Can we agree on at least one alien/ufo video that could be real?

Originally posted by Dulcimer
That depends on your definition of "real".

The Phoenix lights footage is real, but there is debate on what the objects are.

If your definition of real is alien life piloting spacecraft, I don't think we can say any video is real. We have never seen a video that shows us the occupants.

Exactly. This is the big problem with this topic. I believe for other reasons but the actual answer will never come until a ship lands and beings get out and greet the people of the planet.

Most of the objects in the videos for 'UFOs' are real. Like Dulcimer says, does it mean that other worldly beings are piloting them? Not until we see otherwise.

Originally posted by carewemust
GottaGo, I really want to believe that the streaking objects are alien craft, but my internal voice is saying that they are particles/debris which were caught in the Earth's gravity well and accelerated inward. I've looked at the video many times today in full-screen and just can't imagine that many intelligent craft coming for a visit in under 3 minutes. Besides, I never see much activity LEAVING Earth. With this many arrivals and no departures, you'd have lots of videos shot everyday by citizens all over the planet. Besides, if these aren't meteors, what would meteors skirting the Earth's atmosphere look like on one of these Space Shuttle videos? I gotta admit though that the two traveling together near the beginning of the clip are amazing. They are about the same size and are traveling side-by-side perfectly. -cwm

Yes, nifty little display of precision-flying by those meteorites

There is a faint one leaving earth roughly horizontally and to the left at about 1:05. Between 2:04 and 2:28, when the camera zooms out, you can see various objects tracking in low orbits, most going to the left.

You are noting the "floaters" as well I hope. The slow-moving objects, and the ones that simply appear out of nowhere on-screen from time to time, brightness dimming, and drift into a static orbit are by far the most important evidence and even more amazing. (They appear in other STS videos as well.) And also all the static objects hovering in front of earth--again you must understand that this means they are between earth and the Shuttle. They can't possibly be stars.

As for what they all are--and it's clear that there must be at least a hundred of them caught on the video--IMO they are both structured craft (few) and living entities (predominantly) inhabiting near space. Plasma life-forms, as they are caught by the Shuttle's UV cameras in various STS missions and are particularly attracted to electromagnetic events--the ionized tether and terrestrial thunderstorms are two good examples. They're hungry and looking for dinner.

Sounds nuts I know. But there it is; try to explain it. The evidence of the STS video footage makes it clear that near-earth space is teeming with something, and the STS UV video cameras was a DoD initiative. Neither they nor NASA is about to tell us what they think they are, so this is my best explanation of the phenomena.

so many sceptics about the phoenix lights....maybe couse theyr afraid they cant give a logical answer?
so patroling military planes?why didnt they sayd that?
how about flares?so who drops 5 flares at the middle in the night on top of a city?why didnt they telled anything?
how about weather baloons?so 5 ballons in the city by night?whats that a parade or sometin
hoe about optical ilusion...o cmonn seeing mickey mouse is optical ilusion[:

[edit on 29/3/07 by Unisol]

Originally posted by David2012
Here's a pretty old photograph

What I know about it:

It was taken on the Ward sawmill in Slideward, colorado in 1929!

Ohhhh, it was at a sawmill huh?? The sawing machine had a malfunction and threw several saw blades up in the sky as a photograph was being taken...

LOL
just showing how some skeptical minds work... and I thought it was kind of a 'funny funny' to throw in.... just to lighten things a bit...

(no, I don't think they are saw blades).

hahahah now thats just smart aaand sceptical
next....someone telling that an ufo was just a birthday cake thrown at the sky

Originally posted by torsion

Originally posted by David2012
Here's a pretty old photograph

What I know about it:

It was taken on the Ward sawmill in Slideward, colorado in 1929!

Good picture and one I've never seen before.

Is there any provenance attached to it? Has anyone seen the original photo?

I thought the flying object looked very much like the trees and did a quick eliptical copy and paste of parts of the trees to add two more ufos. Also added another surface scratch..

