Woo warnings from the other side.

originally posted by: All Seeing Eye
a reply to: Venkuish1

No evidence exists

If you are trained not to look for that evidence, you will never find it... But even at that, the evidence is a highly personal thing. So, you are calling everyone who has claimed a "Life After" as in reincarnation or those who have had "Near Death", liars. Quite a statement in itself. Why would you do that seeing its impossible for you to know all them personally to give a valid statement, testament, opinion.

Though, given all that it actually may be true that their is no afterlife, in your personal life. Those that have sold their eternal souls, are done, finished. Is that your case?

Say, you a Free Mason?

People who die never come back. Fact.

People who are not dead but they are near death are still alive. Some survive but others pass away. Nothing supernatural about it.

There is no evidence of life after death and everything supernatural claimed in this and other threads.

You don't need to be free mason to dismiss the supernatural claims made in the absence of any evidence. Including God.

No evidence for the existence of a soul either. I think the 21st century doesn't need views and ideas that belong to other eras and religious views that were constructed back in the bronze age.

Human, animals, plants, and everything we know dies and that's all (according to the evidence). Science doesn't accept soul, ghosts and apparitions, spirits and demons. I suppose you understand my point.

originally posted by: Venkuish1

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Venkuish1

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: annonentity

Would dead people have any better idea of what is going to happen than anyone alive?

What is the source of their data, and its reliability, and what confidence can we put in the sources?

Dead people are just dead.
They have ceased to exist when they died.

There is not a shred of evidence for the afterlife religious driven stories.

What of the dead who are resuscitated? They don't come back as empty shells, they still have their personality and memories, so something seems to survive death.

Not only that, but significant numbers of those who are resuscitated near and after clinical death, recount experiences that occurred to them during the time they were dead. Definitely more of them describe post death experiences than people who recall occurrences while they were comatose, or unconscious from anaesthetic. And there are great similarities in their accounts (but also some differences from religious teachings).

My wife was one of those who had a near death experience after a severe motorbike accident. Prior to the experience, she wasn't religious at all.

And your insistence that there is no evidence of the supernatural ignores the experiences observed by significant numbers of people all through human history.

Personally, I have observed dozens of people who have been supernaturally healed, some of them of quite obvious physical conditions, and on the spot, with no time for natural healing to have occurred.

I have seen rain fall from a cloudless summer night sky and put out a fire that was threatening to burn down my house, when the water pressure and the hose I was using could barely reach the areas where the flames were burning.

I have experienced and seen the temperature drop and everyone's breath clouding up when dealing with someone who was spiritually oppressed, and have seen their appearance completely change when they were freed.

I have experienced a couple of incidents of suddenly knowing things, in considerable detail, with no way of getting or learning that information, and equally strange was that several people I was with at the time all commented on somehow receiving the same information.

Weird and often religious stuff happens all the time, to most people on the planet. It is evidence of something.

You seem to have a strange idea about life and death.

Death as defined clinically and legally, is a process of stages: Stages of death - Wikipedia.

The science supports a very flexible definition of death:

Resuscitation from clinical death: pathophysiologic limits and therapeutic potentials

Post-resuscitation shock: recent advances in pathophysiology and treatment

Awareness during Resuscitation - II: A multi-center study of consciousness and awareness in cardiac arrest

I recall a few days ago when you made the claim there is serious evidence for the existence of God without providing any. Now you are claiming people are coming back from the dead and there is the 'other side'.

I explained that the existence of all matter and forces are evidence. There is nothing in science that evidences the creation of forces or matter from nothing, yet they do exist.

All natural explanations require the pre-existence of forces and matter, and so the only explanations that have any credible weight are supernatural by default.

The same amount of evidence exists for God and the other side, zero!

What does the empirical and objective existence of everything evidence?

There are no theories in science that can explain the existence of everything, from nothing. There is no evidence of 'something from nothing' for the whole history of science.

But there IS a universe of matter and forces there.

If people can come back from the dead then why your grandfather or grandmother isn't coming back from the dead?

My grandparents were all devout Christians. My belief is that they are alive, but in spiritual form. Physical bodies degrade over time, as a consequence of entropy. Some things, such as photons and spiritual forms, are eternal.

What you described 'near death experiences' are people who haven't died despite the misconceptions that they have. Once you are dead then that's all and there is no way back as we all know.

That is a fairly bold claim. Therefore the burden of proof is upon you to present evidence to support that claim. An absence of evidence does not support the claim.

You need to revise what evidence is because there is evidence for any of the claims made in support of the supernatural.

Yes, there is evidence that supports the claim that there is a supernatural. But like all evidence, it must ne interpreted.

You can't discard the evidence because you dislike the interpretation. You can offer an alternative interpretation supported by evidence, but if there is no evidence, as you say, then the alternative is hardly credible.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Venkuish1

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Venkuish1

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: annonentity

Would dead people have any better idea of what is going to happen than anyone alive?

What is the source of their data, and its reliability, and what confidence can we put in the sources?

Dead people are just dead.
They have ceased to exist when they died.

There is not a shred of evidence for the afterlife religious driven stories.

What of the dead who are resuscitated? They don't come back as empty shells, they still have their personality and memories, so something seems to survive death.

Not only that, but significant numbers of those who are resuscitated near and after clinical death, recount experiences that occurred to them during the time they were dead. Definitely more of them describe post death experiences than people who recall occurrences while they were comatose, or unconscious from anaesthetic. And there are great similarities in their accounts (but also some differences from religious teachings).

