UK troops captured by Iran

Also from the BBC Link quoted above (emphasis mine)

The other thing about 2004 was that it was actually quite close to the Shatt al-Arab mouth, going up the river, where you can say, 'Well, it's quite close, where is the median line?', although they were clearly in Iraqi waters. This has taken place further out.

Regardless of what the Iranians tell the servicemen to say on TV, this was an aggressive act on the part of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Naval section and very probably at the behest of Tehran. Those guys were not operating in or near a disputed area and that alone tells me the Iranians have decided to introduce some new rules to the 'game'.

If those servicemen are harmed in any way, they will probably wish they hadn't.

Cheers for the input , appreciated.

I understand and, to some extent, know alot of what you say, so I probably just need to clarify I wasn't implicitly saying that the USN or Rn were "negligent". It's the "surprise" element that seem's to have caught our boy's off guard that bother's me.

I suspect our helo that was there was probably scrambled after the event, or just before. Sometimes our guys, say when they do a drugs bust on a ship, might have a merlin or sea king up there with some guns and what not providing support. Not sure if this was the case here mind.

Random question -

Doesn't the UK have a draft system sort of like the United States does?

Reason I ask - I was observing the posts about the Uk not having enough man power or resources to get involved in another war.

Originally posted by stumason
I suspect our helo that was there was probably scrambled after the event, or just before. Sometimes our guys, say when they do a drugs bust on a ship, might have a merlin or sea king up there with some guns and what not providing support. Not sure if this was the case here mind.

Whenever the Marines carry out an inspection of a suspected vessel, the Helo is always there providing "top cover" support.

Cheers,
Zep

Originally posted by zeeon
Random question -

Doesn't the UK have a draft system sort of like the United States does?

Reason I ask - I was observing the posts about the Uk not having enough man power or resources to get involved in another war.

The British Army is volunteer based and has been for decades now. In times of war there are reservists that can be called up, as well as the members of the territorial army (similar to the National Guard in the US).

You will probably find more information here

Cheers,
Zep

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
The US isn't the UK's "big daddy" or protector. We are Brothers in Arms.
The US and UK are part of a bigger Anglo "family" including Australia, New Zealand, and Canada. When something happens to a member of this "family" Americans are likely to relate and sympathise.

We may bicker between one another at times but we have a special relationship that few nations on earth have. So I don't see any problem with the US standing with its brothers and willing to confront those who wish to harm us.

[edit on 24/3/07 by MikeboydUS]

well said mate I'm with you all the way on that statement squables are just that, they don't mean anything between famlies or friends the end times islamofreaks would love to drive a wedge between us all but it won't happen we all just have to stay focused, doing nothing isn't an option any longer

[edit on 24-3-2007 by avro]

Originally posted by Zep Tepi
The British Army is volunteer based and has been for decades now. In times of war there are reservists that can be called up, as well as the members of the territorial army (similar to the National Guard in the US).

You will probably find more information here

Cheers,
Zep

Thanks for the input, but that doesn't answer my question. The US Has a draft - legislation that states if congress declares a state of war and the US needs more men and women to go to war, they institute a random pick of eligable men/women to go to war.

I'm asking if the UK has the same legislation (or similar) as that?

Also, I know how the volunteer system works, I'm one of them

The news agency Fars said navigational equipment on the seized British boats "show that they (sailors) were aware that they were operating in Iranian waters and Iranian border guards fulfilled their responsibility."

Source

That is a pretty bold statement isn't it? I mean, if Iran IS right, wouldn't they use this as proof to the world? OR are they bluffing?
We'll see if they release the equipment won't we?
It'd be pretty interesting to me if it turned out they were - especially since the US Fifth Fleet states positively that they were in Iraqi waters - not Iran.

well in the last War WW2 we had conscription which meant most men of the right age and fitness requirements were liable for call up and I'm pretty sure the same went for Australia and Canada, so in times of a major conflict this could easily be implemented again,

cool thanks for the clarification.
I was just wondering if the UK could do that, in an emergency.
I hope to GOD it doesn't come to that.

If this is the second time this happened and if something bad did happen to the captured service men.Would the British government be forced to do something about it independent of what ever The United States thinks.like I remember that Falklands war way back when it was just British ships involved against Argentina.

Originally posted by zeeon
cool thanks for the clarification.
I was just wondering if the UK could do that, in an emergency.
I hope to GOD it doesn't come to that.

