CIA Holds Terror Suspects in Secret "Black Site" Prisons

The CIA has been hiding and interrogating some of its most important al Qaeda captives at a Soviet-era compound in Eastern Europe, according to U.S. and foreign officials familiar with the arrangement.

The secret facility is part of a covert prison system set up by the CIA nearly four years ago that at various times has included sites in eight countries, including Thailand, Afghanistan and several democracies in Eastern Europe, as well as a small center at the Guantanamo Bay prison in Cuba, according to current and former intelligence officials and diplomats from three continents.

The hidden global internment network is a central element in the CIA's unconventional war on terrorism. It depends on the cooperation of foreign intelligence services, and on keeping even basic information about the system secret from the public, foreign officials and nearly all members of Congress charged with overseeing the CIA's covert actions.

The existence and locations of the facilities - referred to as "black sites" in classified White House, CIA, Justice Department and congressional documents - are known to only a handful of officials in the United States and, usually, only to the president and a few top intelligence officers in each host country.

While the Defense Department has produced volumes of public reports and testimony about its detention practices and rules after the abuse scandals at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison and at Guantanamo Bay, the CIA has not even acknowledged the existence of its black sites. To do so, say officials familiar with the program, could open the US government to legal challenges, particularly in foreign courts, and increase the risk of political condemnation at home and abroad.

The Washington Post is not publishing the names of the Eastern European countries involved in the covert program, at the request of senior US officials. They argued that the disclosure might disrupt counterterrorism efforts in those countries and elsewhere and could make them targets of possible terrorist retaliation.

It is illegal for the government to hold prisoners in such isolation in secret prisons in the United States, which is why the CIA placed them overseas, according to several former and current intelligence officials and other US government officials. Legal experts and intelligence officials said that the CIA's internment practices also would be considered illegal under the laws of several host countries, where detainees have rights to have a lawyer or to mount a defense against allegations of wrongdoing.

Host countries have signed the U.N. Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, as has the United States. Yet CIA interrogators in the overseas sites are permitted to use the CIA's approved "Enhanced Interrogation Techniques," some of which are prohibited by the U.N. convention and by US military law. They include tactics such as "waterboarding," in which a prisoner is made to believe he or she is drowning.

The contours of the CIA's detention program have emerged in bits and pieces over the past two years. Parliaments in Canada, Italy, France, Sweden and the Netherlands have opened inquiries into alleged CIA operations that secretly captured their citizens or legal residents and transferred them to the agency's prisons.



The largest CIA prison in Afghanistan was code-named the Salt Pit. It was also the CIA's substation and was first housed in an old brick factory outside Kabul. In November 2002, an inexperienced CIA case officer allegedly ordered guards to strip naked an uncooperative young detainee, chain him to the concrete floor and leave him there overnight without blankets. He froze to death, according to four US government officials. The CIA officer has not been charged in the death.

Source:
Washington Post

It looks like the CIA has a Vast Network of Detention Centers all around the Globe - not just Guantanamo and Abu Gharib, but these two are the ones that the Media and the people talk about most. Could it be, that these two are just one Big Smokescreen, to divert the Attention from the Actions going on in a Number of Camps, which we do not know about?

Apparently Thailand and Several Democratic Countries in Eastern Europe are also on the long list of CIA Detention Camp Sites. What goes on in them, we can Only Imagine, and Judging by the Pictures and Allegations that we saw from Guatnanamo and Abu Gharib, we can just Specualte, that a Number of International Laws, Conventions and Basic Human Rights are being torn apart in here.

A Senior Intelligence official in the Article said:

"It's just a horrible burden."

And I think he Nailed it with that Statement. The Problem with Legality and Morality of these Detention Camps, is growing on Daily basis. And alongside with this, the Impatience and Incompetance of the current US administration to deal with this Problem is also Showing. The secrecy surrounding this program is not a real sign of Honesty. Secrets also mean Lies. Meaning, that in order to protect these "Black Sites" the goverment has to Lie about them, to keep them Secret.

And we can only Imagine what is the Real Truth...

[edit on 2/11/05 by Souljah]

[edit on 6-9-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

It looks like the CIA has a Vast Network of Detention Centers all around the Globe

This is a surprise or something? Heck, they also send people to bases in jordan, run by jordanians, so that they can torture people, to death if they want, to get information outta them.

