Chinese massacres Tibetan refugees

I don't stand behind Chinese govt. i'm a Tibetan for god sake...

k4rupt and Chinawhite: Their complacency scares me because people must demand justice when govt oppresses them.

Warset: is sympathyzing w/ me and my people (Tibetan) but again, he does not support "a true Tibet autonomous region" so this simply hinders the just-cause.
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a bit of advice for them: you don't need complex philosophies to judge for yourself when a particular group of people are being oppressed, all you need to do is open your eyes, your heart, and have compassion. I suppose one would get upset when someone talks bad about their country or govt but You actually need to put that aside and not support your govt if your govt has and still is oppressing particular group of people...there need not be boundaries as far as extending your compassion to others..

Originally posted by trIckz_R_fO_kIdz
Why is it k4rupt, Warset, and Chinawhite all attack everything that exposes a part of their favorite government? Which is why I would not be suprised you would be connected to that government in some way. Lets just all go to sleep on them and hope nothing happens.

I bet I am a racist to for saying Taiwan is the real China? Oh yeh good kung fu film I saw reminded me of how many times china has been taken over by tyranny and the people always eventually take it back.

read my last post on the last page lol

One thing chinese ppl has learned after all those years of struggling and war and revolutions is that those stupid things will never make life better, instead, they'll only make things worse. ppl fight and die, but what do they get in the end? nothing!

It seriously pains me to see tibetans living in provety, but in today's world, food clothing and shelter aren't just gonna fall down from the sky, you need money to buy them, and technology to create them.

it's not like Han chinese are being racism or nothing, but they work hard, and study hard and made all those state of the art things possible, and as a result, their living conditions improved greatly.
Of course im not saying that spending a lot of time on practicing religion is bad, but if that's all you do, then where are you going to get all the money that you need?

each year china spend a lot of money trying to improve tibet, such as offering free university education, and lower grade university entrance and all that. If tibet are still having difficulties with that, when Han chinese will sent its own people over to help.

but some ppl just don't understand that! and calling that an effort to breed out the tibetan culture!

what freedom can you get when you can't even affort food and shelter?

it's just like in a school, you can swear at a teach for being too hard, or you can actually sit down and do some real studying?

Im sure things will eventually work out as tibetans gradually step out from the shadows of the past and into the moldern world.

ps. some merikkan are saying that those tibetans are forgetting their own culture...but indeed that's nothing more than a racist claim: so you think tibetans should only ride horses while watching merikkans driving fancy sports cars? what kind of culture is that if people can't get good goods and services?

Han chinese work hard, yes that is true, but us Tibetan are hard worker also, if there is no equal opportunity then how can we Tibetan show that we are capable of doing what ever Han,Japanese,Korean,American,German,British, and etc and can do.
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you didn't say spending lota time in religion is bad but you are implying that. And let me tell you this, Religion is not the only thing we do, we are merchants,theater actors,artist, musician, engineer, trader,nomads...What ever a civilization is composed of, that is what we are, it saddens me to read your comment.
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each yr China spends money on Tibet?
Majority of those benefits Han Chinese.

Let's say some one got cancer, in most of the moldern places, he will go to a hospital and get treatments, but if the person happens to be a tibetan living in tibet, where is he going to get all that? Instead of praying to god, today ppl can acutally make the treatment happen. but the catch here is how are you going to make that happen? ppl need to study and get all the knowledge he need... same goes to the tibetan, they need to get all the knowledge, and it's only fair if they do. and nowadays, most tibetan are not yet ready for all that challenges, so Han sent their own doctors over to help.
what freedom can you get when you can't even affort food and shelter?

-Again, you are implying that us Tibetans are not capable of taking care of ourselves without China interference, Quite frankly you are insulting me and my people

struggling and resist will only make things worse, and chinese ppl realized after all those years of none-sense revolutions and struggles. So why not sit down and calm ourselves and figure out a solution to actually improve things?

-So just sit on ass, while my people are constantly suffering and fleeing just like my parents did in early 50's when they were 6-7 yr old?

Hiding & Compalaining in India?

- We want to preserve our culture and live life without oppression, that is why about 150,000+ tibetans live in Exile,
Complain u say?
- How can we turn our bk on our brothers & sisters still suffering !

STOP THE NUCLEAR TESTS IN UYGHUR LANDS !!!


www.youtube.com...

Wow, after reading through this thread more completely,
it's in my opinion that it's starting to get a little out of control.

However, it still has time to turn away from such a path though.

