philosophy behind god science

Science says, every thing that begins to exist has a cause. That is the foundation for science, but can not be proven by scientific method.
Science examines observable, repeatable, and predictable patterns in nature. Because of that, god can't be recognized in the scientific field. If Aliens from another galaxy did put life on here where is the proof? Or if we evolved from little cells, how did those little cells get here? If it was so easy for life to develop on earth, how come we havent found the very starting point of earth's life yet. The almighty God knows that people will be in doubt of his creation, but like Jesus said when he was alive, "stop doubting, and belive!"

I think that the problem is that we try to keep science and GOD separate. If we didn't try to keep them separate, then we could prove GOD scientifically.

(This is only my opinion, my definition of GOD may, of course, be different than yours.)

Take the sprouting of a seed, for example. Can any of us make a seed sprout? Not directly. We can plant the seed, water it, expose it to sun, and that is what makes it sprout. I have never found a human that could simply take a seed in hand and make it sprout by will alone.

Seeds can be sprouted again and again in a lab, therefore the process is repeatable, verifyable, and scientific. I claim that a higher power makes the seed sprout since I cannot do it on my own. The sun has power greater than mine, the soil has power greater than mine. Therefore, by my definition of a "higher power," this business of sprouting seeds is caused by a higher power.

You see, here is the problem: If any "spiritual" event can ever be reproduced in a lab, we call it "scientific" and strip it of any spiritual meaning. This, in my opinion, is why GOD cannot be proven scientifically: Because if we ever proved GOD, then GOD would cease to be GOD in our minds and would become, instead, a scientific principle.

Reproduction, gravity, weather, the changing of seasons, evolution - for me these are spiritual things, things of GOD. Most people do not see these as GOD because they can be done over and over in a lab. We keep busy trying to separate the two, as if they can't possibly exist together.

I think this is the problem: Some ask for proof of GOD, and if it is provided, then it can be rejected precisely because it is proof - the proof converts "GOD" to "science."

PS - why did you put this in the Aliens forum?

This is an old debate that will never be resolved because neither side will ever want to admit they are wrong. Science has no official comment on God or any other supernatural phenomena. So if your problem is with science discounting god, then my answer is that it has nothing to say about god because all disciplines of science would be stale if supernatural explanations were accepted as answers. You would still be sick as a result of evil forces rather than as the result of an infection.

No one has pinpointed the location of the origin of life because....well pretty much because that is impossible. We can guess as to the conditions and perhaps the mechanism with which the most basic form of life was birthed, however as earth is not biblically young and in fact around 4 billion years old and dynamic, its pretty much impossible to pick a spot and put a plaque on it declaring it the origin of life.

Seeds can be sprouted again and again in a lab, therefore the process is repeatable, verifyable, and scientific. I claim that a higher power makes the seed sprout since I cannot do it on my own.

That would be terribly bad science. There have been plenty of advances in microscopy since Leeuwenhoek used his simple microscope... there are plenty of things going on you can't see. Hormones, molecular signals, enzymes, etc. All acting in concert in order to create the germination of a seed. The seed simply responds to the correct stimuli and alters the action of the cells to begin the germination process.

The other processes you have listed are in no way mysteries to science either. Grab a book and read up.

[edit on 5-3-2007 by zooeyglass14]

Originally posted by zooeyglass14
The seed simply responds to the correct stimuli and alters the action of the cells to begin the germination process.

The other processes you have listed are in no way mysteries to science either. Grab a book and read up.

It appears that you have missed the entire point of my post, perhaps I didn't make myself clear, or perhaps you need to "read up."

I am saying that you can't place a seed in your hand and sprout it by your own will. Unless you are claiming to have this power then you actually agree with what I wrote.

I have said that the things I listed are not mysteries. That was my point. Since they are not mysteries, we claim they are not spiritual.

edit to add bolding

[edit on 3/5/07 by wellwhatnow]

Originally posted by ChilledVoodoo
Science examines observable, repeatable, and predictable patterns in nature.

Yet, althought the observable, the repeatable, and the predictable patterns in nature can be observed, they are not believed by the vast majority.

Everything in nature used as a basis for comparison when we judge time says time is based upon round/circular systems.

1) Years & Days = The sun which is round
2) Months & Night = The moon which is round
3) Days = The Earth's rotation which is round
4) Years = The Earth's/planet's orbit which is round
5) Solar System = round
6) Galaxy = round
7) Black holes = round
8) TIME itself has matter as a variable. Protons, electrons, neutrons, and atoms, and their orbits are all round
9)TIME ITSELF has the LIGHT as a variable, and when broken into it's components, through a spectrum even the rainbow is perfectly round

EVERYTHING in REALITY says time is round

Yet, although:

Originally posted by ChilledVoodoo
Science examines observable, repeatable, and predictable patterns in nature.

