Judge says: ALL UK people Must be on DNA Database

reply to post by Rahul Buttar


You know the only thing missing from your rant was the background music playing the Star spangled banner and you waving a flag.
It would seem youknow little about the UK.
"Theyve taken away your right to Revolution"
Good God man you dont need permission to have a revolution you just do it.
How many revolutions have you had in your crazy mixed up, gun toting, schoolchildren shooting, chest beating, rah rah country?
Well weve had an awfull lot here in good old England and we can deal happily with anyone setting themselves up as dictator or tyrant that we dont want. We can also defend ourselves against stupid laws if we so wish, we arent bloody stupid you know
Weve thrown out Governments and hounded prime ministers into resignation, we even chopped a Kings head off, so Ill thank you to stop telling us how we can protect our kith, kin and country.
Whilst Im not throwing a party over DNA suggestions, it isnt at all a bad thing.

There, Ive seen red and now Im going to have a cup of tea.
Some Americans?????? I give up

Rahul Buttar wrote
There is no way to guarantee that such a system would not be abused. And given human nature, it is almost a sure thing that it would. The ones running your government are not holy men, they are human beings equally as fallible as you and I. Since the beginning of history power has corrupted men who seek it. One only has to look at the past century to see the danger in conceding our freedoms to our rulers. Less than seventy years ago the world was overshadowed by the growing threat of totalitarianism. Germany adopted a fascist political system and attempted to conquer and subjugate the rest of the globe. In Russia the same thing happened only they called it by a different name.

And the same justification was used then as it is now (security). It seems we still haven't learned from history.

Well said Rauhl what you say is true because it's written up in our history books as fact. It's nice to know that atleast some people have learnt from what went on in the past. and see the similarities of what's happening today.

Chorlton I dont understand why your getting so hot under the collar. Rauhl is stating facts written up in our history books. Have you read about the rise of fascism in Germany?

homepage.mac.com...

Originally posted by kindred

Chorlton I dont understand why your getting so hot under the collar. Rauhl is stating facts written up in our history books. Have you read about the rise of fascism in Germany?

What Rahul posted was flag waving US centric bravado. It bore no resemblance to what happens or what is happening in the UK.

Please leave it alone with the fascism rubbish too. If you dont understand the history of the UK (and looking at this and other posts you have made leads me to believe you dont) then you really need to do some serious reading, and not about fascism.

Originally posted by Vitchilo
Not only that but also

He said the only option was to expand the database to cover the whole population and all those who visit the UK.

I already despised UK for his police state mesures, now it's sure, I won't go anywhere near the NWO HQ. No wonder why a lot of british are leaving... And stutmason, I guess you will say that it's not a police state mesure right?

Police state! Jesus you really have no idea. Where on earth do you pick up these things from? I live here and if anything the police presence is simply not enough. It is even totally non existent in vast areas of the country and that includes large towns like the one I live in. The only time I see police is when I walk past the station near the town centre, but only occasionally even then, the front desk isn't even manned all time you have to ring the buzzer! I've been to many countries including the US and the UK police is the most sedate of the lot!

As for the DNA thing well first something to clear up. DNA is taken form innocent people as part of an elimination process. In England the record is held on file, in Scotland (still the UK) the record is deleted. Just to be confusing to people who think UK=England (!).

Now I'm not sure what to make of DNA testing everybody. The thing is, would a criminal NOT use modern techniques to commit a crime becasue of the potential civil liberty infringements! I think the answer to that is a resounding no. So we have a problem. The old methods of detecting who committed a crime based on evidence is becoming increasingly difficult as people learn how to avoid detection and commit crimes remotely. Here's a fact : the most common crime committed for which nobody is ever caught is the one-off. No MO, no repeated evidence. There's also another problem we have in that for terrorist actions the "first" crime results in the death of the perpetrator. So it's kind of tricky to catch them and protect the public!

With DNA on everybody to cross reference even the one-off crimes becoming much more solvable. The DNA from the bomb making factory will identify the bomber before he/she explodes.

One last point that my friend would make: In hospitals when tissue matching is required for a childs illness in 30% of the cases the "father" is not the biological father and he didn't even know. DNA testing at birth would go some way to righting this wrong.

