How do we free the ignorant?

We need affective methods that free ignorant minds, but how? With a decreased odd of getting labeled, "Insane, lunatic, alien geek, paranoid, dilusional, etc."

What is our comeback if we are challenged by the average hardhead?

What material do we show to people around us?

Who do we free?

I think, perhaps you shouyld be mroe clear on what subject exactly
you mean, because ATS topics in general are far to diverse to get
someone to believe in all of them, I eman consider how many
varying views on them we have now.

I believe the first step in Denying Ignorance, is refraining from ignorance ourselves. Too often we see people making an honest effort to deny ignorance, but they are slightly ignorant themselves. This never works.

We need to keep an open mind, no matter what the subject is. No matter how ridiculous the theory, post, message, etc., is we need to keep an open mind and respect the member. Factual content is vital in Denying Ignorance as well, our own opinions do nothing.

Why would our opinions be any more valid than another's? The fact is, it is not. We may see it as more reasonable, politically correct, or fathomable, but not everyone shares our point of view. To fully Deny Ignorance, we need to base our opinions on factual content rather than stereotypes.

So a steady mix of respect and facts is what I believe we need to fully Deny Ignorance. An open mind should be tossed in there as well. We all need to reserve the right to change our mind or opinions on subjects, closing our minds on some subjects can be a form of ignorance in itself.


[edit on 30-11-2006 by chissler]

"Ignorant" simply means "don't know" therefore maybe the most Effective way to free us would be to simply tell the truth.

By the Way; I'm an above average hardhead, thank you very much!


Free Me!!!

Maybe there is no way of freeing these minds at this time. You cannot affect some one's state of mind because it would be a degrading of his self. and there is no point in convincing someone who doesn't believe in his own self.

Take a look at it this way.
In a room of people most of em like it the way it is (the room). you stand in an other room. you cant see each other, only hear them. how do you want to convince them that youre room is more beautifull? It just cant be done if they are not willing to step out of there room and enter youre's. (Xtreme Simplified)

What I mean to say is. convincing people only works if there willing to accept the consequences (or be able to).

Everyone who's a regular ATS member is quite educated about conspiracy theories and other alternative subjects. I'm sure all members believe in selected alternate views to a certain extent, while totally discarding others.

Just deciding to discard a conspiracy theory doesn't make you ignorant, since you know it exists just you don't believe in it.

[edit on 12/1/2006 by djohnsto77]

7Ayreon,
I need you to clarify somethings for me before I attempt to proffer my opinion to you.

We need affective methods that free ignorant minds, but how?

Are you suggesting that you must have your mind control methods. You say the name of your methods are "free ignorant minds." It appears that your are asking how you how one would like your methods to be applied.

Please keep in mind that I do hold you in the highest regard and do believe that you are a perfect being. Just like a judge would do in a court at law, I believe that you meant every word you said exactly as you said it.

If I can get my way aligned with yours then we can get down to some serious business.











Oh by the way, I like to restate the obvious every once in a while. It helps to keep fixed in the mind things that are real and to not be diluted by the tangents that the human race likes to indulge in so very often.

For your pleasure, the obvious;

affective (e-fèk´tîv) adjective
1. Psychology. Influenced by or resulting from the emotions: affective disorders.
2. Concerned with or arousing feelings or emotions; emotional.

effective (î-fèk´tîv) adjective
1. a. Having an intended or expected effect. b. Producing a strong impression or response; striking: gave an effective performance as Othello.
2. Operative; in effect: The law is effective immediately.
3. Existing in fact; actual: a decline in the effective demand.
4. Prepared for use or action, especially in warfare.

noun
A soldier or a piece of military equipment that is ready for combat: "The 'company' was no more than two platoons of effectives" (Tom Clancy).

Originally posted by 7Ayreon
We need affective methods that free ignorant minds, but how?

1: Tell them to keep a journal or diary. Explain to them how we are not always the same when dealing with different people in our lives. Explain to them how they want to be needed and accepted, and know the "boundries" of the people they interact with in every day life. We are creatures of habit. We show people what they want to see, or what we want to show them. Tell them when they are writing in their journal to KNOW, absolutley KNOW no one else shall ever read it. Why? Because there will be no one to impress, and no reason to lie to one's "self". As they write they should ask themselves the questions they seek, whether or not they have an answer is not important, freedom of thought and taking their "speculation" for a walk can be a good thing. Instruct them to ask a logical question, come up with the most logical answer (speculation is OK), and then ask the next logical question. If they confront a bad thought, explain it away, define it, quantify it. If they confront a negative question that has no positive answer, then tell them to write out the question, and simply ask another question that negates the reason for the negative question to even exist.
Why should this prove to be a helpfull tool in fighting ignorance? Just like our computers, our brains too, also need to be "defragged"
I think this should help som.