I'm just pointing out how easy it is to manipulate a digital image, hence the question - has anyone seen the original hard copy photo?

I know. it's almost a shame how easy it is.
And when you look at for example 3D modelling communities you see a lot of "amateurs" pull off hollywood realism or better.
Being a still picture makes it even easier to get to photorealism as a 3D artist, you wouldn't care if the render takes say 48 hours if that's what you're trying to do. Which makes even 2007-quality (debatable) photographs easily dubbed fake.

This is also one reason why I like ooparts a lot. Different time & mindset, not familiar with "hollywood ufo's and aliens", no hypes yet... some ooparts are even ancient.

But even here hoaxes show up. but with artifacts they are often easily found with c14 dating. Seems to be a lot less debunking real stuff in this scene too. Most disproven stuff is pretty obviously fake to anyone with a good eye.

I think the biggest problem assuming ufo's are real, governments know and are doing their best to hide it / cover it up is that they did a real sweet job.
They effectively made the topic ridiculous. Mention UFO and immediately people around you stare at you like "are you feeling okay?".
Or another example, a pilot has a ufo encounter midflight. Anyone with a brain would not report it. At least if you still want to be an active pilot the next day.
It's like saying you see pink miniature elephants dancing on your table every day.
In my own opinion this prevents most of any real data to become public.
This means most of what we see is fake. And that one in a lifetime photo, witness report or artifact that is made public by that one brave person is easily thrown on the fakes stack. And with so many fakes, I don't even know if I can blame them.

Another thing is research that is being done despite the very good reason not to get publicly involved stated above.
For a large part you have the hardcore believers, on the other side the hardcore disbelievers. That usually doesn't make for very objective research.
If you really want it to be real. you can convince yourself/others any picture is real.
If you really don't want to see anything ufo-ish, you won't see it and/or you can explain anything away.
Especially to the average guy just by using some mumbo jumbo technical babble which might or might not make sense (cremes, shampoo and so on commercial's anyone?)

Glad you like the pic. And I realize it's real easy to fake stuff. I do photo retouching myself.
But coming up with the idea to make a fake flying saucer is a pretty original idea at the time, which i think at least adds a little weight towards authenticity.
And please mind my definition of authenticity is that the person involved really thought he saw something as opposed to premeditated/intentional. What it is that he/she saw then can still be open to research/debate. So I don't mean flying saucer piloted by beings from space when i say authentic

Sorry if my typings bad. I had a drink.. or 2... *hic*

[edit on 29-3-2007 by David2012]

[edit on 29-3-2007 by David2012]

got caught up in my previous post, still haven't answered you're questions lol silly me.

Here's what I know about the history:

- The photo was taken on the Ward sawmill in Slideward, colorado around 1929 by Edward Pline (additional info for completeness: He passed away several years later)

-The picture was made public alongside the story by his daughter Hetty Pline
(Hetty Pline was 6 at the time of the sighting)

-As for sound he described "a thunderous bellow" and the ground trembled somewhat.

-She also noted only a few other people noticed the object as most were looking at the ground not up.

As for other people seeing the photo, possibly dating of the original and more definitive info on any analysis done then hearsay on ufo sites I'd have to do more digging.

But would you agree it's an interesting case?

Ps. could you please tell me how I can show pictures on the board like you did, instead of the ugly link

[edit on 29-3-2007 by David2012]

Here you can find a few of my favorites

www.ufocasebook.com...

In particular

March 30-31, 1990, Belgium - Video taped, photographed, multiple eyewitnesses confirmed track by air and land based radar, the thing even toyed with two belgian F-16 fighters set up to intercept it.

September 15, 1991, Shuttle Mission STS-48 - Straight from NASA nuff said (space ice my a$$)

1991, Mexico City,Mexico - Filmed by multiple people (17 separate films), seen by thousands.

