Indian Air Force : News, Pics and Discussion thread

Originally posted by Daedalus3
Yeah more info on the I-2000 would be appreciated. Couldn't get much on google

As i know of it. the LFI was cancelled. The only one reporting that russia has cancelled its Mig-35 is FORCE mag which is a indian defence publication. I dont see it progressing faster than the PAK-FA (which has offical backing)

Apart from that, the artist being shown clearly are not stealthy considering the roundered sides on the LEXs. looks more like a bad impression than what it will actually look like. I think we will see a design which resembles the F-35 in cocept and confriguration since it seems to be the best confriguration for a light fighter


I see the I-2000 as a F-35 and the PAK-FA as the F-22 of the russian air force. One fighters main responsibilty is air superioty and the other force multiplyer as the mud mover. I cant see either one jsut being in a air force by it self but needing to work as a team.

The IAF has many type of planes and i think they are trying to work on getting rid of as many types and standarising the force. Im just wondering how the IAF stays a foat with all these different makes and models.

Mig-29s
Mig-21s
Mig-27
Harriers
Jaguars
Su-30MKI
Su-30K
Mig-29
Mirage

Maybe as the chinese airforce along with the pakistani airforce are the indians worry.

150 FC-1s
80 F-16s
XX number of J-10s
8 AWACS

+ other numerous other planes like the Mirage III rose upgrades and J-7Es

Not to mention chinas massive fleet of Su-27/30 and J-10 production. So is the MRCA tender being upgraded to deal with the threat of two airforces on one side?

But on a serious note i do not believe in the I-2000 nor the creditbility of the author

[edit on 4-4-2006 by chinawhite]

Originally posted by chinawhite
illegal copying?

Yeah illegal copying ... now dont tell me you dont have any knodwledge about it

Maybe its got something to do with maturity and your social standards

Yeah, perhaps your very own maturity and brain development is on display when you associate citing plain facts with 'social standards'.

A quick look at some previous pages would give anyone an idea about who really is "snickering".

I was only replying to daedalus' query on the project not being offered to china. Perhaps you have anything to say about that, or anything constructive about the topic at hand or will you continue to go on with your characteristic rants, personal attacks and name calling ?

I missed this one. What will india contribute to this again?. ......$$$

Now it is no secret that $$$'s will be contributed, but it would be naive to think it would be just $$$'s. Although the Indian aviation industry is clearly not as advanced as the Russian or French one, there have been some impressive developments lately (which you are aware of i would assume) and there is every reason tp believe that there would be significant technical contributions as well.

April 03, 2006 By Indo Asian News Service

Aviation major Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) has begun work on two major projects to roll out a multi-role transport aircraft and a multi-role helicopter for the military.

'The multi-role transport aircraft (MTA) is being designed and developed with Irkut Corporation of Russia for the Indian and Russian air forces. The aircraft is intended to replace the ageing AN-32 transport fleet of the Indian Air Force (IAF). The 15-20-tonne capacity MTA can also be converted into a 100-seat passenger aircraft for civilian use.,' the defence public sector behemoth said in a statement issued Monday.

The aerospace major has also set the ball rolling to manufacture a 10-tonne multi-role helicopter in collaboration with an overseas firm. HAL, however, did not name its partner. The rotorcraft is intended to replace the ageing British-built Sea King helicopter fleet of the Indian Navy. Company officials hinted Bell Helicopter of the US and Eurocopter were in the race to partner with HAL in the project to design and develop the heavy-duty helicopter.

During fiscal 2005-06, HAL spent Rs.4.13 billion on research and development, including preliminary work on the light combat helicopter (LCH). This is an upgraded version of its 5.5-tonne advanced light helicopter (ALH), christened Dhruv. The LCH will be inducted into the IAF.

Meanwhile, the Bangalore-based company has reported a provisional sales turnover of Rs.53.75 billion ($1.2 billion) for fiscal 2005-06, registering a growth of 18.5 percent over the last fiscal. Exports accounted for Rs.1.85 billion. For the new fiscal, HAL has firmed up export contracts to the tune of Rs.2.5 billion.

full article >

Some impressive new projects coming up Hopefully HAL will be able to keep to its time frame and deliver the goods by the stipulated date. Perhaps partnership with overseas firms will make this easier.





[edit on 4-4-2006 by Stealth Spy]

Well thanks to Austin for this,

here is a part of a Jan 2006 Flight International Article on the Russian Air Force Chief's comments on 5th generation fighter progress and there is reference to what appears to be the I-2000 (?)