With a decreased odd of getting labeled, "Insane.....

INSANE

Funny word. "Insane" means: "to reside within one's own mind".

so, if someone is judging another person as "insane", then don't they have to be within the other person's mind to observe that they are "residing within their own mind"? And, if they are in the mind of the person they are calling "insane", then aren't they OUT OF THEIR MIND!!!!

What is our comeback if we are challenged by the average hardhead?

Depends what they want to throw at me.

What material do we show to people around us?

911 TRINITY

TRINITY = 3

9113

1 = A *
2 = B
3 = C
4 = D
5 = E
6 = F
7 = G
8 = H
9 = I *
10 = J
11 = K
12 = L
13 = M *

9 = I
1 = A
13=M

9 1 13 = I A M = i am.

P.O.P. Quiz:

1. In your "opinion" is this: (911 trinity = I AM) the result of:
a) Proof of Coincidence
b) Proof of Conspiracy
c) Proof of GOD
d) Proof of "Free Will" and Proof of "Reasonable Doubt"
e)_____________________ (other, please specify)
f) NEO and the matrix are real.

Who do we free?

NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND!

[edit on 2-12-2006 by Esoteric Teacher]

Is it our place to free the ignorant? You teach best what you most need to learn, or more precisely, by wondering around being ignorant and spewing hate and bigotry and non-sense that tears society apart, the ignorant may be the greatest teachers we have. People look at them and it opens their eyes to the difficulties and things that must be overcome in life.

It would seem a bit presumptuous to decide another person journey in this life, when they may be doing what they chose to do to free the minds of the less enlightened.

What you consider ignorance may be their way of leading the world into a brighter future.

You teach best what you most need to learn, and the ignorant of this world teach us all to be better people.

Just my thoughts on it,

First and foremost, there is one thing on this thread that has been overlooked.

Ignorance is a trait of someone that refuses to believe the truth, when it is told to them, knowing full well it is the truth.

If someone being ignorant is a problem, IMHO, it's like talking to a brick wall, right? How do you get through that brick wall?

Here's a few options.... :bash:

You can always try to imitate Morpheus and tell that ignorant person to take the red or blue pill. Don't forget those cool sunglasses.

Originally posted by Infoholic

Here's a few options....

:bash:

Humanity already has a written and recorded history of roughly 7,000 years of practicing your suggested options which has yet to yield 7 consecutive days without war, killing, and destruction.

Sorry, but to follow the same old tactics seems to lead us to where we all are now.

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher

Originally posted by Infoholic

Here's a few options....

:bash:

Humanity already has a written and recorded history of roughly 7,000 years of practicing your suggested options which has yet to yield 7 consecutive days without war, killing, and destruction.

Sorry, but to follow the same old tactics seems to lead us to where we all are now.

I guess what I was trying to say is....

"You cannot force someone, nor anyone, to accept your views. You can only share the information you have with them, and allow them to do with it as they deem right."

You can't make someone believe the same things you do. Patience and persistence are a must, young Jedi. Ignorant people are like kids.. you've got to keep telling them over and over and over.

Originally posted by Infoholic
You can't make someone believe the same things you do. Patience and persistence are a must, young Jedi. Ignorant people are like kids.. you've got to keep telling them over and over and over.

I agree. How does that old quote go???

You cannot make someone love you. All you can do is be someone that can be loved and the rest is up to them.

You cannot free the ignorant. All you can do is be someone who deny's ignorance and the rest is up to them.

Originally posted by Infoholic

"You cannot force someone, nor anyone, to accept your views. You can only share the information you have with them, and allow them to do with it as they deem right."

I agree.

You can't make someone believe the same things you do. Patience and persistence are a must, young Jedi. Ignorant people are like kids.. you've got to keep telling them over and over and over.

Is it my "opinion" that young kids have to be an extension of my will?
Is it my "truth" that young kids have to be an extension of my will?

