Racial Profiling Of Muslims

sad how I am no longer confused how nazi germany actually happened. So many people are well on there way to that type of mentality anyway.

I'll put it like this. If people in other countries searched me more than another race because I'm white and they think Christians might attack them, I wouldn't care, I'd just let them search me. It's a fact that most terrorists that have attacked are muslim. And the majority of muslims are of middle eastern descent. In my opinion it is totally ok to be suspicious of someone by the way they look when you have evidence of trend.

Originally posted by grimreaper797
sad how I am no longer confused how nazi germany actually happened. So many people are well on there way to that type of mentality anyway.

Jews did nothing to Germany. They didn't deserve the murderous treatment they recieved. Yet I bet you are full well for the elimination of Isreal.

Like you said, I understand how a large group of people could be incited to attack innocents and back the racists. It becomes all too clear.

Captain is more than right. Too bad he doesn't get the warm and fuzzy feelling you guys get. I sure he'll get by.

What does the world of Islam have to say about the hundreds murdered and attempted murdered daily?

Good question. And in a Christian-dominated country such as America, it's obvious to see that the average Muslim voice is "lost."

Luckily the rest of the world allows those voices to speak...
www.islamdenouncesterrorism.com...
www.islam-guide.com...
www.guardian.co.uk...

etc., etc.

The funny thing is that, in many countries, all sorts of people are trying to say what Muslims want, but you never hear any of the Muslims in the country given the chance to actually say what they want. The only time you hear the Muslim voice is when there is an extremist and that extremist is used by those who hate Islam to denounce it.

There are over a billion Muslims in the world, and yet what you see on the news is what less than a hundredth of a percent of them do.

Yeah I think that airport screeners should really be spending their time and energy wanding and frisking 80-year-old women. These senior citizens have caused enough damage with their hijackings and suicide bombings.

Ok, for those who are completely oblivious, that first paragraph was complete and utter sarcasm. Elderly women have never hijacked any planes or committed any acts of terrorism against the United States (that I know of). Yet, a lot of people expect the men and women our government charges with protecting airline passengers and those on the ground to waste their time screening elderly women who clearly pose no threat to airline security. They want them to remove and x-ray their orthopedic insoles and check their walkers for explosives residue. And oddly enough their reasoning for this is not because these elderly women pose a threat. Rather, its because by over-screening these 80-year-old women they hope to passify and please the young Arab and/or Muslim men that we SHOULD be focusing on. Now, its one thing to be politically correct and sensetive. It's an entirely different thing to be politically correct at the expense of innocent people's safety.

As an Italian American, let me tell you this. If Italians were committing acts of terror against the U.S. at home and abroad, I would not only expect, but I would DEMAND, that airport screeners take extra caution and pay close attention to Italian men when screening them. As a passenger on a given flight, I would feel much more safe knowing that the TSA agents carefully screened all the Italian men on my flight. I'd be even more pleased if they screened everyone that even closely resembled an Italian man- even the Italian women with extraordinarily hairy upper lips! I think that any sensible Arab man or Muslim man should feel the same way. By taking a closer look at these folks, or "profiling" as some of you like to call it, they are not only protecting us from acts of terror but also protecting the very same Arab and/or Muslim men that they are screening from acts of terror!

I find it completely selfish on the parts of those who cry Arab/Muslim men who cry "racism" and scream "profiling" when they have to spend an extra minute or two in the security line while their shoes are swabbed. I'm sorry that you guys fit the profile. If you have a problem with that, then maybe you should go after the root cause- the TERRORISTS who are killing and maiming and causing your people this "inconvenience". But I don't want to even get started on the Arabic and Muslim communities' lack of public condemnation of these cowardly terrorists and their acts. I don't want to go off on a 7,000-word post complaining about the 10,000 Arabs marching in Michigan in SUPPORT OF HEZBOLLAH- something which the mainstream media at large IGNORED! And they ignored it for the very same reason that we're afraid to "profile" these folks at airports- they are SCARED to offend them!

