Aliens and Christianity

Im just wandering, but, how can a christian believe in ETs if they believe in only one god, so if ETs are real, how is it that they came to be? another god? or could it possibly be true that ETs are actually demons? doesnt satan rule the sky?



[edit on 7-9-2005 by DevilSent91]

[edit on 7-9-2005 by DevilSent91]

I'm not very religious but if god exists it's a universal god and not a planetary god, so if we are created in gods image then every being in the universe is created somewhat in gods image.

It's just we don't really know what god looks like. Conisdering all the different possibilities for different forms of life in the entire universe it would be safe to assume that god looks something like a picasso painting.

Spiderj

Seems to me some things go hand in hand. Some things are much closer than we think. Now for the 'ETs'.

Dallas

Yes Devilsent, when The Christ returns with his army of angels the world will fight him, being by then convinced that they are fighting an "alien invasion" having already accepted the false prophet, antichrist and their "miracles". Satan dearly wants the world to believe in ET's and all but the 'very elect' will.

There was a conference on the "Unexplained" in the USA a few short months ago.

One of the speakers was a very high placed Monsignor in the Vatican.

He stated that the Roman Catholic opinion was that there were probably other civilizations "out there" and that the Church had no problem in accepting that.

I will try to remember the name of the conference and put some links up for you.

its still vague, if there are other worlds, why is satan on this one? why is hell created here?

If you are trying to make sense of this by assuming that what the Bible describes is actual, objective truth all I can say is: good luck!

But however you consider it from a 'stories meant to guide humans into certain kinds of behavior' you will have a lot more luck.

If 'God' were all-knowing as claimed then why would 'He' set things up so that when Visitors from any other Planet show up many of 'His' faithful would be terrified beyond belief. Granted 1,900 years ago or so humans were so self-centered and generally ignorant that the very idea of life from another Planet was not even a thought, but an all-knowing entity would certainly have known.

If you accept that 'God' created all life then it only follows this must include all Alien Life as well. I cannot begin to count the number of positive effects that would had followed if the human creators of the books of the Bible had known that little fact. If from all the way back then we had been made aware that we are not alone we would be looking outward naturally rather than killing each other over a patch of dirt.

What we have now is a large group of people, because of misunderstandings, bad translations, and human ego, are really worried that all Alien Life are in fact the Demons spoken of in the Bible. So along with dealing with the immense Change that will happen when we have our first real contact we also have to deal with this very irrational fear.

And while I know that most people's fears will be able to be overcome with time and patience, anyone who has ever debated with a Christian knows how difficult it is to change their minds about anything that they feel is already covered in the Bible.

But on the plus side I have already seen some organized Religions starting to adapt to these new ideas. So with luck they all will before first contact is made and this sort of problem will be minor.

That has got to be the most optimistic statement I have ever uttered.


A.T
(-)

lol actualy i think what you just said right now was well said xD

actualy, i dont believe God is not powerful at all, i believe in christianity but i think if there is a god, we killed him ,he left us, or he doesnt know how to help us. im not a satanist but i believe the demons have more control over this Earth if all were true, Satan is said to rule the sky and still has somewhat control.

actualy, i dont believe God is not powerful at all, i believe in christianity but i think if there is a god, we killed him ,he left us, or he doesnt know how to help us. im not a satanist but i believe the demons have more control over this Earth if all were true, Satan is said to rule the sky and still has somewhat control.

Hi DevilSent/

We cannot kill God.......God has not left US.....We have that choice because we have free will.
It's our choice to believe ......
You are right to say that 'Satan rules the sky' because he has dominian over the heavens(AIR)
that is why Satan is called ''Prince of the air''....He can transform himself to FIT IN with our world.
Lucifer was an Angel close to God...He fell because he wanted to be God.
He got so MAD that he decided that he would corrupt man.......and he is doing a good job.
One of his ways to do this,is to make man think that he(Devil) does not EXIST...and if the Devil does not exist,then how can man know what is truly happening.
When Lucifer fell(well,he was sent to a lower heaven,which is Earth)and he took with him all the angels that followed him.....Fallen Angels became DEMONS.
Since the beginning of time we are told that there was a WAR in HEAVEN..Satan was cast down along with his fallen Angels.
We know from Scripture that Angels praised God in Liturgy.....they were aware that God created them(unlike man with a SOUL)a bodiless spirit...
Satan was filled with PRIDE .......
Demons can posses people ......like the Serpant that was possesed by Satan(nature had not changed as yet!)

