Iran rejects Russia's offer

TEHRAN, Iran (CNN) -- Iran's chief nuclear negotiator has rejected a Russian offer to produce nuclear fuel in its plants for Iran, the latest effort to resolve a diplomatic impasse over Tehran's nuclear program.

Speaking on state-run television Sunday, Ali Larijani argued the offer would deny his nation's right to "be in charge of its own fate" on energy matters.
www.cnn.com...

Didn't see that coming. I guess the next step is the security council. It seems we may have some answers to some of the "what if" questions posed on ATS in the not too distant future.

Those poor Iranian's, how would they ever build a nuclear weapon if their uranium is enriched overseas HAHA

Those poor Iranian's how are they ever going to build Nuclear weapons when we sit on the eve of bombing there reactors so hard that there will be nothing left but radioactive dust.

Originally posted by NumberCruncher
Those poor Iranian's how are they ever going to build Nuclear weapons when we sit on the eve of bombing there reactors so hard that there will be nothing left but radioactive dust.

And they will reply using there own NBC weapons - if they are going to get galssed then they will hit back - BAC bombs on israel and iraq.


its not going to happen - any weapons programme is so widly dispersed that one strike or 50 won`t stop it - that and IMO , they have at least 1 bomb anyway (proberly fron NK or PAK)

and even with tanking no strike package can hit the north of the country with tanking over iran itself - big BIG atrgets for the SMA`s and Airforce.



So , you think its `fine` to hit another countries nuclear reactors? that sort of thinking will just mean then next target in CONUS will be a nuclear reactor as well. And a working one.

Originally posted by Harlequin
And they will reply using there own NBC weapons - if they are going to get galssed then they will hit back - BAC bombs on israel and iraq.

They wouldn't dare attack Israel with WMD's. They wouldn't risk national death from a retalitory Israeli nuclear strike. Iran stands no chance in a WMD war with Israel.

its not going to happen - any weapons programme is so widly dispersed that one strike or 50 won`t stop it - that and IMO , they have at least 1 bomb anyway (proberly fron NK or PAK)

There are really only 2 targets - the reactor itself and enrichment facilites. Knock either one of those out and they can't build a bomb. As for Iran having a nuke, care to provide anymore information.

and even with tanking no strike package can hit the north of the country with tanking over iran itself - big BIG atrgets for the SMA`s and Airforce.

Well the Israeli's could quite easily com across the Turkish boarder into northern Iran. They train with the Turks regularly. The F-15I has a 4450km, which is more than enough even from Israeli territory wothout refuelling.

So , you think its `fine` to hit another countries nuclear reactors? that sort of thinking will just mean then next target in CONUS will be a nuclear reactor as well. And a working one.

Just how would you propose a reactor in America would be attacked ? Terrorists can't even scratch them. I doubt someone is going to fly a bomber into the US

They wouldn't dare attack Israel with WMD's. They wouldn't risk national death from a retalitory Israeli nuclear strike. Iran stands no chance in a WMD war with Israel.

yes they would actually - if they get hit by nukes , they will throw NBC weapons back - bio weapons or chem bombs - of which they have ALOT of.


And if they get glassed , then they will not be overly worried at any reply to gassing the israelies.

There are really only 2 targets - the reactor itself and enrichment facilites. Knock either one of those out and they can't build a bomb. As for Iran having a nuke, care to provide anymore information

The us ambassador to turkey said as much last week - Iran has nukes.

and you say `enrichment facilities` - who says they don`t have more than one centrafuge (as an example)?

Well the Israeli's could quite easily com across the Turkish boarder into northern Iran. They train with the Turks regularly. The F-15I has a 4450km, which is more than enough even from Israeli territory wothout refuelling

that sort of range is `pure fuel mode`or best ferry range as for each store you hang off a wing you loose a fuel tank

so in reality , a combat range of 1,000km`s is more realistic having a `capable` war load per plane. And don`t forget the F-16`s don`t have the legs of the strike eagles (which the F-15I`s are with small electronic`s changes)

Just how would you propose a reactor in America would be attacked ? Terrorists can't even scratch them. I doubt someone is going to fly a bomber into the US

fly a plane into one? buy some explosives that seem to go missing each year and cut a hole in the side of one? remember that story about a reporter walking up to the side of a running reactor without being challeneged by security? security hasn`t changed 1 bit since 9/11 in many areas

[edit on 2-1-2006 by Harlequin]

Originally posted by Harlequin

They wouldn't dare attack Israel with WMD's. They wouldn't risk national death from a retalitory Israeli nuclear strike. Iran stands no chance in a WMD war with Israel.

yes they would actually - if they get hit by nukes , they will throw NBC weapons back - bio weapons or chem bombs - of which they have ALOT of.

