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Originally posted by ShadowXIX
The US has had a much better nuclear first strike abilitly then Russia for years thanks to the B-2 and stealth Cruise missiles. Options Russia lacks at this time.
But even that is a moot point thanks to the nuclear armed subs in both Navies. You could take out every land based nuke weapon on both sides and the hidden subs would have more then enough power to decimate either country.
Moscow's civilian shelters are a joke mainly made up of the subways. The would easily be destroyed with earth pentrating nukes. Even Russias most secure underground base Yamantau Mountain complex is not invincible to nuclear weapons. Though they are addmitted "weapon sinks" and would require multiply nuclear strikes to destroy.
Nuclear Winter is quite real just ask the Dinosaurs oh wait you cant because of Nuclear winter caused by a asteroid. Whats debatable is if the ombined nuclear arsenals in the US and USSR at its height were enough to cause this effect.
[edit on 24-1-2006 by ShadowXIX]
Originally posted by Derek Trance
it's M.A.D.
Mutual Assured Destruction.
I can launch all my # before your # hits me.
We all die.
So don't do it.
-DT
Originally posted by Stratrf_Rus
The Nuclear Winter theory required that every Nuclear Bomb was used evenly across the Earth's surface, there that already is a rediculous condition because who would Nuke the middle of the Sahara or other dirt clods?
Originally posted by Stratrf_Rus
Also, the amount of Atomics to be used are not enough, most are 300-750 KT and that's paltry compared to the experimental yields of 9MT by the US or 20-25MT by Russia. But those larger weapons are never used combatively, yet the report considered only those weapons.
Originally posted by Stratrf_Rus
Crater flats in the US saw literally thousands of Nuclear tests, and the entire area is still liveable (comparitively) and though even it was over many years, if you were to expell that much dirt into the atmosphere at once, it still would be the equivalent of a Mt. Pinatubo (which was huge).
Originally posted by Stratrf_Rus
And finally, there's no evidence that the KT impact caused any extinction, as many species were going extinct before the impact, and many continued to go extinct long after the impact.
Originally posted by ShadowXIX
Originally posted by Stratrf_Rus
The Nuclear Winter theory required that every Nuclear Bomb was used evenly across the Earth's surface, there that already is a rediculous condition because who would Nuke the middle of the Sahara or other dirt clods?
No the nuclear winter theory was about massive amounts of combustable material ie (cites) going up in flames as result of being nuked. Thinking is that would put enough material into the air to cause a nuclear winter type event. It had nothing to do with nuking deserts in Africa.
Originally posted by Stratrf_Rus
Also, the amount of Atomics to be used are not enough, most are 300-750 KT and that's paltry compared to the experimental yields of 9MT by the US or 20-25MT by Russia. But those larger weapons are never used combatively, yet the report considered only those weapons.
9MT and 20MT are not experimental yeilds the largest nuke is currently in the US arsenal is the 9MT Mk/B-53. Russia still has 20MT nukes in its arsenal. You right though there has been a shift to smaller nuclear weapons in the hundreds of KT range but a single missile will contain 8-12 of those that can hit different target very far apart causing more damage on a whole then a large single nuke.
Originally posted by Stratrf_Rus
Crater flats in the US saw literally thousands of Nuclear tests, and the entire area is still liveable (comparitively) and though even it was over many years, if you were to expell that much dirt into the atmosphere at once, it still would be the equivalent of a Mt. Pinatubo (which was huge).
Crater flats has not seen thousands of nuclear test. All the nuclear powers combined have only tested about 2000 nuclear warheads to date combined, spread over many decades alot of which were underground. These test also didnt set massive cities ablaze either most in the US were conducted in deserts or underground were there aint much to burn.
Originally posted by Stratrf_Rus
And finally, there's no evidence that the KT impact caused any extinction, as many species were going extinct before the impact, and many continued to go extinct long after the impact.
LOL you got to be kidding we have a crater from a massive impact at pretty much the exact time most of the dinosaurs died off. They also found a larger impact that fits the timescale for the larger "Great dying" extinction, which killed off a even higher percent of earths life.
We have these massive extinctions in the blink of a eye in earths history and find proof of massive impacts at just about the same time. 1 + 1 = 2
Your right though the the world is not a fragile ball of porceline but living creatures such as humans are. 99% of all life that has ever lived on earth is now extinct. The vast vast majority of life that ever lived on earth is now dead without the help of created WMDs.
You also still have not even factored in the Chemical and Bio weapons Russia and the US have into your equation. You think they would save them in the event of a nuclear war?
Just using the weaponized version of smallpox could kill off more people then the nukes in countries Russia or the US never aimed at.