Mikhailov reveals the air force is also considering backing the development of “a lighter aircraft with the same avionics and engine, but with one engine rather than two”. The lightweight variant would be cheaper to acquire, could fly from shorter airfields and carry four missiles against the T-50’s maximum of 12, he says. The proposal is linked to an Indian requirement for a new fighter in the 20-25t class.

Flight International >>

Originally posted by Stealth Spy
Yeah illegal copying ... now dont tell me you dont have any knodwledge about it

The only ones i know is from your wath vision of events. By all means start a new thread about it, I have been preparing

A quick look at some previous pages would give anyone an idea about who really is "snickering".

If you dont know what snickering is you maybe stop talking as if you know. I dont make little comments but address the fact. While you constanting have little one liners where you throw little comments in.

Sometimes like this -- (chinese copie) or (china doesn't have this) (being offered to india) etc. thats called snickering

characteristic rants, personal attacks and name calling ?

Rants? Personal attacks?.

Please stealthspy, Your main argument a few months ago was about wet dreams. Find one comment i have made that is below that level

Although the Indian aviation industry is clearly not as advanced as the Russian or French one, there have been some impressive developments lately (which you are aware of i would assume) and there is every reason tp believe that there would be significant technical contributions as well.

Like what?. I see everything that india has done has already been done in the 80s-90s.

In terms of Indian technical inputs he's talking about the avionics and onboard electronics/software. That's definitely not out of synch with the latest technologies around the world.

And in terms of copying, the J-6 and the J-7 were legally exported to other countries (Pakistan) with Russia's/USSR's consent? I don't think so.

The a/c in the IAF today are more than capable of taking care of those PAF/PLAAF orbats you described.

EDIT: It definitely won't be:

80 F 16s AND XX no of J-10s for the PAF

They'll have to reduce the F 16 number if they're going to buy J-10s. They simply can't afford it! Maybe you can give them the J-10s for free!

[edit on 5-4-2006 by Daedalus3]

Originally posted by Daedalus3
In terms of Indian technical inputs he's talking about the avionics and onboard electronics/software. That's definitely not out of synch with the latest technologies around the world.

well, I would like to see something in comparison to russian technology or french technology in the project. I think a comparison of the Rafale MKI is in order. And MFDs are nothing special. The fire-by wire system is not even that advanced. If you ask one of the avation experts here, you add another channel (i cant remember the actual name of it).

Apart from the technologies on the LCA what technologies does india have that approchs 90s tech french technology?. Remember stealth spys rafale brochure?. Which the title went long the lines of "nothing is better" or something along those lines.

Apart from the french rafale/dassault company experience in avonics/software the russians have had more than enough expertise in aircraft design. Look at the LCA, its the possibly the most simplest design for a aircraft. Does that give them experience in advance fighter design?

Apart from indias commerical IT industry/software. What advantage doe that give you in the military field?. Quadruplex FBW is the most you need. god dam it lets you fly a design like a B-2. Omni role in the rafale is amazing from what i read from SS. The rafale layout and systems is just under the F-22.

Why do you think russia would ask france to? They speicalize in avonics systems.

And in terms of copying, the J-6 and the J-7 were legally exported to other countries (Pakistan) with Russia's/USSR's consent? I don't think so.

Its debatable if they were ilegal. The soviets didn't complain, They actually gave us the models and the design tools for the planes. The fact that getting rights alway and claiming design rights is totally againest communist idelogy. It would be silly to assume that the soviets would have asked for something that stood for the bourgeoisie class.

The PRC did not need concent because the USSR had nothing like patents for its designs, The PRC was a fellow communist nation and giving the plane to it was like arming another friend in the fight againest capitalism. Unlike india, china was a communist nation and was treated like a warsaw pact nation with technology during the 50s. China still even got planes from rumania after the spilt. Giving it to india was like giving it to a different country, a different system

The Mikoyan company and the Sukhoi company were state owned enterprises and were not given life to make profit, again communist state. But were only existant to provide arms for the soviet army. Hence did not license out prodcution liceases let alone claim some rolaty. Mr Kalashnikov did not get a dime from the soviet government. So letting the PRC export planes did not effect the soviet industry because they were not out to win the export market but to serve the soviet army. Royalities are a western creation.

You need to understand communism to understand why

and remember the friendship pact? this included military and economic aid. the Mig-21 and T-54 were part of the package. And mind you, it wasn't for free.

