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Psychic Exact Earth Census 5-2005
page: 4share:
Ok Ron I'm in but with some reservation and still confusion. Although I do agree that beliefs are a choice i.e as believing that there is an
antichrist my confusion still remains.
For there to be a balance with anything there has to be a verses. Ying and Yang, Good and Evil, matter and antimatter. So this divine being coming into our midst how do we know that this isn't the anti to the matter?
Wouldn't evil forces try to prevail and take what isn't rightfully theirs?
If universally the ultimate goal is to reach divinity or a higher conscience and nothing was standing in it's way to help us obtain that degree then why all of the secrecy? Why then couldn't the teachings be brought to an obvious light and let man choose the path?
My mind is becoming muddled with all of this information. So I apologize if I am asking ignorant questions.
-D
For there to be a balance with anything there has to be a verses. Ying and Yang, Good and Evil, matter and antimatter. So this divine being coming into our midst how do we know that this isn't the anti to the matter?
Wouldn't evil forces try to prevail and take what isn't rightfully theirs?
If universally the ultimate goal is to reach divinity or a higher conscience and nothing was standing in it's way to help us obtain that degree then why all of the secrecy? Why then couldn't the teachings be brought to an obvious light and let man choose the path?
My mind is becoming muddled with all of this information. So I apologize if I am asking ignorant questions.
-D
Ron, Thank you for the response.
While a great deal of this information sounds wonderful and does make a certain amout of sense.......in many instances more than the 'standard' religions......Still, I must confess that I share some of DDay's concerns.
I'm sure you already are aware of the teaching we have recieved over our entire lives......how the 'Devil' can assume many forms and smoothly beguile with wonderful words. Even though I began to question many things years ago, and have over those years developed my own sense of the Supreme Entity, I still have that 'fear' of falling prey to the 'wrong' side.
Still I am open to asking for more knowledge, and hopefully more truth.
Thanks for understanding.
While a great deal of this information sounds wonderful and does make a certain amout of sense.......in many instances more than the 'standard' religions......Still, I must confess that I share some of DDay's concerns.
I'm sure you already are aware of the teaching we have recieved over our entire lives......how the 'Devil' can assume many forms and smoothly beguile with wonderful words. Even though I began to question many things years ago, and have over those years developed my own sense of the Supreme Entity, I still have that 'fear' of falling prey to the 'wrong' side.
Still I am open to asking for more knowledge, and hopefully more truth.
Thanks for understanding.
DDay and frayed1
You both are expressing the fear of being misled and bearing the personal consequences of a blunder in choices you would not otherwise make if you knew the truth of the situation.
The old belief systems are going to be disrupted, but because they have been such a part of our culture for millennia, they will not die a peaceful death. I respect your beliefs and why you may fear.
Let me tell you about an interesting situation that happened with somebody that should have been able to discern the truth of these new revelations but could not. I have to tell some history first.
In 1942, as some of you may know, a psychologist in Chicago, birthplace of the text that foretold these possibilities of today, invited a screenplay writer to the inner circle of the production of the Urantia Book.
The screenplay writer was a Mr. Sherman, Harold Sherman. Mr. Sherman and his wife were permitted to join the inner workings and deliberations as the text was being brought down from on high. They kept an extensive diary (now being published in 6 parts, called The Sherman Diaries), which has been, in hindsight, an amazing insight into this period of the text history. In this diary, as the information continued to pour out, Sherman felt that the psychologist who had organized the process around which the book was produced, was too controlling of the situation, and asked that a more democratic method and ledaership be adopted to facilitate the book's production.
What ensued when a petition was circulted, soon became known as the "Sherman Rebellion", and it was dealt with summarily by the psyhcologist by cutting the Shermans off from the social acceptance they had received in the inner sanctum group. Being quite stubborn about their rights, the Shermans insisted on attending anyway, but eventually left about 5 years later in utter disgust with the Chicago experience.
Sherman continued to publish and write, and in the 1970's he wrote a book called, "What To Believe?", now out of print.
In this book as an insider to the production of one of the major revelations this planet has received, he reverted to a virulent criticism of the text and the psychologist in particular. But the important illustration of this story is that even a privileged participation in the production of entirely new information will fail with some people just because they are either so bought into another belief system, or because they entertain personal attitudes that get in the way of a detached evaluation of new information.
Sherman hit on the very thing, and the situation that bothers DDay and frayed1. In the face of personal conflicts about new information, how does one determine factual truth about something so new there are no traditions to fall back on to suggest it was done before?
Sherman believed in the paranormal, he had some very exciting experiences with out-of-body and projection and long-distance viewing. (see the diaries for details) But he could not, intellectually fold what was not directly experienced in the written text. He knew he had participated in something unusual, but his mind was not at ease about what to believe about it.
What Sherman and all of us experience at one time or another is doubt and then the fear that creeps in with doubt to undermine our ability to proceed to make a decision.
The subject of revelation is a huge one, but what Sherman experienced, and some of us do today, is one of the drawbacks of revelation. Revelation is not prediction; that's prophecy. Revelation is new information that appears without the ties to known evolutionary progress. Revelation of the kind you may see in the text of the Urantia Book is meant to re-establish the record about things man has forgotten in his development. It also educates the mind that more possibilities exist in the humanities and sciences than could be imagined in the current state of development of our present culture.
But it all comes back to the mind. The intellect is not capable of spiritual proof. That is where the source of doubt arises, because mind is not designed to make decisions like this. Sherman was a writer and intellect predisposed to having things run his way when he wanted to prove that a story he wrote was good, or an experience he walked, felt, or touched was obviously true to his intellect. But when it comes to concepts that have not been thought of before and where there is no direct touch with their experience, the intellect can go no further.
This is why I have gone to some trouble to write about the personality. It is not intellect, but uses the intellect to help decide truth. If the personality only uses the intellect, where there are spiritual overtones as in this case, the intellect can not assure the personality the answer to the question one way or another.
However, the personality has other options and places to ask for self determination of truth.
The mind tie to the intellect is fast and automatic. When you ask the intellect, "What's this?", it will answer with or without finality. But when we ask our spiritual selves, "What this?", we are asking, not for fact, but for truth and truth can be so large of an area to consider in the decision that it takes longer for the personality to hear it and process it.
Why is the personality the important ingredient in the determination of truth? Well, for one thing, it is the only part of us that has the power of choice. The intellect does not have that; it is the personality who determines if something is to be pursued or left alone. The mind does not reflect on anything without the power of the personality to command mind to reflect on an array of choices to be made.
In we humans, the choice to follow the truth wherever it may lead, is through the self-verification process the personality is capable of. The personality can "know" what the intellect can not find. So, what is going on, I presume with all that are entertaining questions about the antichrist and so on, is that your individual personal natures are still in the process of self-verification and doubts will remain until that is completed.
Can the personality fail to verify after reflection? Yes, it can. There may not be enough spiritual attunement available for the personality to make contact with the information of spirit to cause such a failure. Mind may interefere with the reflective process to the point that the mind attempts to make decisions, which is impossible, but the personality may believe it has no alternative, and supports the intellect's concerns.
There is a third element in verification. We know now that truth is not subject to outside determination in ourselves. Some believe that doctrine is truth and accept it without verification assuming it has been proven by earlier generations. However, that process leads to the default of learning the personal truth of any belief.
That third element is the influence that lies above the personality in the superconsciousness of its being. I am referring to each individual's personal spiritual endowment, the actual indwelling of high spirit in the circuits of the mind at the highest levels and beyond conscious articulation of its input. However, the spiritual indwelling is not hampered by the lack of conscious discernment of Him. The personality is so designed that it can receive the indwelling's input and the personality often makes decisions based on this rather than the indetermination of the intellect.
I think all of us, at one time or another, have said, "It is against my better judgment, but I will do it anyhow." This is may be the best illustration of the two systems at work. Ideally, the mind and the personality have their respective parts to play; however, there are times like these we are in, when it is very hard to balance decisions between the two systems.
I can only recommend to you all that time be allowed to permit these systems of decision find their level, where ever that is within each of you, and then follow the decision to know, or not know, the truth of the present spiritual situation. There is no harm in walking away if that is the only choice you feel you have.
What is true is subject to an inside process to verify knowing truth. One can persuade us that something is true, but if it is not verified soon, the doubts of the intellect will creep in. No one else can verify truth for us; we must FEEL it, not just think it. We are evolved beings, imperfect beings, and while we have the tools to work out what is true in some ways, the process is not perfect in every case to make every decision correctly from the perspective of the truth.
Physical facts are fairly uniform, but truth is a living and flexible factor in the philosophy of the universe. Evolving personalities are only partially wise and relatively true in their communications. They can be certain only as far as their personal experience extends. That which apparently may be wholly true in one place may be only relatively true in another segment of creation.
Hopefully, parts of what I have had to say in this post, speak to you to help you understand the process you are asked to undergo when reading about the portending spiritual changes for our planet. I personally can only point to the direction we are heading, and it is entirely up to you to decide how right I am.
Ron
You both are expressing the fear of being misled and bearing the personal consequences of a blunder in choices you would not otherwise make if you knew the truth of the situation.
The old belief systems are going to be disrupted, but because they have been such a part of our culture for millennia, they will not die a peaceful death. I respect your beliefs and why you may fear.
Let me tell you about an interesting situation that happened with somebody that should have been able to discern the truth of these new revelations but could not. I have to tell some history first.