On the Angels...

From the book of Tobiah in the Old Testament, the Archangel Raphael reveals himself to Tobiah by saying: "I will not hide from you the mystery, when you were praying, you and Sarah, I was lifting your prayers to the Holy One … and now God sent me to heal your wounds …I am Raphael, one of the seven angels who lift the prayers of the saints and serve the Throne of the Holy One" (Tobiah 12:12-15).
In this passage there is a description of the work of angels, which is mainly to lift the prayers of the saints and help God, and they are sent by God to the humans to help them.

"And of the angels he saith, whom maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire" (Hebrew 1:7).

The word angelos is Greek and means "who is sent" or "messenger." This name is given to them by God because of the function of serving the human race to be saved: "Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation" (Hebrews 1:14).

The Angels

If an Angel can help in time of need, surely the fallen Angels can do similar things......but not because they Love(do not know the meaning of the word)mankind,but because they are Jealous of man replacing them....as was in the beginning.

As for Aliens being demons.....from what I have experienced and the confessions of others in similar circumstances (as i were then deeply into ufo's)demons are taking form of Aliens because they are preparing mankind for the end......
We look to the sky(upwards....inbuilt in us...soul)when something wrongs us or when we are happy, since the Devil knows this , he creates aliens,(makes one think there are beings from other planets)to replace God ....

IX
helen
Many look to the skies for aliens to appear and forget God.

yay!! another actual christian, also very well said!! i dont know why, but i get a really really strong feeling about the idea of angels and demons being real. and yea, i read alot about that stuff.

OK, for the sake of clarity I would like to ask you a couple of questions Helen.

1) Do you believe that Humans are the only Life in the Universe?
2) If not, do you believe we are the only Intelligent life?
3) How old do you think both the Universe and the Earth are?

Smart readers will recognize the reason I am asking these questions is to see how much basic Science you accept. It is, for example, my understanding that the current Chrisitan view of the age of the Earth is something in the area of 100,000 years or so. This despite all the established Scientific evidence that goes back millions of years.

I do not believe in your 'God', 'Demons' or even that JC existed as a physical being, but even if I did I would still be willing to accept that we are not the only intelligent life. Why does it have to be all or nothing?

While I have no proof of this I am prepared to accept that perhaps some non-human beings wish us ill. Perhaps they are the original source of some of this 'Demon' stuff. But even if true that does not invalidate the idea that other non-humans are peaceful or just plain different.

Do you realize that by making these sorts of absolute judgements about all non-human life you are eliminating any chance of non-Christians paying any attention at all? I do not think you are even slightly correct, but if there is some sort of grain of truth to what you say is it not more important to reach people rather than issue these blanket pronouncements that only the already faithful will listen to?

And to the notion that the belief in the idea of Alien life is the reason why more and more people are turning away from standard religions I can only say that is only correct for a tiny fraction of people. Yes there are some who have turned this idea into an alternative religion, but at best they make up a tiny fraction of the total.

The main reason people are turning away is that it does not work for them. People are looking for better answers, for a style of faith that actually helps them to solve their problems in this lifetime. We are growing up, slowly to be sure, painfully, but steadily. More and more of us do not need some mythical Father Figure to guide us.


A.T
(-)


[edit on 9/8/05 by Alexander Tau]

I always found it FUNNY how people need proof of UFO but believe what eva the bible says ? How can someone whos need proof to believe then go and just accept religion with no proof what so eva ?. Do guy even read this dripple ? The book of Genesis totally about sex,violence, insults to women, contradictions ..ETC.

Jacob sees God face to face and lives 32:30

Judah impregnates his daughter in law 38:16, 18

God, the mass murderer 7:4, 19:24

But when where the stars made ?

Gen.1:16-19

He made the stars also. And God set them in the firmament of the heaven.... And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

Job 38:4-7
Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? ... When the morning stars sang together.