Yet, time is percieved by the human opinion as being linear.

Because of that, god can't be recognized in the scientific field.

The truth of time being round cannot be recognized by the linear perceptions of the scientific field, why should we trust them to quantify god? It is apparent that science shuns what is observed as repeatable, predicted observances in reality, in nature.

If Aliens from another galaxy did put life on here where is the proof?

Perhaps in the 98+% of our DNA that science says is "Junk dna", also called "Introns".

google "junk dna" and/or "introns", you might find it compelling.

.... like Jesus said when he was alive, "stop doubting, and believe"

perhaps we should stop doubting reality.

maybe then we'll be better equiped to recognize reality?

quote:

I dont doubt reality.
I think reality is in the eye of the beholder. Everyone has their own opinions on god, and aliens, or whatever, I belive that a tiny sprouting seed, or a bee making a beehive, or the humand mind, is such an amazing thing. If aliens became more of an every day occurance, and they were flying around shooting stuff, that would be amazing too. but their not. there is no life anywhere in the entire universe except on our great planet. The universe is so big and old, you may wonder yourself is there life out there? You can wonder you whole life and you will always come up with a no. Why? because our little planet is no more than a little speck of dust when compared to even the sun. not to mention the entire universe. I am glad we have the S.E.T.I. program. But it is just stab in the dark. The universe is filled with Gasses, dust, water, metal, and lots of room. how the heck do you make life out of these things? If you can go to any other place in the entire universe i would like to know how you plan to make life appear.

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
9)TIME ITSELF has the LIGHT as a variable, and when broken into it's components, through a spectrum even the rainbow is perfectly round

Light is a variable of time? Not sure what this means.

EVERYTHING in REALITY says time is round

Yet, time is percieved by the human opinion as being linear.

Human's see time as linear but your round items of years, etc. were made up by humans. Cycles are just marks for intervals. Wouldn't most people see it as time does not end, it marchs on. I guess I am missing the point.

i like when ppl are like well god isnt real "b/c of science" but really, science is just what god put into motion

like when a sniper takes out a target, the enemys see their pal drop dead after a huge boom cracks across the land, but where did the boom come from? i mean guy there got capped, and because you cant see the sniper i guess that means hes not there... yea right

I'm not sure I follow your logic wellwhatnow. So because humans cannot, by mere will, make another form of life change its stage of development (such as staring at a seed and willing it into germination), and even though we pretty much fully understand the molecular processes at work...this means that it is a spiritual event? Unless you are using the term "spiritual" as a blanket term to pretty much cover anything that you regard beautiful or meaningful, I'd have to disagree with you again. Yes, because we understand the physical forces at work when a seed germinates (or a fetus forms, or an apple falls), then the action is, I think by definition, not spiritual. The failure of me to will a seed into germination if anything may point towards a lack of spiritualness...and you're overlooking the fact that a seed is fully capable of germinating itself. It does not need the help of God or an egocentric human.

[edit on 5-3-2007 by zooeyglass14]

Originally posted by zooeyglass14
Yes, because we understand the physical forces at work when a seed germinates (or a fetus forms, or an apple falls), then the action is, I think by definition, not spiritual.

You are certainly right zooeyglass14 - I do have a broad definition of 'spiritual' and of 'GOD.'

Here's a little of my thought process:

A "higher power" is a power greater than my own.

"GOD" is the Guiding, Organizing, Designing process of the universe.

(These are my ideas alone and I don't expect others to share them.)

So I know that I cannot make a seed sprout of my own will.
Yet there are processes in place that cause it to happen. Therefore these processes have power greater than my own and they work according to the laws of nature - the Guiding, Organizing, Designing process.

The Guiding process might include survival mechanisms. An Organizing force might include gravity. The Design process might include evolution. These are just examples to demonstrate my view of GOD.

However, the real question I pose is this:

Just because we know how something works, does that mean it isn't spiritual? If so, then there can never be proof for any spiritual event because once it is proven it ceases to be spiritual.

I bring this up because I hear people say that they will believe in God as soon as his existence is proven. Yet, if his existance was proven then God would not be spiritual in nature anymore and the person asking for proof would have grounds to still not believe. You see, it's a bit of a conundrum for me. If something must be mysterious to be spiritual, then why would anyone ever ask for the mystery to be removed from spirituality before they could embrace it?

I think that the moment anything of GOD is proven, it ceases to be GOD-like if we insist that science and GOD cannot co-exist. I simply say that GOD and science can be one. I can embrace them both easily.

Science does not claim to know all. It is simply a means to an end, not a religious belief as many of you would like to have it related.

Tell me, was the bible peer reviewed?

God/religion and science are two completely separate entities, though many would like to argue one or the other for means relating to their biases.


I don't believe in organised religion but I believe in God and science. What does that make me?



[edit on 7-3-2007 by seenitall]