And let me say this... this post is coming from a former airport security screener who wasted countless hours wanding elderly women in their wheelchairs and x-raying young childrens' teddy bears instead of concentrating on the likely perpetrators. This is not to say that we should completely ignore everyone except Muslim and Arab men when screening at airports. That'd be insane. I can think of a million scenareos where someone who doesn't fit the profile could be forced or fooled into carrying explosives onto a plane or carrying out a hijacking. I just feel that we should rely on a tried and true method of policing and investigation in this case, and that is called "profiling."

If Muslim and Arabic men continue to complain about this profiling at airports and they get their way, then what's next? Should I complain that the FBI is profiling young, single white men when looking for serial killers and serial rapists most of the time? After all, they are profiling me! What the airport screeners are doing when they pay close attention to these Arabic/Muslim men is no different than what most of you do when you see a young, minority male walking behind you down the street and you pick up your pace or reach into your pockets and grab your car key, readying yourself to stab the guy when he tries taking your purse or having his way with you. Now, should you be considered wrong for doing that? I personally don't think so. It's for your own safety. And even though you're wrong 99.9% of the time when you do that, it's that .1% when you are right that will end up saving your life. And I can't fault anyone for that.

Speaking of 60 year old grannies causing distrubances on air planes:

flight_diverted

They said there was no indication of terrorism, but I suppose they forgot to look at how much terror she caused the passengers.

Originally posted by grimreaper797
cutwolf and dg are these really your beliefs? Are you being serious? Im not asking this to act as an attack I simply dont believe what Im reading.

What is wrong with them?

If 9/11 was committed by a bunch of alien flaming dog monkeys, and more alien flaming dog monkeys were found to be plotting more attacks, would it be wrong to be more likely to stop an alien flaming dog monkey? Its not racism. The fact of the matter is the majority of terrorists are middle eastern. I'm not comparing middle easterners to alien flaming dog monkeys, so don't bother trying to pounce on that.

It sucks but we gotta face reality.

Since 9/11, how many terrorist plots against the US have been thwarted and found to have been planned by people other than middle eastern groups (or groups of middle eastern descent)? You can probably count it on one hand.

I hate to say this, and most of you people spouting "islam is a peace-loving religion" are completely incorrect. It amazes me in particular that the majority of muslims either have not read any significant portion of the Quran, and/or conveniently ignore the many teachings and commandments within.

The Quran is a book which preaches violence and intolerance to anyone who is not a muslim. Let me offer a very small subset of teachings from the Quran that illustrate this:

• Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kill them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. (But if they desist in their unbelief, then don't kill them.) 2:191-2
  
• Fight them until "religion is for Allah." 2:193
  
• War is ordained by Allah, and all Muslims must be willing to fight, whether they like it or not. 2:216
  
• Don't be friends with non-Muslims. They all hate you and want to ruin you. 3:118
  
• Oppose and admonish those who refuse to follow Muhammad. 4:63
  
• Do not choose disbelievers as friends. 4:144
  
• Fight the disbelievers! Allah is on your side; he will give you victory. 9:12-14
  
• Treat converts to Islam well. (Kill those who refuse to convert. See 9:5) 9:11
  
• Don't let the disbelievers think they can escape. They are your enemy and the enemy of Allah. 8:59-60
  
• If you refuse to fight, Allah will afflict you with a painful doom. 9:39
  
• Believers must fight for Allah. They must kill and be killed , and are bound to do so by the Torah, Gospel, and Quran. But Allah will reward them for it. 9:111
  

I'm not sure how the heck muslims can claim that by obeying these teachings, muslims are "extremists" and are twisting it out of context. By the Quran's own word, the extremists are simply doing their duty and the muslims that claim Islam is a peaceful religion are simply practising just the parts of the religion that suit them.

There are a couple of new documentaries out that explore this concept in depth:

www.obsessionthemovie.com...
www.whatthewestneedstoknow.com...

If you can get a hold of them or find a screening, go have a look and educate yourself. Islam is NOT a religion of peace, and screening muslims as terror suspects is a logical course of action.

Did you know that Jihad is the responsibility of every Muslim? An excerpt from www.jihadwatch.org... - "Because the West is facing a concerted effort by Islamic jihadists, the motives and goals of whom are largely ignored by the Western media, to destroy the West and bring it forcibly into the Islamic world -- and to commit violence to that end even while their overall goal remains out of reach. That effort goes under the general rubric of jihad.

