Trump Must Pay Half a Billion Dollars Before He Can Appeal New York Decision

a reply to: Threadbarer

Wonder what those valuations will be?

originally posted by: WeMustCare
a reply to: Threadbarer

MSNBC this morning says the proceeds from sale of the properties will go to those who Trump damaged and swindled for years. Who would that be? I didn't hear anyone claim they were financially hurt by what the Trump corporation did to them.

And, it will take over a year before the first person "damaged" by Trump enterprises will receive a dollar. Between now and then, lawyers will make a ton of money from processing the transactions.

a reply to: WeMustCare

It is so Morning Joe can say "Trump will be paying back all he swindled with the money the state gets back" which to the MSM idiots tells them there is a victim.

Surprised Joe did not say the sale will be the real bloodbath....

a reply to: matafuchs

Joe Biden's mental and physical deterioration continues. He will say less and less as the months pass. Yesterday, the media brought on a Biden spokesman to do the cheerleading.

a reply to: matafuchs

Mr. Trump Already has Liens on some of his Properties , and the NY Court can take them but the other Lenders would get their Money First if it were Sold by the NY Court because of the Lien and James would end up with what’s left . No one would buy a Property under those Conditions .

a reply to: Threadbarer
it seems to be the case.. it does seem impossible...but hey ...dont let the truth stand in your way

1. I am the President of the Northeast for the Lockton Companies ("Lockton"), the largest privately held insurance brokerage firm in the world.
...
3. Based upon my more than 50 years in the insurance industry as well as my actual experience over the past several weeks during which I have been in contact with some of the largest insurance carriers in the world in an effort to try and obtain a bond for Defendants, it is my opinion that obtaining an appeal bond for $464 million (the "Judgment Amount") is not possible under the circumstances presented.
....
10. Among other things, these efforts, which began before the judgment was issued and have continued through the date of my Affirmation, have included reaching out to virtually every major surety in the market and spending countless hours negotiating with one of the largest insurance companies in the world.
11. Despite scouring the market, we have been unsuccessful in our effort to obtain a bond for the Judgment Amount for Defendants for the simple reason that obtaining an appeal bond for $464 million is a practical impossibility under the circumstances presented.
12. As an initial matter, only a handful of sureties are approved by the U.S. Department of Treasury to underwrite bonds for a sum as high as the Judgment Amount. See fiscal.treasury.gov... Of those sureties, many have internal policies which significantly limit the amount of a bond they will write for a single obligation; indeed, it is my understanding that they will generally only issue a single bond up to $100 million.
13. Furthermore,none of these sureties will accept hard assets such as real estate as collateral. Instead, they will only accept cash or cash equivalents (such as marketable securities). Among the companies that will not accept real estate as collateral are AXA XL, Hartford, Nationwide, Sompo, Travelers, Berkshire Hathaway, CNA Casualty, Liberty Mutual and many others.
14. This is because sureties are generally (i) not in the business and therefore not equipped to manage, control, or dispose of real property; (ii) not willing to take the risk of having to sell off real estate quickly should a claim be made under a bond; and (iii)unable to offset the risk associated with underwriting a bond collateralized by real property because reinsurers are unwilling to insure such a bond.
15. While it is possible that Defendants could provide a surety with an irrevocable letter of credit ("ILOC") as collateral, that ILOC would still typically have to be fully backed by cash or cash equivalents.
16.Simply put, a bond of this size is rarely, if ever, seen. In the unusual circumstance that a bond of this size is issued, it is provided to the largest public companies in the world, not to individuals or privately held businesses.
17. In the surety world, a bond of $100 million is considered large; an appeal bond of $464 million is commercially unattainable for a privately owned company. Such would be the case even for a company with billions of dollars in real estate unless they have cash or cash equivalents approaching $1 billion so as to collateralize the bond and have sufficient capital to run the business and satisfy its other obligations. While it is my understanding that the Trump Organization is in a strong liquidity position, it does not have $1 billion in cash or cash equivalents.
18. As a result, for a company such as The Trump Organization, which has most of its assets invested in real estate, obtaining a bond for $464 million is a practical impossibility.