There's no system in place now for that to happen - the government would have to seek permission from Parliament to put in some kind of draft/conscription. But the potential is certainly there now, yeah. It could be done if it needed to be - the last time it was implemented was in the National Service Act 1948 in which said that young men between certain ages (18-26, I believe) had to serve eighteen months in the armed forces. It was extended to two years after the Korean War and then dropped in (I think - correct me if I'm wrong) 1960.

we certainly could and would do it if need be, in fact national service for all young men (2 years military service) only finished in the fifties and the regular shout by any one over the age of forty in the UK is "they should bring back national service" when ever there is a spate of vandalism or yobbish behaviour in the local community, maybe we should be careful of what we wish for, looks like we might be in for some, but to be honest when Brits feel really threatened we seem to get a real sense of spirit, basically we know whats right and do what we have to, much like the USA

hah, theres no way they could implement a draft in the UK, the people within the age bracket would not allow themselves to be used as cannon fodder for yet another needless conflict.

i would rather be shot than be drafted, because i know what our government is really up too, and i could never sell myself out.

Originally posted by zeeon
Thanks for the input, but that doesn't answer my question. The US Has a draft - legislation that states if congress declares a state of war and the US needs more men and women to go to war, they institute a random pick of eligable men/women to go to war.

I'm asking if the UK has the same legislation (or similar) as that?

Ah right, understood. I don't think the UK has any such legislation. The Civil Contingencies Act 2004 even has the following information: (Emphasis mine)

In addition emergency regulations:
• cannot prohibit or enable the prohibition of participation in, or any activity in connection with, a strike or other industrial action;
• cannot instigate any form of military conscription;
• cannot alter any aspect of criminal procedures;
• cannot create any new offence other than breach of the regulations themselves;
• must be compatible with the Human Rights Act and EU law; and
• are open to challenge in the courts

I guess that means no then!

WRT volunteering, I knew from a very early age that was what I wanted to do, and did so when I was 16

Cheers,
Zep

Originally posted by Zep Tepi
Ah right, understood. I don't think the UK has any such legislation. The Civil Contingencies Act 2004 even has the following information: (Emphasis mine)

In addition emergency regulations:
• cannot prohibit or enable the prohibition of participation in, or any activity in connection with, a strike or other industrial action;
• cannot instigate any form of military conscription;
• cannot alter any aspect of criminal procedures;
• cannot create any new offence other than breach of the regulations themselves;
• must be compatible with the Human Rights Act and EU law; and
• are open to challenge in the courts

I guess that means no then!

WRT volunteering, I knew from a very early age that was what I wanted to do, and did so when I was 16

Cheers,
Zep

Wow, Great post! Thanks for the information. I guess that answers that!
So with is in mind, I have a better understanding of british foriegn relations and their actions. If you can't insitute a draft, your at the mercy of volunteers to sustain a war. Interesting. I always believed the United States could get away with ALOT of what we do by always relying on the draft as a means to whatever end our government has.

Originally posted by shrunkensimon
hah, theres no way they could implement a draft in the UK, the people within the age bracket would not allow themselves to be used as cannon fodder for yet another needless conflict.

i would rather be shot than be drafted, because i know what our government is really up too, and i could never sell myself out.

I think your wrong, if it came to a major war the young people of Britain would make a stand against totalitarianism just like their fathers and Grand fathers did and it's conscription in the UK and draft in the USA

Zep, isn't the Civil Contingencies Act for home based event's, or does that cover war with another nation? I know I can look this up for myself (and will) but just in case you know off the top of your head..

I am sure that Parliament, if needed, would produce an Act to require conscription. But it has to be said, in both world War's, we waitied a while before invoking any draft as volunteer young men (and women) were in plentiful supply. Not sure if that would happen these day's (I would, but I am 24 so I am not sure about younger people though)

Originally posted by avro
I think your wrong, if it came to a major war the young people of Britain would make a stand against totalitarianism just like their fathers and Grand fathers did and it's conscription in the UK and draft in the USA

And I'd agree. They're exceptional circumstances which haven't been seen for almost seventy years, but there's still that 1940s spirit underneath.

Originally posted by zeeon
Wow, Great post! Thanks for the information. I guess that answers that!
So with is in mind, I have a better understanding of british foriegn relations and their actions. If you can't insitute a draft, your at the mercy of volunteers to sustain a war.

Pretty much, though if the UK itself was threatened then I don't think the government would have much trouble introducing a system of conscription - they'd get it approved by Parliament without any serious problems.

Interesting Article by a reporter on the HMS Cornwall.
Article

This was posted by another member, OBE1, on the other thread about this - "Are we hours away from war with Iran?" thread.

Thought you guys might find it interesting, i did.