My wife was one of those who had a near death experience after a severe motorbike accident. Prior to the experience, she wasn't religious at all.

And your insistence that there is no evidence of the supernatural ignores the experiences observed by significant numbers of people all through human history.

Personally, I have observed dozens of people who have been supernaturally healed, some of them of quite obvious physical conditions, and on the spot, with no time for natural healing to have occurred.

I have seen rain fall from a cloudless summer night sky and put out a fire that was threatening to burn down my house, when the water pressure and the hose I was using could barely reach the areas where the flames were burning.

I have experienced and seen the temperature drop and everyone's breath clouding up when dealing with someone who was spiritually oppressed, and have seen their appearance completely change when they were freed.

I have experienced a couple of incidents of suddenly knowing things, in considerable detail, with no way of getting or learning that information, and equally strange was that several people I was with at the time all commented on somehow receiving the same information.

Weird and often religious stuff happens all the time, to most people on the planet. It is evidence of something.

You seem to have a strange idea about life and death.

Death as defined clinically and legally, is a process of stages: Stages of death - Wikipedia.

The science supports a very flexible definition of death:

Resuscitation from clinical death: pathophysiologic limits and therapeutic potentials

Post-resuscitation shock: recent advances in pathophysiology and treatment

Awareness during Resuscitation - II: A multi-center study of consciousness and awareness in cardiac arrest

I recall a few days ago when you made the claim there is serious evidence for the existence of God without providing any. Now you are claiming people are coming back from the dead and there is the 'other side'.

I explained that the existence of all matter and forces are evidence. There is nothing in science that evidences the creation of forces or matter from nothing, yet they do exist.

All natural explanations require the pre-existence of forces and matter, and so the only explanations that have any credible weight are supernatural by default.

The same amount of evidence exists for God and the other side, zero!

What does the empirical and objective existence of everything evidence?

There are no theories in science that can explain the existence of everything, from nothing. There is no evidence of 'something from nothing' for the whole history of science.

But there IS a universe of matter and forces there.

If people can come back from the dead then why your grandfather or grandmother isn't coming back from the dead?

My grandparents were all devout Christians. My belief is that they are alive, but in spiritual form. Physical bodies degrade over time, as a consequence of entropy. Some things, such as photons and spiritual forms, are eternal.

What you described 'near death experiences' are people who haven't died despite the misconceptions that they have. Once you are dead then that's all and there is no way back as we all know.

That is a fairly bold claim. Therefore the burden of proof is upon you to present evidence to support that claim. An absence of evidence does not support the claim.

You need to revise what evidence is because there is evidence for any of the claims made in support of the supernatural.

Yes, there is evidence that supports the claim that there is a supernatural. But like all evidence, it must ne interpreted.

You can't discard the evidence because you dislike the interpretation. You can offer an alternative interpretation supported by evidence, but if there is no evidence, as you say, then the alternative is hardly credible.

Death doesn't have different or flexible explanations. Once you die that's it. No way back. And as I said so many times all physical and biochemical processes have natural causes. There is n that has supernatural causes.

Can you tell me anyone who died and has come back from the dead. Let's start with our grandparents and grand-grandparents.

There is no evidence of anything supernatural. Only claims there is something supernatural. Science doesn't accept these claims due to the complete absence of evidence.

a reply to: chr0naut

The burden of proof is not on me but on those who claim there is another life after this one when they have the 'near death experiences'. They are not dead but still alive and that's why some can survive but others pass away. You need to understand the basics in science first before you make these claims and try to shift the burden of proof to me. It's hilarious!;

You are very confused and try to mix up physics and biochemistry with the supernatural.

Please stop!

a reply to: Venkuish1

The irony in asking if you are a freemason is that freemasons have to believe in a deity.

a reply to: Venkuish1

It all depends on your point of view, and the coping mechanism that you use to ground yourself. If these coping mechanisms are undeveloped, then a reality that is generated by consciousness seems to be a real possibility. Take a child who still believes in unicorns and Fairies, then have a look at Children who almost disappeared. Not all the reports can be taken as childish imagination especially. Where they disappear for six months and then appear back at the same spot like nothing has happened.

a reply to: Venkuish1

You need to understand the basics in science first before you make these claims and try to shift the burden of proof to me.

Science? No proof your a real person and not some machine zombie. Therefore, scientifically, you and your point, doesn't exist. Science, starts with the observation, and I just cant observe you!

originally posted by: All Seeing Eye
a reply to: Venkuish1

You need to understand the basics in science first before you make these claims and try to shift the burden of proof to me.

Science? No proof your a real person and not some machine zombie. Therefore, scientifically, you and your point, doesn't exist. Science, starts with the observation, and I just cant observe you!

Wow! Did you come up with these lines yourself or you had some help with it?

Let's restate this. No evidence so far for the existence of the supernatural world, life after death, and God. Complete absence of evidence and that's why people believe and often they have strong beliefs. Now if you consider I am an AI program still what ingage said is true.

a reply to: All Seeing Eye

Here is another one that defies the present paradigm, it looks like the glitches are increasing with modern mobile phones. One is interesting when a guy phones his friend when he left the phone on the bed.

The other side of what exactly?

a reply to: Venkuish1

Wow! Did you come up with these lines yourself or you had some help with it?

Naw, I dont use "Ghost Writers", how about you? LOL LOL

originally posted by: All Seeing Eye
a reply to: Venkuish1

Wow! Did you come up with these lines yourself or you had some help with it?

Naw, I dont use "Ghost Writers", how about you? LOL LOL

What is a ghost writer?