lets see what alan says .. skip to about 1 min..

lol no one has ever seem this happening to a person ... so there is no mechanism to cover it

sounds like if there isnt even a way to post the bond then there might be some issues with what the word "excessive " means

and omg .. if they ever do go to start selling off the properties and it appraises for hundreds of millions... wew doggy.. trump might end up owning NYC ..or at least a good chunk

this is gonna be so good ... whatever the outcome

fileing pg 45

a reply to: Another_Nut

During his deposition, Trump testified to having $4 billion cash on hand. What happened to all that cash? It seems to me that Trump is not as rich as he has been claiming.

No one would offer a 500 million dollar bond...to anyone on the planet. That is the point of the case.

No victim, let a judge decide value and without a criminal complaint find the defendant guilty. There is no reason to make the fine this large except to try to emabrass someone.

I mean, name the people on the planet right now with that liquid compared to the 8.1 billion people on earth.

Some of you are gloating just like with Guilani and again, I do not get it.

No one was hurt. Loans were paid. BLOODBATH!

originally posted by: Threadbarer
a reply to: Another_Nut

During his deposition, Trump testified to having $4 billion cash on hand. What happened to all that cash? It seems to me that Trump is not as rich as he has been claiming.

Citation needed

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: network dude



Mr. Trump has quite a Few Options to Cover the 500 Million Judgement in NY until his Appeal .

LOL, and we learned today that this guy was dead wrong!

originally posted by: matafuchs
No one was hurt. Loans were paid.

Perhaps you have not been paying attention. The big banks that loaned the fraudster money were hurt because the inflated property values allowed him to borrow at lower interest rates. This resulted in a very real financial loss to shareholders. But it reveal embarrassing incompetence by bank management that they would rather not talk about and instead say everything is fine and they were not victims of fraud.

Let's do some math. For every $1 billion borrowed, if he got a 1% lower interest rate then that is $10 million per year. This fraudulent practice went on for decades but he is only charged with about 10 years of civil fraud. Ten years times $10 million per year is $100 million. So he would only have to borrow $3.4 billion at 1% lower rate for damages to be $340 million. The higher figure of $480 million is based on interest that is still accruing. If his properties are worth about $4 billion then $3.4 billion implies an LTV of about 85%, probably a little high but certainly within the ballpark of what is normal for real estate investment.

If you lied when refinancing a $400,000 house and were sued for that fraud the scaled down fine would be $34,000. Frankly, it seems to me that Trump is getting off easy! Mortgage fraud typically carries penalties in the $250,000 range. If this were scaled up to Trump's borrowing level he'd be facing a civil fine of $2.5 billion.

My point is not that the judgement is fair or just. My only point is that the numbers roughly make sense.

We learned today that he is unable to post an appeal bond. I am not sure what this means but I think it means he cannot file an appeal and must pay the full amount immediately. The NYAG can begin attaching his assets worldwide starting next week. I bet they go for his plane right away just to humiliate him! I think there is very little he can do to fight asset seizure except after the fact in a very long process.

Yeah, I agree with all of you who say this is political. Of course it's political. But stuff like that happens all the time! When your MO is to rile up crowds of ignorant people with lies to stroke your ego at the expense of common decency and the rule of law, you really need to expect this kind of attack.

originally posted by: liberalskeptic

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: network dude



Mr. Trump has quite a Few Options to Cover the 500 Million Judgement in NY until his Appeal .

LOL, and we learned today that this guy was dead wrong!

Not quite . The 8th Amendment will intervene here and Mr. Trump will Only have to put up 100 Million then take this Case to the Appellate Court .