The J-7A/B/C/D were all copies of the Mig-21. The J-7E was a evolution of the design. During the years when china was reverse engineering the MIg-21 given to it by russia it had to re-design a good deal of the parts because china did not have the machine tools then copy them so a lot of parts were redesigned. the original one the J-7I was a failure because it was a stragith copy but the J-7II or J-7B was modilfed using different parts. The J-7E is not a copy of any mig-21 variant but evoled from the J-7E. This is the type of soviet production.

I think planeman might know more history on the project than i do

The a/c in the IAF today are more than capable of taking care of those PAF/PLAAF orbats you described.

Well not in the numbers you described.

Lets say its 2010

The PAF will have at least 150 FC-1s at least 80 F-16s and J-10s (according to this article which i dont believe). All together we get about 300 4th generation fighters. Lets just assmue the PAF buys at least 70 J-10s.

Then you have the J-7s numbering about 80. Mirage IIIs with the ROSE upgrade with has BVR capability. You have a force of about 500 fighters. Then we factor in the AWACS support the pakistanis will get from sweden. Thats 8 AWACS planes. At this momment im not so aware of the current SAM assets they have so i will disclude them altogether. I would check but the information for something like this is so distorted its hard to believe one source

Well the chinese airforce has alread 200 Su-27s kits being made. The 76 Su-27s and UBKs along with 76 Su-30s and 24 Su-30MK2. altoghter 376 Flankers.

J-10 production from the serial numbers and engine pruchases seem to be about 50 now. This number will dramticaly increase once those 300 engines arrive. Buts its your comparison between the J-10 and whatever fighter the indian airforce will get. In simulated wargames the J-10 bet the Su-27 in chinese service. But thats againest two non-TVC fighters. So thats about 200 J-10s

China as you know has many other planes like the J-8 and J-7s which are still useful againest india. because the only real dangerous planes would have to be the MKIs and bisons. The MKIs will be barely half finished in 2010 and the bisons will be all finished. But what other planes does india have?. Mirage Mig-29s?. well thats all speculation until they finialize dates so that open speculation. I have already stated my doubts in this thread about indian arms procument here

Then the J-XX or J-10C. Development of these planes should be quicker than other ones because the technologies for these have already been developed. Engines, radar, FBM, avonics have already been undertesting for a long time ago.

As you can see in the image below the indian airbases half are only near pakistan.


But if the pakistani airforce has 500 planes while india has about 800 then doesn't that give pakistan the upper hand?. even if all the bisons go and the Mig-29s and mirages and Bison. you still dont have a numerical lead. Along with the PAF having the advantage of being in defence and having SAM defences give them a advantage.

China has four air bases in tibet and more in xingjiang. and the ones in chengdu. India has to put planes to protect her border, even though india is not under threat its quite stupid to leave your border un-opposed. The Pakistani airforce is geared towards making the war go longer not to win a war. This is just a stop gap until forigen powers intervene.

But in the case of a offense war the chinese and pakistani forces will overwhelm india, hence the more capable MRCA tender.

They'll have to reduce the F 16 number if they're going to buy J-10s.

Its the TOTAL number. that includes the F-16s they already have

[edit on 5-4-2006 by chinawhite]

Maybe you can do a little research on the BVR capability of the PAF a/c. Its virtually non existant. They cannot hope to engage their Air Force in a battle to attain air superiority because of the sheer lack of theatre awareness. The 8 AWACS a/c with the PAF you talk of are not showing up on any google searches exept vague references of 'possible' purchases of the ERIEYE/AEW systems from Sweden or the chinese AWACS. Again nothing concrete:

Google Search

w/o these they will not be able to conduct any Major offensive ops. The Indian AWACS on the other hand give the IAF the ability to detect PAF a/c when they're actually taxiing and taking off on runways!

Lets talk about the PAF BVR capabillities as of today and projected future acquisitions:

As of Today PAF has a non-existant BVR capability:

The purchase of the new F-16s rumors a package sale of AIM120 AMRAAM BVRs but as far as I have researched, I cannot find any concrete evidence of the same.
This was in Apr 2005:

Defence analysts here attach significance to Pakistan seeking F-16s with AMRAAM Missile capability as the missile system is considered to be medium BVR category with ability to hit a target beyond 60 km range. BVRs are considered to be most advanced missiles which Pakistan Air Force (PAF) so far does not have and is trying to acquire.

It was, however, not clear whether the sale of F-16s with capability to fire AMRAAM missiles would also include the supply of the missiles themselves. US initially proposed to sell 24 F-16s, each costing around USD 40 million and PAF wanted to buy 70 planes.