In 1942, as some of you may know, a psychologist in Chicago, birthplace of the text that foretold these possibilities of today, invited a screenplay writer to the inner circle of the production of the Urantia Book.
The screenplay writer was a Mr. Sherman, Harold Sherman. Mr. Sherman and his wife were permitted to join the inner workings and deliberations as the text was being brought down from on high. They kept an extensive diary (now being published in 6 parts, called The Sherman Diaries), which has been, in hindsight, an amazing insight into this period of the text history. In this diary, as the information continued to pour out, Sherman felt that the psychologist who had organized the process around which the book was produced, was too controlling of the situation, and asked that a more democratic method and ledaership be adopted to facilitate the book's production.
What ensued when a petition was circulted, soon became known as the "Sherman Rebellion", and it was dealt with summarily by the psyhcologist by cutting the Shermans off from the social acceptance they had received in the inner sanctum group. Being quite stubborn about their rights, the Shermans insisted on attending anyway, but eventually left about 5 years later in utter disgust with the Chicago experience.
Sherman continued to publish and write, and in the 1970's he wrote a book called, "What To Believe?", now out of print.
In this book as an insider to the production of one of the major revelations this planet has received, he reverted to a virulent criticism of the text and the psychologist in particular. But the important illustration of this story is that even a privileged participation in the production of entirely new information will fail with some people just because they are either so bought into another belief system, or because they entertain personal attitudes that get in the way of a detached evaluation of new information.
Sherman hit on the very thing, and the situation that bothers DDay and frayed1. In the face of personal conflicts about new information, how does one determine factual truth about something so new there are no traditions to fall back on to suggest it was done before?
Sherman believed in the paranormal, he had some very exciting experiences with out-of-body and projection and long-distance viewing. (see the diaries for details) But he could not, intellectually fold what was not directly experienced in the written text. He knew he had participated in something unusual, but his mind was not at ease about what to believe about it.
What Sherman and all of us experience at one time or another is doubt and then the fear that creeps in with doubt to undermine our ability to proceed to make a decision.
The subject of revelation is a huge one, but what Sherman experienced, and some of us do today, is one of the drawbacks of revelation. Revelation is not prediction; that's prophecy. Revelation is new information that appears without the ties to known evolutionary progress. Revelation of the kind you may see in the text of the Urantia Book is meant to re-establish the record about things man has forgotten in his development. It also educates the mind that more possibilities exist in the humanities and sciences than could be imagined in the current state of development of our present culture.
But it all comes back to the mind. The intellect is not capable of spiritual proof. That is where the source of doubt arises, because mind is not designed to make decisions like this. Sherman was a writer and intellect predisposed to having things run his way when he wanted to prove that a story he wrote was good, or an experience he walked, felt, or touched was obviously true to his intellect. But when it comes to concepts that have not been thought of before and where there is no direct touch with their experience, the intellect can go no further.
This is why I have gone to some trouble to write about the personality. It is not intellect, but uses the intellect to help decide truth. If the personality only uses the intellect, where there are spiritual overtones as in this case, the intellect can not assure the personality the answer to the question one way or another.
However, the personality has other options and places to ask for self determination of truth.
The mind tie to the intellect is fast and automatic. When you ask the intellect, "What's this?", it will answer with or without finality. But when we ask our spiritual selves, "What this?", we are asking, not for fact, but for truth and truth can be so large of an area to consider in the decision that it takes longer for the personality to hear it and process it.
Why is the personality the important ingredient in the determination of truth? Well, for one thing, it is the only part of us that has the power of choice. The intellect does not have that; it is the personality who determines if something is to be pursued or left alone. The mind does not reflect on anything without the power of the personality to command mind to reflect on an array of choices to be made.
In we humans, the choice to follow the truth wherever it may lead, is through the self-verification process the personality is capable of. The personality can "know" what the intellect can not find. So, what is going on, I presume with all that are entertaining questions about the antichrist and so on, is that your individual personal natures are still in the process of self-verification and doubts will remain until that is completed.
Can the personality fail to verify after reflection? Yes, it can. There may not be enough spiritual attunement available for the personality to make contact with the information of spirit to cause such a failure. Mind may interefere with the reflective process to the point that the mind attempts to make decisions, which is impossible, but the personality may believe it has no alternative, and supports the intellect's concerns.
There is a third element in verification. We know now that truth is not subject to outside determination in ourselves. Some believe that doctrine is truth and accept it without verification assuming it has been proven by earlier generations. However, that process leads to the default of learning the personal truth of any belief.
That third element is the influence that lies above the personality in the superconsciousness of its being. I am referring to each individual's personal spiritual endowment, the actual indwelling of high spirit in the circuits of the mind at the highest levels and beyond conscious articulation of its input. However, the spiritual indwelling is not hampered by the lack of conscious discernment of Him. The personality is so designed that it can receive the indwelling's input and the personality often makes decisions based on this rather than the indetermination of the intellect.
I think all of us, at one time or another, have said, "It is against my better judgment, but I will do it anyhow." This is may be the best illustration of the two systems at work. Ideally, the mind and the personality have their respective parts to play; however, there are times like these we are in, when it is very hard to balance decisions between the two systems.
I can only recommend to you all that time be allowed to permit these systems of decision find their level, where ever that is within each of you, and then follow the decision to know, or not know, the truth of the present spiritual situation. There is no harm in walking away if that is the only choice you feel you have.
What is true is subject to an inside process to verify knowing truth. One can persuade us that something is true, but if it is not verified soon, the doubts of the intellect will creep in. No one else can verify truth for us; we must FEEL it, not just think it. We are evolved beings, imperfect beings, and while we have the tools to work out what is true in some ways, the process is not perfect in every case to make every decision correctly from the perspective of the truth.
Physical facts are fairly uniform, but truth is a living and flexible factor in the philosophy of the universe. Evolving personalities are only partially wise and relatively true in their communications. They can be certain only as far as their personal experience extends. That which apparently may be wholly true in one place may be only relatively true in another segment of creation.
Hopefully, parts of what I have had to say in this post, speak to you to help you understand the process you are asked to undergo when reading about the portending spiritual changes for our planet. I personally can only point to the direction we are heading, and it is entirely up to you to decide how right I am.
Ron
Thank you for clearing that up. From the beginning of this post I read openly, clearly and it spoke truth to me. This must be from the personality
perspective that you mention. When you brought a divine entity that was to become known to man soon my intellect came through. I have often question
even as a child religion and the basis for foundation.
My mother believes the bible without question and yet for me there was always questions. Questions that nobody seemed to have an answer for and that always seemed odd to me. If something was undeniably fact then what comes with would be answers. Your comment summed it up best that those that believe in texts assumed that someone else did the verifying else making it fact for them.
But where is the footwork in all of this?
By reaching and attuning the personality to receive the truth and the coming of truth what is our position in all of this?
Do I sit and wait to receive the blessing? Aren't I to work toward the greater good? Is someone that commits murder have the same ability to achieve the same blessing I could receive? Is that fair?
How do I become more attune? Undeniably you have written words that I certainly could never articulate and yet from first reading them I just seemed to "know". I don't really understand how I "know" but I feel it is right and would like to know more.
You have been very gracious and forthcoming in your answers.
How did you exactly come into this and receive this information. Because they way you speak seems otherworldly to me.
-D
My mother believes the bible without question and yet for me there was always questions. Questions that nobody seemed to have an answer for and that always seemed odd to me. If something was undeniably fact then what comes with would be answers. Your comment summed it up best that those that believe in texts assumed that someone else did the verifying else making it fact for them.
But where is the footwork in all of this?
By reaching and attuning the personality to receive the truth and the coming of truth what is our position in all of this?
Do I sit and wait to receive the blessing? Aren't I to work toward the greater good? Is someone that commits murder have the same ability to achieve the same blessing I could receive? Is that fair?
How do I become more attune? Undeniably you have written words that I certainly could never articulate and yet from first reading them I just seemed to "know". I don't really understand how I "know" but I feel it is right and would like to know more.
You have been very gracious and forthcoming in your answers.
How did you exactly come into this and receive this information. Because they way you speak seems otherworldly to me.
-D
Allow me to step in and throw a wrench into the gears here for a sec. before everyone gets up to warp speed with this idea. No hard feelings to the
thread starter. I couldn't help but notice that several members raised the question that this "brother of Christ" could possibly be mistaken for
the anti-Christ and I would like to look into this idea a bit further. I believe that Jesus had foreknowledge of this person's appearance and wanted
us to be aware that this person, despite what other said, was not him. Basically he gave us a test to use to distinguish between himself (Jesus) and
any false revelations. So humor me for a moment while I present(for the sake of discussion) some opposition.
To start off let's view some of the words of Jesus that can be found in various gospels. (If you don't believe in the Bible then feel free to stop reading my post. No hard feelings)
I believe that the general effect of these words is to not take the word of others that Christ has returned. It is clearly explained that we are not to get the affirmation of his return from friends, newspapers, television, radio, etc. Given this information, it is expected that we will be told by some of a "Christ" or some deity that has arrived on Earth to save us all.