I truly believe that cause this all happen so long ago people just just believe if without question. Theres no proof that religions are a hoax then there are UFO's are real

cause, its way easier to believe than ETs, and some think there is evidence
plus its not like aliens have done anythig for you, atleast believing in God gives ppl hope, even if false hope, and btw, the bible was created by a man

Alexander Tau///

1) Do you believe that Humans are the only Life in the Universe?
2) If not, do you believe we are the only Intelligent life?
3) How old do you think both the Universe and the Earth are?

I/ Yes
2/Yes, as far as intelligence goes, Demons are pretty good at it!
Fooling mankind for sooo long!
3/"one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day" (II Peter 3:8; Ps. 89:5).


Now,


Quote///
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth (Gen 1:1).

After the creation of Heaven, the invisible, angelic world, God created out of nothing, by His word alone, earth, that is, the material from which He gradually made our visible, physical world, the visible sky, earth and all that is in them.

God could have created the world in a single instant, but since He wished from the very beginning that this world should live and develop step by step, He created it not in an instant, but over several periods of time, which in the Bible are called "days."

These "days" of creation were not the usual days that we know, consisting of twenty-four hours. Our days depend on the sun. However, during the first three "days" of creation there was no sun yet in existence, which means that the days described in Genesis could not have been the kind of days as we understand them. The Bible was written by the Prophet Moses in the ancient Hebrew language, and in this language both "day" and a period of time are called by the same word Yom. It is impossible for us to know exactly what kind of days these were, even more so since we know that "one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day" (II Peter 3:8; Ps. 89:5).

The Holy Fathers of the Church consider the seventh "day" of the world to be continuing even at the present time, and that after the resurrection of the dead there will begin the eighth eternal day, that is, eternal future life. Thus St. John of Damascus (VIII century) writes concerning this: "The seven ages of this world are reckoned from the creation of Heaven and earth to the general conclusion and resurrection of men. For even though there is a personal ending, there is also a general, complete ending when there will be the general resurrection of men. The eighth age is the age to come."

Law of God ~
Would also like to add.....
Genesis and Early man....

A Clear Definition
Many of the arguments between "evolutionists" and "anti- evolutionists" are useless, for one basic reason: they are usually not arguing about the same thing. Each one of them means one thing when he hears the word "evolution," and the other means something else; and they argue in vain because they are not even talking about the same thing. Therefore, in order to be precise, I will tell you exactly what I mean by the word "evolution," which is the meaning it has in all textbooks of evolution. But first I must show you that in your letter you have used the word "evolution" to mean two entirely different things, but you write as if they were the same thing. You have failed here to distinguish between scientific fact and philosophy.

on evolution.


Actually, Scientific evidence agrees with the Bible.....more so now then ever before!

Alaxander Tau,

I do not believe in your 'God', 'Demons' or even that JC existed as a physical being, but even if I did I would still be willing to accept that we are not the only intelligent life. Why does it have to be all or nothing?

Now for me to ask you...
Why are you, willing to accept that we are not the only intelligent life?
What exactly is it that makes you, believe that ALIENS (beings) from another planet want to visit earth?

It cannot be that they are so smart that they keep crashing in their ''space ships''....I mean,how intelligent can that be!
Or that they seem to always be there in actual form, only to scare and cause fear in people.
Or one other thing that they cannot get right is to use speech?
ALIENS have been known to communicate using telepathy,communicating to man in a way that is classified as a type of possession or hypnotizing their victims.
This in itself is nothing out of the ordinary for Early Christians.....Many monks and elders living in the desert had similar scenarios.....actual 'physical contact' with these type of BEINGS which in todays society are called ALIENS.....only these BEINGS are actual DEMONS taking FORM to fit in our society....
WHY?
Because they want to see the destruction of man.....as it was , as it always has been,and it still is.
Man was replaced by the fallen angels......


Alexander Tau/

Do you realize that by making these sorts of absolute judgements about all non-human life you are eliminating any chance of non-Christians paying any attention at all? I do not think you are even slightly correct, but if there is some sort of grain of truth to what you say is it not more important to reach people rather than issue these blanket pronouncements that only the already faithful will listen to?

Actually I dont agree with you!
You are telling me that in order for someone to have faith in God I ''have to lie'' and let them believe in their OWN mind of what is acceptable to them?