Here's a bit about close eno#er of teh IAF kind in 1999 from Strategy Page

PAF's plight was exposed during the Pakistan army's incursion into the Kargil sector of Indian Kashmir in the summer of 1999. Analyses by Pakistani experts revealed that when the rubber met the road, PAF simply refused to play any part in support of the Pakistan army, angering the latter. While PAF fighters did fly Combat Air Patrols (CAP) during the conflict, they stayed well within Pakistani air space. On occasions, IAF MiG-29s armed with the deadly R-77 BVR Air-to-Air missiles were able to lock on to PAF F-16s, forcing the latter to disengage. In the absence of a PAF threat, the IAF was able to deliver numerous devastating strikes on intruder positions and supply dumps.

Anyhow even if the PAF IS supplied with AMRAAMs in the near future, the number is still doubtful and the R-77 adder with the IAF is more than a match for the AIM 120.

That leaves us with BVR missiles supplied from China:

The best China can give/has is the SD 10/PL 12 and that has a rumored max range of 60km-70km (AIM-120A)class. IT is supposed to enter service anywhere between 2005-08. Maybe you could shed some light on this. The Adder still outperforms the SD 10 with respect to range.

Now a look at India's BVR capabilities:

The AWACS as mentioned before put a serious punch in the IAF's ability to wage aerial combat.

Besides that the IAF has BVR Missiles:
Super 530D,the R 27 RE/TE and R-77AE
The IAF is also slated to receive the indigenous Astra BVR by 2009 with a speculated range of 100km+.

Now Lets talk about Radars:

PAF:

Best I could dig up were the Grifo S7 possibly for the FC-1 with a search range of ~80km, and the KLJ3 for the J-10 with a search range of ~100-130km(more accurate value unknown?).

Also the new F-16s may have the Northrop Grumman APG-68(V)9 radar with a range of 130km?

IAF:

THe Mig 21 bisons have hte Super Kopyo X-band pulse doppler radar (~80km-100km).They can carry the R-77 adder and thus are a match for any FC-1.
The Mirage 2000s have the RDY-2 radar by thales.(~100km)
The MiG 29s have the Phazotron Zhuk-M radar.(~245km search range)
The Su 30MKIs have the the N-011 radars which have a search range of 350km and hence can act a mini relay AWACS themselves.

Basically all of the above a/c(except the Mirage 2000 which caries the Super 530D)can carry the R-77 adder and hence are to be considered in any a2a scenario.

The IAF has 94 Mig-21 Bisons(29 more to be upgraded), so thats 124 a/c.
Su 30 MKIs are currently at 60+ with an eventual figure of 200 a/c.
The Mirage 2000s are at 49 units with 12 more being added (from Qatar?) making it a total of 61 a/c.
Finally the MiG29s in the IAF are about 70 odd.

That is a sum total of 316 a/c (pardon my math) with serious BVR capability as of today.Add 140 MKIs to that, you get 456 a/c by the time the PAF gets its FC-1s and/or F-16 and/or J-10s, w/o considering the 200 MRCA a/c or ANY LCAs.
Also we haven't considered the 16 MiG 29ks to be added to the IN.

Although, if India were to get into a war with both China and Pakistan at the same time, then obviously every arm of the military including the AF will be stretched.
IMHO Russia and the US will have serious concerns if this ever happens and you can expect multiple foreign powers to be involved.

Ok.. its late and im sleepy so maybe I can add to this tomorrow.. gnite..

Ok now I'm awake and so I'll add a few points.

The projected units to be in service with the PAF is also a big question mark as their economy is not as strong and stable as India.
The recent Earthquake last year has had them diverting funds initiallly allocated for military expenditures. Hence all the above fighter purchases have been severely affected, with rumors of actually reducing the no. to be purchased.

[url=http://www.google.co.in/search?hl=en&q=Pakistan+earthquake+affects+F-16+deal&btnG=Search&meta=]Earthquake Fallout Google search[url]

Infact due to poor maintenance and lack of infrastructure the PAF is speculated to only have an actual operational strength of 50% to 60% of its total a/c count. Many a/c have infact been cannibalised to keep others operational. Infact the PAF is totally dependant on the new F16s, FC-1s etc etc.. in order to get itself up and running.

Furthr more the MRCA tender is NOT in response to the PAF moves to mordernise. It was a old inintiative to act as a stop gap between now and the induction of the much hyped 5th gen fighter. Infact its much to the contrary. The PAF has undertaken this mordernisation program because of the IAF's sudden increase in combat ability
(Su-30MKI, AWACS,Brahmos,Gorshkov,Mig 21 Bison)

Originally posted by chinawhite


The PRC did not need concent because the USSR had nothing like patents for its designs, The PRC was a fellow communist nation and giving the plane to it was like arming another friend in the fight againest capitalism. Unlike india, china was a communist nation and was treated like a warsaw pact nation with technology during the 50s. China still even got planes from rumania after the spilt. Giving it to india was like giving it to a different country, a different system.