How then are we to know when Christ returns if no one can tell us about it? The only obvious answer is that we will know first-hand of his return. No one will need to tell you about this breaking news. You will most likely see it for yourself. Does Christ appear everywhere at once? Will there be 6 billion individual appearances so that everyone on earth will know of his return? Think, how can everyone know of an event without being told by someone else, and you'll come to the conclusion that Christ's appearance must be in the upper atmosphere, or possibly a bit higher. Everyone can see the moon right? Well at least half of the planet can see it, but everyone would have the chance to see it in a 24 hr. period.
Interestingly enough we are most likely given the answer in verse 27 of Matthew 24.
This could mean that the appearance is bright, or sudden, but the main thought here is that the lightning is visible from horizion to horizion, and no one has to inform you of it. Also we find the interesting text in Revelation 6 that tells us about everyone hiding in caves and asking rocks to fall on them and hide them from Christ's appearance. Obviously they are able to see him very plainly when they are outdoors.
So everyone will be able to see him at the moment he arrives. Why then the fear? Why not rush out and welcome him with open arms? I do find this angle of the story puzzling. It seems to me that people would be overjoyed to see Christ return. Why all the fear and hiding? Unless everyone is trained to believe that anything we see appearing in the sky is an evil alien UFO. Now where would people get that idea? Not from Orson Wells famous drama, or from the movie Independence Day. Putting aside the sarcasm its easy to see that we are being conditioned to believe that any creature we see appear in a UFO has to be part of some evil take over of the world. Even our kids are being bombarded with this thought process. Look at the new Disney movie (Chicken Little) that is coming out this year. The sky is falling and the evil aliens have got to be stopped.
For those of you that are lost as to why I'm saying that Jesus would come back in a space ship, let me clarify. Without going into a whole long story let me challenge you to search the Bible for the term "clouds". Pay special attention to scriptures that mention Jesus or others traveling on clouds. Research this for yourself, and see what opinion you have.
Finally to wrap up this long winded post, (Long winded for me) the summary of the thought is that there will be a man that arrives on the earth. He will do many miracles, and will amaze everyone. I have no doubt that he will be the discussion of every major news network. Then when Jesus does appear the word will be out that this is an alien invasion and we must all band together and fight this new threat.
Of course I might be wrong about the whole thing, so don't take my word for it. Do some research and see what you think of the story and even take into account the rest of the information in this thread. Great discussion everyone.
To start off let's view some of the words of Jesus that can be found in various gospels. (If you don't believe in the Bible then feel free to stop reading my post. No hard feelings)
(Matthew 24)
For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ, and will deceive many.
At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it.
So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the desert,' do not go out; or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it.
I believe that the general effect of these words is to not take the word of others that Christ has returned. It is clearly explained that we are not to get the affirmation of his return from friends, newspapers, television, radio, etc. Given this information, it is expected that we will be told by some of a "Christ" or some deity that has arrived on Earth to save us all.
How then are we to know when Christ returns if no one can tell us about it? The only obvious answer is that we will know first-hand of his return. No one will need to tell you about this breaking news. You will most likely see it for yourself. Does Christ appear everywhere at once? Will there be 6 billion individual appearances so that everyone on earth will know of his return? Think, how can everyone know of an event without being told by someone else, and you'll come to the conclusion that Christ's appearance must be in the upper atmosphere, or possibly a bit higher. Everyone can see the moon right? Well at least half of the planet can see it, but everyone would have the chance to see it in a 24 hr. period.
Interestingly enough we are most likely given the answer in verse 27 of Matthew 24.
For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
This could mean that the appearance is bright, or sudden, but the main thought here is that the lightning is visible from horizion to horizion, and no one has to inform you of it. Also we find the interesting text in Revelation 6 that tells us about everyone hiding in caves and asking rocks to fall on them and hide them from Christ's appearance. Obviously they are able to see him very plainly when they are outdoors.
So everyone will be able to see him at the moment he arrives. Why then the fear? Why not rush out and welcome him with open arms? I do find this angle of the story puzzling. It seems to me that people would be overjoyed to see Christ return. Why all the fear and hiding? Unless everyone is trained to believe that anything we see appearing in the sky is an evil alien UFO. Now where would people get that idea? Not from Orson Wells famous drama, or from the movie Independence Day. Putting aside the sarcasm its easy to see that we are being conditioned to believe that any creature we see appear in a UFO has to be part of some evil take over of the world. Even our kids are being bombarded with this thought process. Look at the new Disney movie (Chicken Little) that is coming out this year. The sky is falling and the evil aliens have got to be stopped.
For those of you that are lost as to why I'm saying that Jesus would come back in a space ship, let me clarify. Without going into a whole long story let me challenge you to search the Bible for the term "clouds". Pay special attention to scriptures that mention Jesus or others traveling on clouds. Research this for yourself, and see what opinion you have.
Mark 13:26 (NIV) "At that time men will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory."
Revelation 1:7 (NIV) Look, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him.
Finally to wrap up this long winded post, (Long winded for me) the summary of the thought is that there will be a man that arrives on the earth. He will do many miracles, and will amaze everyone. I have no doubt that he will be the discussion of every major news network. Then when Jesus does appear the word will be out that this is an alien invasion and we must all band together and fight this new threat.
Of course I might be wrong about the whole thing, so don't take my word for it. Do some research and see what you think of the story and even take into account the rest of the information in this thread. Great discussion everyone.
Hi DDay,
I'll answer as best I can for you:
DDay: But where is the footwork in all of this?
A: I assume you mean, by "footwork" how do we get from old point A to new point B?
It is a process within us. For some people it can take years, and the steps are usually the to'ing and fro'ing we all get tied up in when we are attempting to solve a tough problem, especially a problem that we feel deeply about.
The fact that you or I feel deeply about it, is because in our value systems there has not been a lot of verification on all points accepted. Consider one such value you accept as a fir tree. To that fir tree you and I attach what we think is related truth to that concept, much as we do when we decorate a Christmas tree with ornaments. Those related facts of truth we think belong there get put on as ornaments.
Sometimes we learn that an ornament does not belong. We then have to go to the tree in our mind, and reason out why it is not longer appropriate to let it hang on the tree. And so on - that is the "footwork" I think you mean. And as you must surely know, there are complications involved with removing some decorations-- like -- all of a sudden the tree does not have the decorations arranged right, it lacks the balance I was used to, and so on. Changing the truth parts on a concept tree actually motivates the personality to find more justification for what has not been removed, and to find replacements that are much better than the original decorations. It is called "life", and it can be quite an exercise of futility sometimes. But the footwork you refer to, I believe, is what keeps the concept tree updated and healthy.
DDay:
By reaching and attuning the personality to receive the truth and the coming of truth what is our position in all of this? Do I sit and wait to receive the blessing? Aren't I to work toward the greater good? Is someone that commits murder have the same ability to achieve the same blessing I could receive? Is that fair?
A:
In some respects, our position covers several places at the same time.
1) In some cases, spiritual decisions from on high are out of our league and we await with eveyone else the effects we are to share in. This is true for the Magisterial progam in part.
2) We should also take whatever opportunity we are comfortable with to educate ourselves about the cause and effect of the divine actions may have on ourselves. I have taken it upon myself to share that aspect with anyone who wishes to use what I say to be educated. However, there are other, and no doubt much better tools to educate ourselves, that being the recommended text book spoken of above, as well as to read the work already done to teach us what self-decisions would be helpful to make this transition easier. It is for this reason that I provided a partial transcript from the Magisterial Son that indicates how he sees our individual preparation-- that is, what should we do?
3) Attunement is more essential than ever to get to the root of verification of what is being taught and about what is already being felt that many are having a hard time articulating what it means.
Attunement has two important aspects that help us reach it:
a) Intent:
Are we serious about wanting to be closer to doing the will of the Father? That sounds, perhaps to the ear of the scientist, as a quasi religious escape clause - something like saying "because" which resolves no serious question. Well, the intent, however you or others may wish to qualify the Supreme will of God in your own speech or intellect, is up to you, but the intention to align with an all-knowing and loving God-personality is the power-juice that turns the whole process on and the flame of desire much higher.
b) Work
Attunement, once decided that it is your will that his will be done in life, means planning how to get there.
In that planning, realize that if you sincerely wish this, the process has begun and that part of the planning is taken care of.
But the second part of the work, is finding a way to do what I call the Stillness. I can give you the process in some detail, but I would rather have you contact me personally ([email protected]) to forward the details. The reason for the request? It is detail better seen by an interested individual.
c) Success
Attunement, or its higher acquirement, removes most of what I would call the "civil war" within. By this I mean, the clash of material concerns that detract from the wholehearted enjoyment of life. Some may receive this as the mark of success of the process of the Stillness and they should be exceedingly glad. Success is NOT the peace that passes all understanding (St Paul, I believe?), but attunement to the indwelling will first lead to the end of the civil wars, and the peace beyond understanding comes much later.
DDay:
How do I become more attune? Undeniably you have written words that I certainly could never articulate and yet from first reading them I just seemed to "know". I don't really understand how I "know" but I feel it is right and would like to know more.
A:
There are concepts involved in enlightened speech that appear directly to the indwelling spirit in the mind. In return, he feeds back to the personality center, "look at this, there is truth". He leaves the decision to pursue it to you and allows the "footwork" you need to proceed. At least I think that is the process taking place in yourself as I hear you speak.
The verification of truth process is too complex to write about in detail although I have given the board what I believe to be are its basic and living characteristics. To know the process is not to verify, however. Verification is a FEELING, and a deep one, and it waters the soul.
DDay:
You have been very gracious and forthcoming in your answers.
