Black liberals need tough love!

Its not easy for a single parent, but hopefully families can break the cycle and stay married. I do commend your mom for going to school, though.

My Mother now has a PhD in Anthropology. Each of my siblings is either in school, and doing well, or graduated and running a successful business. I have a very good job with very good pay. This happened because we were smart enough to find or make opportunities where there were none. The presence, or lack thereof, of a father was not a hinderance.

Agwardlds, you say it's time to stop making excuses. The problem is that from your point of view you can't see the blockages. In order for the excuses to stop, we need to be on a level playing field, which is obviously not the case. If I were to equate it to a baseball game, It would be like starting in the seventh inning with the white team having a ten run head start. Could you possibly blame black's left field for being lax. It has nothing to do with hard work either. The white team isn't playing extra hard either, who needs to with such a head start.

Society stops making excuses when there is no need for them. We haven't reached that point yet. So instead of saying "when will the black community fix things for themselves", we need to say, "when will humanity fix things for humanity." It's time for those thoughts of people living in seperate communities to go out the window. The way the world is, there is really only the global community. When something affects some of us, it affects all of us.

(notice I've stayed away thus far from berating the poor white community, which is not very different from the poor black community of which you speak)



[edit on 22-1-2006 by Rasobasi420]

(notice I've stayed away thus far from berating the poor white community, which is not very different from the poor black community of which you speak)

Bring them on! I'll berate them I have no problem with berating my own. I think the black community needs to berate their own a lot more, thats all.

Agwardlds, you say it's time to stop making excuses. The problem is that from your point of view you can't see the blockages. In order for the excuses to stop, we need to be on a level playing field, which is obviously not the case. If I were to equate it to a baseball game, It would be like starting in the seventh inning with the white team having a ten run head start. Could you possibly blame black's left field for being lax. It has nothing to do with hard work either. The white team isn't playing extra hard either, who needs to with such a head start.

Okay, and you don't think that if a black man says this long enough to his family, that it can become a reason not to try? Come on! I wanted to fly jets for as long as I can remember. However, I learned that I have an astigmatism that would prevent me from passing a flight physical. I suppose I could have used this as my excuse, given up, and not tried.
However, I had to guide my pursuits in a different direction. Sure, I still go to airshows, but not I am doing something different.
I hope that when you talk to your kids, that you do not use the baseball issue to explain things. I'm sure I could compare myself to many of the families that I see at church, but this is a trap. I hope that you and your family do not get caught in this trap. It can only serve to give a reason to give up.
This world is hard enough as it(Ican concede that is is difficult for a black man) it, but I remember what someone said once. When it is culturally unacceptable to have three kids out of wedlock by three different dads, then that is when things will change.
We are no longer getting married(even the white people), but these numbers were always higher for the black community. Now, the numbers that were already high, and grrowing at an astronomical rate.
There needs to be a day when everyone starts at the same point in the game. When is it? Is it when we give reparations to blacks? Is it Fifty years from now when we get someone like Martin Luther King again? When?
I am all for having a timeframe of when two sides can play the baseball, and neither side claims that it is unfair. "They had better players!". "He cheated!" "She didn't walk all of the bases!" Come on.
I am COMPLETELY against giving money to blacks for reparations. In fact, I would not give it to the poor whites. I say free college for all blacks for the next Twenty years at any state college. Of course, they would have the same admission requirements to get in. That means putting forth the same effort as everyone else that gets in.
O.k., I think I might run for Congress as a Democrat. I think I could make a difference in this country.

Go read Malcolm X's autobiography. It is a fantastic book. It describes just who is responsible for the black mans condition.

Not to mention the fact that FEMA held back food and water for four days so things would break down in New Orleans.

It seems people forget about all the segregation laws and civil rights abuse that was rampid in America just 50 years ago. Who do you think was responsible for that?

There may not be any more segregation laws, but I think the black man is still being held down.

It's just a coincidence that almost all african-american leaders, real leaders not puppets, have been assasinated. Marcus Garvey, Malcolm X, Martin Luther King jr., etc. etc. etc. The list goes on. Who killed them?

Ill tell you right now, Malcolm X did more to help the black man than any other leader. He struck fear into the hearts of the white power system, thats what made him so effective.

But he got killed.