The Mikoyan company and the Sukhoi company were state owned enterprises and were not given life to make profit, again communist state. But were only existant to provide arms for the soviet army. Hence did not license out prodcution liceases let alone claim some rolaty. Mr Kalashnikov did not get a dime from the soviet government. So letting the PRC export planes did not effect the soviet industry because they were not out to win the export market but to serve the soviet army. Royalities are a western creation.

You need to understand communism to understand why

and remember the friendship pact? this included military and economic aid. the Mig-21 and T-54 were part of the package. And mind you, it wasn't for free.

The J-7A/B/C/D were all copies of the Mig-21. The J-7E was a evolution of the design. During the years when china was reverse engineering the MIg-21 given to it by russia it had to re-design a good deal of the parts because china did not have the machine tools then copy them so a lot of parts were redesigned. the original one the J-7I was a failure because it was a stragith copy but the J-7II or J-7B was modilfed using different parts. The J-7E is not a copy of any mig-21 variant but evoled from the J-7E. This is the type of soviet production.

I think planeman might know more history on the project than i do

How can you claim that giving F-6s and F-7s to Pakistan was an act of giving stuff to a Friendly communist ally to fight against Capitalist nations?!
Pakistan was a major Non NATO ally and helped the US fight the soivets in Afghanistan!
It is/was democratic too!

And are you saying that the soviets are/were ok with the kalashnikov/Mig exports?

Originally posted by Daedalus3They cannot hope to engage their Air Force in a battle to attain air superiority because of the sheer lack of theatre awareness. The 8 AWACS a/c with the PAF you talk of are not showing up on any google searches exept vague references of 'possible' purchases of the ERIEYE/AEW systems from Sweden or the chinese AWACS.

.....Maybe you should read what i said. Second line

"Lets say its 2010 "

Like i said in my previous post. The pakistani airforce in 2010 will have 150 FC-1s, F-16 plans of 50-80 more F-16s and the modernization of its existing fleet and J-10s of say 70 planes. The proposal the pakistanis want now is to buy the used F-16s of european forces and moderize them to the Block-52 standard.

That leaves the pakistani forces with a evern number of 300 4th genation planes. But that does not include the J-7Gs which are fitted with the PL-8 and HUD system and the Mirage III ROSE upgrades.Here is a good read on the ROSE upgrades. though not true BVR capability it still offers it
www.pakdef.info...

And about the AWACS search in google. You should refine your search to something better like pakistani erieye deal or something along those lines. Because the deal was SIGNED a week after the earthquake. Like me emphasis on the word signed. While the F-16s are speculation the deal was actually signed.

How many AWACS are india getting. 2,3 ?. I know their is at least one Phalcon AWACS coming with the option to buy more and the indian erieyes. How much is that? maybe 8 systems. The Erieye and Phalcon comparison is like comparing one fancy tank to a lot more less fancy ones. The Erieye has a range of something like 400km and the Phalcon has a range of 500km under prime conditions. In the internet forums i visit this fact is not very well known. The Su-30MKI and Phalcon somehow are going to make other palnes obsolete. well this is not the case because pakistan also is getting AWACS assets.

This is old news but when india put pen to paper, china agreed to ship some FT-2000 AWACS killers to pakistan

As of Today PAF has a non-existant BVR capability:

Well thats debatable,

The ROSE-I upgrades with Grifo-M avonics etc allowed the pakistanis to use the T-darter missile or its pakistani version. But done get confused with the ROSE-II or III because they were upgraded strike versions and is not confrigured for BVR action.

The F-16s also have the Aim-7 missile. while being inferior to the Aim-120 is still a BVR missile but the problem with this missile is it still has to lock on to the target before it hits it. Unlike the Aim-120 and R-77 which has a active seeker of about 20km. But thats very small difference when your in a defensive position, I think in actual fact the Aim-7 outranges the R-77. But that is depending on models of the missiles. But the Aim-7 is more of a comtempoary to the R-27 in capability and its actual design purpose.