[edit on 10/29/2006 by iori_komei]

Tibet could have been free today, originaly the USA was giving weapons, ammo, and training to the Tibetan army. However, China said back off and for some unknown reason at the time the USA tucked its tail between its legs and ran off yelping like a dying dog. The USA thus turned its back on the Tibetans and slaughter ensued, Tibet could have whooped China due to terrain but the US govt. decided to protect the power mongering Chinese govt. instead.
The pen is mightier than the sword- NOT ALWAYS TRUE!
When your enemy cares little for peace you must be willing to take up the sword and carry on, or risk being slaughtered like sheep.
Using violence and to what end is up to the PEOPLE not the ENEMY! We can stand asside or fight back, and frankly I would fight back to the bitter end with sticks and stones if need be. The Tibetan army sure did, and they could have won.

China has been massacaring the Tibetan people for YEARS, actually ever since they invaded. Trying to say this isnt true is like saying the holocaust never happened. All the informations out there, you simply need to throw down your judgements and look first or else you will be blinded. Frankly if I could give the Tibetans tanks, planes, gungs, ammo, missiles, and maybe one day a couple terminators I would. Why? Because they need the fighting chance they never had since the US govt. backed out on them. The murders, rapes, desecrations of ancient buildings and all the other things the Chinese have done to them also influences this decision. Its sick those people on here who call on freedom and justice then turn their backs on others in the drop of a hat if their govt. demands it, or will try and blurr the truth so they turn the good to evil and evil to good so they can say they need not interefer since its the defenders fault not the invaders.
THIS IS A WAR OF GENOCIDE FOR PEETS SAKE! WAKE UP AND LOOK A THE BODIES! How many more must die before your eyes open? Must you bathe each day in oceans of blood before you realize whats going on?

Originally posted by Himalayan

Tibet govt in Exile, it has been lil more than 40yrs but our main focus to get a real autonomous Tibet has not changed even though our initial goal was Getting a Free soverign Tibet which looking at this day & age and how the world operates is unlikely, that i admit (Sadly) but the resistance will never end for "a true autonomous Tibet" where human rights is not violated, Tibetans receiving equal opportunity as Hans, Tibetan culture being preserved by teaching the Tibetan youngster about their culture, Language, free practice of religion/spirituality. That being said, i know you will say these are getting better but you see we can't & will not sit our ass and wait for the day to happen, therefore the struggle for it will never end untill those goals are acheived.
Please do your part in this, it is through dialogue that we must approach this issue. There have been far too many blood shed not only in Tibet but of course in China and it is through asking questions & reasoning equipped with morality & sense of humanity in mind that we'll be able to move towards a brighter future for all...
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-keep the struggle alive my Chinese brother because not on only Tibetan but Chinese will also gain from the success of my peopls struggle....
-Please get to know us. go visit local Tibetan Community if can if theres one near you....

Himalayan, I think me and you are close on being on the same boat. I, too, wish to see a day whereas my people will live in a more LIBERAL state than it is right now (and yours as well with you being an autonomous region o fthe PRC.) The reason I may seem a bit, eh hardboiled, about this is because of the ENORMOUS Western ignorance of the PRC and how that turns so many westerners to hate on China and eventually, it's people. (As seen by so many people here)

I know you don't hate China or it's people, but you cannot deny that a lot of the "pro Tibet" people DO.

The CCP isn't ALL evil, and that's all i want people to understand. It has boosted our country from being the poorest, from a nation that was picked on, to being now a world super power and the fastest growing economy of any Industrialized country.

During the American Open-Door policy, the Japanese invasion, and the Western nation's exploitation of China; we Chinese realized that NO ONE gives a damn about us and the only way we can ever prevent that time from happening again was to become stronger... by ourselves. The CCP has done a fine job of that, but I think now it is time to allow more democratic movements. The CCP has allowed this stage to begin, but I think it should be allowed a bit faster.

Hiamalayn, when you called us your "brother," I realized that we are on the same boat. I just despise western ignorance and hypocrisy towards my country, our country, and we both want a more liberal China. My Tibetan brother, I will pray that our country advances towards a more liberal state faster than it currently is... for both our people.




[edit on 29-10-2006 by k4rupt]

Himalayan, I think me and you are close on being on the same boat. I, too, wish to see a day whereas my people will live in a more LIBERAL state than it is right now (and yours as well with you being an autonomous region o fthe PRC.) The reason I may seem a bit, eh hardboiled, about this is because of the ENORMOUS Western ignorance of the PRC and how that turns so many westerners to hate on China and eventually, it's people. (As seen by so many people here)

I know you don't hate China or it's people, but you cannot deny that a lot of the "pro Tibet" people DO.

The CCP isn't ALL evil, and that's all i want people to understand. It has boosted our country from being the poorest, from a nation that was picked on, to being now a world super power and the fastest growing economy of any Industrialized country.