Or that I must live in this world and accept the teachings of man and his imaginations , to fit in with the majority?

Or that in order for me to be heard and be payed attention to is to 'cover' of what I really want to say?

Alaxander, I for many years worshipped ALIENS and waited for them(seen many unusual beings and ufo's) but in doing so, I simply did not understand the importance of what man really was .......I was happy to stand still and whatever was to happen, let it happen(basically life in general)....I did believe in God(always have)but when my whole interest was in UFO'S , I lost track of many things around me, I basically did not know anything about the Bible.....I just believed...never questioned it......it's not simply to have belief in God(even the Devil believes ...and Judas Iscariot was a disciple of Christ and believed in Him....or the Priests that did not recognize Him because of self arrogance!)
But when it came to UFO'S I was the first to defend them as beings from outer space(thanks to the science fiction of tv/and magical shows.)I was able to defend them as intelligent life from outer space......and all this with no proof other then FEAR and a strong sense of emotions ....which thinking about it now, is kind of stupid .

quote///
But, as Hieromonk Seraphim (Rose) wrote in his study of UFOs
(in 'Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future'): "Science fiction has
given the images,'evolution' has produced the philosophy, and the
technology of the 'space age' has supplied the plausibility for such
encounters".
Rather than a boundless thirst for God, we have instead a "great
thirst for contact with superior minds that will provide guidance for our
poor, harassed, hectic, planet" (Jaques Vallee, quoted in ORF, p.138).

Actually making ALIENS a type of religion is not fiction at all......many that have this belief have no real concern for a higher being.
Many follow in occult practice(as I did ) but not all, as I speak of a few...
Esp and the paranormal also becomes an interest.....only to see many people go mad or get hurt (again,depending on the individual)

UFO's: The Shattering Assault

The main reason people are turning away is that it does not work for them. People are looking for better answers, for a style of faith that actually helps them to solve their problems in this lifetime. We are growing up, slowly to be sure, painfully, but steadily. More and more of us do not need some mythical Father Figure to guide us.

Does not work for them?
How is it suppose to work?
Life is like that.......it is what we make it and how we choose to deal with it.
Better answers in what?
Aliens?
....All I have actually seen from belief in Aliens is CONFUSION and mixed emotions,not in control of one's senses (contactees) in which DEMONS are known to react in this same manner!

Alexander, everyone has a belief in something.....

An increase of UFO'S all around the world.
Paranormal......shadow people and the like.
Voices that some people say they hear(not mentally ill)

All of the above fits in with what the early Desert fathers have said and are saying......The Devil and his Demons don't have long to go.....many have already fallen into his trap..
Unseen ,Spiritual warfare is all around us.......it is nothing NEW but very relevant in our time....
In the life of Saint Anthony of the Desert(251AD ),He saw Demons and fought with them.....

Discerner of Spirits – St. Anthony the Great of Egypt

And for those that want more to read...

. THE BASIS FOR UNDERSTANDING THE SIGNS

Sorry for the very long post///

IX
helen

[edit on 9/9/2005 by helen670]

Helen - Thats kind of a closed mind you have there.....

In the Milkyway galaxy, ours, there are over 400 billion stars alone.

And there are billions of other galaxies.

To think that earth has the only intelligent life in the Universe is extremely naive..........and with the size of the universe, if we were the only ones, wouldn't that be a tremendous waste of space?

i agree with you ferret on that we PROBLY arent the only ones, but i highly doubt they are superior to us, if we are all equal, how is it they they know how to use all this highly advanced stuff and we arent even close to getting to other galaxies!!!!???

im tired of all you non believers, stop thinking about ETs and think about how we were created if yall are so damn smart

B-T-W, the f$%&ing anti-christs is a subsitute at my school and the assistant principle>.<



Edit part:
SCREW NAZIS, and sry for the comments,

and btw, satan has a bible too helium, so stop quoting it

[edit on 9-9-2005 by DevilSent91]

[edit on 9-9-2005 by DevilSent91]

I/ Yes
2/Yes, as far as intelligence goes, Demons are pretty good at it!
Fooling mankind for sooo long!
3/"one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day"

Well I got three for three there, exactly what I expected you to say.