On the other hand it does seem like Big Brother. So I'm currently 50:50.

I can't see this one flying tbh.
Already the Scottish Government has ruled out a blanket DNA database in Scotland, where the rules on DNA retention are significantly different to those in England & Wales.
So unless the British government wishes to provoke a serious constitutional issue, with the Westminster & Edinburgh Parliaments each insisting on different policies, this DNA retention proposal - originating from a judge in England & Wales - just isn't going anywhere.

news.bbc.co.uk...

Yay for Home Rule !

Originally posted by citizen smith
Similarly, if a foriegn national waives the request, they will only able to obtain a limited visa barring all access to any UK public facilities for the duration of the stay

I am not buying into that. Barring them from access to public facilities would be the same as committing sucide for their tourist industry and they are not going to turn away those kinds of bucks. :shk:

F**k you Judge!! The only DNA you're getting of me is when I piss on your old head!!

DNA, TESTING THE FUTURE

Individuals arrested and imprisoned due to errors in the system.

Health care denied to those with heridiary disease.

People denied insurance for same.

Individiduals denied everything for known family criminal traits.

Ethnic groups targeted for disposal.

Undesirables targeted for disposal.

Sorry I was being negative there, in this peace loving, trusting world there is no need for such paranoia is there. I'm sorry but this is all like saying if we put ourselves inside a prison we will be safe and nothing will go wrong, well untill we evolve further there will be plenty to go wrong, just think what our corporate masters could do with such knowledge.

Well to all those who believe in the benefits of a national DNA database, ID cards etc whereby we are all considered potential criminals. That's your prerogative. I'm no criminal and will not tolerate the indignity of being treated like one. The document the Magna carta - the foundation of the British constitution clearly states we are all innocent until proven guilty. Therefore I will not be giving up my DNA to a government composed of control freaks who have proven that they can not be trusted and are so obsessed with turning this country into a nanny or police state.

The most important of all is the concept of habeas corpus enshrined in the Magna Carta - that we are all entitled to a fair trial and that we are innocent until proved guilty in a court of law. Judge Smedley's DNA database turns this on its head, for it treats every citizen of this country with the presumption of guilt.

We have evolved in this country a belief that the British - cussed, stand- offish and awkward - should nurture their freedom and do not need a nanny state to interfere in every bit of their business.

Throughout the 20th century, there were other states in the world - Stalin's Russia, Mao's China, Hitler's Germany - which thought it was all right to treat their citizens like slaves and automatons.

Britain was different. I was going to write that it still is different, but these two bleak little stories make me wonder.

It is surely fundamental to any law of liberty that if we have not done anything wrong, we should not be compelled to reveal our identity, to offer samples of blood, urine or DNA to the authorities merely because they want it.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

[edit on 6-9-2007 by kindred]

I had sworn off involving myself with this site, let alone posting anymore, long ago because of the puerile and ignorant garbage that had come to predominate the postings here. Like a moth to a flame, however, I find myself posting once again on a specific topic that particularly grabs my attention.

The UK is already the most CCTV - observed society in the world, arguably to little avail (no charges pending in Liverpool for the recent murder of Rhys, despite cameras being present.....the police are apparently impotent). What exactly will a nation - wide DNA database of residents as well as visitors accomplish? Make the entire nation and visitors from around the world a suspect pool for every crime committed?

At least in the USA, a scheme such as this would invoke outrage and probably be scuttled as both unthinkable as well as unconstitutional before it even got very far. It boggles the mind that in the land of the Magna Carta a written Constitution is still nonexistent and such an abominable concept could even be seriously considered.

The BBC recently reported that record numbers of Brits were emigrating. Based on this sort of thing I can't say I'm surprised.

Originally posted by Rahul Buttar
Without an armed and free citizenry a democracy is just a few scraps of paper. There is nothing to stop your government from enslaving you. You have knives and rocks with which to fight soldiers wielding rifles. What could you do if they came to take you away right now? Run? There are cameras on every street corner. They would soon find you.

