We Need A Rover On Europa!

Dont get me wrong. I just don't see the connection between pictures of Martian rocks and a better life for us here. Local space exploration has benefitted us in many highly apparent ways. Why the need to go to Mars or Europa though. If I am attacking anyone it isn't directed at anyone here and I apologise if you feel that way. I mean to attack the fools that squander our resources in what is, to the guy on the street, an highly pointless and trivial excercise? Can you show me how pictures of rock are benefiting us?

Think of it this way, every probe we send has all the newest, most experimental technologies(which is why they have a higher failure rate because they are so experimental) like High Efficiency Solar Panels, Solid State Heat to Electricity converters, improved optics for use in Earth Monitoring satellites, improved Insulation that can be used eventually in clothing and housing. The list goes on an on.

www.sti.nasa.gov...

www.sti.nasa.gov...

www.thespaceplace.com...
WATER PURIFICATION SYSTEM - NASA-developed municipal-size water treatment system for developing nations, called the Regenerable Biocide Delivery Unit, uses iodine rather than chlorine to kill bacteria.
....
SOLAR ENERGY - NASA-pioneered photovoltaic power system for spacecraft applications was applied to programs to expand terrestrial applications as a viable alternative energy source in areas where no conventional power source exists.
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WEATHER FORECASTING AID - Space Shuttle environmental control technology led to the development of the Barorator which continuously measures the atmospheric pressure and calculates the instantaneous rate of change.
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FOREST MANAGEMENT - A NASA-initiated satellite scanning system monitors and maps forestation by detecting radiation reflected and emitted from trees.
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SENSORS FOR ENVIRONMENTAL CONTROL - NASA development of an instrument for use in space life support research led to commercial development of a system to monitor an industrial process stream to assure that the effluent water's pH level is in compliance with environmental regulations.
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PLANT RESEARCH - NASA research on future moon and Mars bases is investigating using plants for food, oxygen, and water to reduce the need for outside supplies. This research utilizes Hydroponics (liquid nutrient solutions) instead of soil to support plant growth and finds applications for vegetable production on Earth.
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FIRE RESISTANT MATERIAL - Materials include chemically-treated fabric for sheets, uniforms for hazardous material handlers, crew's clothing, furniture, interior walls of submersibles and auto racer and refueler suits.

Read the 3rd link in it's entirety, it's a real eye-opener. The point is we don't know what we're gonna learn out there that's the point. Most great breakthrough are made by mistake so if we stop doing research like this then we'll never get lucky so to speak.

[edit on 14-5-2005 by sardion2000]

ThehorrorofAtlantis, I don't think this is what you're looking for, so sardion put some of it pretty well, but one of the best ways it makes our lives better is by giving us more information. Learning as much as we can about anything we can is human nature, and not only is it responsible for a lot of our successes, but tseeking knowledge is one of the best things we as a race can do. The pursuit of knowledge is just about the purest thing we can do.

I agree with Amorymeltzer:

Learning as much as we can about anything we can is human nature

That is what makes us as some would see it "intelligent" beings. That is why we have continued to strive as a species.

The Mars and Europa missions are best conceptualized as Basic R&D. Spending today to study chemical reactions, drug interactions, looking for hidden elements etc. has no immediate practical or commercial benefit. But it provides a basis to use as a research platform to utilize them in the future.

Today new geological, weather, wind and radiological processes are being discovered and studied on Mars. True, this will not provide fish and chips to the starving of Darfur in 2005. But some practical benefit might be had in the future -- just like all R&D. As an example: Werner Von Braun's Rockets could have been argued against in 1955 -- there were so many other earthly needs at the time that could have used his funding -- but the satellites put in space by these rockets and their descendants are completely indispensable to our way of life today.

Likewise on Europa: A different DNA stream or unthought of life processes could revolutionize biology.

If I gave offense or seemed harsh I too apologize.

No Landru please, you make some very valid points. I gues we won't know until we try. I feel that we would bebetter off attending to our own backyard first. Europa, Mars etc will still be there tomorrow right? But waiting until all our problems are sorted out here could end the prgram indefinitely.

