Lockheeds f-19 stealth fighter

Originally posted by minimi
Here is a quote from the book 'Future Fighters' by Bll Gunston, Salamander Books, 1984, ISBN 0 86101 163 5


"Lockheed F-19?
Not illustrated because it is highly classified (as most of the 'Skunk Works' projects are in their early years), this fighter is a stealth technology design with 'near-zero' optical, radar and IR signatures. A number, looking rather like a Shuttle Orbiter in plan and powered by two 12,000 lb (5443kg) engines, are said to have flown since 1977. The designation is a mere guess, since official DoD numbers jmped from 18 to 20. Questioned on a recent crash, a DoD spokesman said " I can tell you it wasn't an F-19." "

This would appear to contradict other information I have read F-19 info
Other Info

Try this one mate ,this is the shuttle looking F-19

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Originally posted by Shadowhawk
Classified aircraft have received anomalous "F" (usually "YF") designations even when the aircraft were not fighter planes (i.e. YF-117D TACIT BLUE). Until recently, these were always three-digit designators (such as YF-117A and YF-113G). In the late 1990s, however, a classified prototype was flown as the YF-24.

Is this limited to the US Air Force? I ask because I can think of several classified planes that didn't or don't have a YF designation:

U-2: CIA Spy Plane
A-12: CIA version of the Blackbird
TR-3 Black Manta
SR-75 ?
XR-7 ?

These are all classified designations that are not "YF". So apperently your statement about classified panes having a YF designation isn't always true.

Tim

The YF designators for classified aircraft were introduced with Project HAVE DOUGHNUT in 1968, quite a few years after the U-2 and A-12 programs were started.

The U-2 was given an innocuous "U for Utility" designation in a misguided attempt to hide its true mission.

A-12 was a Lockheed designation that was never part of thge official MDS designation system. The "A" stood for Archangel, Kelly Johnson's name for the successor to his earlier Angel (U-2).

"TR-3 Black Manta" is an entirely speculative name for an aircraft that may not even exist. If an aircraft with the characteristics of the alleged TR-3 was built, it would almost certainly not have that designator. It would probably have been one of the YF types.

SR-75 and XR-7 are just made-up designators for ridiculously improbable and highly speculative models from Testors Corporation.

HAVE BLUE apparently never had a YF (or other) designator as the only Air Force pilot to fly it did not log his flight hours at the time. He later received flight credit in the form of a letter from Ben Rich of Lockheed. (At least that's the story I have heard from several sources. One of these days I should just ask him myself.)

The SENIOR TREND full-scale development (FSD) prototypes were designated YF-117A. This designation stuck for the production aircraft as F-117A.

TACIT BLUE was listed as YF-117D on the pilots flight logs (A.F. Form 5).

I'm not sure if Bird of Prey had a YF designator. Only one Air Force pilot flew it and I didn't ask him.

Of the remaining seven to eleven known manned "black" aircraft that have yet to be unveiled to the public, only two designators (YF-24 and YF-113G) have been revealed by Air Force officials. (I do not include the numerous YF-110, YF-112, YF-113, etc., designations for foreign aircraft types evaluated by the Air Force and Navy.)

Originally posted by waynos
What about the RAF and their 'Desert Pink' camouflage applied to everything that flew in the Gulf War?

Everyone knows the RAF are the best, most macho real men pilots there are

[edit on 26-10-2005 by waynos]

It is either the RAF or the USN Top Gun Pilots
USN-Becouse of the planes but the pilots are sort of immature.
RAF-Well educated ,professional but there are only a few pilots in Britain these days.

Is there any truth in the 'YF' story? As far as I have always known 'Y' was simply added to the designation of a prototype of any new fighter, hence YF-15, YF-16, YF-17, YF-22 etc.

That's exactly right. "YF" is the prefix for a prototype. "YF" is supposed to be used for a prototype fighter. It should be pretty staright forward. Technically, the YF designations were misused when they were applied to the Soviet aircraft types being tested in the late 1960s.

But, they did use them. They needed an unclassified aircraft designator for use in the flight logs and a tradition was born. YF designations were used for acquired foreign aircraft, classified protoypes and one-off technology demonstrators. I interviewed one of the guys who invented what has been jokingly called "the new Century Series" and others who have used this system. It's all there in the flight logs.

Originally posted by Shadowhawk
A-12 was a Lockheed designation that was never part of thge official MDS designation system. The "A" stood for Archangel, Kelly Johnson's name for the successor to his earlier Angel (U-2).

I would have to disagree with you on that! The CIA also referred to the Aircraft at the A-12. In fact, they had it printed on the flight manuals for the single seat version of the Blackbird.

Tim

Yes, the CIA did use Kelly Johnson's A-12 designation. It doesn't change the fact that it was never part of the DoD Mission/Design/Series (MDS) designation system in which the letter "A" stands for "Attack."

If you read Johnson's personal logs (or any decent history of the Lockheed Skunk Works) you will find the origin of the Archangel name and his designs for the new recon aircraft (designated by him as A-1 through A-12).

Because of the secret origins of the Blackbird family and the way the program was managed (with convoluted relationships between Lockheed, CIA, and the Air Force) much was done outside the normal procedural channels. Aircraft designations were abnormal and changed often during the course of the program.

The AF-12 was originally intentionally misidentified as the A-11 when the program was surfaced, but became the YF-12A to conform to the MDS system. The Q-12 became the D-21 and the M-12 became the M-21. The R-12 became the RS-71 and then the SR-71. It's enough to drive a historian mad.

Originally posted by Shadowhawk
Yes, the CIA did use Kelly Johnson's A-12 designation. It doesn't change the fact that it was never part of the DoD Mission/Design/Series (MDS) designation system in which the letter "A" stands for "Attack."

If you read Johnson's personal logs (or any decent history of the Lockheed Skunk Works) you will find the origin of the Archangel name and his designs for the new recon aircraft (designated by him as A-1 through A-12).

I'm very aware of that! All I was doing, is pointing out that it happened. It wasn't a standard designation, but it was used.

Tim

The AF-12 was originally intentionally misidentified as the A-11 when the program was surfaced, but became the YF-12A to conform to the MDS system. The Q-12 became the D-21 and the M-12 became the M-21. The R-12 became the RS-71 and then the SR-71. It's enough to drive a historian mad.

To complete this, D-21 stands for Daughter and M-21 means Mother. It is not standard USAF designation