During the American Open-Door policy, the Japanese invasion, and the Western nation's exploitation of China; we Chinese realized that NO ONE gives a damn about us and the only way we can ever prevent that time from happening again was to become stronger... by ourselves. The CCP has done a fine job of that, but I think now it is time to allow more democratic movements. The CCP has allowed this stage to begin, but I think it should be allowed a bit faster.

Hiamalayn, when you called us your "brother," I realized that we are on the same boat. I just despise western ignorance and hypocrisy towards my country, our country, and we both want a more liberal China. My Tibetan brother, I will pray that our country advances towards a more liberal state faster than it currently is... for both our people.

- In the mean time untill that is acheived, Tibetans and Tibetan supporter will keep the resistance alive. and By that i mean, "Awareness" on the sufferings of my people and your People.
- So keep working towards it !


[edit on 29-10-2006 by Himalayan]

Originally posted by Himalayan

Like i said, your thoughts on tibet is still in the 50's

you have no idea how much things have changed since then

people were outrageous during the 50's, they don't care much about killing and torturing othere as we are now, because WW2 has just happened, people are used to killing eachothers.

as for tibet, was actually part of the Nationalist VS Communist civil war. Nationalist government had Tebit during the WW2, and the up rising communist fought the nationalist after WW2, and seized all of its territories (expect for Taiwan), Tibet happens to be one part of them.

But china today is a quite stable nation, there isn't much need for torturing and beating up, simply because there is no need to. And if you go back to Tibet today, you will see a huge difference between the Tibet that you thought of and the really Tibet.

as for religion, I don't mean it's bad, I meant it should not interfere with out works, and should not make people's living standard lower.
Formal education to today's technology is important even for Tibetan, and religion should not be an excuse to reject technology, which most Tibet-living-tibetan are starting to realize ---which is a good thing.

Originally posted by warset
Like i said, your thoughts on tibet is still in the 50's

you have no idea how much things have changed since then

people were outrageous during the 50's, they don't care much about killing and torturing othere as we are now, because WW2 has just happened, people are used to killing eachothers.

as for tibet, was actually part of the Nationalist VS Communist civil war. Nationalist government had Tebit during the WW2, and the up rising communist fought the nationalist after WW2, and seized all of its territories (expect for Taiwan), Tibet happens to be one part of them.

But china today is a quite stable nation, there isn't much need for torturing and beating up, simply because there is no need to. And if you go back to Tibet today, you will see a huge difference between the Tibet that you thought of and the really Tibet.

as for religion, I don't mean it's bad, I meant it should not interfere with out works, and should not make people's living standard lower.
Formal education to today's technology is important even for Tibetan, and religion should not be an excuse to reject technology, which most Tibet-living-tibetan are starting to realize ---which is a good thing.

Your whole thought process is that China along with Tibet is improving but you fail to see how the Tibetans really feel.
The atrocities still continues may be not at the level as it used to be but it still exst and Chinese need to aknowledge that.
- Eventhough Budhism is very important to us, we Tibetan don't reject technology in the name of religion, that is rubish, If China didn't interfere then We would improved our Country on going toward modernizing it ourselves just as mostly rest of the Country in the world. We deserve more credibility than you give us. We are more than capable to mordernize our Country.

- I've been to Tibet (last June), like many other that i know of....My parents went back after 48 Years of living in Exile, it was a very sad and joyful experience for them at the same time and i'll tell what we/I saw

1. I saw Norbu Linkha Palace in such a pitiful state.
2. I saw streets of Bakhor & Lhasa filled w/ Tibetan beggers & Chinese shop owners.
3. I saw the commercialization of Tibetan monastery archetechtural design and thus put on places such as Motel, Restaurants, etc...
4. I saw the somewhat rebuilt Drepung and other main Monasteries, just in time for Chinese to make money during this much anticipated all time high Turist season due to the Bombardier Railroad from Qinghai-Tibet (Gormo-Lhasa)
5. I’ve heard from other Tibetans who've visited Tibet before about China's school system in Tibet, stressing on Topic such as "Facts of China & Myth of Tibet" (brain washing Tibetan kids at a perfect age).
6. I saw opportunities Chinese were getting while Tibetans were treated as second class citizen, often labeled as "backward thinker".
7. I saw 6 yr & 8 yr old Tibetan janitor, waiting outside Tent Bathrooms located near Nam-Tso.
8. I saw the Chinese outnumbering Tibetans and Tibetans having no say in anything that effects their daily life.
9. The Daramsala in India constantly receive Tibetan refugees since the invasion.
10. The recent shooting of Tibetan refugees trying to cross Nangpa pass, fleeing for better life in India or Nepal, confirmed by European mountaineers, are just tip of ice berg (if my people are so happy, why are they constantly fleeing)
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You the Chinese people and the Govt need to aknowledge what has been done to Tibet and what is still going on.
There needs to be a meaningful dialogue between Beijing and Tibetan govt in Exile instead of just ignoring our plea for dialogue and labeling our Dalai Lama as separatist,
and that he wants to rule Tibet (thats absurd) & he wants make Tibet a theocratic Country again (You see we don't want a theocratic govt, not to mention 98% of the my people love & admire our Dalai Lama)
& lying to the world that Tibetan people are happy