Democracy is never more than "a few scraps of paper", (and in the case of the UK you may even choose to argue that we don't have that). Democracy is a political concept, defined in a myriad of different forms, an act of faith on the part of the people who are, after all, also the Government in most accepted forms of the principle. If you believe that the only way to preserve that faith is through a threat of violence by an unrepresentative body then you have a serious problem with the underpinnings of your democracy.

The point is that the "band of armed civilians" is in itself undemocratic, how can it be anything else, how will you ever differentiate between the plucky fighters preserving the rights of a free population and a band of self opinionated thugs demanding respect through force of arms? The only way that dichotomy can be resolved is through government, (with a small "g"). That is to say, government by the people, for the people, and equally importantly but often forgotten, OF the people.

If They came to take me away right now then I have to accept that They would probably take me, once again I must have faith that our system of government and rule of law will ultimately protect me from most excesses and after all it may well be that by taking me away they are quite legitimately protecting others from me; and what would you do as part of the armed and free citizenry if the police come and knock on your door this evening, will you break out the AK47 and start shooting? I doubt it in all honesty, (an entirely unfounded act of speculation I grant you), and if you did I would just pray that you didn't live next door to me.

I sometimes fear that the USA clings to it's constitution to the point of distraction seemingly unable to recognise that what was good or practical two hundred years ago may not be appropriate in a very different world today.

Wasn't the British army the best in the world when a "band of armed civilians" overthrew England's rule and founded The United States of America?

Arguably true with the exception of the rather naive description of the colonial armies as a "band of armed civilians", but the art and machinery of warfare have changed more than a little since then and, even so, just how successful would they have been without the aid of what was probably the second best army and second most powerful economy in the world at the time?




[edit on 7-9-2007 by timeless test]

Sigh......

Once again I read stuff like "the UK is the most survielled country in the world", and then "and yet the police still haven't been able to...."

Do you people not listen? Do certain concepts pass you by? When the British posters here are telling you that 90% of the cameras that get referred to by various sites on the net are privately owned and that the police need a judicial warrant to access any recordings taken by the privately owned cameras unless the information is passed on freely to them, why can you not understand that? Its not a difficult concept to grasp. The only reason that it seems to get persisted with is that it suits some peoples personal paranoid agenda's.

As for this thread - christ..... a single judge, just one, gave his opinion on a DNA database.

Judges in the UK do not make the law in any, way shape or form. Parliament does, with referral to a whole slew of barristers, consultation groups, the Crown prosecution service and the judiciary system. One single person cannot invoke something at all. And even if such a thing came to parliament to be passed into statute law the chances are that it would not stand up to a challenge in the EU courts under Human Rights grounds.

The title of this thread is STILL misleading, because the actual story is "Single UK judge gives his opinion on the use of DNA databases". I'm sorry Chorlton, but all you've done with sensationalising the title is give people a chance to type rubbish.

[edit on 7/0907/07 by neformore]

[edit on 7/0907/07 by neformore]

[edit on 7/0907/07 by neformore]

Hi all, seems to me the writings on the wall and it's just a matter of time before DNA of all citizens in Britain and others Countries such as Canada, France, Russia and Germany will happen.

DNA privately held by national law enforcement of any Country is a proactive means to help protect it's people and a fast way in some cases to identify and broadcast potential suspects eg Photo, Description and creed.
So 'evil doers' watch out as some of your cloaked nastiness may become susceptible to becoming uncloaked. And if the evil doer set's off a blast (accidentally) destroying him/her self it perhaps their termination can be confirmed.

Dallas

Well atleast we wont have to worry about chip implants anytime soon. Studies done in the lab show they cause cancer.

www.louisville-pets.com...
blog.wired.com...

The judge is right. He wants a fair and equal system. Not a partial database.

I agree with him totally, if there is to be a database of any sort, it must be all inclusive.

Looks like the New World Order didn't count on so many people waking up to there plans, which means there pushing all the evil schemes through as quickly as possible.

I live in the U.K. police presence is ridiculous now, but the problem is they are not protecting the people they intimidating the innocents.

I mean a woman was taken to court for being caught by an "enforcement officer" on train for putting her feet up on the seat.

www.timesonline.co.uk...