Humans have this innate need to think that they are the center of the Universe. Mostly this comes from the fact that we are the center of our own little Universe so we naturally project this outward to encompass everything.

Once upon a time it was 'The Sun revolves around the Earth'. Then when we have found that not to be true it was 'We are the center of the Universe' and then of course we found that to be not the case as well.

Now it is we are the only form of Intellgent life. This is just short-sighted, self-centered, human arrogance. It is easy to believe today because we have yet to have open contact with life from elsewhere, but a day will come when we do have such contact and then we can finally put this newest bit of human arrogance to rest once and for all.

Of course humans being what they are, we will probably find a new way to express these feelings, but such is life.

Why are you, willing to accept that we are not the only intelligent life?
What exactly is it that makes you, believe that ALIENS (beings) from another planet want to visit earth?

Math. We have at this time identified over 125 Billion Galaxies. In our Galaxy alone there are a couple of 100 Billion Stars. The fact that we exist says there is a chance that other Planets will also have life. If you know anything about Infinity math then you know that any fraction of Infinity is equal to Infinity. While this is theory, in practice what it means is that there are almost certainly a huge number of different forms of life in the Universe.

Evidence of other Life visiting covers the whole span of human history. No place is without their stories, no Age has been missed. Before we had words we painted pictures on walls. While you can easily discount many as stellar events and the like I have seen some that do not fit that catagory.

It cannot be that they are so smart that they keep crashing in their ''space ships''....I mean,how intelligent can that be!

Oh now Helen I know you are smarter than that. When you compare the number of sightings to the number of possible crashes their overall safety record looks pretty good. When you add in the visits that happen that are not observed their record looks even better.

Advancement never equals perfection, if they are mortal then even they can suffer from what we call 'Murphy's Law'.

Or that they seem to always be there in actual form, only to scare and cause fear in people.

We fear the unknown, there is no reason to think that is their intent.

Or one other thing that they cannot get right is to use speech?

There are plenty of cases on record where different types of Aliens have done just that. But if a race communicates in some other fashion what is the problem with that? Again, it is not commonly known to us so that generates fear but that is our fault not theirs.

This in itself is nothing out of the ordinary for Early Christians.....Many monks and elders living in the desert had similar scenarios.....actual 'physical contact' with these type of BEINGS which in todays society are called ALIENS.....only these BEINGS are actual DEMONS taking FORM to fit in our society....

I do not disagree that such events happened, it is the interpretation that I have trouble with. People from that time could not possibly be expected to recognize them for what they were. So we get these stories of 'Demons'.

What else could they have said, if you do not even know you are standing on a Planet, that revolves around a Star, in an Galaxy filled with such Systems, in a Universe filled with such Galaxies, how you could expect them to do anything other than interpret what they saw in terms of myth and superstition?

Are we still supposed to believe that solar eclipses, or bad harvests, happen because the Gods are angry?

You are telling me that in order for someone to have faith in God I ''have to lie'' and let them believe in their OWN mind of what is acceptable to them?

I never said lie. What I am doing is attempting to help actually. You see if you said 'Some beings which show up are Demons pretending to be Aliens' then I, and most others, would at least have to say 'Possible'.

But when you say 'All' you instead get a flat rejection. Simply a matter of tactics. And if what you say on the UFO subject is true in even the smallest bit, then I would say you have duty to reach as many people as possible. You will certainly never convince me of your notion of 'Demons' but I can accept 'beings that do not have our best interests at heart' or something similar which translates in to 'Bad'.

We could then sort out good encounters from bad ones, maybe. Or do some other sort of productive work together.

I for many years worshipped ALIENS

What I see in that description is someone who went from one extreme to another. I do not see truth in either case, I see a need to believe. And you are correct we all need to believe in something, but what we believe in is so important, affects so much, that what is most important is that we believe in something true.

Actually making ALIENS a type of religion is not fiction at all......many that have this belief have no real concern for a higher being.
Many follow in occult practice(as I did ) but not all, as I speak of a few...
Esp and the paranormal also becomes an interest.....only to see many people go mad or get hurt (again,depending on the individual)

People do make a religion out of Aliens, I granted that, it is simply only a tiny fraction of the total Community.