The Kagril senario with the Mig-29 and F-16 is a different stroy where the indains claimed to have dont it while the pakistanis deny it stating that it was not at war. But if this was a true case, the F-16 would be trying to avoid confrontation instead of the Mig-29 which was. And about the R-77 being more than a match for the Aim-120, ill leave that to other people to compare it to. I dont hold the R-77 to a very high standard, But its a decent missile

And about the astra. well thats speculation

The best China can give/has is the SD 10/PL 12 and that has a rumored max range of 60km-70km (AIM-120A)class. IT is supposed to enter service anywhere between 2005-08. The Adder still outperforms the SD 10 with respect to range.

While after some long debate the SD-10 was at first claimed to use a R-77 seeker because their noses were similar. The russians denied this, which is very strange for the russians since they always want credit for their work. And the chinese denied this. But a very long article in a hong kong/taiwanese defence magazine gave a great read of the PL-12 development history and stated the proper ranges or each missile. The article was actually in 2003 but was picked up latter on.

The PL-12 has a stated range of 70km in the chase position at something like 5km. both aircraft going at mach speeds. The R-77 has a range of 100km in a head to head speed involing big slow moving targets at a altitude of 20km (well i forgot the exact altitude but its very high up). So its unlike the russians to overstate their capabilities we need to subtract these figures and the range is comparable with the R-77 having slightly more range, But to figure out the NEZ of the missiles, because you cant just fire them at their maximum range but need to go in so your missile doesn't run out of fuel before it reachs its target.

When you get their its debatable which one is going to be more manuverable. The SD-10 shares the AIm-120 design philosopy and the R-77 is the R-77 so its more or less like comparing the AIM-120 to the R-77. But you might get into a argument with the americans about this.

Best I could dig up were the Grifo S7 possibly for the FC-1 with a search range of ~80km

Well actually the Grifo has 100km range, and like i said in other threads will being having chinese only radar which must of had a range of 100km and can track two targets
www.abovetopsecret.com...

The MiG 29s have the Phazotron Zhuk-M radar.(~245km search range)The Su 30MKIs have the the N-011 radars which have a search range of 350km and hence can act a mini relay AWACS themselves.

The Zhuk-M has a range of 120km for a 5m2 target. so its range is around 120km. The Bars only picks up a F-16 target at 160km and that can be confirmed with by stealthspy and a Mig-21 at 120-130km. The thing about russian ranges is its very mis-leading because they market their products a different way then the rest of the world. But theirs always truth in the figures but in different situations they are different.

Zhuk-M (N010M)
Maximum air-to-air range of the N010M(Zhuk M) was boosted to 140 km superceding the American APG-66 (v) 2 -130km and APG-68 (v) -140km.

Zhuk-ME (N-101M)
The Phazotron Zhuk-ME capable of tracking ten targets to a maximum range of 245km is currently being developed for Indian Navy MiG-29Ks.

N-011 “Bars"
N011M has a 350 km search range and a 200 km tracking range. The radar can track and engage 20 air targets and engage the 8 most threatening targets simultaneously. Currently being developed for Indian Navy MiG-29Ks superceding the F-14A’s AWG-9 radar- 330km.

That is the radar breakdown

Su 30 MKIs are currently at 60+ with an eventual figure of 200 a/c.

Actually i thought 140 for production and the other 50 planes were to be upgraded. minus the planes being sold to belorussia or some russian sounding country. There is a article in this thread about the deal

----

Here is it

Moscow, Feb. 3 (PTI): Belarus is going to seal an estimated $300-million deal with India for 18 second-hand Sukhoi Su-30K fighters to modernise its air force.

According to the financial daily Vedomosti, the fighters with limited capabilities were supplied to the Indian Air Force in 1997-98 at the initial stage of the $4.9-billion Sukhoi deal for the development of a multi-role Su-30 MKI, tailored for its specific requirements.

The cash-strapped former Soviet republic would modernise the Su-30K jets to the Su-30KN at its facilities with the help of Russkaya Avionika (Russian Avionics), a subsidiary of the original manufacturer, Irkut Corporation.

Full Article >>

Ill finish this post tommorrow

Originally posted by Daedalus3
The recent Earthquake last year has had them diverting funds initiallly allocated for military expenditures.

Well, this article speaks for itself
Pakistan earthquake aid pledges exceed target

Infact due to poor maintenance and lack of infrastructure the PAF is speculated to only have an actual operational strength of 50% to 60% of its total a/c count.

Well any articles about this. And when i mean articles i mean reports and no journalist BS

EDIT
---

Originally posted by Daedalus3
How can you claim that giving F-6s and F-7s to Pakistan was an act of giving stuff to a Friendly communist ally to fight against Capitalist nations?

Because i wasnt claiming that.