How did you exactly come into this and receive this information. Because they way you speak seems otherworldly to me.
A:
I got a good chuckle out this observation. I am quite human and have gone through eveything I recommend. I have not recommended the failures, just the successes.
As far as the writing style, it has adopted itself and is not concsiously planned or studied. In the attempt to be fairly precise it does become dense. I regret it.
Also, I observe that when a person is exposed to the speech patterns of higher beings, I did, and many others will probably do the same thing given the chance, they are adopted, subconsciously and show up in these written communications. And I am sure there are other influences about this I have no clue to as to their existence.
I have explained in various posts that I have had the privlege of what I call the "opening". That doesn't tell very much, but allows for what has actually happened - the attunement process has reached the point where I hear communication from "on high".
Ron
I'll answer as best I can for you:
DDay: But where is the footwork in all of this?
A: I assume you mean, by "footwork" how do we get from old point A to new point B?
It is a process within us. For some people it can take years, and the steps are usually the to'ing and fro'ing we all get tied up in when we are attempting to solve a tough problem, especially a problem that we feel deeply about.
The fact that you or I feel deeply about it, is because in our value systems there has not been a lot of verification on all points accepted. Consider one such value you accept as a fir tree. To that fir tree you and I attach what we think is related truth to that concept, much as we do when we decorate a Christmas tree with ornaments. Those related facts of truth we think belong there get put on as ornaments.
Sometimes we learn that an ornament does not belong. We then have to go to the tree in our mind, and reason out why it is not longer appropriate to let it hang on the tree. And so on - that is the "footwork" I think you mean. And as you must surely know, there are complications involved with removing some decorations-- like -- all of a sudden the tree does not have the decorations arranged right, it lacks the balance I was used to, and so on. Changing the truth parts on a concept tree actually motivates the personality to find more justification for what has not been removed, and to find replacements that are much better than the original decorations. It is called "life", and it can be quite an exercise of futility sometimes. But the footwork you refer to, I believe, is what keeps the concept tree updated and healthy.
DDay:
By reaching and attuning the personality to receive the truth and the coming of truth what is our position in all of this? Do I sit and wait to receive the blessing? Aren't I to work toward the greater good? Is someone that commits murder have the same ability to achieve the same blessing I could receive? Is that fair?
A:
In some respects, our position covers several places at the same time.
1) In some cases, spiritual decisions from on high are out of our league and we await with eveyone else the effects we are to share in. This is true for the Magisterial progam in part.
2) We should also take whatever opportunity we are comfortable with to educate ourselves about the cause and effect of the divine actions may have on ourselves. I have taken it upon myself to share that aspect with anyone who wishes to use what I say to be educated. However, there are other, and no doubt much better tools to educate ourselves, that being the recommended text book spoken of above, as well as to read the work already done to teach us what self-decisions would be helpful to make this transition easier. It is for this reason that I provided a partial transcript from the Magisterial Son that indicates how he sees our individual preparation-- that is, what should we do?
3) Attunement is more essential than ever to get to the root of verification of what is being taught and about what is already being felt that many are having a hard time articulating what it means.
Attunement has two important aspects that help us reach it:
a) Intent:
Are we serious about wanting to be closer to doing the will of the Father? That sounds, perhaps to the ear of the scientist, as a quasi religious escape clause - something like saying "because" which resolves no serious question. Well, the intent, however you or others may wish to qualify the Supreme will of God in your own speech or intellect, is up to you, but the intention to align with an all-knowing and loving God-personality is the power-juice that turns the whole process on and the flame of desire much higher.
b) Work
Attunement, once decided that it is your will that his will be done in life, means planning how to get there.
In that planning, realize that if you sincerely wish this, the process has begun and that part of the planning is taken care of.
But the second part of the work, is finding a way to do what I call the Stillness. I can give you the process in some detail, but I would rather have you contact me personally ([email protected]) to forward the details. The reason for the request? It is detail better seen by an interested individual.
c) Success
Attunement, or its higher acquirement, removes most of what I would call the "civil war" within. By this I mean, the clash of material concerns that detract from the wholehearted enjoyment of life. Some may receive this as the mark of success of the process of the Stillness and they should be exceedingly glad. Success is NOT the peace that passes all understanding (St Paul, I believe?), but attunement to the indwelling will first lead to the end of the civil wars, and the peace beyond understanding comes much later.
DDay:
How do I become more attune? Undeniably you have written words that I certainly could never articulate and yet from first reading them I just seemed to "know". I don't really understand how I "know" but I feel it is right and would like to know more.
A:
There are concepts involved in enlightened speech that appear directly to the indwelling spirit in the mind. In return, he feeds back to the personality center, "look at this, there is truth". He leaves the decision to pursue it to you and allows the "footwork" you need to proceed. At least I think that is the process taking place in yourself as I hear you speak.
The verification of truth process is too complex to write about in detail although I have given the board what I believe to be are its basic and living characteristics. To know the process is not to verify, however. Verification is a FEELING, and a deep one, and it waters the soul.
DDay:
You have been very gracious and forthcoming in your answers.
How did you exactly come into this and receive this information. Because they way you speak seems otherworldly to me.
A:
I got a good chuckle out this observation. I am quite human and have gone through eveything I recommend. I have not recommended the failures, just the successes.
As far as the writing style, it has adopted itself and is not concsiously planned or studied. In the attempt to be fairly precise it does become dense. I regret it.
Also, I observe that when a person is exposed to the speech patterns of higher beings, I did, and many others will probably do the same thing given the chance, they are adopted, subconsciously and show up in these written communications. And I am sure there are other influences about this I have no clue to as to their existence.
I have explained in various posts that I have had the privlege of what I call the "opening". That doesn't tell very much, but allows for what has actually happened - the attunement process has reached the point where I hear communication from "on high".
Ron
Glad to give you a chuckle Ron. Think of it as my give back to all of the enlightenment you have provided. I realize you are human and not celestial,
it was just the way the words are written that are eloquent.
I am interested in learning more and I have taken down your email address and will respond to you at my home. I often am on the boards at work and of course would prefer to use my home email instead.
Dbates - you have also lent interesting ideas and ones that I am familiar with and have been all of my life. However, there are gaps that need to be filled for me personally. And while I do not debunk the word of God nor the bible, I need to find the root of these scriptures.
Like you - I too am concerned about making the wrong choice as we have all heard about the coming of the antichrist and the warnings that he would do miracles and bring peace before destruction.
It is because of this that I need to seek what is inside of me for the truth and what feels most comfortable. This is something I have been struggling with for some time because what has been taught over the years doesn't seem to "fit" and for those years I have been seeking to find the fit.
I am interested in learning more and I have taken down your email address and will respond to you at my home. I often am on the boards at work and of course would prefer to use my home email instead.
Dbates - you have also lent interesting ideas and ones that I am familiar with and have been all of my life. However, there are gaps that need to be filled for me personally. And while I do not debunk the word of God nor the bible, I need to find the root of these scriptures.
Like you - I too am concerned about making the wrong choice as we have all heard about the coming of the antichrist and the warnings that he would do miracles and bring peace before destruction.
It is because of this that I need to seek what is inside of me for the truth and what feels most comfortable. This is something I have been struggling with for some time because what has been taught over the years doesn't seem to "fit" and for those years I have been seeking to find the fit.
I’ve been following your threads for a little while Ron and I would have to agree with Dday. Thanks for sharing so much.
The obvious fear regarding Monjoronson is that he is the Antichrist. I think it’s important to address this. I’ve noticed for a long time that people generally have a misconception regarding the Antichrist. The word Antichrist is used too loosely I believe.
The word Antichrist you see, can apply to anyone not just THE False Prophet mentioned in Revelation.
I found this passage from Revelation particularly interesting also:
What part of this describes the Monjoronson that Ron speaks of? I picture this Monjoronson as a simple and humble figure. Ron has not eluded that this person would be performing extravagant miracles. I suppose we should ask then, will Monjoronson be performing miracles for everyone to see or would he be simply a teacher? Maybe this could help shed the antichrist image?
The obvious fear regarding Monjoronson is that he is the Antichrist. I think it’s important to address this. I’ve noticed for a long time that people generally have a misconception regarding the Antichrist. The word Antichrist is used too loosely I believe.
2 John 1:7 says:
Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.
The word Antichrist you see, can apply to anyone not just THE False Prophet mentioned in Revelation.
I found this passage from Revelation particularly interesting also:
Revelation 13:13
And he performed great and miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to earth in full view of men. 14Because of the signs he was given power to do on behalf of the first beast, he deceived the inhabitants of the earth. He ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived. 15He was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that it could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. 16He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, 17so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.
What part of this describes the Monjoronson that Ron speaks of? I picture this Monjoronson as a simple and humble figure. Ron has not eluded that this person would be performing extravagant miracles. I suppose we should ask then, will Monjoronson be performing miracles for everyone to see or would he be simply a teacher? Maybe this could help shed the antichrist image?
Hi Noise. It's nice to be back in communication with you again.
To be honest, I never thought about the miracle aspect of the mission much. So to find out what the Magisterial Son may have said about miracles, I went back to a transcription dated 9/21/03 where Monjoronson took questions through a transmitter of a student group. At the end of the excerpt, I place some vocabulary terms (*) to help the reader translate the remarks of the Magisterial Son.