People do get themselves into trouble with occult studies, but again only a tiny fraction of the total. Most live happy, productive lives and are the very best humans I have ever met. People who not only 'talk the talk' but also 'walk the walk' everyday.

Does not work for them?
How is it suppose to work?

Religion is intended to serve a couple of specific purposes. The first is to place a person properly within 'The Big Picture'. It is supposed to say 'Here is Everything, and here is your place within it'. This helps us to cope with the fact that we will never know everything, we will never understand everything, which naturally leads to worries and fear.

I remember my first lessions in Scientific Thinking, I was told that every new fact we learn for certain leads to 10 new questions. Life is always like that, and to cope it helps to have some sort of overall framework that is constant.

The second major job of any religion is to guide people into moral, healthy, behavior. There are lots of ways to go about this, but they should all be judged by how well they work. There was a time when the stern father-figure of 'God' and the threat of 'Hell' worked pretty well. Back then people did not expect to live all that long and this helped to make this idea work.

But people are different today, we all expect to live long lives, personally I look forward to seeing what being 100 feels like. So what is needed is a more immediate and direct form of feedback on our actions. We need to see how what we do wrong today will have a direct impact on what happens to us not only tomorrow, but the rest of our lives.

Call it what you will, 'Karma', 'The Rule of Three', whatever, but this idea is far more effective at helping people to do what is right today than the form that Christianity offers.

Tolerance is also a big issue for many people. I am sure you are aware that it was not so long ago that perversions of Christianity were used to justify racial intolerance. Today that is no longer acceptable, so what has happened? Now it is people who are Gay who are the target.

What is desired by many people is a form of Belief that has universal tolerance at it's core. Something that no matter how different someone might be they are accepted without hostility. I know it says this in the Bible, but that is not what happens in practice.

So for all those reasons and more we see less and less people walking into Churches. The only reason that general surveys say that 'most' people believe in 'God' is because that is the safe answer. It takes courage to say you do not. But with time more and more people will look for Belief Systems that really suit them, and I think this is quite wonderful.


A.T
(-)

Give up a religion which has stayed alive for thousands of years!? Most religions believe in a god(s). Who said the ones out there were DEFINENTLY not made by god? So give up the only thing that keeps us moral? Be COMPLETELY open-minded and try new things? Just give up on a thousand year old question of who are we,why are we here, and what are we? Have no faith? Accept we are nothing?

Not on my existance.

Die fallin engel fielen nicht fur nichts."



[edit on 9-9-2005 by DevilSent91]

You asked:

or could it possibly be true that ETs are actually demons? doesnt satan rule the sky?

And I responded. Helen came on and supported this Theory. She claimed that the Study of Aliens was drawing people away from traditional religion.

In responding to what she said I felt I had to answer her direct questions as best as I could.

Now for me, not being a Christian, it is easy to look at the underlying assumption that went into her response. I fully realize that the way I approach such questions is bound to not sit well with those who believe in Christianity. But if that sort of thing bothers you then perhaps this sort of question belongs somewhere else.

I am not trying to convince her, or you DevilSent (love the name BTW) to change your religious beliefs. But you asked the question and I am expressing not only my opinion on the notion but also the reasons why I hold such an opinion.

Frankly I think this Thread, much like one causing the same sorts of troubles over in Paranormal is not really in line with the Forum, but since that is not my decision to make all I have to decide is if I am going to respond or not. Usually I do not, in this case I did. But when I do I answer any question put to me as completely and honestly as I can.

What I like about this Forum is the tone that is set by Gazrok, open minded but with a healthy dose of scientific fact. Most people here feel that Science does not hold all the answers, but at least we respect what they do have. There is no basis for the Theory that Aliens are Demons, accept that which can be found in a book that at the very least is highly subject to interpretations.

To me the only way we will ever get to the bottom of the whole Alien Life question is if we can pierce through the superstitions and fear of the unknown that has haunted the subject since the beginning.


A.T
(-)


[edit on 9/10/05 by Alexander Tau]

lol, you didnt offend me...or whoever, i was just tired, i hope, im going under a new name anyways lol, LOL and if you're being sarcastic i joined this site at a time when i was pissed off at god, so i wanted a devil name :p soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo whatever lol