LOL you got to be kidding we have a crater from a massive impact at pretty much the exact time most of the dinosaurs died off. They also found a larger impact that fits the timescale for the larger "Great dying" extinction, which killed off a even higher percent of earths life.
We have these massive extinctions in the blink of a eye in earths history and find proof of massive impacts at just about the same time. 1 + 1 = 2
Originally posted by Stratrf_Rus
First off - there is no weaponized version of smallpox.
Originally posted by Stratrf_Rus
This is just rediculous.
First...no they didn't discover a meteorite impact for the "great dying" as you call it...we who actually know what we're talking about like to call it the Late Permian Extinction.
Second, the Permian extinction has no connection to a meteorite, it's thought to be caused by Mantle Pluming (do you know what that is?) and it also occurred over a few million years.
A team led by Luann Becker of UC Santa Barbara published a paper in Science documenting evidence of a large impact crater in northwestern Australia at the time of the Permian-Triassic extinction
Originally posted by Stratrf_Rus
PS: Because Russia doesn't have it's Biologics and Chemical weapons ready to launch on anything that is long enough ranged, they would not be used in a Nuclear exchange.
Originally posted by ShadowXIX
Originally posted by Stratrf_Rus
First off - there is no weaponized version of smallpox.
Are you kidding? Russia weaponized smallpox decades ago. The full extent of the Soviet bioweapons program in the 1970s and 80s, focused on smallpox.
Read "Biohazard" or "Demon in the Freezer" they are both great books on the subject. If your not into books do a internet search weaponized small pox has been known about for years.
Originally posted by Stratrf_Rus
This is just rediculous.
First...no they didn't discover a meteorite impact for the "great dying" as you call it...we who actually know what we're talking about like to call it the Late Permian Extinction.
Second, the Permian extinction has no connection to a meteorite, it's thought to be caused by Mantle Pluming (do you know what that is?) and it also occurred over a few million years.
The Permian extinction and the Great Dying are one in the same and yes I know what mantle pluming is. For one that thinks he is such a expert on the Great Dying you would think you would stay alittle more current on the topic.
A team led by Luann Becker of UC Santa Barbara published a paper in Science documenting evidence of a large impact crater in northwestern Australia at the time of the Permian-Triassic extinction
welcome to a few years ago caught up yet? How many smoking guns you need before you can make the connection? Perhaps you know better then the majority of paleontologist which except impacts like those of the KT impact to be the cause of the Dinosaurs extinction.
geology.about.com...
Originally posted by Stratrf_Rus
PS: Because Russia doesn't have it's Biologics and Chemical weapons ready to launch on anything that is long enough ranged, they would not be used in a Nuclear exchange.
This is pretty funny since Russia's plan for nuclear war always called for a second wave of bio and chemical missiles after a nuclear first strike. The russians where very calculated when they planned the US destruction.
Pretty much every long range missile in Russias arsenal can be fitted with a chemical or bio load. What did you think they make these deadly weapons and leave them in tanks and tubes?
[edit on 25-1-2006 by ShadowXIX]
welcome to a few years ago caught up yet? How many smoking guns you need before you can make the connection? Perhaps you know better then the majority of paleontologist which except impacts like those of the KT impact to be the cause of the Dinosaurs extinction.
What did you think they make these deadly weapons and leave them in tanks and tubes?
Originally posted by Stratrf_Rus
Russia has never declared that they have weaponized Small Pox, and no spy or any other informant who would have gotten close enough to such a project would have lived to tell the tale.
The authors of these books you suggested know no more about Small Pox in Russia than they do about Mt. Yanamau...
Originally posted by ShadowXIX
Originally posted by Stratrf_Rus
Russia has never declared that they have weaponized Small Pox, and no spy or any other informant who would have gotten close enough to such a project would have lived to tell the tale.
The authors of these books you suggested know no more about Small Pox in Russia than they do about Mt. Yanamau...
Oh yes Im sure you know better then the authors of these books. Perhaps you know better then Ken Alibek (Kanatjan Alibekov), one of BIO weapon programs directors. He reveals the programs extent in the book BioHazard since he ran it. He clearly stated through the 1970s and 80s the progarm focused on smallpox. But Im sure you know better then him.
The USSR had the most advanced Bio weapons program in the world. When the US announced the were halting all work in the field the Soviets redoubled their effort.
I see your unaware or turn a blind eye to the horrors the Soviets created in their labs. Perhaps they where just sitting on their collective thumbs during those decades of Bio weapon work.
[edit on 25-1-2006 by ShadowXIX]
Originally posted by Stratrf_Rus
No Bio Weapon has ever sat at the top of a Rocket.
Russia could prepare to use them, but they are not on stand-by.