Originally posted by David2012
Here's what I know about the history:
- The photo was taken on the Ward sawmill in Slideward, colorado around 1929 by Edward Pline (additional info for completeness: He passed away several years later)
-The picture was made public alongside the story by his daughter Hetty Pline
(Hetty Pline was 6 at the time of the sighting)
-As for sound he described "a thunderous bellow" and the ground trembled somewhat.
-She also noted only a few other people noticed the object as most were looking at the ground not up.

As for other people seeing the photo, possibly dating of the original and more definitive info on any analysis done then hearsay on ufo sites I'd have to do more digging.

But would you agree it's an interesting case?

I did a quick search and found the same story on other sites. Is there any provenance other than the one story on the web? An old photo can be scanned and very easily manipulated - as I've shown by adding 2 more 'saucers' - then put on the web with a brief story supposedly authenticating it. Hence, I'm somewhat suspicious of it.

I notice it is another ufo site in a gallery of 'best ever' ufo photographs. The same gallery also has a clear photo of a seagull being passed off as another 'best ever' image!

Ps. could you please tell me how I can show pictures on the board like you did, instead of the ugly link

Upload your pictures to a photo hosting site (I use photobucket, but there are many more) then click on the Insert an Image button when you want to add the picture to your post. You will be prompted to add the pics address in a pop up box which you simple copy and paste in (so you'll need the photo hosting site page open at the same time.)

hope that helps...

I did a quick search and found the same story on other sites. Is there any provenance other than the one story on the web? An old photo can be scanned and very easily manipulated - as I've shown by adding 2 more 'saucers' - then put on the web with a brief story supposedly authenticating it. Hence, I'm somewhat suspicious of it.

Well.. to be real honest and yeh im a real critic, this is true for all the pics I have ever seen on the subject.
tbh the whole ufo pics subject could be thrown in a grabage can. not a single pic true or not will ever be positively found real.. (or positive fake either since there's always someone gullable enough to believe even the worst fakes not to forget a lot of people simply want to believe and it's common knowledge what happens when people want to believe something)

The fact it has one story which remains consistent in different publications adds to authenticity imho.. most ufo pics I've seen have different stories depending on where you find the pic.
If it was a real event it should figure the story is more or less the same everywhere.

I notice it is another ufo site in a gallery of 'best ever' ufo photographs. The same gallery also has a clear photo of a seagull being passed off as another 'best ever' image!

true but I don't see how that relates. most real ufo's just simple common sense and not denying something might be out there still are other things.. Our eyes are gullable and not all that good to be honest

Upload your pictures to a photo hosting site (I use photobucket, but there are many more) then..........

I host my pics on my server and added them exactly like you said.. stays a link... as for signing up at yet another site.. ill pass and stay with links then

As for more info.
I don't think we'll find much. I don't recall seeing any menton of a report to authorities at the time of the incident.

She found the photograph years after her father passed away in some old stuff of his.

As far as she could recall this was the first and only sighting she or her dad ever had.

These last bits of info come from memory of reading about it a good while ago, so im honestly not sure about the accuracy of my memory about the last bits.

To do some really good research someone would have to go offline (really internet is by far not the best source for info about this)

Go to a good library and browse through old newspapers of the time.

For real research you'd also need access to police archives to find out if there was a report of it at the time and the contents of the report.

I'd be willing to do real research but I'm not in the US and libraries here don't archive american newspapers.

something btw I see far to little on communities like these.. everyone keeps to internet noone seems to read/dig through actual files or anything. So online this stuff is even more conjecture then offline.

As to really the best ufo pics/ sightings/ witness reports I'd have to say go to belgium.
Belgium has at times been almost literally invaded by flying triangles and to boot their ufo official research is publicly done by a civilian agency in cooperation with the airforce.

the best pic would be the 3 lights from the belgium wave. which after adjusting brightness and contrast reveals the triangle to which the 3 lights belong.

anyway some really amazing sightings not seen by just a few witnesses but whole towns, cities. and many an f16 scrambled to intercept... and not just a few times

there's even a good explanation why something would be attracted to belgium. their highway lighting system... from space belgium's the brightest place on the planet.. "moth to a flame"

but seriously belgium's cases are very interesting and i'm planning to dig through actual (not online) reports and documents when I get the chance to go to brussels. maybe request insight into the research sobeps did and does since it's not classified.