[edit on 23-1-2006 by LetKnowledgeDrop]

First of all the “white” community never gave anyone “love” other than themselves. We black folk fought for every right we have. Paid in blood too. Weather from hanging ropes or murders not solved we had disproportionately paid. Give us the same rates on loans, the same opportunities on jobs with the same level of evaluations you will see a difference. There are brothers and sisters that do the job everyday. To some it is not enough. You have to recognize their problems with people who still put up barriers. And we can go down the list but you should know then it is not like others have not to try to say what the problem is.

The problem is an uneven playing field. We would clean up our communities if you let us have the power to be the leaders of our community. Not some liberal white person that is not as effective. Give us the power because we do run for these positions. We do have people in the communities that want to be good effective leaders. But in their political life they are not giving a chance. Where as we can have a Pat Buchanan like person who does not necessarily like other cultures and values in America can go into office where as a Malcolm X or ever Martin L cannot go because you most deem them dangerous. Do you understand what Jim Crow laws did to the communities and opportunities for education? Do you know what white flight from the cities did do the communities their?

In fact it might be the other way around we might need to give you guys tough love. Not be consumers of certain products. Stop the wheels of government when our interests are not met. Be brutal to your youth and kill unarmed white kids for standing around looking suspicious. Deny you opportunities in our community. Belittle your ideals of what is family. Magnify you problems with society dealing with crime. Paint with a WIDE brush on the ideals of “sir whitey”.

In the end I say this ask questions before putting something forward you have to start on a logical thread if you want answers or is this beat up black folks time.

BTW The problem more with modern society is that you cannot continue to justify the ruling class looking like a white European male. When I mean ruling class in mean power not just money. Here in America a white Christian male has been the president for over 200 years and with the changing population you would think that there would at least be one out of them that might be from another group of people. ONE...That is white nationalism believing that no one else can do it but a Christian white male in America.

It's just a coincidence that almost all african-american leaders, real leaders not puppets, have been assasinated. Marcus Garvey, Malcolm X, Martin Luther King jr., etc. etc. etc. The list goes on. Who killed them?

Look, i'm sorry that this has happened. I don't know anything about Marcus Garvey, or Malcom X. I do know something about Martin Luther King Jr. I know that MLK was a man that I have tremendous respect for, and that he encouraged non violence for everyone. I also know that he would be echoing many of the things that I have said.

It seems people forget about all the segregation laws and civil rights abuse that was rampid in America just 50 years ago. Who do you think was responsible for that?

O.k., my relatives made a horrible mistake. They are a@@h#$%#! I admit it. What does that have to do with today? We can't live back in the 1950's. Its time to say "Ok, my family had it rough...what can we do now to better our situation?" I know that white people were responsible for that. However, I also know that that was 50 years ago. Is there a cut-off when its time to quit thinking that? Do we say enough is enough at the 60 year mark? 70 years? 100 years? When?

Ill tell you right now, Malcolm X did more to help the black man than any other leader. He struck fear into the hearts of the white power system, thats what made him so effective.

I thin MLK did a great job with his message of non violence, and boycotts. He hurt the bus company where it hurts, in the pocketbook.

First of all the “white” community never gave anyone “love” other than themselves. We black folk fought for every right we have. Paid in blood too. Weather from hanging ropes or murders not solved we had disproportionately paid. Give us the same rates on loans, the same opportunities on jobs with the same level of evaluations you will see a difference. There are brothers and sisters that do the job everyday. To some it is not enough. You have to recognize their problems with people who still put up barriers. And we can go down the list but you should know then it is not like others have not to try to say what the problem is.

Look, government is handing out money to help everyone improve their situation. Sure, we are not visiting all the black people and Mexicans, but we do care. I'll be honest...I don't think anyone should get any money at all unless there are kids involved. If I were President for a day I would do the following:

1. Free college to all black people for the next 20 years.
2. Financial incentives tied to welfare payments for trade schools.
3. No affirmative action whatsoever. This is not fair. Don't patronize someone as the "token".
4. Laws on books making it illegal for unequal loans, credit cards, etc.
5. No welfare unless you have kids.

The problem is an uneven playing field. We would clean up our communities if you let us have the power to be the leaders of our community. Not some liberal white person that is not as effective. Give us the power because we do run for these positions. We do have people in the communities that want to be good effective leaders. But in their political life they are not giving a chance. Where as we can have a Pat Buchanan like person who does not necessarily like other cultures and values in America can go into office where as a Malcolm X or ever Martin L cannot go because you most deem them dangerous. Do you understand what Jim Crow laws did to the communities and opportunities for education? Do you know what white flight from the cities did do the communities their?

