Outbreak of black, tar-like sweat in southern Texas?

Well this should not be blown off. Who here is interested in a Team Leaders position
in the Synthetic Organism Research projEct Study (SORES)?

I am going to contact those other people, like the doctor who is takeing it seriously, and find out if they would be interested in the SORES as well. It would be prefered if the TL or project members did such, but I've made contact with people in the past and am willing to do so now. So with that being said, I'm off and am going to attempt communication.

With all of the pages containing obviously people, who are interested and had the time to reply, I thought a project would have been perfect. Keeps the off topic posts nil, and furthers collaboritive efforts.

Not that this thread hasn't done a good job of that, contending perspectives always present interesting results. Great job by the way every one, hopefully this will be figured out and an actual finding can be made.


One last thing, the last post, first link of Mrsdudara's post is a great site, provided also another bit of info on this study;

OLD PARASITE: These drawings were published in 1682. Figure B is described as an unknown parasite.
rgj.com

[edit on 5-6-2006 by ADVISOR]

Possibly true that this is a genetically modified something. Scary.

Can't the CDC address the lyme disease aspect, and the systemic effect on the body? Lyme disease appears to be contagious in many ways that the public should know about. Maybe the CDC could do something about the harrassment Lyme disease doctors get and do something about stripping their licenses etc so other doctors would feel safe diagnosing Lyme. I'm waiting months for a Lyme disease appointment for testing, diagnosis and treatment. I'll have to pay cash even though I have HMO coverage.

On Lymebusters some have said: "Not everyone who has Lyme has Morgellons, but everyone who has Morgellons has Lyme"

Just an opinion that was expressed, but Lyme IS the fastest vectored disease in the USA right now - data gathering is sporadic and the true extent is unknown.

Thank for the Reno Gazette article, I'd read that before, but it was more relevant to me now since I've learned more in the meantime.

So . . . if the video could be true, then things aren't looking so good . . .

If the CDC doesn't have this in their realm of responsibility, who would?

So far, symptom relief for many has been DIY.

Chores to do . . . if only I could hallucinate this away . . .

Diana

I had a hard time with the fact that there was not a big group of MD's "geeking out" over this. I think I found the answers. See this link:

lymerick.ulmarweb.dk...


It explains everything.

[edit on 5-6-2006 by mrsdudara]

Originally posted by ADVISOR
Well this should not be blown off. Who here is interested in a Team Leaders position
in the Synthetic Organism Research projEct Study (SORES)?

I am going to contact those other people, like the doctor who is takeing it seriously, and find out if they would be interested in the SORES as well. It would be prefered if the TL or project members did such, but I've made contact with people in the past and am willing to do so now. So with that being said, I'm off and am going to attempt communication.

With all of the pages containing obviously people, who are interested and had the time to reply, I thought a project would have been perfect. Keeps the off topic posts nil, and furthers collaboritive efforts.

Not that this thread hasn't done a good job of that, contending perspectives always present interesting results. Great job by the way every one, hopefully this will be figured out and an actual finding can be made.


One last thing, the last post, first link of Mrsdudara's post is a great site, provided also another bit of info on this study;

OLD PARASITE: These drawings were published in 1682. Figure B is described as an unknown parasite.
rgj.com

[edit on 5-6-2006 by ADVISOR]

Thank you.

I didn't realize how much it mattered to me anymore to hear someone say they believe this is happening.

Diana

Originally posted by mrsdudara
I had a hard time with the fact that there was not a big group of MD's "geeking out" over this. I think I found the answers. See this link:

lymerick.ulmarweb.dk...


It explains everything.

[edit on 5-6-2006 by mrsdudara]

Yes it does...
for those thatwill read it, it will end the question...

of course, it will have to be looked into, but from the website:

The third area in which spirochetes were common was collagen fibers; the borreliae were wrapped around fibers with their long axis parallel to the fibers.

and:

Since B. burgdorferi first infects skin, the possible protective effect of skin fibroblasts from an antibiotic commonly used to treat Lyme disease, ceftriaxone, was examined. Human foreskin fibroblasts protected B. burgdorferi from the lethal action of a 2-day exposure to ceftriaxone at 1 microgram/mL, 10-20 x MBC. In the absence of fibroblasts, organisms did not survive.

and:

Studies with antibiotics revealed similar morphologic changes although the formation of granules of a much larger size (spheroblast-like structures) was obvious (fig. 5a).

Sorry for the massive quoting, but felt that this was important...

the fibers that are found, as well as the "seeds" and black specs, are in fact, Common defense responses by the lyme organism being attacked by antibiotics

In fact, the only thing it doesn't seem to answer, is if these particular lyme responses, are due to a unique patient type (or additional contagion), since the fibers are not always present...

also, although doctors are familiar with these aspects of lyme, when they are educated to them, many dont read the journals the way they should, and since this is all relativley new... it will take a while, before a common lyme effect, can be properly diagnosed...

hence, all the incorrect diagnoses...
if all doctors read the above link, then it might solve the whole issue, and they could start treating the actual problem, in another way... since the present one, seems to cause as much harm, as good (by lyme treated patients becoming "morgellons" sufferers...