[edit on 30-3-2007 by David2012]

Originally posted by Starwatcher
My favorite ufo video and the one I really believe is real is the canadian ufo. The one where the guy uses colorful language. "Its a f'ing ufo".
That video is on ats and youtube and I believe it is an authentic ufo. I am skeptical on all other videos except for this one. Some of the nasa transmisions I also believe are authentic, and it is kinda ironic they stoped live feeds from space. I am not sure about the videos in space as alot of the things seen could be anything.

If you examine that one closely you can see it's a helicopter. The repeating 'blips' of light correlate well with an idling copter blade's revolutions.

Originally posted by Gazrok
I'm going to go with the Tremonton Film.
Filmed by a military man, and debated during the Durant Report, it was one of the few case studies picked for some top level folks to assess the threat.

And, the guy who came up with the "birds" explanation, even later (once he went from debunker to UFOlogis) denounced that idea, and stating he was following orders, to debunk at all costs...(Hyneck)...

Here's a very good page on the Tremonton film:
ufologie.net...

In addition, it was the Robertson Panel and MacDonald, Menzel, Condon, Baker and others who 'debunked' the film, if I recall correctly, not Hynek. Astronomer William Hartman, the principal photoanalyst on this case offered the final analysis that it was a film of a flock of birds.

From the site referenced above:

"Although I cannot offer an expert ornithological opinion, it appears to me that the Tremonton objects constitute a flock of white birds. The data are not conclusive, but I have found nothing in the detailed Blue Book file incompatible with this opinion. The objects are thus provisionally identified as birds, pending any demonstration by other investigators that they could not be birds. There is no conclusive or probative evidence that the case involves extraordinary aircraft. On 23 August 1968 after completion of the above report, I had occasion to drive through Utah and made a point of watching for birds. The countryside near Tremonton is grassy farmland with trees, streams, and meadows. It was within 30 mi. of Tremonton that I noticed the greatest concentration of bird activity. A number of large gulls were seen, some with white bodies and dusky-tipped wings (rendering the wings indistinct in flight) and some pure white. About 10 miles south of Tremonton and again about 20 miles north of Panguitch (in southern Utah) I saw flocks of white or light birds at once distinctly reminiscent of the key witness's films. The birds milled about, the whole group drifting at about 20 or 30 mph (I noticed no surface wind) and subtending 100 to 200. The individual birds (in the second case) were not quite resolvable, yet appeared to have some structure. Sometimes pairs would move together and sometimes individuals or pairs would turn and fade out as others became prominent. As suggested by the key witness they appeared to require a telephoto lens for photography. They were not prominent, but distinctly cunous once noted-a group of white objects milling about in the sky. (The only proof that my second group of objects, which I observed from a considerable distance, were indeed birds, was that I saw them take off.) These observations give strong evidence that the Tremonton films do show birds, as hypothesized above, and I now regard the objects as so identified."

Thanks!

Originally posted by Unisol
so many sceptics about the phoenix lights....maybe couse theyr afraid they cant give a logical answer?
so patroling military planes?why didnt they sayd that?
how about flares?so who drops 5 flares at the middle in the night on top of a city?why didnt they telled anything?
how about weather baloons?so 5 ballons in the city by night?whats that a parade or sometin

hoe about optical ilusion...o cmonn seeing mickey mouse is optical ilusion[:

[edit on 29/3/07 by Unisol]

Don't tell me...this is an experiment in posting to ATS while drunk on tequila, right?

So many ATS posters for whom English is a second language make it hard to follow at times.

There were two sightings. One was clearly shown to be military flares being dropped.