I'm all for this!! Let the black police beat the black people. Trust me, there are ones who deserve. But don't think for a second that there are white people that don't get their butt whipped by the cops. The difference is you will not see this taser video on the news. You will also never hear about it, because we don't have Al Sharpton working for us
I would love to see a black Pat Buchanan in office as a Mayor or Councilman. You have to admit, he is tough on crime. He is an equal opportunity person. He is up for electrocuting every cop killer or murderer that comes along, regardless of race.
When have you seen Jesse Jackson meet with the police in private, come back out and give a speech of the following: "Mr. ___________ was a bad man. He used his child as a shield. He was ordered to come out of the house several times. He did not comply. He threatened to kill his child. The SWAT team then took action which resulted in his death. As far as i'm concerned, the cops did their job. This guy was a bad man."
Do you guys even realize how much more the police would respect him? Do you realze why people get mad when this guy blames the police for everything?
As I said in the start of my post, Black liberals need toughlove. Black conservatives do not. I think the more black conservatives in this country, the more we will see blacks in more positions of power.
America is a pretty conservative country. Look at the map. We need more black conservatives in office. This is not "selling out". This is being strong on crime. This is being education oriented. This is being pro business.

In the end I say this ask questions before putting something forward you have to start on a logical thread if you want answers or is this beat up black folks time.

This is not a "beat up black folks" post. This is in fact a place where we can discuss issues that need to be dealt with. Make no mistake, black liberals are not getting anywhere in society. We need a paradigm shift in political views of the black peopl want all black people to become conservatives, and improve their lives.

Woah...wait a sec...

1. Free college to all black people for the next 20 years.

...

3. No affirmative action whatsoever. This is not fair. Don't patronize someone as the "token".

???

You forgot the part about shooting white kids for looking suspicous.

Those black conservatives are not of diversified thoughts just another tool in Control they may have black skin but trained in white thinking. I saw Armstrong sit there and say he has never in his life seen racism. Even though he was born years before desegregation. Please!!

I wish you knew about Marcus Garvey then we could talk but it seems you have ivory tower syndrome. You want to tell me how I am yet not read the history of who I am. Sorry doesn’t fly.

Malcolm X was considered in my mind conservative. But you will never see someone like that in the congress or for president. Too many whites would get scared.

Jayzus!

I know that MLK was a man that I have tremendous respect for, and that he encouraged non violence for everyone. I also know that he would be echoing many of the things that I have said.

We don't know where MLK would stand on anything because he's lying down eternally. This is pure opinion and I thought it would take the wind out of your whole post.

But before that you said:

I don't know anything about Marcus Garvey, or Malcom X

This is a problem. You are a teacher and you don't know who these men were? Jayzus! Figure it out. Rent the movie X or something, but at least know a little bit of our (american) history before you stand in front of our children and attempt to teach it.

And still I wasn't ready for this:

Black liberals need toughlove. Black conservatives do not. I think the more black conservatives in this country, the more we will see blacks in more positions of power.

This is frustrating, the whole thread, but this quote makes me itch because it is as if you believe the only way for black folk to achieve is if they think like you. You admit that your view is limited. You know very little about black history and black people, but claim to know the answers to all the questions. And now we get to the bottom of it! Yes, black people need to be conservatives...that is the only way we will ever succeed. We must drink the red kool-aid, and accept the conservative agenda. Like the snake eating his own tail, we must rule each other with batons and tasers. We must strong arm each other into submission to the laws (that of course most of us are breaking) we must use our telephone (which we paid for with our TANF checks because we are liberals and none of us went to college) and call 499-TIPS on our drug using mother's and father's and our drug dealing brother's and cousins. The only way is if we purify our minds with good ole fashion conservatism! More police because the police will keep order and more prisons because they will control the population and more leaders because they've done such a wonderful job up till now. And most definitely… more perms on grown men with exploded bellies from sucking the life out of the black church.

Then, you wonder why more black people aren't conservatives.

Jayzus! the black one not the white one...because there has to be two of everything. one for black people, one for white. Surely heaven isn't intergrated.