Jihad (in Arabic, "struggle") is a central duty of every Muslim. Modern Muslim theologians have spoken of many things as jihads: the struggle within the soul, defending the faith from critics, supporting its growth and defense financially, even migrating to non-Muslim lands for the purpose of spreading Islam. But violent jihad is a constant of Islamic history. Many passages of the Qur'an and sayings of the Prophet Muhammad are used by jihad warriors today to justify their actions and gain new recruits. No major Muslim group has ever repudiated the doctrines of armed jihad. The theology of jihad, which denies unbelievers equality of human rights and dignity, is available today for anyone with the will and means to bring it to life."

Hundreds more quotes illustrating the violent nature of the Quran can be found here in the links to the right: www.skepticsannotatedbible.com...

[edit on 17-8-2006 by SnowDevil]

Originally posted by SnowDevil

• Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kill them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. (But if they desist in their unbelief, then don't kill them.) 2:191-2
  
• Fight them until "religion is for Allah." 2:193
  
• War is ordained by Allah, and all Muslims must be willing to fight, whether they like it or not. 2:216
  
• Don't be friends with non-Muslims. They all hate you and want to ruin you. 3:118
  
• Oppose and admonish those who refuse to follow Muhammad. 4:63
  
• Do not choose disbelievers as friends. 4:144
  
• Fight the disbelievers! Allah is on your side; he will give you victory. 9:12-14
  
• Treat converts to Islam well. (Kill those who refuse to convert. See 9:5) 9:11
  
• Don't let the disbelievers think they can escape. They are your enemy and the enemy of Allah. 8:59-60
  
• If you refuse to fight, Allah will afflict you with a painful doom. 9:39
  
• Believers must fight for Allah. They must kill and be killed , and are bound to do so by the Torah, Gospel, and Quran. But Allah will reward them for it. 9:111
  

I see your kind making statements like this all the time. What's funny is that you fail to mention the text of the verses before and after the ones you take out of context, and also who the "disbelievers" are. Would you mind explaining to us who the "disbelievers" are, since you establish yourself as well educated enough to know the Quran. I will post the entire verse of the Surah you posted, and with some, the verses before and after the ones you posted (with verses you chose in bold, with their full context), to show how idiotic your claims are, and then explain their meaning:

Surah 2:190-193 = Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors. You may kill those who wage war against you, and you may evict them whence they evicted you. Oppression is worse than murder. Do not fight them at the Sacred Masjid, unless they attack you therein. If they attack you, you may kill them. This is the just retribution for those disbelievers. If they refrain, then GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful. You may also fight them to eliminate oppression, and to worship GOD freely. If they refrain, you shall not aggress; aggression is permitted only against the aggressors.

Care to explain why this says to only to be the defend in a fight, but not be hostiles (offenders), and why it says to have mercy when the offenders asks for mercy?

Surah 2:215-217= They ask you about giving: say, "The charity you give shall go to the parents, the relative, the orphans, the poor, and the traveling alien." Any good you do, GOD is fully aware thereof. Fighting may be imposed on you, even though you dislike it. But you may dislike something which is good for you, and you may like something which is bad for you. GOD knows while you do not know. They will question thee concerning the holy month, and fighting in it. Say: 'Fighting in
it is a heinous thing, but to bar from God's way, and disbelief in Him, and the Holy Mosque, and to expel its people from it -- that is more heinous in God's sight; and persecution is more heinous than slaying.' They will not cease to fight with you,
till they turn you from your religion, if they are able; and whosoever of you turns from his religion, and dies disbelieving -- their works have failed in this world and the next; those are the inhabitants of the Fire; therein they shall dwell forever.

This verse was given to Muhammad when he and other Muslims were forced out of their mosque and into fighting during Ramadan. It states that even though it is against our will, there will be some who will want to fight against us. (continued on with next post)

Surah 3:118 = O you who believe, do not befriend outsiders who never cease to wish you harm; they even wish to see you suffer. Hatred flows out of their mouths and what they hide in their chests is far worse. We thus clarify the revelations for you, if you understand.

This is self explanatory, don't you think? This is the actual verse, not the one you misquoted and paraphrased to make it seem "non-muslims" are not to be befriended.