[edit on 5-6-2006 by LazarusTheLong]

DermatechRX seems to be all over this as well.

This link is not as informative as the above, but there is a lot of information here, and I am sure will also make a believer out of anyone who is in doubt. It also has a lot of pics.

Originally posted by LazarusTheLong
[


Sorry for the massive quoting, but felt that this was important...

the fibers that are found, as well as the "seeds" and black specs, are in fact, Common defense responses by the lyme organism being attacked by antibiotics

In fact, the only thing it doesn't seem to answer, is if these particular lyme responses, are due to a unique patient type (or additional contagion), since the fibers are not always present...

also, although doctors are familiar with these aspects of lyme, when they are educated to them, many dont read the journals the way they should, and since this is all relativley new... it will take a while, before a common lyme effect, can be properly diagnosed...

hence, all the incorrect diagnoses...
if all doctors read the above link, then it might solve the whole issue, and they could start treating the actual problem, in another way... since the present one, seems to cause as much harm, as good (by lyme treated patients becoming "morgellons" sufferers...



[edit on 5-6-2006 by LazarusTheLong]

I cannot take antibiotics because I had Valley Fever and that could get the cocci going again . . . maybe that is why I haven't had the fibers? (No antibiotics)

If Greta posts, I would like to ask Greta if her doctor was on antibiotics when he started to have the fibers come out of his hand after he touched her fibers.

I would like to find out what happened to the cluster of fibers found in her thumb that her doctor will examine again today.

Diana

I think I saw this in an episode of X-files

I'd say the lyme defenses makes sense. That or aliens. it's always the aliens.

Originally posted by questionhair
to hear someone say they believe

Hey, what about me? I wagered my soul! Do I get a warm fuzzy?

great thread. gonna keep following this.

Originally posted by puzzlepiece
Try to burn one with a lighter. No kidding I got the idea from "The Thing". They bolt!

It could be a thermal reaction, much like frog legs jump with electricity. I am just speculating, but near a flame pressure could build up within the fibers until they burst creating a propelling effect. I doubt that they have anything close to nerve cells to translate heat.

You are among the serious minded in this forum, so you should not run into "debunking". I think you were referring to the herd at large. And no, no one is screwed unless we just give up.

I have a hunch ADVISOR will take the charge into battle once the lay of the land is known. I have yet to check in with him to find what what my part can be, and all together the SORES campaign can be waged collectively under the ATS banner. Such is my vision.

I plan on changing my avatar when I become engaged, so people here in the know will be aware of why I will be suddenly so scarce on other threads while I am active using my resources on the campaign.

Very interesting times indeed.

regarding the antibiotics...
I guess i over assumed...
the various reactions seemed to be based upon medicines used, and other environmental factors, even down to the location on the body..

But essentially, it does help explain why some people have the major symptoms, and some people only get minor symptoms...

it means, we could all be infected, and reinfected daily, but the infection only shows in a small percentage of people...

sort of like a bacterial infection, that is harmless to 99% of people, but causes a life threatening illness in immune deficient patients...

Different chokes for different folks...

Does anyone watch the 4400, the marathon the other nite got me thinkin, could this be engineered for one specific set of people, like are people that are affected moreso than others, have a dna chain different from the others. I dont mean drastically different, like one code diff or something. I dont know, im just grasping for straws now. Any thoughts?

Originally posted by LazarusTheLong
regarding the antibiotics...
I guess i over assumed...
the various reactions seemed to be based upon medicines used, and other environmental factors, even down to the location on the body..

But essentially, it does help explain why some people have the major symptoms, and some people only get minor symptoms...

it means, we could all be infected, and reinfected daily, but the infection only shows in a small percentage of people...

sort of like a bacterial infection, that is harmless to 99% of people, but causes a life threatening illness in immune deficient patients...

Different chokes for different folks...

I've been thinking about antibiotics - lately people were into high-protein diets and at the same time soy was pushed as a health drink and food - but soy affects the thyroid, and possibly reduces the immune system. (read that on Mercola)

And, the high-protein diets could have increased consumption of beef. Hasn't the cattle industry been feeding cattle antibiotics to increase weight gain in a shorter amount of time? Maybe those antibiotics go through to people when they eat beef. (I stopped eating beef when Mad Cow came out in the news and I read that the testing process wasn't effective)

I used to drink a lot of milk, but haven't the past year.

Not sure about poultry being a source of antibiotics, but I ate chicken and eggs a lot but have switched to organic food where possible and barely ate meat the past year.