Israel has hundreds of nuclear weapons and many of them are large yield Thermonuclear weapons. If the Israeli's carried out a preemptive nuclear strike, they'd have more than enough warheads to hit every facility of significance in Iran. Israel also has its own CB weapons as well. Also how is Iran going to get these weapons to Israel, sure they have a few long range rockets, which aren't that accurate and carry a small payload of CBW.

And if they get glassed , then they will not be overly worried at any reply to gassing the israelies.

If they were ' glassed ' they wouldn't have anything to hit the Israeli's with. MOSSAD is probably the most efficient intelligence gathering operation in the world, you can be sure they know where if not all, 99% of Iranian NBC facilities and deployment areas are.

There are really only 2 targets - the reactor itself and enrichment facilities. Knock either one of those out and they can't build a bomb. As for Iran having a nuke, care to provide anymore information

The us ambassador to turkey said as much last week - Iran has nukes.

So that is the official line of the US government now ?

and you say `enrichment facilities` - who says they don`t have more than one centrafuge (as an example)?

They probably;y do, but they don't have scores of them, not enough equipment has been sold to them.

Well the Israeli's could quite easily com across the Turkish boarder into northern Iran. They train with the Turks regularly. The F-15I has a 4450km, which is more than enough even from Israeli territory wothout refuelling

that sort of range is `pure fuel mode`or best ferry range as for each store you hang off a wing you loose a fuel tank.

so in reality , a combat range of 1,000km`s is more realistic having a `capable` war load per plane. And don`t forget the F-16`s don`t have the legs of the strike eagles (which the F-15I`s are with small electronic`s changes)

Well if you looked at the map again and what I said about Turkey, then 1000 km can reach most of Iran. Combat radius of the F-15I is 1270 km. Not to mention the planes would be mid air refuelled just across the boarder in Turkey, on the way there and back. They wouldn't carry a full weapons load anyway, they'd carry a few conformal fuel tanks and maybe 10 000 pounds of ordnance a piece.

Just how would you propose a reactor in America would be attacked ? Terrorists can't even scratch them. I doubt someone is going to fly a bomber into the US

fly a plane into one? buy some explosives that seem to go missing each year and cut a hole in the side of one? remember that story about a reporter walking up to the side of a running reactor without being challeneged by security? security hasn`t changed 1 bit since 9/11 in many areas

It would have to be a passenger plane, hitting a precise spot to crack the reactor vessel. Also it wouldn't be that easy to find from the air. The Twin Towers and the Pentagon were distinctive ' soft ' targets - a reactor is an entirely different scenario.
As for explosives have you ever seen a reactor containment vessel, they are over a meter thick and would require tons of explsoives in the right spot. A truck bomb in other words, you can be sure no terrorist would be able to get one in.

Iran won't risk national death (as stated above) by attacking Isreal. They have to know that Isreal would retaliate 10 fold. It would get ugly really fast. Unfortunately, the only way to prevent this is preemptive action on the part of the only two powers seemingly capable and willing to act: Isreal and the United States.

Israel has hundreds of nuclear weapons and many of them are large yield Thermonuclear weapons. If the Israeli's carried out a preemptive nuclear strike, they'd have more than enough warheads to hit every facility of significance in Iran. Israel also has its own CB weapons as well. Also how is Iran going to get these weapons to Israel, sure they have a few long range rockets, which aren't that accurate and carry a small payload of CBW.

yes they have LOTS of iilegal nuclear weapons - but iran doesn`t have ` a few` they have alot - and bio or chem loads don`t need to be acurate , they just need to vaguely reach the target - a cep os 1 mile+ isactually enough ; were not talking about hitting a minuteman silo here - it`ll be towns/cities.

f they were ' glassed ' they wouldn't have anything to hit the Israeli's with. MOSSAD is probably the most efficient intelligence gathering operation in the world, you can be sure they know where if not all, 99% of Iranian NBC facilities and deployment areas are.

yes they would - russia would hit them - why? because russia wouldn`t stand for having a radioactive slg pile on its border (if the entire country got hit)

they have said as much as well.

So that is the official line of the US government now ?

doesn`t matter if it is . or it isn`t - it what has been reported by the news agencies and by the Turkish Prime minister.