Surah 4:60-62 = Have you noted those who claim that they believe in what was revealed to you, and in what was revealed before you, then uphold the unjust laws of their idols? They were commanded to reject such laws. Indeed, it is the devil's wish to lead them far astray. When they are told, "Come to what GOD has revealed, and to the messenger," you see the hypocrites shunning you completely.How will it be when a disaster hits them, as a consequence of their own works? They will come to you then and swear by GOD: "Our intentions were good and righteous!" GOD is fully aware of their innermost intentions. You shall ignore them, enlighten them, and give them good advice that may save their souls.

Once again, you twisted the words. These verses deal with false Muslims who claim to be "Muslim" to other Muslims, and yet they only lie about being a "Muslim." When the false Muslims fall to a disaster and come to true Muslims for help, the true
Muslims are to ignore their claim that their lie was "good and righteous." The true Muslims then are to enlighten them on Islam.

Surah - 9:7-13 How can the idol worshipers demand any pledge from GOD and from His messenger? Exempted are those who have signed a peace treaty with you. If they honor and uphold such a treaty, you shall uphold it as well. GOD loves the righteous. How can they (demand a pledge) when they never observed any rights of kinship between you and them, nor any covenant, if they ever had a chance to prevail. They pacified you with lip service, while their hearts were in opposition, and most of them are wicked. They traded away GOD's revelations for a cheap price. Consequently, they repulsed the people from His path. Miserable indeed is what they did! They never observe any rights of kinship towards any believer, nor do they uphold their covenants; these are the real transgressors. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor due, then they are your brethren in religion. We detail Our revelations for a people who have knowledge.If they violate their oaths after pledging to keep their covenants, and attack your religion, you may fight the leaders of paganism - you are no longer bound by your covenant with them - that they may refrain. Would you not fight people who violated their treaties, tried to banish the messenger, and they are the ones who started the war in the first place? Are you afraid of them? GOD is the One you are supposed to fear, if you are believers. You shall fight them, for GOD will punish them at your hands, humiliate them, grant you victory over them, and cool the chests of the believers. He will also remove the rage from the believers' hearts. GOD redeems whomever he wills. GOD is Omniscient, Most Wise.

Even again, you miquoted. Notice how you failed to post the verses prior to 9:12, which state that those who choose to have peace with Muslims are not to be harmed, but the ones who do harm or break theor oath of peace and fight will be the ones
Muslims must fight against. Also note how it says that if they ask for forgiveness (repent), then we must have mercy once again. (continued to next post)

You posted "Kill those who refuse to convert. See 9:5." Why not post what it really says? Here is the true Suraah 9:5, which the verse 9:4 too:

Surah 9:4-5 = If the idol worshipers sign a peace treaty with you, and do not violate it, nor band together with others against you, you shall fulfill your treaty with them until the expiration date. GOD loves the righteous. Once the Sacred Months are past, (and they refuse to make peace) you may kill the idol worshipers when you encounter them, punish them, and resist every move they make. If they repent and observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) and give the obligatory charity (Zakat), you shall let them go. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.

Once again, you will notice that Muslims ask for peace. The verses say that as long as the the peace treaty is not violated, we must keep peace. If they choose not to make peace, then they willingly choose to be the enemies, and Muslims have a right
to fight them. But Muslims cannot keep them confined as prisoners if they ask for peace.

Surah 8:56-61 = You reach agreements with them, but they violate their agreements every time; they are not righteous. Therefore, if you encounter them in war, you shall set them up as a deterrent example for those who come after them, that they may take heed. When you are betrayed by a group of people, you shall mobilize against them in the same manner. GOD does not love the betrayers. Let not those who disbelieve think that they can get away with it; they can never escape. You shall prepare for them all the power you can muster, and all the equipment you can mobilize, that you may frighten the enemies of GOD, your enemies, as well as others who are not known to you; GOD knows them. Whatever you spend in the cause of GOD will be repaid to you generously, without the least injustice. And prepare against them what force you can and horses tied at the frontier, to frighten thereby the enemy of Allah and your enemy and others besides them, whom you do not know (but) Allah knows them; and whatever thing you will spend in Allah's way, it will be paid back to you fully and you shall not be dealt with unjustly. If they resort to peace, so shall you, and put your trust in GOD. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient.