Noise asks:
I suppose we should ask then, will Monjoronson be performing miracles for everyone to see or would he be simply a teacher? Maybe this could help shed the antichrist image?
Transmitter's Transcription:
Monjoronson (excerpt)
[He speaking about physical changes some of us may expect to find as the mission proceeds)
End of Excerpt
Excerpt Vocabulary:
(*) physical/morontia enhancement - the student is referring to two states we exist in while in the flesh. The reader is aware that the physical refers to the body, but the morontia (more . ron . sha) is the material our soul is made of. The soul is invisible but living and even has mind althought it is dependent on our physcial mind while we live in the flesh. The student is asking if the spiritual presence of the Son will strenghen and increase the senses in the physical and in the soul (as feed back to our physical brain).
(**) Thought Adjuster - a modern term introduced by the text book referred to in these posts which is the text that will be used to base teachings on when the educational system is working. The modern term, Thought Adjuster, is an indwelling spirit portion of the Father of All, fully capable of bring and working with the life plans of an individual in the flesh. Attunement means to come in closer alignment with the will of this perfect spirit who is with us every moment we are alive, asleep or awake. The term refers to its function (one of them any way) to help you switch thoughts to the highest concept one knows. It adjusts thinking, and in later years may speak directly to the consciousness as "that still small voice" some have mentioned in religious texts.
Does this give you maybe what you were looking for with your question?
Ron
To be honest, I never thought about the miracle aspect of the mission much. So to find out what the Magisterial Son may have said about miracles, I went back to a transcription dated 9/21/03 where Monjoronson took questions through a transmitter of a student group. At the end of the excerpt, I place some vocabulary terms (*) to help the reader translate the remarks of the Magisterial Son.
Noise asks:
I suppose we should ask then, will Monjoronson be performing miracles for everyone to see or would he be simply a teacher? Maybe this could help shed the antichrist image?
Transmitter's Transcription:
Monjoronson (excerpt)
[He speaking about physical changes some of us may expect to find as the mission proceeds)
Student: I have one rather brief question. (Certainly.) In view of this physical/morontia enhancement(*), would that also tend to correct some physical or health problems that might stand in the way of an individual’s effectiveness?
MONJORONSON: No. The mind is separate from the body and the brain is separate from the mind. You may anticipate a more harmonious cooperation between your mind and your body, as the mind does affect the workings of the body immensely.
A mind that is more in tune with the morontial states of consciousness of being can anticipate an accruement of better health. There is a “however” and that is you do have what I would call “steady state” physical disabilities inherent in your chromosomal structure in the body that you inherited from your parents.
Gross abnormalities are generally not remedial, though through miraculous intervention, they can be. It is not the intention of the Celestial Corps, or the corps of the Son to mediate miraculous happenstances, developments. We do not want to enhance the hysterical side of spiritual belief and development. That is very detrimental. Due to the deficiencies of ego and mind states of individuals, there are individuals who may feel that they are deserving and entitled to miracles, and this is a very retarded and retarding state of mind and attitude.
Student: I see that that may slide toward magical kind of thinking.
MONJORONSON: Yes. Stating an affirmation or making a prayer repeatedly does not make it so. You make much progress in your life not with repetition but through the demand of your will and through “knowing” that you are in consciousness with the Thought Adjuster (**), and when your consciousness is more attuned, parallel, and in alignment with the Thought Adjuster’s consciousness, then your will becomes very powerful. Of course when you achieve those levels of awareness, oftentimes, you will not even pray for those things."
End of Excerpt
Excerpt Vocabulary:
(*) physical/morontia enhancement - the student is referring to two states we exist in while in the flesh. The reader is aware that the physical refers to the body, but the morontia (more . ron . sha) is the material our soul is made of. The soul is invisible but living and even has mind althought it is dependent on our physcial mind while we live in the flesh. The student is asking if the spiritual presence of the Son will strenghen and increase the senses in the physical and in the soul (as feed back to our physical brain).
(**) Thought Adjuster - a modern term introduced by the text book referred to in these posts which is the text that will be used to base teachings on when the educational system is working. The modern term, Thought Adjuster, is an indwelling spirit portion of the Father of All, fully capable of bring and working with the life plans of an individual in the flesh. Attunement means to come in closer alignment with the will of this perfect spirit who is with us every moment we are alive, asleep or awake. The term refers to its function (one of them any way) to help you switch thoughts to the highest concept one knows. It adjusts thinking, and in later years may speak directly to the consciousness as "that still small voice" some have mentioned in religious texts.
Does this give you maybe what you were looking for with your question?
Ron
Yes it does. Thank you.
Another question for you Ron. You said previously that Monjoronson is expected in other cultures around the world. You mentioned another name for him called The Wanderer. I remember finding this site some time ago and I was wondering if Monjoronson and the Maitreya they speak of here are the same person.
www.shareintl.org...
[edit on 9/29/2005 by noise]
Another question for you Ron. You said previously that Monjoronson is expected in other cultures around the world. You mentioned another name for him called The Wanderer. I remember finding this site some time ago and I was wondering if Monjoronson and the Maitreya they speak of here are the same person.
www.shareintl.org...
MAITREYA appears, 'out of the blue', to people everywhere -- always in a form that inspires recognition. In this way he seeks to prepare us for his public emergence, and to communicate his teachings and priorities for a just world. His first such appearance was on 11 June 1988, in Nairobi, Kenya to 6,000 people who saw him as Jesus Christ.
[edit on 9/29/2005 by noise]
Greetings Noise -
Did you happen to notice that the ad on the right hand of the ATS screen last night was the site on the url you take notice to below?
You are asking if the Magisterial Mission and the Maitreya spoken of in that url are the same?
No, but it will confuse people. I have asked some individuals who are in the movement with Benjamin Creme what they believe. I found out it is unusually close to the approaching Magisterial Mission in timing, but there was no incarnation of the Magisterial Son in 1988, in Kenya or anywhere else. So they are talking apples and the Magisterial Mission is oranges. We did not know the Magisterial Mission was going to take place until about 1999 or so. There were hints of it in 1997 and 1998, but the formal announcement of its possibility was in '99.
The Magisterial Mission was not announced by humans, but by Machiventa Melchizedek, our planetary government's chief executive. His official title is Planetary Prince which indicates his wide scope of authority in the affairs of earth.
I am quite interested and curious to see what comes of what they are advertising.
Ron
Did you happen to notice that the ad on the right hand of the ATS screen last night was the site on the url you take notice to below?
You are asking if the Magisterial Mission and the Maitreya spoken of in that url are the same?
No, but it will confuse people. I have asked some individuals who are in the movement with Benjamin Creme what they believe. I found out it is unusually close to the approaching Magisterial Mission in timing, but there was no incarnation of the Magisterial Son in 1988, in Kenya or anywhere else. So they are talking apples and the Magisterial Mission is oranges. We did not know the Magisterial Mission was going to take place until about 1999 or so. There were hints of it in 1997 and 1998, but the formal announcement of its possibility was in '99.
The Magisterial Mission was not announced by humans, but by Machiventa Melchizedek, our planetary government's chief executive. His official title is Planetary Prince which indicates his wide scope of authority in the affairs of earth.
I am quite interested and curious to see what comes of what they are advertising.
Ron
No I didnt get to see that ad. Strange coincedence though!
Ok, so this person they are referring to may or may not be Monjoronson, they could likely be confused. Who knows ....
What I would really like to know is if there are any other groups of people out there (other than Urantia Book believers) that are expecting someone to fill this same role? For me, that would validate what you are saying a little more and probably for others as well.
Ok, so this person they are referring to may or may not be Monjoronson, they could likely be confused. Who knows ....
What I would really like to know is if there are any other groups of people out there (other than Urantia Book believers) that are expecting someone to fill this same role? For me, that would validate what you are saying a little more and probably for others as well.
Hi Noise -
I do not know what these other folks are presenting as truth, but I am willing to wait it out to see what they have in mind.
You ask about other groups to help you validate what I have discussed here. Most readers of the text you refer to do NOT have a clue and would have to ask you what you were talking about.
If you rule out the dozens or even hundreds of groups that have NO affilitation with the text who are the vanguard with this knowledge, I know of virtually no others.
You can rule out mainstream religion for obvious reasons. You can rule out most of the institutions in America who may have an interest in this because they rely upon the counsel of the mainstream religions.
Besides, as I have often pointed out, validation is within and if that takes you, or any one else reading this, one year, two years, a decade, it was worth it for the experience. But I sincerely doubt that you will have to wait that long since time is going to open the process of his appearance to the general public, piece by piece, event by event. I can only present the facts I am party to and the context of those facts as I know them, and as always you may dispute any and all. Those things are not in my control, and not even in the control of the Magisterial Son. The truth is yours to validate.
Ron
I do not know what these other folks are presenting as truth, but I am willing to wait it out to see what they have in mind.
You ask about other groups to help you validate what I have discussed here. Most readers of the text you refer to do NOT have a clue and would have to ask you what you were talking about.
If you rule out the dozens or even hundreds of groups that have NO affilitation with the text who are the vanguard with this knowledge, I know of virtually no others.
You can rule out mainstream religion for obvious reasons. You can rule out most of the institutions in America who may have an interest in this because they rely upon the counsel of the mainstream religions.