Ill answer this one to

[edit on 6-4-2006 by chinawhite]

Anyone want an obsolete Indian fighter?

In March the "Tejas" completed its 500th flight test. Flying at Mach 1.4 and capable of carrying weapons on seven hard points, the Tejas is the flagship in India's long struggle to develop an indigenous light fighter aircraft. But while the technology represents a major achievement for India's aviation industry, questions remain whether the effort is worth the money that is being poured into it.

It is by no means certain that even the Indian Air Force, which needs to replace its aging fleet of Russian-made MiG-21s, will buy the plane over the several other light fighters it could obtain from abroad. Nor are export prospects certain given the glut of superior US, French, Swedish and other light fighter aircraft now on the world's armaments market.

The Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) program began in 1983 out of the rising need to replace the MiG-21s, which even then were becoming obsolete but still constituted the most numerous type of aircraft in the Indian Air Force's inventory. By 1990, the design for a new plane was finalized, with the aircraft adopting a cranked delta wing and tailless configuration powered by a single turbofan engine.

Five years later the designated manufacturer, Hindustan Aeronautical (HAL), unveiled two prototypes. However, because of difficulties with its flight-control system, the aircraft's first test flight was delayed another five years, until January 2001. Since then, two more prototypes have been produced, with a naval variant currently undergoing development.

www.atimes.com...


CCS clears manufacture 20 more Jaguar aircraft

Deciding to keep its deep penetration strike aircraft Jaguar assembly lines open, the Cabinet Committee on Security(CCS) today gave the nod to manufacture of 20 more upgraded version of the planes by Hindustan Aeronautics limited.

Jaguars, which are being utilized by the Air Force for deeper interdiction as well as for maritime role, would be built at a cost of Rs 2,340 crores, Defence Minister Pranab Mukherjee told newsmen after a meeting of the Cabinet Committee on Security held for the second day in succession.

The meeting, chaired by Prime Minister Manmohan singh and attended by Home Minister Shivraj Patil, Finance Minister P Chidambaram besides Mukherjee, also gave sanction to full scale development of 20 Tejas Light Combat Aircraft at the HAL at a cost of Rs 2,439 crores.

The CCS also gave approval for manfucature of Five Inland Patrol vessels for the Coast Guard at a cost of Rs 235 crores at the Hindustan Shipyard Limited.

www.outlookindia.com...

NEW DELHI: The Indian Air Force (IAF) is set to retire the last of its secret planes next month. The IAF is now looking for a suitable resting place for the four MiG-25 planes, one of the two planes in the world that could fly at stratospheric levels to take photographs of quality.

So possessive was the IAF about these planes that the first indication of what they looked like in Indian colours came from a postal stamp, over a decade after their acquisition.

The planes are known to have flown over China, Pakistan and other countries to take stock of their military preparations but returned undetected after conducting sorties at an altitude of 25 km. However, one flight over Pakistan in 1997 led to tensions with Islamabad claiming that the MiG-25 deliberately gave out its signature to underline the absence of a plane of similar capability with it.

A former Trisonics squadron commander A. Mukherjee said: "We now have better reconnaissance platforms as well as access to satellite imagery to enhance both battlefield transparency and situational awareness." Apart from satellite imagery, the IAF now has unmanned aerial vehicles and aerostat radars.

www.hindu.com...

The Mig-25 trainer is one of the most ugly looking airplanes i have seen :


Here is a closeup, take a look at it build quality !!! Shocking!!!


Hi Res


Cool video >> www.nationalgeographic.co.in...

[edit on 8-4-2006 by Stealth Spy]

Russia walks out of plane project with Ukraine in favour of India
Moscow, Apr 07: Russia today said it was walking out of a joint programme with Ukraine to develop a military transport aircraft in favour of a similar project with India.

Russia has refused to further participate with Ukraine in the `AN-70` aircraft programme, Air Chief Gen Vladimir Mikhailov announced. "As declared by vice-premier and Defence Minister of the Russian federation, AN-70 transport aircraft in the course of its development has turned out to be of heavier class, but in this category we already have a better transport plane, Ilyushin IL-76.

"There is no sense in continuing this programme. We are already developing our medium aircraft jointly with India, that`s why we will not further continue AN-70 programme," he was quoted as saying by Itar-Tass News Agency. In June 2001, India`s Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) and Russia`s Irkut Corporation, Rosoboronexport Corporation and Ilyushin Aviation Complex signed an agreement for the joint development, production and sales of twin-turbofan tactical transport aircraft (TTA) with up to 18.5 metric tonne capability. Sources in Irkut Corp said the feasibility study is mostly completed and leading aircraft design bureau Yakovlev has also joined the programme.