What a surprise! Once again it states that we must keep peace with those who ask for peace, and fight those who break peace with us (through war), and once again if they ask for peace, we can give them peace. See how much of a difference it makes
when you don't misquote?

Surah 9:36- = The count of months, as far as GOD is concerned, is twelve. This has been GOD's law, since the day He created the heavens and the earth. Four of them are sacred. This is the perfect religion; you shall not wrong your souls (by
fighting) during the Sacred Months. However, you may declare all-out war against the idol worshipers (even during the Sacred Months), when they declare all-out war against you, and know that GOD is on the side of the righteous. Altering the Sacred Months is a sign of excessive disbelief; it augments the straying of those who have disbelieved. They alternate the Sacred Months and the regular months, while preserving the number of months consecrated by GOD. They thus violate what
GOD has consecrated. Their evil works are adorned in their eyes. GOD does not guide the disbelieving people. O you who believe, when you are told, "Mobilize in the cause of GOD," why do you become heavily attached to the ground? Have you chosen this worldly life in place of the Hereafter? The materials of this world, compared to the Hereafter, are nil. Unless you mobilize, He will commit you to painful retribution and substitute other people in your place; you can never hurt
Him in the least. GOD is Omnipotent. If you fail to support him (the messenger), GOD has already supported him. Thus, when the disbelievers chased him, and he was one of two in the cave, he said to his friend, "Do not worry; GOD is with us."
GOD then sent down contentment and security upon him, and supported him with invisible soldiers (hidden Angels). He made the word of the disbelievers lowly. GOD's word reigns supreme. GOD is Almighty, Most Wise.

Again, if peace is asked, we must advocate peace. Fighting in the sacred months (of Ramadan) is forbiden unless there is no other choice for peace and war is brought on the Muslims. If the Muslims choose not to defend themselves, then they are choosing this worldly life (material world) over the afterlife, and they will be punished.

Surah 9:111-112 = GOD has bought from the believers their lives and their money in exchange for Paradise. Thus, they fight in the cause of GOD, willing to kill and get killed. Such is His truthful pledge in the Torah, the Gospel, and the Quran - and who fulfills His pledge better than GOD? You shall rejoice in making such an exchange. This is the greatest triumph. They are the repenters, the worshipers, the praisers, the meditators, the bowing and prostrating, the advocators of righteousness and forbidders of evil, and the keepers of GOD's laws. Give good news to such believers.

You failed to post the entire verse, once again. This verse states that those who exchange the wants for material goods for rewards in Heaven are the ones who serve God. Those who also fight (only in self defense) are also those who have given up the material world. This verse confirms that all three Abrahmic faiths( Christians, Muslims, and Jews) are united as the same servants of God.

My suggestion to you, if you were truly just copying and pasting what you read from another site, rather than openly deceiving us, is to read the Quran. I am not asking you to convert, I am asking you to know what the Quran really says, rather than the biased and false views those who which to bring harm through ignorance. And please don't make such false statements such as "Most Muslims haven't read the entire Quran" and "Islam is not a religion of peace."

If you would like to learn more about these verses, please read this page. It is a reply by a Muslim Imam and scholar.

islamonline.net

[edit on 17-8-2006 by DJMessiah]

Originally posted by grimreaper797
cutwolf and dg are these really your beliefs? Are you being serious? Im not asking this to act as an attack I simply dont believe what Im reading.

I am sorry to be a dissapointment to you, because i really like you and respect you. I'm not for anything but peace, love and treating people kindly. But, do you see a way out of this mess? Do you have any suggestions? For the love of God, i know Muslim is a "religion" and not people who come from the island of Muslim.
We are all becoming prisoners in a way. We are not even "free" to travel without proving our good intentions. We are ALL suspects.
My suggestion was radical, i'll give you that....but it is so sad feeling this way. I feel as though i'm not a free person, i feel betrayed by this country, i feel pissed by certain people who do nothing but bully people around and this is not all.
Things are going from bad to worse.
Bush accuses the Muslims of perpetrating and persisting plotting against Americans.
He says so. Since that is something lots of people believe, including those who do not want to be racially profiled,my suggestion called for something drastic like some kind of profiling. I dont see any other way, frankly.