But waiting until all our problems are sorted out here could end the prgram indefinitely.

Or forever. Remember all of our eggs are in one basket so to speak.

I agree totally. I don't know why we're wasting our time with Mars. There is more of a promise with Europa as far as comlex life is concered imho.

Originally posted by HALLOWEEN78
I agree totally. I don't know why we're wasting our time with Mars. There is more of a promise with Europa as far as comlex life is concered imho.

Mars is much more suitable for Colonization though... Europa is purely curiosity.

Originally posted by sardion2000
Mars is much more suitable for Colonization though... Europa is purely curiosity.

I agree with that totally aswell lol. I can see how it would be a better investment to colonize Mars instead of Europa. Also, the life on Europa would/will be harder to get to than the life on Mars. Not to mention that Mars is only a stones throw away from Earth compared to Europa.

Originally posted by sardion2000

Or forever. Remember all of our eggs are in one basket so to speak.

LOL. I agree.

ThehorrorofAtlantis,
overpopulation = starvation, etc...

Exploration of any new worlds should be somewhat paramount to anbody who wants to see people survive. This planet cannot contain us much longer.

Yeah, so let's move from a dying planet to one that's already dead?

Originally posted by HALLOWEEN78
Yeah, so let's move from a dying planet to one that's already dead?

More like learning to live with as little as possible. We need that knowledge here on Earth baddly. Surviving in the Cosmos means Suviving on Earth., in the Long Run.

Please read my earlier posts detailing just how much ALL space exploration effects us all.

I was really only kidding. Being a smart ass if you will. I understand the values of space exploration.

Originally posted by sardion2000
Remember all of our eggs are in one basket so to speak.

As Mark Twain said, "Put all of your eggs in one basket, and watch that basket!"

R&D is a great way of putting it, and it's so true. A lot of science as a whole is learning what we know and can do, and honing our skills and techniques so we can do more science better.

I can see how it would be a better investment to colonize Mars instead of Europa. Also, the life on Europa would/will be harder to get to than the life on Mars. Not to mention that Mars is only a stones throw away from Earth compared to Europa.

I wasnt meaning we should ever be thinking of colonizing Europa, i just think that it would be nice to know if we had alien neighbours here in our own solar system.

The only reason i think we should be sending a rover is curiosity.

It would easily be the biggest scientific find EVER if we found life under Europa's ice!

Originally posted by MickeyDee
It would easily be the biggest scientific find EVER if we found life under Europa's ice!

Or Mars. Or Venus. Or through SETI or astrobiology.

I agree with you, it's a good place to send something, but it's less urgent than spending in the proper places.

Are we really in any position, technologically, to be thinking about colonization? Does anybody here see these rover projects as being the first steps of implementing such a colonization programme?

To me Mars, being closer, would be a much more vialble option. The logistical problems of providing reliable supply to a colony on Europa would be more than twice that of the same on Mars.

Is it plausible that a martian staging base might be used in the event that conditions on Europa are more favourable?

1. It's a more extreme environment then Mars so any technology we send over there will have to be built to withstand it, and any such developments will have implications on earth and mars. What we will learn from this mission is how the various hardware and instruments performed(under adverse conditions).

2. Europa may be more distant then Mars but any and all efforts to explore this moon will have an effect on how we go about Colonizing the solar system. More Info = More Capabilities

3. All steps into space are BABY stems. We are rather primitive in this respect due to the paltry funding doled out by Politicians to make them look good(to certain constituancies whos people actually know how much this type of Exploration helps us all)

4. We will gain Invaluable insight into yet another planet which we know nothing about, and that is always a good thing. It's just like how we study mice to try to better understand ourselves(allthough some people say it's the other way around little Adams Humour for ya)

Originally posted by sardion2000
4. We will gain Invaluable insight into yet another planet which we know nothing about, and that is always a good thing. It's just like how we study mice to try to better understand ourselves(allthough some people say it's the other way around

little Adams Humour for ya)

hehe... nice




42...peace...