Increased Beef and Soy could have lowered immunity and triggered something already existing in the body - the borrelia?

I really believe that the Morgellons sufferers who haven't been able to make diet changes continue to get worse - its the ones who have changed to a healthy lifestyle that post how much better they are doing and share their tips.

Yet, it doesn't totally go away, just reduced with lifestyle / diet / environmental changes.

Warm thanks,

Diana



[edit on 7-6-2006 by questionhair]

it isn't just speculation... Antibiotics in cows do pass thru, via beef, and dairy... which has been one of the factors of the man made creation of antibiotic resistant superbugs...

and if that wasn't enough... Mad cow has recently been discovered to pass thru to milk, in cattle that have infected udders (a common malady among the machine milked herds).

but back to the topic...

nothing can be assumed yet, only construed...
and it seems that lyme, and springtails are connected to this issue...

LAZ
it seems that lyme, and springtails are connected to this issue

Don't overlook the other component. Fungi.

As you pointed out earlier, all humans have natural fungi as part of their flora. The question then becomes, what would make fungi flourish enough that springtails would invade a human host? Generally I would say broad antibiotics killing off good bacteria, which then allows fungi to flourish, however Morgellons Reseach says that the symptoms are reduced with the application of antibiotics. That leaves me with a conundrum.

*

About the Lyme, is there a clear indication of Lyme? I have not done much research on that side of it, so please feel free to enlighten me. But I do see some problems with this.

questionhair posted a link to Morgellens Research, which infered that 30 of 31 clients tested positive for Lyme, using Western Blots. In addition, questionhair indicated that Igenex was their preferred tester.

However, the CDC/ASTPHLD has clearly stated that criteria for IgG Western blot equire 5 of 10 bands (antibodies) and that IgM Western blot two of three bands for a positive result with the western blots, because many other antibodies that can cause a false positive. Contrary to this requirement, Igenex has taken it upon themselves to use a more liberal interpretation of what constitues a positive result, as can be seen from their documentation.

Igenex includes both the IGeneX and the CDC/ASTPHLD criteria in the report form sent to the physician. Which leaves me to wonder which criteria the Morgellons Research Foundation choose to consider as positive, and if they choose to follow up those with a ANA/DNA/rheumatoid factor screen to rule out false positives on all 30 clients as Igenex reccomends?

Lets say for a moment that they are false positives. What other antibodies can show false positives from the Western blots? Can any of those be shown to be related to this disorder?


Just thinking out loud...






[edit on 6/7/06 by makeitso]

Often antibiotics are given to viral disease sufferers, even though viruses dont have anything to do with antibiotics...

it is to prevent an opportunistic bacterial infection from the viral disease damage...
(i.e. Viral pnuemonia sufferers often take antibiotics to prevent a bacterial pnuemonia from developing also)

Antibiotics will help in alot of ways... but not neccessarily in the ways we think... so someone getting a little relief from them, doesn't really answer any questions... it just creates more...

like what kind of antibiotics seem to help...
do other types do more harm than good?

Originally posted by LazarusTheLong


nothing can be assumed yet, only construed...
and it seems that lyme, and springtails are connected to this issue...

The 18 out of 20 people who had microscopic collembola in the NPA study is compelling, but . . .

Dr. Randy Wymore: " . . . Thus far, no DNA fragment has been amplified from the Morgellons samples . . ."

www.morgellons.org...

Diana

Originally posted by makeitso

LAZ
it seems that lyme, and springtails are connected to this issue

Don't overlook the other component. Fungi.

As you pointed out earlier, all humans have natural fungi as part of their flora. The question then becomes, what would make fungi flourish enough that springtails would invade a human host? Generally I would say broad antibiotics killing off good bacteria, which then allows fungi to flourish, however Morgellons Reseach says that the symptoms are reduced with the application of antibiotics. That leaves me with a conundrum.

*

About the Lyme, is there a clear indication of Lyme? I have not done much research on that side of it, so please feel free to enlighten me. But I do see some problems with this.



[edit on 6/7/06 by makeitso]

Here's where the problem is, the big elephant in the room that no one seems to see. The CDC is fully aware of all the issues, the scientific research, the fact that Morgellons patients are not being diagnosed with science, but by doctor's opinions only - a quick DOP diagnosis just based on the doctor hearing the patient describe the strange symptoms. And, the CDC is certainly aware that the Morgellons patients, and their elected representatives have been contacting them and asking them what they are doing about this.

I'm going to add information in several posts, mostly links and quotes, with apologies, but I'm no scientist, just someone frustrated with doctors who didn't even do serious examination or any testing whatsoever for these strange symptoms, but instead jumped to a conclusion that I was imagining these things. So, I'm just a layman who tried to find answers when my doctors didn't believe me.