This is frustrating, the whole thread, but this quote makes me itch because it is as if you believe the only way for black folk to achieve is if they think like you. You admit that your view is limited. You know very little about black history and black people, but claim to know the answers to all the questions. And now we get to the bottom of it! Yes, black people need to be conservatives...that is the only way we will ever succeed. We must drink the red kool-aid, and accept the conservative agenda. Like the snake eating his own tail, we must rule each other with batons and tasers. We must strong arm each other into submission to the laws (that of course most of us are breaking) we must use our telephone (which we paid for with our TANF checks because we are liberals and none of us went to college) and call 499-TIPS on our drug using mother's and father's and our drug dealing brother's and cousins. The only way is if we purify our minds with good ole fashion conservatism! More police because the police will keep order and more prisons because they will control the population and more leaders because they've done such a wonderful job up till now. And most definitely… more perms on grown men with exploded bellies from sucking the life out of the black church.

Look, just look around the poor neighborhoods. All I see when I drive through are kids running around unsupervised! Not at home doing their homework, or with parents in view. Drive through a white neighborhood, and what do you see?
And yes, you need to clean house on your own. All the bangers need to be locked up, because they are hurting the good kids. I have seen too many of my students go to jail. Its time to get it together! Sorry, gotta go now...24 is on

This is a problem. You are a teacher and you don't know who these men were? Jayzus! Figure it out. Rent the movie X or something, but at least know a little bit of our (american) history before you stand in front of our children and attempt to teach it.

I teach primary elementary. Unfortunately, I am busy making sure that your kids know how to read, write and do math. Many of my students do not get ANY help at home, and my job is to do more at school. I'm at a Title I school, and I don't have the luxury of teaching other subjects as much as I would like.

Originally posted by agwardlds

I teach primary elementary. Unfortunately, I am busy making sure that your kids know how to read, write and do math. Many of my students do not get ANY help at home, and my job is to do more at school. I'm at a Title I school, and I don't have the luxury of teaching other subjects as much as I would like.

You don't need to have to teach it to learn about it. You should always have a thirst for knowledge, especially when you feel so strongly about an issue.

no legs to stand on.

With no information you are teaching ignorance. BTW I go to the trailer parks and see the same things you complain about.

Look on the msn front page today ok

You wouldn know a black conservative if he walked in your face and took you lunch money. LOL


[edit on 12/09-2005 by BlackThought]

Look, just look around the poor neighborhoods. All I see when I drive through are kids running around unsupervised! Not at home doing their homework, or with parents in view.

Did you ever stop to think that maybe their parents are at work? Of course not all the black/poor kids are just being ignored. This is a stereotype unworthy of a response because you are making all of these assumptions off of limited information. Your own perception isn't factual evidence. You can look out of your window and see what appears to be a homeless person walking down the street when in fact its just me having a really bad day. How the heck do you know what's going on outside from the inside of your car (with you doors locked, for sure, and your windows rolled up).

Deny ignornace.

Originally posted by LetKnowledgeDrop
Go read Malcolm X's autobiography. It is a fantastic book. It describes just who is responsible for the black mans condition.

Not to mention the fact that FEMA held back food and water for four days so things would break down in New Orleans.

It seems people forget about all the segregation laws and civil rights abuse that was rampid in America just 50 years ago. Who do you think was responsible for that?

There may not be any more segregation laws, but I think the black man is still being held down.

It's just a coincidence that almost all african-american leaders, real leaders not puppets, have been assasinated. Marcus Garvey, Malcolm X, Martin Luther King jr., etc. etc. etc. The list goes on. Who killed them?

Ill tell you right now, Malcolm X did more to help the black man than any other leader. He struck fear into the hearts of the white power system, thats what made him so effective.

But he got killed.



[edit on 23-1-2006 by LetKnowledgeDrop]

first off was the autobiography written before or after malcom xs change of heart. you know after he changed his stance on race relations. right around the time he was starting to turn his back on the muslim leaders.
and its more likely that farrakan had more to do with xs death then who your pointing the finger at (cia).

i believe martin luther was a better leader role model. he had close to the same philosophy as ghandi. he realised that things were bad but you must start the change inwards. he tried to get the black comunnity to show the white community that they were equal. you cant do this thru violence. why you ask because back then whites thought that blacks were animals and not equal so when you resort to violence and act like savage animals it helps there argument against you. this was malcoms pitfall, he did nothing but scare the white community into hating blacks even more. this is why he was not killed by the cia they knew he was helping there cause only he didnt realise this.

as far as today is concerned i see that the playing field is almost level.
the government and the white communitie can do no more for your civil rights as a human being in america with out giving you everything on a silver platter. it is up to you (the black comm.) to further the change. young black youth are getting more and more oppertunities to grow but in order to take these opertunities they must play the game. you know wear decent clothes speak somewhat proper english.....you know the opposite of "keepen it real". i know that sounds harsh but its the truth.