In order for me to make everyone who is a young kid or ignorant do i still keep pressing upon them the "truth of my opinion" over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over (persistence is a must) and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over (patience) and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and
over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and (persistence is a must) over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and
over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and (persistance is a must) over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and
over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and (patience) over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and
over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and (persistance is a must) over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and ......................

You can't make someone believe the same things you do. Patience and persistence are a must, young Jedi. Ignorant people are like kids.. you've got to keep telling them over and over and over.

Is it my "opinion" that young kids have to be an extension of my will?
Is it my "truth" that young kids have to be an extension of my will?

Or........

Can i shed myself of my opinion, and keep only my truth?

Then would the "truth" i have be that young kids and ignorant people are not the extension of my will?

Perhaps i am the extension of their will?

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher (edited by Info)
Blah Blah Blah Blah...

Well, that depends... is your truth and opinion factual? Does your truth and opinion carry any water with said fact?

If so, then... do as you wish.

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
Is it my "opinion" that young kids have to be an extension of my will?
Is it my "truth" that young kids have to be an extension of my will?

Again, does your opinion have anything to back it up with? If you truth is correct, then by all means, extend that to young kids... if not, then you are simply creating more ignorant people, because after all, it is easier to take the past of least resistance. That's simply physics.

Originally posted by Infoholic

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
Is it my "opinion" that young kids have to be an extension of my will?
Is it my "truth" that young kids have to be an extension of my will?

Again, does your opinion have anything to back it up with? If you truth is correct, then by all means, extend that to young kids... if not, then you are simply creating more ignorant people, because after all, it is easier to take the past of least resistance. That's simply physics.

my opinion is nothing, and nothing is what i back my opinion up with.

It is not my philosophy to extend my will to the ignorant people that are like "young kids", and to keep extending my will over and over and over and over, persistantly, relentlessly....

You can't make someone believe the same things you do. Patience and persistence are a must, young Jedi. Ignorant people are like kids.. you've got to keep telling them over and over and over.

it was something i heard from an older jedi.

i was taught (earlier this evening) that i can't make someone believe the same things as me.

and if there is no way to make someone believe the same things i do, then i must utilize patience and persistance that are a must. those who are ignorant are like kids and i must keep telling them over and over and over, persistantly, even though there is no way to make someone believe the same things i do.

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
and if there is no way to make someone believe the same things i do, then i must utilize patience and persistance that are a must. those who are ignorant are like kids and i must keep telling them over and over and over, persistantly, even though there is no way to make someone believe the same things i do.

Originally posted by Infoholic
"You cannot force someone, nor anyone, to accept your views. You can only share the information you have with them, and allow them to do with it as they deem right."

You can't make someone believe the same things you do. Patience and persistence are a must, young Jedi. Ignorant people are like kids.. you've got to keep telling them over and over and over.

You are correct ET... you can't force them, and you can't make them (that's pretty much the same thing)... but that doesn't mean you should give up on them. Don't construe realistic fact to be an automatic defeat.

Ignorance is strictly opinionated. Who determines who is ignorant? What is the determining factor?

What if the people who are denying ignorance are, in fact, ignorant themselves?

Determining someone is ignorant, is that a form of ignorance in itself?

Originally posted by chissler
Ignorance is strictly opinionated. Who determines who is ignorant? What is the determining factor?

What if the people who are denying ignorance are, in fact, ignorant themselves?

Determining someone is ignorant, is that a form of ignorance in itself?

By Info
Ignorance is a trait of someone that refuses to believe the truth, when it is told to them, knowing full well it is the truth.

This is my "opinion" of what it means to be ignorant.

ig·no·rance /ˈɪgnərəns/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ig-ner-uhns] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
the state or fact of being ignorant; lack of knowledge, learning, information, etc.

source

ig·no·rant /ˈɪgnərənt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ig-ner-uhnt] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective
1. lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned: an ignorant man.
2. lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact: ignorant of quantum physics.
3. uninformed; unaware.
4. due to or showing lack of knowledge or training: an ignorant statement.

source


So, according to an "un-opinionated" reference point, "ignorant" can simply be construed as showing yourself as being "uneducated"... so therefore... if I tell someone a truth, and they know it (now), and they continue to act as if they didn't or don't know the said "truth"... that makes them ignorant... an "un-opinionated" ignoramus.