Originally posted by Nygdan

It looks like the CIA has a Vast Network of Detention Centers all around the Globe

This is a surprise or something? Heck, they also send people to bases in jordan, run by jordanians, so that they can torture people, to death if they want, to get information outta them.

I am not surprised - and i guess You are not either.

So,
breaking a number of international laws and conventions is "a-Okey" for CIA's "Enhanced Interrogation Techniques"?

Excellent! Julia Tates cites no links, names no research, expresses a lot of "anonymous" sources, and quotes many "un-named" agents/officials/spokespersons.

Oh yes....if these are so "secret", why do we know so much about them? If we know so much about them, why are they still in operation?

Souljah once again brings forth solid incredibility

Great. We have secrect bases where we kidnap people and torture them. Starting to sound more and more like Saddam and his people every day. Give it time and war crimes charges will be brought against the leaders of this country. It is a sad time in the history of the U.S. The CIA is on the same level as the SS.

Originally posted by Souljah
breaking a number of international laws and conventions

What laws have been broken, specifically?

is "a-Okey" for CIA's "Enhanced Interrogation Techniques"?

I beleive that they have taken the course of doing whatever it takes to win the war.

I find some of these claims laughable.

The hidden global internment network is a central element in the CIA's unconventional war on terrorism. It depends on the cooperation of foreign intelligence services, and on keeping even basic information about the system secret from the public, foreign officials and nearly all members of Congress charged with overseeing the CIA's covert actions.

I guess it isn't so hidden anymore if this story is to be believed.

How can they hope to run anything like this, when Joe public can gain access to it? It states that its information is kept secret from the public.

Who exactly got this information? Did this person actually gain access to the prison? Did he have the inmates accounts of what goes on there?

Originally posted by Army
Excellent! Julia Tates cites no links, names no research, expresses a lot of "anonymous" sources, and quotes many "un-named" agents/officials/spokespersons.

Oh yes....if these are so "secret", why do we know so much about them? If we know so much about them, why are they still in operation?

Well mister Army - what SOURCE is Reliable to you? Which Newspaper should I post to satisfy your delicate military senes?

What DO we know about them - apart from the fact that they are "Somewhere outhere"?

Nothing.

The Washington Post is not publishing the names of the Eastern European countries involved in the covert program, at the request of senior U.S. officials. They argued that the disclosure might disrupt counterterrorism efforts in those countries and elsewhere and could make them targets of possible terrorist retaliation.

Originally posted by Nygdan
What laws have been broken, specifically?

Must we go through this everytime?

Are you saying that NO International Laws, Rights and Conventions were Broken in these Camps?

Are You Serious?

I beleive that they have taken the course of doing whatever it takes to win the war.

So - it is FAIR to use WHATEVER MEANS it TAKES to Win the War?

Originally posted by Bikereddie
I guess it isn't so hidden anymore if this story is to be believed.

How can they hope to run anything like this, when Joe public can gain access to it? It states that its information is kept secret from the public.

Who exactly got this information? Did this person actually gain access to the prison? Did he have the inmates accounts of what goes on there?

What Exactly is known now, that we have read this story, apart from the fact that "Somewhere outhere there are some "Black Sites" that we do not know about them nor what is going on in them?

Why do they have to be Secret?

Why doesn't "Joe Public" have the Right to know about them?

Could it be - that they are HIDING something there?

The Purpose of Hidden Camps is to Hide them from Public, because you have a Damn Good Reason to.

And could it be, that the people that gave out this Information did not want to be Names, because they had a Good Reason for that also?

Hmmmmmmmmmmm...



[edit on 2/11/05 by Souljah]

Originally posted by Souljah
Must we go through this everytime?

Well, considering that your threads are repetitions of one another, yeah.

Which international law, specifically, has been broken??? Or is alleged to be broken or whatever.

So - it is FAIR to use WHATEVER MEANS it TAKES to Win the War?

Fair? Winning by any means necessary will almost certainly include not playing fair.

[edit on 2-11-2005 by Nygdan]

Originally posted by Nygdan
Well, considering that your threads are repetitions of one another, yeah.

Meaning what exactly?

Sources for my Threads are Daily news - do you find them repetetive also?

Which international law, specifically, has been broken??? Or is alleged to be broken or whatever.