Well if you looked at the map again and what I said about Turkey, then 1000 km can reach most of Iran. Combat radius of the F-15I is 1270 km. Not to mention the planes would be mid air refuelled just across the boarder in Turkey, on the way there and back. They wouldn't carry a full weapons load anyway, they'd carry a few conformal fuel tanks and maybe 10 000 pounds of ordnance a piece.

for a precision attack , they will need the heavy bombs - 907kg`s , which you can only carry 1 per hard point - thats 4 per aircraft ; i also cannot see turkey helping the israelies in this - they will have to fly across iraq - and again i cannot see iraw giving permisson , and if the israelies do anyway (which they will) with american help , it will just inflame the situation in iraw further..
a big `what if` - what if turkey defend there own airspace from israel intrusion?

explosives *snip*

what i mean is , that there have been hundreds of meters of det cord and speicalist cutting explosives have gone missing from a site in new mexico

www.cnn.com...

About 400 pounds of high explosives and 150 pounds of commercial plastic explosives were taken from the business, which is licensed to store them, said Tom Mangan, spokesman for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

The explosives were military-like, but not military-issue, Mangan said.

its the missing sheet explosives which can be used to cut through a wall - or bring down the building

[edit on 2-1-2006 by Harlequin]

Originally posted by Harlequin
yes they have LOTS of iilegal nuclear weapons - but iran doesn`t have ` a few` they have alot - and bio or chem loads don`t need to be acurate , they just need to vaguely reach the target - a cep os 1 mile+ isactually enough ; were not talking about hitting a minuteman silo here - it`ll be towns/cities.

Actually a CEP of a mile is far too inaccurate fro CB weapons. They don;t have the capacity to carry enough agent to the target and they don't have that many missiles which can reach Israel. Chemical Weapons are only effective en masse. Then of course the wind and temperature condiytions have to be right. Same with bio weapons, I doubt the Iranians have anything more potent than the standard bacteria.

yes they would - russia would hit them - why? because russia wouldn`t stand for having a radioactive slg pile on its border (if the entire country got hit)

they have said as much as well.

That makes sense, Russia will risk the inevitable Israeli nuclear counter attack. The argument makes no sense. Find me a link where this is official Russian policy. Also you do know that Russia doesn't even border Iran.

doesn`t matter if it is . or it isn`t - it what has been reported by the news agencies and by the Turkish Prime minister.

Ahem, I thought you said it was the US ambassador to Turkey who said it

for a precision attack , they will need the heavy bombs - 907kg`s , which you can only carry 1 per hard point - thats 4 per aircraft

That's right properly placed 4 aircraft with 16 2000lb's could easily render a reactor useless with very heavy damage. If the pile is n operation then the site will be irradiated.

i also cannot see turkey helping the israelies in this - they will have to fly across iraq - and again i cannot see iraw giving permisson , and if the israelies do anyway (which they will) with american help , it will just inflame the situation in iraw further..
a big `what if` - what if turkey defend there own airspace from israel intrusion?

The Turkish and Israeli's train very closely together, Israeli pilots train in Turkey all the time. Also Turkey is no friend of Iran and have suspected Iran of supporting the PKK at various times.

its the missing sheet explosives which can be used to cut through a wall - or bring down the building

Yes for a normal wall of building but not a meter thick reinforced wall, that would requires hundreds of kg's if not more than a ton of HE. Even if you do that, then what, you hvae a hole in the wall, the reactor chamber is still untouched.
Have you ever seen the video where they tested the strength of a reactor wall using an F-4 phantom on a rocket sled. The F-4 literally disintegrated, barely scratching the wall. The wall did move back a foot, only because it was a free standing slab in the desert.

Harlequin time to concede defeat son.

Mad Scientist your posts are great to read, are you ex Military?

Originally posted by NumberCruncher
Harlequin time to concede defeat son.

no boy, i won`t - this is what a conversation is all about - if you have little to add them don`t bother to reply.

Originally posted by Harlequin

Originally posted by NumberCruncher
Harlequin time to concede defeat son.

no boy, i won`t - this is what a conversation is all about - if you have little to add them don`t bother to reply.

My comment to you was just a sidekick in the question i directly at the obviously talented and Educated master of strategy Mad Scientist.

Im interested in your claim of Iran having "Alot" of nuclear weopondry, you dream that up or can you back that up ?

Actually a CEP of a mile is far too inaccurate fro CB weapons. They don;t have the capacity to carry enough agent to the target and they don't have that many missiles which can reach Israel. Chemical Weapons are only effective en masse. Then of course the wind and temperature condiytions have to be right. Same with bio weapons, I doubt the Iranians have anything more potent than the standard bacteria.

as you have said yourself wind and temperature condtions have to right - which of course tactical planning will take in to effect.

and the CEP of the ianian missles is much better than 1 mile , , but even so , 1 mile IS enough to effect collateral damage when using BAC agents. The persistance of BAC agents is much greater than radiological agents - scrap teh top meter and seal it , and thats the rad count dealt with (they did that after the ground burts test in new mexico) the problem with bio agents and chem agents is the fact that it gets everywhere and `sticks` to everything , even when you decom , say a fence , you have to spray , over , under and along every single part - and twice just to make sure.