[edit on 29-10-2006 by Himalayan]

Alright, you won....

so what are you suggesting to do?

Trying to kill the mainstream Han chinese, burn down their shops, and retake tibet?
you know that's impossible right?

Or you rather talk things out and see if you find any solutions?

I know some tibetan are sad and acting actively about the free tibet issue, but you know it's not gonna happen, so why don't instead cooperate are see if it can be solved in other ways?

I see Dalai Lama has changed his agenda resently from having an independent tibet to a special administrative tibet (like the policy used in Hong Kong), that's a good sign of accepting reality.

I hope he can eventually work things out before he passes away.

ps. be optimistic about it!
being pessimistic won't solve anything, and only cause more sadness, am I right?

[edit on 10/30/2006 by warset]

Himalayan great job at calling out their lies

Yeah, when its another nation they have little information about you can whack them really easy. Comes down to the USA though, they are VERY blind and VERY arrogant towards others no matter WHAT happens.

I've erased what ever I said here.

[edit on 10/30/2006 by warset]

warset... uhhh yeah ok whatever talk about going over the deep edge. You do NOT have to be someplace in person or have been to know whats going on, learn that well. You YOURSELF can be called down on that fact on other subjects when it comes to politics citing you havent been there or done that. Oh but wait! You read on this stuff (maybe, if nothing else you read on here), you talk about it, you call down others on it, yet you havent done anything or in that area let alone been there. Keep your toung civil kid. You and Himalayan are NOT the center of the unvierse.

Originally posted by Vekar
warset... uhhh yeah ok whatever talk about going over the deep edge. You do NOT have to be someplace in person or have been to know whats going on, learn that well. You YOURSELF can be called down on that fact on other subjects when it comes to politics citing you havent been there or done that. Oh but wait! You read on this stuff (maybe, if nothing else you read on here), you talk about it, you call down others on it, yet you havent done anything or in that area let alone been there. Keep your toung civil kid. You and Himalayan are NOT the center of the unvierse.

Yes, we are not center of the universe, but RetinoidReceptor is just playing stupid....

If he doesn't change his "all you ChiCom lovers F* off" attitude, then what's the point of talking here? Beside I'm not a communist lover anyways, I'm just trying to point out different ways of thinking among different groups of people.

This forum is about denying ignorance, not advocating to it, but how are people going to deny ignorance when all they can think is "they are evil communists" when ever they see a opinion different from theirs?

[edit on 10/30/2006 by warset]

Yes, we are not center of the universe, but RetinoidReceptor is just playing stupid....

If he doesn't change his "all you ChiCom lovers F* off" attitude, then what's the point of talking here?

First off, please point to where I am playing stupid. Second off, I never said all you "chicom lovers f*** off". I have never used that word in my life [chicom that is]. Perhaps you have me confused with Trickz. If anyone is dismissing people it would be you by calling us "Merrikans" who are ignorant. Or K4rupt saying we are all ignorant Westerners when we clearly seem to know more than you do (proved wrong by Himalayan).

Since this thread is about Chinese persecution of Tibet, I think you have made your point through argument and finally submission to Himalayan. Tata

I was talking about your attitude! Though you didn't specifically mention that, but that's pretty much what you are implying.

If people can try to understand each other rather being racist about each other, the world would be a much better place.

Alright, that's enough about this topic... I don't want say anything more.

Originally posted by warset
I was talking about your attitude! Though you didn't specifically mention that, but that's pretty much what you are implying.

If people can try to understand each other rather being racist about each other, the world would be a much better place.

Alright, that's enough about this topic... I don't want say anything more.

I was straight forward in my sayings, he used his words more symbolically, I was just pissed off that day anyways, no insults intended.

Originally posted by trIckz_R_fO_kIdz

Originally posted by warset
I was talking about your attitude! Though you didn't specifically mention that, but that's pretty much what you are implying.

If people can try to understand each other rather being racist about each other, the world would be a much better place.
.

I didn't "imply" anything racist.

Are you the Jesse Jackson of China or something?