Lets just check Guantanamo Bay Detention Camp:

Guantánamo and beyond: The continuing pursuit of unchecked executive power

Who are the Guantánamo detainees? Ethiopian national/UK resident: Benyam Mohammed al Habashi

"The Americans are getting ready to carry out the torture. They’re going to electrocute you, beat you and rape you."
An interrogator to Benyam Mohammed al-Habashi in Morocco

How many Laws did you see Break there?

None?

Fair? Winning by any means necessary will almost certainly include not playing fair.

So, you are saying that United States are "Winning by any means necessary"?

And what makes them then any Better then the "Terrorist Animals" they are fighting against?

Where is the line separating the two?

I see this as good news. It’s about time my government grew a spine and used its resources to fight these terrorists using methods the terrorists understand: Violence and torture.

I hope they keep using methods like this; you cannot fight an enemy that follows no rules with rules. Actually, I hope they start using more severe methods. Whatever it takes to keep these savages from harming my family and friends.

It’s like this:
I have never met or spoke to an Islamic Extremist who has ever been tortured or harmed by my government, But I have met many, many Americans who have been hurt or harmed by Islamic extremists. My opinions are based on my experience, not what somebody tells me it should be.

If the terrorists are allowed to hate Americans based on their experiences, then I am allowed to hate the terrorists based on mine.

And as long as this ratio doesn’t change, my government has my 100% support to do whatever it thinks is needed to stop Islamic Extremists from harming more Americans, including detaining possible suspect and doing whatever is necessary to get what they need from them.


I hope they torture every last one of them. And I mean that.


[edit on 2-11-2005 by skippytjc]

Originally posted by Souljah
Lets just check Guantanamo Bay Detention Camp:

Guantánamo and beyond: The continuing pursuit of unchecked executive power

Who are the Guantánamo detainees? Ethiopian national/UK resident: Benyam Mohammed al Habashi

"The Americans are getting ready to carry out the torture. They’re going to electrocute you, beat you and rape you."
An interrogator to Benyam Mohammed al-Habashi in Morocco

How many Laws did you see Break there?

None?

I believe he was asking about the CIA prisons. Gitmo is a military camp. I see no where in the article any credible evidence that laws are being broken. Just a lot of speculation.


(Oh and do you really think the US is the only country with these prisons?)

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
I believe he was asking about the CIA prisons. Gitmo is a military camp. I see no where in the article any credible evidence that laws are being broken. Just a lot of speculation.

You are aware of the fact, that CIA Interrogation Officers come to Military Camps to "Extract Information"?

I wonder, what kind of "Credible Evidence" has to be presented to you, and people like you, so that you can see this from another point of view...

For Example - how would you feel, if these Acts of "Interrogation Practice" were commited upon your Countrymen?

The following are some of the detention or interrogation practices that are alleged to have been authorized or used by the USA during the "war on terror". Some appear to have been tailored to specific cultural or religious sensitivities of the detainees, thereby introducing a discriminatory element to the abuse. Techniques are often used in combination. Neither gender nor age has offered protection. Children, the elderly, women and men are reported to have been among the subjects of torture or ill-treatment:

# Abduction
# Barbed wire, forced to walk barefoot on
# Blindfolding
# "Burking" – hand over detainee’s mouth/nose to prevent breathing
# Cell extraction, brutal/punitive use of
# Chemical/pepper spray, misuse of
# Cigarette burns
# Claustrophia-inducing techniques, e.g. tied headfirst in sleeping bag, shut in lockers
# Death threats
# Dietary manipulation
# Dogs used to threaten and intimidate
# Dousing in cold water
# Electric shocks, threats of electric shocks
# Exposure to weather and temperature extremes, especially via air-conditioning
# Flags, wrapped in Israeli or US flags during or prior to interrogation
# Food and water deprivation
# Forced shaving, ie of head, body or facial hair
# Forcible injections, including with unidentified substances
# Ground, forced to lie on bare ground while agents stand on back or back of legs
# Hooding
# Hostage-taking, i.e. individuals detained to force surrender of relatives
# Humiliation, eg forced crawling, forced to make animal noises, being urinated upon.
# Immersion in water to induce perception of drowning
# Incommunicado detention
# Induced perception of suffocation or asyphxiation
# Light deprivation
# Loud music, noise, yelling
# Mock execution
# Photography and videoing as humiliation
# Physical assault, eg punching, kicking, beatings with hands, hose, batons, guns, etc
# Physical exercise to the point of exhaustion, e.g. "ups and downs", carrying rocks
# Piling, i.e. detainee is sat on or jumped on by one or more people ("dog/pig pile")
# Prolonged interrogations, eg 20 hours
# Racial and religious taunts, humiliation
# Relatives, denial of access to, excessive censorship of communications with
# Religious intolerance, eg disrespect for Koran, religious rituals
# Secret detention
# Secret transfer
# Sensory deprivation
# Sexual humiliation
# Sexual assault
# Shackles and handcuffs, excessive and cruel use of. Includes "short shackling"
# Sleep adjustment
# Sleep deprivation
# Solitary confinement for prolonged periods, eg months or more than a year
# Stress positions, eg prolonged forced kneeling and standing
# Stripping, nudity, excessive or humiliating use of
# Strip searches, excessive or humiliating use of
# Strobe lighting
# Suspension, with use of handcuffs/shackles
# Threat of rape
# Threats of reprisals against relatives
# Threat of transfer to third country to inspire fear of torture or death
# Threat of transfer to Guantánamo
# Threats of torture or ill-treatment
# Twenty-four hour bright lighting
# Withdrawal of "comfort items", including religious items
# Withholding of information, e.g. not telling detainee where he is
# Withholding of medication
# Withholding of toilet facilities, leading to defecation and urination in clothing

(Oh and do you really think the US is the only country with these prisons?)

No I really don't think so - I think China has some much worse Human Rights Violations cases in their Prison camps.

But,
I do not see China Invading Foreign countries (yet ).

Torture is nothing new - basicly every War involved Torture as an interrogation technique.

Just spare me the "We are The CIVILIZED WEST" Talk then.

It does not Really show that when talking about Prisoners of War, Human Rights or International Law.

On that level - US is the same as their new Nemesis, international terrorism - or worse...

Originally posted by Souljah
How many Laws did you see Break there?

Please cite the specific laws that you are saying are being broken.

And what makes them then any Better then the "Terrorist Animals" they are fighting against?

What would that matter?


[edit on 2-11-2005 by Nygdan]

60 minutes talked back in march about the cia flying prisoners to other countries in order to interrogate them. ABC followed up the story the next night. i'm not sure why this is big new as of today. www.washtimes.com...

i'm sure there are several more links to the story. they showed where all the flights would go because the airplanes had to file a flightplan.

Originally posted by Nygdan
Please cite the specific laws that you are saying are being broken.

Are You Serious Man?

And what makes them then any Better then the "Terrorist Animals" they are fighting against?

What would that matter?

Because then they are the Same "Terrorist Animals" - and not the "Civilzed West" that is so proudly said each and every time.

Check out skippy's response to this:

I hope they torture every last one of them. And I mean that.

I bet thats what Saddam told the Officer in Charge at the Abu-Gharib prison in the days of his rule in Iraq.

Considering the front page of many US papers this morning, including my Chicago Tribune, it appears that Souljah is way above the curve on this one.
When you realize just how far from the principles America was founded on this is, it really makes you realize how corrupt the Bush Administration is.
When was the last time we had an American president ask his Attorney General and Counsel to write opinions that would give him legal standing to torture prisoners.
And let's not forget that, just as "Scooter" Libby and Tom DeLay haven't been convicted of anything yet, neither have the people who are being held in these secret prisons.
And for those of you who are saying "If they're so secret how come we know about them", it's my guess that there are still patriots working for the CIA and the military that believe in what America stands for, and they're willing to blow the whistle on this miserable excuse for a president.

And "skippytjc", if you hate American ideals so much that you want to see us turn into some caricature of the Soviet Union, torturing prisoners in secret prisons, you still have time to catch a plane to North Korea, where you can live in a place a little more to your liking.

Any information gathered under torture can't be trusted because a prisoner will tell you anything just to stop the pain. Apparently, you're desire for torture does not arise out of a desire for information, but simply from an atavistic need. Did you lose any friends or family members in 9/11 or Iraq? No? So why the need for revenge?

Bikereddie, if you still find Souljah's claims "laughable" you might want to check out news reports hitting the American media right about now, though it might spoil your good time.

Yes, I love the bashing of the United States. Im sure there are no other countries in the world today with secret prisons. The only reason the US is singled out is because we're the only ones that got caught. If you think that it's only the United States you are just blinded.