The two countries are expected to sign an inter- governmental agreement in may to operationalise the joint project as the main road block of intellectual property right has been removed with the signing of a pact during Prime Minister Manmohan Singh`s Moscow visit in December last.

Prototype manufacturing and tests for the tactical transport aircraft are scheduled for this year, with maiden flight to be performed in 2007. It is planned to enter service in 2009. By 2015-2020, TTA is expected to replace aging fleet of the Antonov AN-12, AN-26, C-130 in India, Russia and other countries.

Indian Air Force is said to be interested in acquiring 45 tactical transport aircraft. Russian market will also demand nearly 100 transport aircraft within next 12 years.

For the first time, the airlifter is being co-developed by both countries on a parity basis without governmental financing, with the project cost of nearly USD 300-400 mn. The Irkut Corporation is playing a key role of major investor (40 per cent of project expenses) and coordinator from the Russian side.

www.zeenews.com...

Russians cite foul play :

MOSCOW: The nuclear deal signed during US President George W Bush's India visit in March is linked to the acquisition of 126 American F-16/F-18 fighter jets for the Indian Air Force in Washington's bid to squeeze Moscow out of the Indian arms market, an influential Russian daily reported.

The United States and India exchanged ‘letters of intent’ concerning American companies' participation in the race for selling New Delhi 126 medium/light fighters, 'Nezavisimaya Gazeta' claimed.

“The US-Indian nuclear agreement signed in the course of the visit was described as historic in the US because it essentially comes down to recognition of India's nuclear status by the United States. We know now that there was more to the historical nature of the document. It opened the door to the Indian market for American arms merchants," Nezavisimaya Gazeta says adding, the US is poised to squeeze Russia out of the Indian arms market.

Full Article >>

How about Super Hornet's v/s I-2000 ?

Well, the SH just nailed the F-22.

This gun kill picture is from the HUD recorder of a VFA-11 Super Hornet taken during a Red Air exercise. The black box on the top left is an event marker to show that the trigger was squeezed.





Even if the recent N-deal has the F/A-18 as a part of the package, then it wont be so bad after all ... except for doubts on reliability.

Within months of a new Indo-US defence framework coming into force, US companies are poised to make their first biggest direct military sales to India with Textron's Bell 407 Shen helicopter being shortlisted for an Army project to buy 197 light utility helicopters. While attention has been riveted on major mega deals like purchase of 126 Medium Combat Fighters and sale of submarines and Radars, Textron Bell 407 has completed its technical trials - winter trials in Ladakh region in 2004 and summer trials in Pokhran in 2005 - and is currently undergoing general staff evaluation.

To give filip to its Aviation wing, Army is proposing to purchase 197 helicopters in a deal worth 500 to 600 million US dollars (about Rs 26.40 billion). Of this 60 will be bought outright and the remaining 137 co-produced under licence by the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited.

The helicopters will replace the Army Aviation Wings' ageing fleet of 180 to 190 Chetaks (French Allouette II) and Cheetahs (Alloutte III'S), some of which are being upgraded to the Chetan and Cheetal configuration.

Looks like American lobbying and geopolitical N-deals sealed the fate of this tender as well. When the competing Eurocopter looked certian to be chosen on technical grounds, it now seems like the Bell 407 is certain to win..

I just love the tags for this thread!!

But seriously the Super bug's not worth it. I-2000 is a much better option in the long run.

Pakistan to buy F-16s from US

Pakistan’s cabinet on Wednesday gave clearance to the purchase of up to 77 F-16 fighter planes from the US, marking a significant expansion for the country’s air force.

The Pakistani government did not reveal the price it would pay for the deal, nor did it say when the aircraft would be delivered. But according to western diplomats in Islamabad, the F-16s could cost Pakistan U$3-3.5bn.

While announcing the cabinet’s agreement to the F-16 purchase, Sheikh Rashid Ahmed, Pakistan’s information minister, revealed that the cabinet had also given approval for the purchase of an unspecified number of Chinese fighter aircraft known as FC-10s.

Last November, General Pervez Musharraf, Pakistan’s military ruler, suspended plans for the purchase of new fighter aircraft. Pakistan was then concerned that donors eager to help deal with the aftermath of a devastating earthquake would pull out if the country planned to spend money on planes. Pakistan was seeking more than U$6bn in international aid for relief and reconstruction work. Foreign donors have now offered about $6.2bn.

Can we have a link on that source please?