Radiation im not scarred about - i have been trained to deal with it , i know pattern spreads and 1/2 life and measures of containment.


bio wepaons and chem weapons IMO are far more dangerous as many are very resistant to being decom`d.

That makes sense, Russia will risk the inevitable Israeli nuclear counter attack. The argument makes no sense. Find me a link where this is official Russian policy. Also you do know that Russia doesn't even border Iran.

there has been enough talk on russia aiding the muslim world against western `agression` and yes i know that russia doesn`t border iran - turkmenistan does , but as a former soviet state , `mother russia` will respond to any calls for aid (when the clouds drift accross the border as an example)

That's right properly placed 4 aircraft with 16 2000lb's could easily render a reactor useless with very heavy damage. If the pile is n operation then the site will be irradiated.

AFAIK the russian built reactor isn`t ready yet - but it does have its own SAM complex to defend it agaisnt this very sort of thing.

I still have an iusse of range - this would have to be HI-LO-LO mission - they couldn`t go HI again after the raid as every SAM would be tracking them on the way out and the F-14`s would be running awacs as well.They would have to tank at the border on teh way AND on the way out , and run in mach busting the whole time ; this time its different to the last time israel bombed the reactor.

The Turkish and Israeli's train very closely together, Israeli pilots train in Turkey all the time. Also Turkey is no friend of Iran and have suspected Iran of supporting the PKK at various times.

I wasn`t aware that 2 potential enemies train together in more than `red flag` exercies - turkey is part of nato , israel isn`t. You do know that turkey is still fighting the kurds to try and stop them forming there own country , ceeding away from iraq don`t you?

explosives *snip*

i`ve seen alot of video`s of similar things - the makers claim they are also bomb proof - so a 2000lb`er wouldn`t break through!

i`ve seen what properly set explosives can do - how little you really need to do an effective job - but that requires someone to be on the ground next to the darn thing in the first place - hmmmm HALO mossad agents would possibly be a better proposal than the sky full of burning aircraft.

Originally posted by NumberCruncher


My comment to you was just a sidekick in the question i directly at the obviously talented and Educated master of strategy Mad Scientist.

Im interested in your claim of Iran having "Alot" of nuclear weopondry, you dream that up or can you back that up ?

its unfortunate that you have little or no education , as you have to resort to playground childishness in your replies.


my comment was about the delivery system , not the package itself.


mad scientist ;

Ahem, I thought you said it was the US ambassador to Turkey who said it

how did i miss this one

www.abovetopsecret.com...


CIA Director Porter Goss: Iran Has Nukes

According to this expert, Porter Goss was in Turkey this week informing them that Iran is nuclear armed

aparantly they bought 6 nuclear armed cruise missle - old systmes yes , but with 200kt warheads.

thats enough to kill israel.

[edit on 2-1-2006 by Harlequin]

Originally posted by Harlequin
aparantly they bought 6 nuclear armed cruise missle - old systmes yes , but with 200kt warheads.

thats enough to kill israel.

Off the top of my head, I believe the system you're talking about is the Soviet KH-55 missile from the Ukraine. Whilst they are nuclear capable, I fail to see where the nuclear warheads would come from. Ukraine relinquished the last of it's nuclear arsenal in 1996. I don't see where they would have got the warheads from, unless of course you're saying Russia has supplied them.
Then again what is the point of having a nuclear arsenal if you don't declare it. Nuclear weapons are far more effective as bargaining chips than actually being used.

that may be true - but NK hasn`t declared them and yet the usa is backing away from attacking the country


i think the same will happen to iran i the usa will tether the leesh of israel and keep it under control , so as not to provoke a nuclear reply.

I don't know why all that talk about the war. Simply block Iranian exports (including oil) until they stop their nuclear program and accept UN inspections. After few months their economy will be in big trouble, and they will ceratainly have no money for their WMD toys.

[edit on 2-1-2006 by longbow]

then central america do the same and the usa goes up the wall through lack of oil


iran exports most of its oil to the west.

[edit on 2/1/06 by Harlequin]

Originally posted by longbow
I don't know why all that talk about the war. Simply block Iranian exports (including oil) until they stop their nuclear program and accept UN inspections. After few months their economy will be in big trouble, and they will ceratainly have no money for their WMD toys.

[edit on 2-1-2006 by longbow]

Well blocking their oil exports is far harder than it sounds and would have repercussions around the world. For example in 2002 China imported 10 million tons of oil from Iran, which is about 15% of their total imports. The Chinese wouldn't be very happy about that. That in turn would affect all the cheap goods sold in Walmart et al, in the US.

[edit on 2-1-2006 by mad scientist]