DNA - No Way

People in favour of this ridiculous measure need to spend some time researching what they are being told.
Security? Give me a break! Video cameras everywhere, Biometric ID and DNA databases do not prevent crime, nor do the Police. They are all there to react to crime, after the event as investigative tools. Having them all in place will not make you safer at all from those who would do you harm. Having been a victim of crime I can speak from bitter experience about the usefulness of the "system", and believe me, it does nothing to protect you. What does work is members of the public acting together to hand out justice and make it clear to the bad guys that their acts will not be tolerated. Of course, such acts are frowned upon by those in Authority as it not only undermines their authority but also shows how ineffective they are which is why Joe Public get's arrested for protecting himself and his property so often. They like to have us fearful of not only the bad guys but but those we are told are there to protect us as well, should we be so bold as to fight back.
The government fears the people more than anything. If their shenanigans were open to public scrutiny we'd be running them out of town (at the very least), so it's best to have us all catalogued, labelled and cowed, fearful of the law as much as the criminals.
If the public start thinking and acting for themselves then the show's over

Of course there will be get out of jail free cards for politicians. VIPs, celebrities their families etc and not to mention the biggie excuse...."its against my religious beliefs".
So at the end of the day...it'll only be Anglo-Saxons on the database as they will be the only ones without a credible card to pull out to exempt them.

Its how these things always work.

[edit on 9-9-2007 by Flighty]

This Is No Suprise too me. Unfortunatly They Already Have The Data Base, And Have HAd It For Some Time Now. Every Criminal Record Now Uses A DNA Tracing System. The Fact That They Want To Registar EveryOne To It Would Only Be Effective To Catch Criminals. Thus The Only Acceptable Data Base Would Be For Known Offenders. Maybe If The Visionaries Of The One World Goverment Try, They Could Force Everyone To Registar. But They Have No Chance, Thus They Would Do As They Always Have Done. They Act Out In The Shadows, Trying To Stay Out Of The Sight Of Influencing It. There Has Been A One World Goverment For Decades, But We Just Dont Know It, For The Fact That Were Not Told.

In Order To Make Sure Your DNA IS Not Used And Abused, IS To Make Sure You Question The Hospitals, And Any Other Known Medical Facility. Make Sure They Dont Lie About Where You Medical Records Are Used. The Sad Fact IS, If You Dont Want These People To Abuse Your Human Rights, Them Dont Use The Facilities They Provide. IM Also Wondering, Do They Facilities Have A Terms And Conditions Contract That States Where Your Medical Records Are Used Or Recorded.

Once Your On Any Type Of Data Base, They Believe They Own You. Thus Bound By Any New Law That You Cant Refuse. Anyway You Look At It, Were All Being Manipulated To Believe Weve Got A Good Thing, They Will Tell You The Benifits And Very Quietly Explain What Your Giving Up. Maybe That Fact Is In The End They Want Your Free Will, Not Noting To Us That They Already Control Most Of The Things Were Entitled to.

If A National DNA Data Base Is Used, They Will Have Access To The Abilities Of Manipulating The DNA Of Every Known Living Thing. Not That They Dont Already.

Their Secrets Will Be Known.

1. Did You Know That, Thay Have Already Manipulated A Few Known Mono Carbons In The Human Helix, Thus If They Brake Down Our DNA Molecules, We Will Be Left At The Mercy OF Science, And Not Our Natural Biology. Our Bodies Have Everything We Need. We Just Need To Stop Replacing Our DNA With Other Artifitial Molecules.

2. They've Had The Technology For Years, Manipulating The DNA Of African Beez, And Such As It IS, Killer Bees. We Give Up So Much To Science That We Lose Control Of Our Freedom. We Become Scared That Only Science CAn Help Us. But If We Leave It Alone Just As Suposed Eveolution Teaches. We Will Recognise The Facts That Evolution Did Not Create Science, Science Created Evolution.

3. The Human Imortal Project. For About 60 Years Now Scientists In Area 51 Have Been Researching Some Very Rare Plants, The Ones They Created That Is. They Seem To Believe They Are Allowed To Create The Tree Of Life. In Reflection Of This They Also Create Trees That Cause Other Plants To Die.

I Will Be Back With More Later. Having Dinner Now