The other sighting appeared to be a large craft, perhaps the 'Stealth Blimp' a project that was reported to have been dropped, but I believe there may have been some prototypes made. Perhaps they wanted to fly some overflights to see how the population would react. If the reaction was minimal, then they'd perhaps be more bold and use it to overfly non-friendly countries? Hard to tell.

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by Starwatcher
My favorite ufo video and the one I really believe is real is the canadian ufo. The one where the guy uses colorful language. "Its a f'ing ufo".
That video is on ats and youtube and I believe it is an authentic ufo....

If it's the same one I'm thinking of it's been covered elsewhere. I thought it looked good at first but on closer inspection saw what I considered to be evidence of fakery.

The 3 stills below show the reflected highlight and shadows on the object rotating - which implies that the sun is moving about in the sky!








cgi addition, I think...

Originally posted by Badge01

Originally posted by Gazrok
I'm going to go with the Tremonton Film.
Filmed by a military man, and debated during the Durant Report, it was one of the few case studies picked for some top level folks to assess the threat.

And, the guy who came up with the "birds" explanation, even later (once he went from debunker to UFOlogis) denounced that idea, and stating he was following orders, to debunk at all costs...(Hyneck)...

Here's a very good page on the Tremonton film:
ufologie.net...



Thanks!

Is it possible to find this film? I couldnt find anywhere. Thanks.

Try here Manastin, though the quality isn't that good!

www.galactic-server.net...

I remember seeing footage on Paul Mckenna's strange world program on ITV years back (I forget the actual name of the show now).

It was black and white, and was obviously footage taken on a military base by themselves. It was of this ship which seemed to be made up of 4 balls which moved around its central hub.

It was the most convincing ufo footage in that it was close up and you could see every detail of the craft. It was obviously military made but it was defying all laws of gravity that I could see, and we're not meant to be that far along technologically, so it was mind blowing stuff. Either we're alot further along technology wise than we're lead to believe, or we were playing with alien technology.

Seeing as I don't believe in Earth visitors anymore I'm gonna have to go with the former.

I've never seen the footage since though which is the strange thing...

p.s. I should mention that this program was in the mid 90's and that the footage was fairly new as it was obviously shot on video.

[edit on 31-3-2007 by John Nada]

Originally posted by carewemust
GottaGo, I really want to believe that the streaking objects are alien craft, but my internal voice is saying that they are particles/debris which were caught in the Earth's gravity well and accelerated inward.

If there were that many meteors zipping around up there than it would be impossible to have a space station up there or make space walks. All it would take is for one little meteor to hit an astronaut or the station and end of story. I have heard them say that its just dust

Originally posted by kleverone

Originally posted by carewemust
GottaGo, I really want to believe that the streaking objects are alien craft, but my internal voice is saying that they are particles/debris which were caught in the Earth's gravity well and accelerated inward.

If there were that many meteors zipping around up there than it would be impossible to have a space station up there or make space walks. All it would take is for one little meteor to hit an astronaut or the station and end of story. I have heard them say that its just dust

Exactly the point, kleverone. There's all that "stuff" up there but it never hits our space ships. Not at all random.

And just why is space so dusty? And why does that dust go zipping around in all directions, at incredible speeds, leaving light trails?

Your "they" doesn't want you to think.

Originally posted by Unisol
the ONe thing that makes me hit my head in the wall is sceptict sayng "nnaaaa dude this was a weather baloon case solved there are NO ALIENS"
well mr.sceptic the thing is...
BALOONS dont have that shape!
BALOONS dont do MACH 10 at the radar on some near by plane!
BALOONS dont just stand in the sky then dissapear completly by going supersonic!
BALOONS dont go in groups of five(phoenix lights case was it?)
so enough with the baloons already,ballons should be on a birthday party not in the sky.


[edit on 29/3/07 by Unisol]

I am just new to this site. But those words of the balloons. Very good point!!! your right always the say its wheater balloons.