Besides, as I have often pointed out, validation is within and if that takes you, or any one else reading this, one year, two years, a decade, it was worth it for the experience. But I sincerely doubt that you will have to wait that long since time is going to open the process of his appearance to the general public, piece by piece, event by event. I can only present the facts I am party to and the context of those facts as I know them, and as always you may dispute any and all. Those things are not in my control, and not even in the control of the Magisterial Son. The truth is yours to validate.
Ron
I see alot of parallels between your thought/speech patterns and that of Edgar Cayce's while he was 'accessing information'.
a few questions:
- can you access information about specific events in the past/present/future?
- can you access pastlife information of individuals?
- can you access information that would help individual seekers to 'be all that they can be' or to live their lifes purpose/plan?
- to what end do you see yourself using this knowledge/ability towards? or what do you think would be the best use of this ability/information?
Thank You :-)
a few questions:
- can you access information about specific events in the past/present/future?
- can you access pastlife information of individuals?
- can you access information that would help individual seekers to 'be all that they can be' or to live their lifes purpose/plan?
- to what end do you see yourself using this knowledge/ability towards? or what do you think would be the best use of this ability/information?
Thank You :-)
Oh, Sun life, Master Wu, I greet you; My spirit within greets you -
Master Wu:
I see alot of parallels between your thought/speech patterns and that of Edgar Cayce's while he was 'accessing information'.
a few questions:
- can you access information about specific events in the past/present/future?
A:
I can not without the presence of the Planetary Supreme. It is her choice, not mine, to provide past history, and even to allow contact. Such contact is not yet mine to be dependably available. Future events are guarded but even there the Supreme may touch the upper reaches of the finite where it blurs into the unfathomable infinity of the Paradise Deities. Universe forecasts are derived mostly in this manner, but these forecasts are very rarely provided to our level. I am not speaking about the details of personal life here. I am speaking to the unfolding events of an epoch not yet entered.
Some present information is available, but I am not the one to ask of these things. There are those who have talents in this direction that will be used.
- can you access pastlife information of individuals?
A:
Few really know what they ask by this question. To disclose it fully would confuse rather than aid spiritual progression. I can say this - one who is with you now may inform you more precisely than I ever can.
- can you access information that would help individual seekers to 'be all that they can be' or to live their lifes purpose/plan?
A: This I can help you with, but I am not permitted to enter into the details myself, but I can suggest process. Each life plan and purpose is known practically from the beginning, but along the way, even the human you make modifications and by those effects, change the details of your destiny. I think you may see why I am not permitted with these details as it touches sacred ground.
- to what end do you see yourself using this knowledge/ability towards? or what do you think would be the best use of this ability/information?
A:
I feel this probe of mind quite deeply as you have a very different energy from most. There are high beings in the universe-- they are called the Secondary Seconophim, who are known by their specialized service as the "Satisfactions of Service", who instruct that we are to strive to enhance the value of service and to augment the satisfactions to be derived therefrom. They have done much to illuminate the deferred rewards inherent in unselfish service, service for the extension of the kingdom of truth.
Such an "extension of the kingdom of truth" is very nearly upon us and many of us have volunteered our service to this truth. I am only one of the anonymous many in the Corps of Destiny gathering on earth. Perhaps you, or others who perchance to read these words, will also place yourself before the divine presence to serve the holy one when he sounds the call. The call will be unmistakeable to the ear and the heart. So worry not.
The need is NOT for belief now, but only to prepare ourselves for the day we do believe and then it will be easy to offer our individual talents to the rehabilitation of this dear planet through the Magisterial actions of a Paradise Son.
This should answer your question in many ways.
I thank you for your kind attention in return.
Thank You :-)
Master Wu:
I see alot of parallels between your thought/speech patterns and that of Edgar Cayce's while he was 'accessing information'.
a few questions:
- can you access information about specific events in the past/present/future?
A:
I can not without the presence of the Planetary Supreme. It is her choice, not mine, to provide past history, and even to allow contact. Such contact is not yet mine to be dependably available. Future events are guarded but even there the Supreme may touch the upper reaches of the finite where it blurs into the unfathomable infinity of the Paradise Deities. Universe forecasts are derived mostly in this manner, but these forecasts are very rarely provided to our level. I am not speaking about the details of personal life here. I am speaking to the unfolding events of an epoch not yet entered.
Some present information is available, but I am not the one to ask of these things. There are those who have talents in this direction that will be used.
- can you access pastlife information of individuals?
A:
Few really know what they ask by this question. To disclose it fully would confuse rather than aid spiritual progression. I can say this - one who is with you now may inform you more precisely than I ever can.
- can you access information that would help individual seekers to 'be all that they can be' or to live their lifes purpose/plan?
A: This I can help you with, but I am not permitted to enter into the details myself, but I can suggest process. Each life plan and purpose is known practically from the beginning, but along the way, even the human you make modifications and by those effects, change the details of your destiny. I think you may see why I am not permitted with these details as it touches sacred ground.
- to what end do you see yourself using this knowledge/ability towards? or what do you think would be the best use of this ability/information?
A:
I feel this probe of mind quite deeply as you have a very different energy from most. There are high beings in the universe-- they are called the Secondary Seconophim, who are known by their specialized service as the "Satisfactions of Service", who instruct that we are to strive to enhance the value of service and to augment the satisfactions to be derived therefrom. They have done much to illuminate the deferred rewards inherent in unselfish service, service for the extension of the kingdom of truth.
Such an "extension of the kingdom of truth" is very nearly upon us and many of us have volunteered our service to this truth. I am only one of the anonymous many in the Corps of Destiny gathering on earth. Perhaps you, or others who perchance to read these words, will also place yourself before the divine presence to serve the holy one when he sounds the call. The call will be unmistakeable to the ear and the heart. So worry not.
The need is NOT for belief now, but only to prepare ourselves for the day we do believe and then it will be easy to offer our individual talents to the rehabilitation of this dear planet through the Magisterial actions of a Paradise Son.
This should answer your question in many ways.
I thank you for your kind attention in return.
Thank You :-)
Weren't we all born into this world selfish and weak? Without support we would have died. As we grow and mature we begin to think of others. We
learn to provide support and assistance to other souls.
During our lifetime on earth we learn to love unconditionally, we give ourselves to other souls, we crave companionship. Why is this? Perhaps this is part of our growth. Purpose of our life here. We learn to overcome our selfish needs and desires. We become more concerned with those around us.
How many of you would give your life for another? Spouse, child, friend, stranger? Those of us who know we would choose another life over our own are learning how to be/feel selfless. We feel for others, not just for ourselves.
Our entire life is filled with obstacles and tests. These experiences and obstacles are all the same test, just different variations, with the same two choices: Selfish or Selfless? Every action you take, every decision you make will ultimately point to one of those two choices. Are we here to learn 'selflessness'?
Have you ever loved so strongly that your desire to consume another soul was/is overwhelming? Do you ever feel like you can't hug close enough? Have you ever made love so tenderly that you broke down with emotion? If we didn't have flesh in our way, could we essentially mesh and become one? Upon doing so would that desire finally be satisfied?
I'll end this with my question:
Is it selfishness and greed in which we must overcome before we can graduate to the next level? Are we close to graduation? Will our whole class (population) graduate or is it our duty/responsibility to educate and coach others before we move on? Using my analogies above, then it would be an 'all pass' or 'all fail' scenerio wouldn't it? Isn't it 'selfish' to assume that only some of us will move on and up? 'Selfless' would be to tutor and assist others in reaching the same conclusions, so we will all graduate together and move to the next level.
Together we are strong and the strong will survive.
During our lifetime on earth we learn to love unconditionally, we give ourselves to other souls, we crave companionship. Why is this? Perhaps this is part of our growth. Purpose of our life here. We learn to overcome our selfish needs and desires. We become more concerned with those around us.
How many of you would give your life for another? Spouse, child, friend, stranger? Those of us who know we would choose another life over our own are learning how to be/feel selfless. We feel for others, not just for ourselves.
Our entire life is filled with obstacles and tests. These experiences and obstacles are all the same test, just different variations, with the same two choices: Selfish or Selfless? Every action you take, every decision you make will ultimately point to one of those two choices. Are we here to learn 'selflessness'?
Have you ever loved so strongly that your desire to consume another soul was/is overwhelming? Do you ever feel like you can't hug close enough? Have you ever made love so tenderly that you broke down with emotion? If we didn't have flesh in our way, could we essentially mesh and become one? Upon doing so would that desire finally be satisfied?
I'll end this with my question:
Is it selfishness and greed in which we must overcome before we can graduate to the next level? Are we close to graduation? Will our whole class (population) graduate or is it our duty/responsibility to educate and coach others before we move on? Using my analogies above, then it would be an 'all pass' or 'all fail' scenerio wouldn't it? Isn't it 'selfish' to assume that only some of us will move on and up? 'Selfless' would be to tutor and assist others in reaching the same conclusions, so we will all graduate together and move to the next level.
Together we are strong and the strong will survive.
Hello, Sourgrapes -
I'll do my best to answer you.
SG:
I'll end this with my question:
Is it selfishness and greed in which we must overcome before we can graduate to the next level?
A:
Maturity has to be grown into and selfishness put aside when most of us discover the negative effects of living only for the self. The young child only knows his needs. He has never considered there are others with needs too. The young mind comes forth this way because it does not yet have the experience of others, but as we age, the mind begins to comprehend that "others" exist and they have legitimate needs too. Our lives for many years see the battle for balance between "my" needs, and "your" needs. For some it takes longer than others to mediate happily between the two demands.
