We Need A Rover On Europa!

Originally posted by ThehorrorofAtlantis
Are we really in any position, technologically, to be thinking about colonization? Does anybody here see these rover projects as being the first steps of implementing such a colonization programme?

Yes and no. We need to start thinking about it, and we need to start thinking about it before we can do it, so now is a perfectly good time to start thinking. A rover isn't really a sign of colonization, just a sign of scientific interest, but it doesn't hurt when it comes to possible plans for the future.

Is it plausible that a martian staging base might be used in the event that conditions on Europa are more favourable?

Possibly. Depends on the circumstances, a Lunar base might be more helpful, but I say both. Mars would be a great testing ground, but also a potentially good location for the takeoff sites for the actual missions. It depends how we use it.

What about Martian Lunar bases? It's got a cpl moons of its own... it would make the projects even cheaper by using the moons for relaying and construction yards while crew and other human operations take place on Mars.
Heck I dont expect to ever walk on Mars so I'll be quite happy with the high res surface mapping whenever thats finished.

we dont need a rover we need a drill to go through the ice and a robot that can travel under water.

we dont need a rover we need a drill to go through the ice and a robot that can travel under water.

True, but you must catch my drift???

I meant a machine that can travel around Europa and investigate, and yes you are right it would have to be more of a submarine than a rover!

s/rover/swimmer/

Originally posted by apc
What about Martian Lunar bases? It's got a cpl moons of its own... it would make the projects even cheaper by using the moons for relaying and construction yards while crew and other human operations take place on Mars.

They're not big enough, nor heavy enough for anything major, but they should be a definite point of interest. Communications relaying was exactly what I had in mind, especially if the orbits work out nicely.

Mons Olympus would make a good radio tower...

Originally posted by Amorymeltzer

Mons Olympus would make a good radio tower...

Great idea!

If there were small bases on certain planets moons then we could store supplies etc and make it possible for us to explore further out into our solar system.

Now all we need is a new shuttle to get us there!!!

Unfortunately, like everything else, the space programs are held by the grips of capitalism/banking and it is not the fault of the exploration itself, it is the fault of our society putting a price tag on it. The universe is there, free to be explored and we have the Earth and our brains to explore it with.

Want to know what an easy solution would be to begin the process of a cool human existence for most people? Id start with this; end the ability to buy and sell money, stop the practice of charging interest on loans (and of course savings), money will represent work done over time and lastly-ish, corporations will be public property... their existence relies on us, not the other way round. Instead of 'dog eat dog' we could be 'dog wags tail at other dog'. It’s possible.

Originally posted by Dae
Instead of 'dog eat dog' we could be 'dog wags tail at other dog'. It’s possible.

But what if adog is "friendly" to another dog? What then?

I actualyl must disagree. I think by actively campaigning for this sort of work, with help from the people, corporations, and governments, this sort of thing would best be possible. Capitalism needs to get a little smarter, a little nicer, but I think it's the best way to go.

It would be a great idea to put a driller/rover/sub on Europa.

I hope we do in the next few years instead of wasting all our money on the obviously dead Mars!

We may well inhabit Mars one day but why keep sending rovers up there?
We know whats there so just leave it till we can afford to build a base there!

Originally posted by Identity_Unknown
We may well inhabit Mars one day but why keep sending rovers up there?
We know whats there so just leave it till we can afford to build a base there!

Well, one answer to this is that yes, now we do know what is up there. We didn't before.

However, another is that it's always best to learn as much as possible about your future home.

I think it would be almost impossible to drile the hole into the ice on Europa with current technology (presuming the use of small unmanned probe). Does anybodu know how thick the ice is? I think I have read somewhere it could be more than 70km. Now can somebody tell me how can small rover drill into such depth? And how will it comunicate through the ice? The hole entrance on top will froze again long before reaching the liquid ocean. Look at the current oil drilling technology - how much it is necessary to drill hole few kilometers deep. So I think there would be a need for large manned mision. But some small rover can be send with seismo sensors - it can at least detect if there is really water under the surface.

Drill? Who said anything about drilling We would send a Nuke powered rover to melt through the ice, it's the only way it could be done.

Originally posted by sardion2000
Drill? Who said anything about drilling

We would send a Nuke powered rover to melt through the ice, it's the only way it could be done.

But how will it communicate with you/Earth when under the ice? The tunel/hole will freeze immediately behind it. It can use some cable and comunication device on top, but this cable needs to be over 70km long! That's a pretty much weight.

Originally posted by longbow

Originally posted by sardion2000
Drill? Who said anything about drilling

We would send a Nuke powered rover to melt through the ice, it's the only way it could be done.

But how will it communicate with you/Earth when under the ice? The tunel/hole will freeze immediately behind it. It can use some cable and comunication device on top, but this cable needs to be over 70km long! That's a pretty much weight.

Look....we sent a man to the Moon in the 60's when the technology was so poor we dint even have simple things like mobile phones so im sure we could sort something out for Europa!

There'd just be a huge lag, but that's no problem at all. An antenna could easily be fashioned, although I must admit I'm no expert.

Originally posted by Amorymeltzer
There'd just be a huge lag, but that's no problem at all. An antenna could easily be fashioned, although I must admit I'm no expert.

Yes there would probably be a delay of a few hours but what difference does that make! To find life on another planet im sur the scientists could cope with a delay of weeks!

To be honest I think an under water rover is entirly possible because we have have already perfected such probes to explore our own oceans, I mean its not that huge of a leap to adapt them for exploration of Europa's oceans.

We also have the perfect testing sites for such probes , our oceans and Antartica are the perfect place to test the rovers and the technology we will use to get through the ice crust, be it heat or plain old drilling.We have the technology now im sure of that.



[edit on 7-9-2005 by Merkeva]

werent they using lake vostok in antarctica (or a similar geographical object) as a "training" study of europa?

it think its better if we just stick to terrestrial objects that closely resemble the extra-terrestrial objects. eventually well send a probe there. just like mars.

though, i dont know why anyone would want to live on such a distant planet. until we get much faster forms of space travel, a human colony on europa is very impractical.

[edit on 8-9-2005 by purelogik]

Personaly I find europa more fascinating than mars, because we dont know what is down there, it may be microscopic life, or maybe primitive fish like creatures , in stead of spending money on mars why not spend them on a more intresting place.
Europa is the only posible location in our solar sistem that may have life.

Posibilities may be that it's just an ice cube and there is no ocean under it, like the coments are , frosen to the core, never the less life is present any way, even microscopic life, if there is ice there is life, if there is an ocean there might be vulanic activities under it like gizers and vents that keep things worm, it's not the first time it hapens, far away from the sun I belive on pluto or one of the planets distant from the sun they found active vulcanos under the ice that erupted, so nothing is imposible, with something active under that ice you may have life conditions, especialy when there is water.
Since jupiter is a gas giant and the moons were formed from it's content it's a posibility that there might be something that keeps the place worm deep under, lava can exist and flow under the ocean on earth, I think we shoul just drop mars and pick up europa.




[edit on 15-9-2006 by pepsi78]