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit

originally posted by: liberalskeptic

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: network dude



Mr. Trump has quite a Few Options to Cover the 500 Million Judgement in NY until his Appeal .

LOL, and we learned today that this guy was dead wrong!

Not quite . The 8th Amendment will intervene here and Mr. Trump will Only have to put up 100 Million then take this Case to the Appellate Court .

And frankly, I am fine with that. I do not think he will win on appeal. If you look at his history in court it is very poor. His only success has been in delaying things. He is going to have to make a calculation because at this point every day of delay is costing him millions.

originally posted by: matafuchs
No victim, let a judge decide value and without a criminal complaint find the defendant guilty. There is no reason to make the fine this large except to try to emabrass someone.

I mean, name the people on the planet right now with that liquid compared to the 8.1 billion people on earth.

The judge decided the damages based on testimony of an expert witness who analyzed the business over the fraud period. Presumably the Trump Organization presented their own experts or declined to do so.

originally posted by: Threadbarer
a reply to: Another_Nut

During his deposition, Trump testified to having $4 billion cash on hand. What happened to all that cash? It seems to me that Trump is not as rich as he has been claiming.

Maybe perjury charges are incoming.

a reply to: liberalskeptic

Perhaps you have not been paying attention

but then you say

We learned today that he is unable to post an appeal bond. I am not sure what this means but I think it means he cannot file an appeal and must pay the full amount immediately

Please. There was no victim. He could say his property was worth 500 billion. A bank will only loan based on what they feel it is worth. I am not sure why this is so hard.

If it is lost interest than there should be a case against the bank for failing to provide larger loans and higher interest rates...right? Insane.

This entire thing is about embarrassment. Getting off easy. 500 million dollar fine for paying off a loan.

This is not about Trump, it is about a corrupt system.

a reply to: Threadbarer

That is how you look at it. You want him to put up 1/8th of his total liquid value to appeal? This is like when you wanted Guilani to be broke.

Sad. Just sad.500 million dollars...

2600 billionaires in the world. 0.000000325% of the world population.

How on any planet could a person think it fair for someone not convicted of an actual crime would have to post a 500 million dollar bond.

originally posted by: liberalskeptic

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit

originally posted by: liberalskeptic

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: network dude



Mr. Trump has quite a Few Options to Cover the 500 Million Judgement in NY until his Appeal .

LOL, and we learned today that this guy was dead wrong!

Not quite . The 8th Amendment will intervene here and Mr. Trump will Only have to put up 100 Million then take this Case to the Appellate Court .

And frankly, I am fine with that. I do not think he will win on appeal. If you look at his history in court it is very poor. His only success has been in delaying things. He is going to have to make a calculation because at this point every day of delay is costing him millions.

all these proceedings have purposely been done in left-wing areas with extreme left judges. as these things move up the ladder hopefully we'll get some fairer, less partisan judges, at which time the Democrats will scream about the fair judges being the partisan ones. the left is happy with this as their main interest seems to be to punish and harass Mr. Trump through the election.

a reply to: liberalskeptic

Really?

Stormy Daniels must pay nearly $122,000 of Donald Trump’s legal fees that were racked up in connection with the porn actor’s failed defamation lawsuit, an appeals court ruled Tuesday.

He has never been criminally convicted because he has not done anything wrong. Those who do not like him continue to bring civil cases.

a reply to: liberalskeptic

Perhaps you have not been paying attention. The big banks that loaned the fraudster money were hurt because the inflated property values allowed him to borrow at lower interest rates. This resulted in a very real financial loss to shareholders. But it reveal embarrassing incompetence by bank management that they would rather not talk about and instead say everything is fine and they were not victims of fraud.

So you’re telling us that after the banks did their own due diligence and made the deal for the loan which was paid back in full that somehow those banks are the victims here?

No.

The banks were under no duress to make those loans. That’s the only they would be a victim.

The only people this makes sense to are children who no nothing about business and people with TDS.