But in all of this, most of us slowly move from the egocentric to the inclusiveness of many different kinds of relationships that are beneficial. But that does not mean that there are never times when this budding love for others, either in brotherhood or sisterhood, or in romantic ways, seems to diminish the self to a door mat or some other insignificance.
When this happens, the defenses go up and the mind demands better balance. In a way, we learn to negotiate these differences in later life, but early in life, it is all or none, and that usually results in the wars in relationships and the exhibition of selfishness-- i.e. an over-reaction and maybe a reversion to our earlier days of taking care of only ourselves.
Selfishness has to be self-realized-- consciously known that it exists-- before anything can be done about it. The cure is spiritual. Spirit, however it impinges on one's life, is a value that we feel must be adhered to. When the human mind aligns itself with these felt values, selfishness begins to melt away. Without this alignment, the mind will never let the wars end.
SG:
Are we close to graduation? Will our whole class (population) graduate or is it our duty/responsibility to educate and coach others before we move on?
A:
It seems to me you are asking several implied questions in addition to the words you use above. I'll try to get at these as well.
"Close to graduation" I assume means, are we all at the same time to leave our material forms and go to some other place?
The answer is, no. The universe does not take an entire population at one time to convert them into the next stage of existence. You may be, I do not know, referring to what some Christian sects predict after the so-called rapture, where the "elect" are lifted up into heaven. However, it just does not work that way, and there is no impending mass evacuation of earth by its citizens to the next phase of existence.
Our duty to others:
The universe is truly based on mutual service to each other where the lesser is pulled up by the greater in order that each, the small and the large, may grow into their potential to be the best citizen of the universe they can be.
I've mentioned in an earlier post about the secondary Seconphim who are called "the Satisfactions of Service" who actually perform the task for beings much higher in development than ourselves the values to be found in service and how it feeds inner development that leads to the joys of existence.
While on earth, Jesus frequently taught about brotherhood and sisterhood, which in essence is that we need not take on the problems of others to solve them for them, but to teach them how to solve their own problem. This way both of you become self sufficient to meet the challenges of life instead of just one of you.
Sisterhood never means demeaning the self, or crushing one's own persona, in the name of someone's happiness or gain. Happiness and gain have to be mutual for these states of human emotions to be realized. Balance is what must be sought inside the personality as between the self and with each other.
SG:
Using my analogies above, then it would be an 'all pass' or 'all fail' scenerio wouldn't it? Isn't it 'selfish' to assume that only some of us will move on and up?
A:
I must use a reference you may not be familiar with as of yet by telling you that the Creator loves all equally. However, when it comes to growth and achievement, it is the Supreme that asks, "Have you learned to be all that you can be?"
Survival in the universe is based on two things:
1) The choice or will to survive;
2) Once having survived, a status is assigned as to one's achivements spiritually.
It is number 2 you seem to be interested in.
I can not possibly give you all that is known on this issue, but I can say that both on earth and in the next assignment of life, each individual is afforded the opportunity to convert themselves into something more than they are at the moment. Some growth is the result of learning; some growth results from the work to unify what you have learned with the values you cherish, and some growth comes from the transendence associated with personality unification-- the balance of mind, matter, and spirit integrated into the meaning of your whole life.
It can be said that upon our own graduation (having left the flesh) to the rehabillitation spheres and universities on the worlds of mansonia, what you did not achieve on earth will be achieved here, and then you may be passed on to the next higher levels in a class, or some specialized group, but rarely alone at this stage of development.
SG:
'Selfless' would be to tutor and assist others in reaching the same conclusions, so we will all graduate together and move to the next level.
Together we are strong and the strong will survive.
A:
I agree completely with these last two statements.
My hope is that these brief answers to you have been helpful.
Thank you.
Ron
I'll do my best to answer you.
SG:
I'll end this with my question:
Is it selfishness and greed in which we must overcome before we can graduate to the next level?
A:
Maturity has to be grown into and selfishness put aside when most of us discover the negative effects of living only for the self. The young child only knows his needs. He has never considered there are others with needs too. The young mind comes forth this way because it does not yet have the experience of others, but as we age, the mind begins to comprehend that "others" exist and they have legitimate needs too. Our lives for many years see the battle for balance between "my" needs, and "your" needs. For some it takes longer than others to mediate happily between the two demands.
But in all of this, most of us slowly move from the egocentric to the inclusiveness of many different kinds of relationships that are beneficial. But that does not mean that there are never times when this budding love for others, either in brotherhood or sisterhood, or in romantic ways, seems to diminish the self to a door mat or some other insignificance.
When this happens, the defenses go up and the mind demands better balance. In a way, we learn to negotiate these differences in later life, but early in life, it is all or none, and that usually results in the wars in relationships and the exhibition of selfishness-- i.e. an over-reaction and maybe a reversion to our earlier days of taking care of only ourselves.
Selfishness has to be self-realized-- consciously known that it exists-- before anything can be done about it. The cure is spiritual. Spirit, however it impinges on one's life, is a value that we feel must be adhered to. When the human mind aligns itself with these felt values, selfishness begins to melt away. Without this alignment, the mind will never let the wars end.
SG:
Are we close to graduation? Will our whole class (population) graduate or is it our duty/responsibility to educate and coach others before we move on?
A:
It seems to me you are asking several implied questions in addition to the words you use above. I'll try to get at these as well.
"Close to graduation" I assume means, are we all at the same time to leave our material forms and go to some other place?
The answer is, no. The universe does not take an entire population at one time to convert them into the next stage of existence. You may be, I do not know, referring to what some Christian sects predict after the so-called rapture, where the "elect" are lifted up into heaven. However, it just does not work that way, and there is no impending mass evacuation of earth by its citizens to the next phase of existence.
Our duty to others:
The universe is truly based on mutual service to each other where the lesser is pulled up by the greater in order that each, the small and the large, may grow into their potential to be the best citizen of the universe they can be.
I've mentioned in an earlier post about the secondary Seconphim who are called "the Satisfactions of Service" who actually perform the task for beings much higher in development than ourselves the values to be found in service and how it feeds inner development that leads to the joys of existence.
While on earth, Jesus frequently taught about brotherhood and sisterhood, which in essence is that we need not take on the problems of others to solve them for them, but to teach them how to solve their own problem. This way both of you become self sufficient to meet the challenges of life instead of just one of you.
Sisterhood never means demeaning the self, or crushing one's own persona, in the name of someone's happiness or gain. Happiness and gain have to be mutual for these states of human emotions to be realized. Balance is what must be sought inside the personality as between the self and with each other.
SG:
Using my analogies above, then it would be an 'all pass' or 'all fail' scenerio wouldn't it? Isn't it 'selfish' to assume that only some of us will move on and up?
A:
I must use a reference you may not be familiar with as of yet by telling you that the Creator loves all equally. However, when it comes to growth and achievement, it is the Supreme that asks, "Have you learned to be all that you can be?"
Survival in the universe is based on two things:
1) The choice or will to survive;
2) Once having survived, a status is assigned as to one's achivements spiritually.
It is number 2 you seem to be interested in.
I can not possibly give you all that is known on this issue, but I can say that both on earth and in the next assignment of life, each individual is afforded the opportunity to convert themselves into something more than they are at the moment. Some growth is the result of learning; some growth results from the work to unify what you have learned with the values you cherish, and some growth comes from the transendence associated with personality unification-- the balance of mind, matter, and spirit integrated into the meaning of your whole life.
It can be said that upon our own graduation (having left the flesh) to the rehabillitation spheres and universities on the worlds of mansonia, what you did not achieve on earth will be achieved here, and then you may be passed on to the next higher levels in a class, or some specialized group, but rarely alone at this stage of development.
SG:
'Selfless' would be to tutor and assist others in reaching the same conclusions, so we will all graduate together and move to the next level.
Together we are strong and the strong will survive.
A:
I agree completely with these last two statements.
My hope is that these brief answers to you have been helpful.
Thank you.
Ron
Ron, I just read your email and thank you for replying. It would seem I have some work to do and I will take that offline when I reach that level and
ask questions then. However, I do still have some questions that I think others might be interested in on the board.
Is Jesus is/was Christ Michael then this would mean that he was more than just a teacher as some have claimed and is celestial. Why then are these teachings that you have described not practiced in today's churches?
What then of the bible? Through the words of God in the bible Jesus stated that a false prophet was to come before his return. And yet you have said that we basically put too much stock in what we know to be the antichrist.
I guess my intellect is taking over again because I am confusing myself.
Is Jesus is/was Christ Michael then this would mean that he was more than just a teacher as some have claimed and is celestial. Why then are these teachings that you have described not practiced in today's churches?
What then of the bible? Through the words of God in the bible Jesus stated that a false prophet was to come before his return. And yet you have said that we basically put too much stock in what we know to be the antichrist.
I guess my intellect is taking over again because I am confusing myself.
Well, Dday, seems we're posting on the same threads. I'm not stalking you, I swear.
The bible has been written, rewritten, translated over and over, and written again by men in the flesh. They are writting the words of Jesus and God in their own perception.
Check this out:
"Are you really attempting to climb that mountain?" (Such a simple sentence which I'm sure you understand what I'm really asking, right?)