The other option is to totally give up all our freedoms and live under this umbrella of suspicion (which is fine with Vall and others) its is not fine or acceptable to me.
I want to be free. I have not commited any crimes. If i wanted to be in prison, i'd go out and commit a crime and get put away. Some here swallow every bit of what they're told.

Sarcasm is the underlying force with my posts here. First of all, i dont believe Bush. I dont beleive 10 planes were going to be blown up. I dont beleive anything of that boogey nature at all. Its all a lie. Go read some of the stuff that has come out- the cell phones purchases..... Its all a freaking joke. The supposed team of lord knows how many that were going to blow up planes...
DIDNT EVEN HAVE PASSPORTS.....Its just sickening.....SO I DO NOT BELIEVE ANY OF THIS....I said what i said about profiling for the benefit of a few.

Sorry if i sounded like the #2 angriest person on ATS.

Originally posted by Springer
WHAT does a Muslim LOOK LIKE?!?!?!?

Let's start with the OBVIOUS:

1. Human Being
2. that about wraps it up.

For crying out loud people, Islam is a RELIGION NOT a RACE, just like Judaism, Catholicism, Hinduism, and any other "ism, "ish" or "ist"! HOW do you "racially profile for a RELIGION?!?!?

Sheesh!

Springer...

Edit to remove "behavioral profiling" after learning new info.



[edit on 8-16-2006 by Springer]

You dont. Hence my suggestion that they either register with the National Bureau of Arabs or get branded.
Give us a little credit for having some intelligence here. Of course, this sounds offensive on my part to say this, but just trying to make a huge point.

[edit on 17-8-2006 by dgtempe]
mod edit, poor word choices

[edit on 17-8-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

Originally posted by SnowDevilThe Quran is a book which preaches violence and intolerance to anyone who is not a muslim. Let me offer a very small subset of teachings from the Quran that illustrate this:

Actually, your so-called quotes are total lies. I don't know where you get those from. You state:

Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kill them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. (But if they desist in their unbelief, then don't kill them.) 2:191-2

The Qur'an states:

002.191
YUSUFALI: And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.

002.192
YUSUFALI: But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

You state:

Fight them until "religion is for Allah." 2:193

The Qur'an states:

002.193
YUSUFALI: And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression.

You state:

War is ordained by Allah, and all Muslims must be willing to fight, whether they like it or not. 2:216

The Qur'an states:

002.216
YUSUFALI: Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not.

www.usc.edu...

I'll post the rest of the actual Qur'an later. Don't be misguided by those who hate Islam to tell you what Islam is really about.

And, because of the demonization of Islam, you will have people like snowdevil taking a shot at 'Ali-Baba any chance they get. This is the real danger in profiling. The classification of others as less than yourself.

And I can guarentee that if the Klan scenerio played out, it wouldn't take more than one phone call to have any profiling of white people nipped in the bud.

The thing that amazes me is that there are people who would be more tan happy to be profiled if it means that they are "safer". Someone said, I can't remember who, when we lose our freedoms, the people will welcome it with open arms.

What evidence suggests that "racial profiling doesn't work"? - I have seen many people tout this over and over again, stating it as if it were fact. While I am certainly not an advocate of racism or bigotry by any stretch, I would like to know why we shouldn't use valid statistical data to prevent further hijackings of giant flying bombs (read as: planes) while still allowing for travel and commerce in a timely fashion.

I would like to hear a logically argued case that in rooting out terror suspects in this particular day and age, at high-volume security checkpoints that permit access to planes, nuclear plants, and other facilities that could potentially be made to incur fatalities in the hundreds, thousands,
or even millions, that security should under no circumstances pay closer attention to people matching the physical description of known previous terrorists and those making active threats against the United States. Because, at the moment, all I'm hearing is "racial profiling doesn't work," but I've seen absolutely zero facts to back it up aside from unrelated stories and cries of racism.

For me this is not an issue of bigotry. This isn't an issue of race or religion. At the moment, this very moment, for the previous half-decade, people matching roughly the description of "Profile X" have been committing terrorist acts, and threatening to kill innocent lives. Next decade, it may be "Profile Y", "Profile Z", or all of the above, but right now, at this present moment in time, it is primarily people who look like "Profile X".

