the first time I've noticed this.

[edit on 17-9-2007 by intrepid]