(Same sentence with emphasis on different words in bold)
"Are you really attempting to climb that mountain?" (Implying doubt in whether it's actually you who intends to climb the mountain, like "Are you attempting to climb that mountain? Or is Jim the one who is attempting to climb the mountain?"
"Are you really attempting to climb that mountain?" (Implying you may be kidding, or are you serious about climbing that mountain?)
"Are you really attempting to climb that mountain?" (Or are you going to just 'do it'?)
"Are you really attempting to climb that mountain?"(or do you plan to drive up it?)
"Are you really attempting to climb that mountain?"(or that much smaller one in front?)
"Are you really attempting to climb that mountain?"( No sh*t? Man, you crazy!)
I guess what I'm getting at is how differently we can interpret the exact same sentence. Since we are reading and not hearing the words, we are simply making our own judgement on the author's meaning.
The bible has been written, rewritten, translated over and over, and written again by men in the flesh. They are writting the words of Jesus and God in their own perception.
Check this out:
"Are you really attempting to climb that mountain?" (Such a simple sentence which I'm sure you understand what I'm really asking, right?)
(Same sentence with emphasis on different words in bold)
"Are you really attempting to climb that mountain?" (Implying doubt in whether it's actually you who intends to climb the mountain, like "Are you attempting to climb that mountain? Or is Jim the one who is attempting to climb the mountain?"
"Are you really attempting to climb that mountain?" (Implying you may be kidding, or are you serious about climbing that mountain?)
"Are you really attempting to climb that mountain?" (Or are you going to just 'do it'?)
"Are you really attempting to climb that mountain?"(or do you plan to drive up it?)
"Are you really attempting to climb that mountain?"(or that much smaller one in front?)
"Are you really attempting to climb that mountain?"( No sh*t? Man, you crazy!)
I guess what I'm getting at is how differently we can interpret the exact same sentence. Since we are reading and not hearing the words, we are simply making our own judgement on the author's meaning.
Hello DDay,
DDay:
I do still have some questions that I think others might be interested in on the board.
Is Jesus is/was Christ Michael then this would mean that he was more than just a teacher as some have claimed and is celestial. Why then are these teachings that you have described not practiced in today's churches?
A:
You ask multiple questions which are intertwined like spaghetti. Bear with me as I attempt to untangle the strands.
1) Jesus is celestial. He was the incarnation of a Creator Son of central universe origin.
2) The universe categorizes the different kinds of created life into major Orders of life, just as we do in our sciences. In fact, where do you think the idea to so use something like orders and phylum comes from? A Creator Son is of the Order of Michael. We are classified as the human order. Angels that minister to humans are of the Seraphic Order, and so on.
3) When the Creator Son finished his bestowal on our planet, many who watched from on high knew what had happened to end it so cruelly. In memory of his experience, and as a short hand way of referring to his death, they began to refer to our world as the World of the Cross. As part of that reference, the Creator Son has also been informally known in the universe as Christ Michael.
4) The Creator Son, as he prepared to leave for out planet to undergo the incarnation through natural birth, was given a group of instructions from the Seventh Bestowal Commission. Among the instructions was this item:
Item 6 of additional counsel: “To the end that you may not unnecessarily contribute to the creation of subsequent stereotyped systems of [the planet’s] religious beliefs or other types of nonprogressive religious loyalties, we advise you still further: Leave no writings behind you on the planet. Refrain from all writing upon permanent materials; enjoin your associates to make no images or other likenesses of yourself in the flesh. See that nothing potentially idolatrous is left on the planet at the time of your departure.”
5) Jesus only wrote in sand or charcoal so that it could be kicked over or erased by his hand, as he well remembered this and other proscriptions of the Commission’s counsel. The Apostles were not encouraged to write anything until Jesus left them, and even then they did it from memory or notes made many years later. Even so, the medieval church began the practice of so-called sacred relics thought to be the parts and pieces of clothing of the apostles and the bones of the martyrs. This Jesus had been watchful about preventing, but the practice still developed.
6) Whole books have been written on the reasons why certain teachings became canonized and others not so. I will really compress the answer due to space limitations as to why these things were not taught in the church this way:
a) Some things Jesus did not share with the apostles, so they never could write it down.
b) Other things the apostles were allowed to participate in, Jesus asked them to keep it to themselves;
c) Those who spread the organization of the Christian Church late first and in the second century were well removed from the apostolic tradition and followed the teachings of Paul, which effectively ended a religion based on the teachings of Jesus to a religion about Jesus. His teachings, or at least what could be remembered about them, became the four Gospels, and were essentially downgraded as secondary to the persona of Jesus.
The teachings of Jesus will be revived as they should be in the future of this planet.
DDay
What then of the bible? Through the words of God in the bible Jesus stated that a false prophet was to come before his return.
A:
Jesus never uttered the term. The term “antichrist” is much later, but Jesus did speak to false teachings. They were already at hand as he lived. Here is a direct quote about false teachings from the “Life of Jesus”, from the universe records published in the text recommended by some readers on this thread. [ Page 1961/Section 5; The URANTIA Book, Chicago, 1955]
This does not fully answer you, but I am sure this subject will be raised frequently, and it may never be resolved here. I keep reminding all, that the truth rings bells within; truth is attractive and we feel it; it resonates. We verify truth by our own internal truth compass and the Spirit of Truth, which everyone is encircuited, will testify to it. It takes awhile, but if the truth is to be honestly known it has to be pursued, its nature understood, and its reflection of light into our minds is sensed as if flowing from a spiritual source and not of our own.
Thank you.
Ron
DDay:
I do still have some questions that I think others might be interested in on the board.
Is Jesus is/was Christ Michael then this would mean that he was more than just a teacher as some have claimed and is celestial. Why then are these teachings that you have described not practiced in today's churches?
A:
You ask multiple questions which are intertwined like spaghetti. Bear with me as I attempt to untangle the strands.
1) Jesus is celestial. He was the incarnation of a Creator Son of central universe origin.
2) The universe categorizes the different kinds of created life into major Orders of life, just as we do in our sciences. In fact, where do you think the idea to so use something like orders and phylum comes from? A Creator Son is of the Order of Michael. We are classified as the human order. Angels that minister to humans are of the Seraphic Order, and so on.
3) When the Creator Son finished his bestowal on our planet, many who watched from on high knew what had happened to end it so cruelly. In memory of his experience, and as a short hand way of referring to his death, they began to refer to our world as the World of the Cross. As part of that reference, the Creator Son has also been informally known in the universe as Christ Michael.
4) The Creator Son, as he prepared to leave for out planet to undergo the incarnation through natural birth, was given a group of instructions from the Seventh Bestowal Commission. Among the instructions was this item:
Item 6 of additional counsel: “To the end that you may not unnecessarily contribute to the creation of subsequent stereotyped systems of [the planet’s] religious beliefs or other types of nonprogressive religious loyalties, we advise you still further: Leave no writings behind you on the planet. Refrain from all writing upon permanent materials; enjoin your associates to make no images or other likenesses of yourself in the flesh. See that nothing potentially idolatrous is left on the planet at the time of your departure.”
5) Jesus only wrote in sand or charcoal so that it could be kicked over or erased by his hand, as he well remembered this and other proscriptions of the Commission’s counsel. The Apostles were not encouraged to write anything until Jesus left them, and even then they did it from memory or notes made many years later. Even so, the medieval church began the practice of so-called sacred relics thought to be the parts and pieces of clothing of the apostles and the bones of the martyrs. This Jesus had been watchful about preventing, but the practice still developed.
6) Whole books have been written on the reasons why certain teachings became canonized and others not so. I will really compress the answer due to space limitations as to why these things were not taught in the church this way:
a) Some things Jesus did not share with the apostles, so they never could write it down.
b) Other things the apostles were allowed to participate in, Jesus asked them to keep it to themselves;
c) Those who spread the organization of the Christian Church late first and in the second century were well removed from the apostolic tradition and followed the teachings of Paul, which effectively ended a religion based on the teachings of Jesus to a religion about Jesus. His teachings, or at least what could be remembered about them, became the four Gospels, and were essentially downgraded as secondary to the persona of Jesus.
The teachings of Jesus will be revived as they should be in the future of this planet.
DDay
What then of the bible? Through the words of God in the bible Jesus stated that a false prophet was to come before his return.
A:
Jesus never uttered the term. The term “antichrist” is much later, but Jesus did speak to false teachings. They were already at hand as he lived. Here is a direct quote about false teachings from the “Life of Jesus”, from the universe records published in the text recommended by some readers on this thread. [ Page 1961/Section 5; The URANTIA Book, Chicago, 1955]
“And then Jesus went over to Thomas, who, standing up, heard him say: ‘Thomas, you have often lacked faith; however, when you have had your seasons with doubt, you have never lacked courage. I know well that the false prophets and spurious teachers will not deceive you. After I have gone, your brethren will the more appreciate your critical way of viewing new teachings. And when you all are scattered to the ends of the earth in the times to come, remember that you are still my ambassador.’”
This does not fully answer you, but I am sure this subject will be raised frequently, and it may never be resolved here. I keep reminding all, that the truth rings bells within; truth is attractive and we feel it; it resonates. We verify truth by our own internal truth compass and the Spirit of Truth, which everyone is encircuited, will testify to it. It takes awhile, but if the truth is to be honestly known it has to be pursued, its nature understood, and its reflection of light into our minds is sensed as if flowing from a spiritual source and not of our own.
Thank you.
Ron
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