Now I am sure everyone here is familiar with a Venn Diagram, but for those that aren't, check Wikipedia and learn something. en.wikipedia.org...

upload.wikimedia.org, Venn diagram

Now, ignore the exact size of the circles on Wiki, but try to grasp the concept. In this case Circle A represents known terrorists, Circle B represents people who look like "Profile X", and Circle C represents "everyone else".

If you understand the concept of a Venn Diagram, then if Circles A and B overlap to a far greater degree than Circles A and C, it only makes logical sense in the situation I described above to pay closer attention to people who look like "Profile X", until such time as Profile X is no longer the dominant overlapping circle.

What I hope to have just demonstrated is that just because anyone can be a terrorist, it is foolish to ignore statistical data that proves over and over that the majority of your suspects will fall in the overlap between Circle A and Circle B. This doesn't mean that everyone in Circle B is a terrorist, or even that most people in Circle B are. The number of people in Circle B who are terrorists could be as low as 0.0000001%, but if the number of people in Circle A, who look like Circle B is 95%, then it logically makes statistical, mathematical, and reasonable sense to pay closer attention to "Profile X" in the specific situation I have outlined above.

It doesn't mean that you can just walk up and start arresting Profile X, or force them to register their religion or ethnicity, or treat them any different than you would any other human being on Earth.

But if you are in charge of admitting people through a secure checkpoint that allows access to potential kill hundreds, thousands, or millions of innocent people through which almost one million people (and growing) must pass through each month... are you really going to be concerned about people's liberty and feelings, or are you going to be more concerned with mathmatically narrowing down your potential suspects as quickly and accurately as possible using every last tool at your disposal (including statistical datum)?

Me... I'd try my best to be equally courteous to every passenger, and I would certainly not ignore the possibility of a threat from people who do not fit the description of "Profile X". However, I would also not purposely ignore statistical data for the sheer purpose of preventing someone's feelings from being hurt.

This isn't about being denied basic rights, it's not about rounding up people and putting them in camps, it's not about exluding someone from society, or making a pariah out of someone. None of these things are what I am condoning or advocating in any way, shape or form. This is about paying a little extra security attention to people who statistically match the highest percentiles of terrorists before allowing them into a potentially life-threatening situation.

Why is it so impossible to see that there's such an enormous difference between the two?

And how can anyone logically argue a case that we should ignore all statistical data in such situations?


[edit on 17-8-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

Originally posted by DJMessiah

So your standpoint in this is that whatever the group's race that flys planes into buildings should be racially profiled, while others who commit other terroristic acts should be left alone? If you want an example of the KKK being terrorist, then look at:

boston.com

mod edit, link

[edit on 16-8-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

Yes and Im sure the police going after those cases aren't wasting their manpower on black people and are going after whites only. Of course that's racial profiling but does that not count because its on whites?

see, this is what will happen. Its all very well for you to say...."well, you deserve it basically, and if it were me, i wouldnt mind getting searched."

Ok, but how about this:

asian father thrown out of usa


why didnt they let him in? why not him, but they let his family in?
is this what racial profiling is? not merely searching those who look suspect, but not allowing them to into your country either?

see, this is why we muslims get worried about developments such as these.
First, we are told....speak out as moderates.
No-one listens when we do.
Second the ones who DO get heard are the so called "extremists" (i say "so called" because by calling them this, we imply that if you take islam to its extreme, it justifies the murder of innocents....it doesnt)
so, they get heard....we dont.
And trust me when i say, we, the moderates, have as much to fear from these people as non muslims. I hate them. I hate them for what they have done to my religion. But i cant do anything about it. I honestly cant. And i have tried.

We are the ones who will suffer for these idiots....it will be MY children who end up in a community where they are hated because of animals and morons who wouldnt know islam if it came up and smacked them in the face.

but still, stories like the one above, worry me, because they seem to give weight to a scenario which alot of muslims are concerned about.



[edit on 17-8-2006 by geek101]

This is just a heated debate. Remember the BORDER debates? See? They've gone away. Nothing was done...at least no more than was being done 5 years ago...This too, will pass...people will put up with whatever they have to do...
That is how we are being conditioned. Step by step.
The time will come when less and less people will travel by air, and that will be that. They dont like it, they will stay home. that's it.

This too, shall pass. Something bigger will replace it.