P Malcolm was not only one that changes MLK was changing to be more active in violence also. He realized that praying and getting beat up as not the total way. With the idea of the Vietnam and the Korean War he realized that much couldn’t change without some level of violence. As Malcolm said “When have you seen a bloodless revolution?” He marched on Washington several times even setup shantytowns to protest the lack of jobs and the treatment of African Americans. One time they moved them by bulldozers. Imagine that bull dozing the lawn in front of the capital building. He realizes what type of people he was dealing with.

We as black folks need to pick our own leaders. It is not up to others to do that for us and that is why things hardly work when that happens. (Ex Paul Brimmer and the Iraqis.)

It is on our decision when the playing field is leveled not society. It is like when the waiter decides how much water you get in a glass and when they are suppose to fill it. Not the customer we paid our dues in wartime in the sciences and time in general.

Malcolm scares you well GW, Dick C, pat Roberson scare me!! They do not have my interest in mind when they make decisions. If fact perfect example. 13 miners die in one month in WVA and everyone is up in arms. It Took 2 to 3 days for them to send someone into New Orleans!! I see a big difference in Response time.

And yes Malcolm did change up after going to Mecca but he still refused whites in his organization because he felt before we help the nation the lack folks need to help the black folks. And still today we have not been giving that chance.

He also looked a whites from other countries and saw that white was incidental in other countries but in America it meant something different. He has speeches on it look them up!!

The problem is not the blacks here let me into the meetings and then evaluate my actions. We lets see do we run the Democratic Party ...no

Just recently the minorities in the demo party tried to move the first primaries from New Hampshire and all white folks lost their minds.

We are not EVEN going to look at republicans. They offer nothing but scare tactics of Gays and abortion.

Greens nothing there nothing there. No movement towards the black race.

We need our own party that can deal with them all for our own interest. For some it is called think tanks? Lobbyist groups, the Jewish have one, the Latinos have one we should also.

B.T..... would your answer to the social plites of the black american invlove seperatism. and i dont mean that in a jabbing way. it just sound to me that you feel the only way to have equalitie in america is to have two seperate agendas. a black agenda and an american agenda.

now i realise that the white man has had a head start in america, but blacks have a whole lot more rights now then they did. and in some cases blacks have more rights then others. what i mean by the playing field is even is that there are a whole lot more oppertunities to make a change, but most are fine with bitching about how the man is keeping you down, and not doing anything about it.

as far as a black leader or movement. i see this as a possibilitie in the future but alot of things have to change within the black communitie before
this will ever happen.
first thing is why does a pro black movement have to be an anti white movement?? of course all the biggots in the government are gonna destroy any movement that openly throws stones at them. movements like farrekans are about black racial supperiority rather then racial equalitie.
2nd of all look at the coulture. for every one respectable black role model that trys to make a change you have 10 others doing just the opposite.
its not the government holding these leaders down its your own communitie.

IT IS NOT ANIT WHITE!!! it might me if you believe all the power is there. So APAC has nothing to do with america a jewish lobbying group? Are they racsit? Do they want to separate? The Many think tanks that gives this government adivce on events. To take care of my house should not offend you.

You know something...

I am just plain sick of seeing Pro-black/Anti-white Pro-women/Anti-men(I can keep going) movements. This constant pride in keeping yourselves seperate from each other is tearing social structure apart. People say that America is trying to eliminate other cultures, Bull! America IS a culture. We're a whole pile of people mixed together. Why is it that people concentrate on our differences instead of just moving forward. People are different, so what!
-I'm really tall, I hold no ill will toward short people.
-I'm white, and I live in a predominatly black (Somolian) part of my hometown.
-I am a male, a very large majority of my coworkers and classmates are female.

I have no problem living like this, what's yours?

Because something is wrong with society and I am going to fix it. if you want to live drifting then so be it is not my life. You can be pro something with out being anti something.

So I guess if I'm pro rap then I'm anti counrty pleeezzz...

[edit on 12/09-2005 by BlackThought]