====
Excerpts from Sleuthing Lyme by Jenny Jedeikin - May 1, 2006

sfgate.com.../chronicle/archive/2006/05/01/EDGK5IFLNN1.DTL

" . . . the CDC recently warned the public that some private medical laboratories may be overdiagnosing positive results of Lyme disease to better their business.

Independent scientific studies suggest this is not true.

The discrepancy stems from the fact that the CDC's recommended test for Lyme uses far too narrow criteria for recognizing the illness. Its approved enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay (or ELISA) Lyme test has been shown to be only 65 percent accurate, according to testimony given in a state Senate Committee on Health and Human Services' investigation of the matter; even less so when the test is done several months after a patient has been infected.

A Palo Alto laboratory, IGeneX, tests for additional Lyme antigens. After the government-recommended ELISA test missed chronic Lyme disease in bestselling author, Amy Tan, IGeneX detected Lyme antibodies. Tan had seen 10 doctors who had missed it, too. . .

. . . In New York state proficiency tests, IGeneX has received a score of better than 95 percent, and, out of 58 labs tested, only IGeneX, had a perfect score for its Western "blot proficiency test. . .

. . . The CDC needs to re-examine its scientific criteria for defining Lyme disease and the testing that reveals it. Until they do, doctors will continue to lack adequate education about this illness; people will continue to suffer its terrible symptoms and those who are being treated will continue to have to pay prodigious medical bills that should be covered by insurance. . ."

From Health Freedom Solutions - Richard Bierman

www.healthfreedomsolutions.com...

25. What has the CDC determined to be the proper testing procedure for
confirming that a patient does or does not have Lyme disease?

TRICK question- The CDC states emphatically that Lyme tests are NOT to be
used to exclude a diagnosis of Lyme disease. A negative test is NOT to be
considered absolute by any means... nor is it to be used to indicate a cure.
As the CDC states, Lyme disease is a 'clinical diagnosis'. No test has been
developed that can confirm a patient is 'cured' of Lyme disease.

26. What is the two tier testing procedure set up by the CDC for testing
patients suspected of having Lyme disease and what are the most common
problems with this procedure?

Doctors have been instructed (CDC guidelines) to obtain an ELISA (titer)
first, which, under the best circumstances, only identifies 40-50 percent of
those who actually have Lyme disease. An ELISA should NOT be used as a
screening test due to the unreliable results. The guidelines state, if the
ELISA is positive, physicians are to perform a Western Blot test which,
under the best circumstances, only identifies 70-80 percent of those who
have been exposed. Most labs do not report specific bands on the Western
Blot tests, hindering the experienced physician and the diagnosis even
further. This procedure allows many cases of Lyme disease to be missed,
therefore, patients are not being identified or properly treated. The CDC
guidelines also state which specific bands on a Western Blot are to be used
to consider a test positive. When the list was developed, certain bands
specific for Lyme disease, were not included. When these bands are positive,
it confirms exposure, but it is mistakenly reported to the doctor and
patient as a 'negative test'. Many 'borderline tests' are reported to
patients, by the physician, as being negative and many positive tests are
reported to be 'false-positive' because physicians are not familiar with
reading test results, nor with the multiple symptoms that can occur in a
person with Lyme disease, and the connection between the two is missed. Many
patients who have chronic Lyme disease will have low titers or seronegative
results.

27. Which bands normally show up first on a Western Blot test? Which bands
are specific for Lyme disease? Which bands normally appear after the patient
has had Lyme for at least one year?

The first Western Blot band to show positive is normally the 41KD band
followed intermittently by the 23KD band. Bands 18KD, 23-25KD, 31KD, 34KD,
37KD, 39KD, 83KD and 93KD are specific for indicating Bb exposure. The
problem is they may not show up early in the infectious stages or may not
appear for a year or more, or they may not show up at all. The ILADS 2002
Guidelines state that the presence of the 41KD band along with one of the
specific bands listed above indicates a person has been exposed to Lyme
disease.

28. List reasons why a Lyme test may not be accurate.

1. Antibiotic use prior to testing
2. Patient has been on steroids or cancer drugs
3. Antibodies are bound by bacteria
4. Immunosupression
5. The bacteria has shifted forms
6. Lab standards for cut off are too high
7. The test was performed too early or before antibodies had a chance to
form
8. Bands checked are for reporting purposes, not for clinical diagnosis
9. Poor lab used that does not specialize in tick borne illnesses
10. Contamination of specimen
11. Various strains are not identified using standard tests



34. What is an ACA?

ACA (acrodermatitis chronica atrophicans) is a skin rash normally seen in
patients with late stage Lyme disease which is usually attributed to
Borrelia afzelii. It is sometimes mistaken for scleroderma. The ACA rash
indicates ongoing chronic infection.