Israeli pilots refuse to fly assassination missions

www.theguardian.com...

Wednesday 24th September 2003

A group of Israeli airforce pilots declared yesterday that they would refuse to fly missions which could endanger civilians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

The 27 pilots sent a letter to the commander of Israel's airforce refusing to carry out duties, which include track and kill operations, in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. One of the pilots told Israeli television that the letter said: "We, veteran pilots and active pilots alike...are opposed to carrying out illegal and immoral attacks, of the type carried out by Israel in the territories.

We, who have been educated to love the state of Israel refuse to take part in airforce attacks in civilian population centres. We refuse to continue harming innocent civilians."

We have a diamond here!
Worth mentioning the day this article appeared: 23rd of September 2003 - almost 20 years ago.

In a few words what these pilots said was that they had serious issues with harming or even killing innocent civilians in their attempts to eliminate Hamas Group Members or some of their leaders.

They said they refuse to continue harming innocent civilians. Hence an admission by Israeli Pilots there is a lot of harm against civilian populations when bombing Gaza and the West Bank regardless of the aim of the given mission. Some examples are given in the article.

Twenty years later some places in Gaza have been flattened due to the air strikes by the Israeli Air Force and in my opinion this cannot go longer as the civilian victims will increase dramatically. With plenty of children and women among the dead.



A CBS article adds the following

www.cbsnews.com...

The scale of Israel's counterattack led a group of independent experts at the United Nations to warn – while condemning the "horrific" war crimes committed by Hamas – that "indiscriminate military attacks against the already exhausted Palestinian people of Gaza" amounted to "collective punishment."

"This is absolutely prohibited under international law and amounts to a war crime," they added.

Not only mass killings of innocent people is ethically unacceptable but it amounts to a war crime. You can't kill thousands of civilians with the hope of eliminating a much smaller amount from the Hamas Group.



As of today the 12th of October 2023

news.sky.com...

At least 500 children and 276 women are among the estimated 1,537 Palestinians who have died with more than 6,000 wounded, the Gaza health ministry has said.

1,537 Palestinians have been killed by the air strikes with at least 500 children and 276 women dead. Most other victims seem to be civilians.

The best possible scenario is for hostilities to end as soon as possible. Continuation of the air strikes will result in many more civilian deaths, and the risk of a generalised conflict in the area as described by US secretary of state Antony Blinken who argued restraint on Israel amid fears of regional war.

www.ft.com...

Now today we have terrorist groups around the globe using civilians to try and shield important locations and has also added targeting civilians to their repertoire.

So the question to ask is did their moral objection (ethically and morally the right stance in most cases) lead to the recent atrocities by Hamas, since the terrorists have seen the lengths israel goes to protect innocents at the expense of the IDF, so rather than risk greater losses attacking the police and military directly they went for the soft targets inflicting far more harm on the nations pysche than any other attack they have tried.

*shrugs* what little I have seen Hamas dont even rate animal designation, even lions will occasionally take pity on the young of another species.

When a lion realizes humans are just as tasty and easier to hunt, you dont feed the lion you kill it.

Unfortunately, this means a lot of innocent people will be hurt I cant condemn whats coming after the last 20+ years of war the US waged over 9/11.

originally posted by: Irishhaf
Now today we have terrorist groups around the globe using civilians to try and shield important locations and has also added targeting civilians to their repertoire.

So the question to ask is did their moral objection (ethically and morally the right stance in most cases) lead to the recent atrocities by Hamas, since the terrorists have seen the lengths israel goes to protect innocents at the expense of the IDF, so rather than risk greater losses attacking the police and military directly they went for the soft targets inflicting far more harm on the nations pysche than any other attack they have tried.

*shrugs* what little I have seen Hamas dont even rate animal designation, even lions will occasionally take pity on the young of another species.

When a lion realizes humans are just as tasty and easier to hunt, you dont feed the lion you kill it.

Unfortunately, this means a lot of innocent people will be hurt I cant condemn whats coming after the last 20+ years of war the US waged over 9/11.

It seems that the innocent pay the price mostly in these kinds of conflicts.

It's not accidental that the Secretary of State knows well what is about to happen and asked Israel to restrain itself on how it will go about this matter amid real fears over a generalised conflict.

a reply to: Muldar

t's not accidental that the Secretary of State knows well what is about to happen and asked Israel to restrain itself

Oh its going to horrific, no ifs and or buts about it.

But I am not a big enough hypocrite to say Israel should restrain itself considering what we did over ht elast 20+ years in iraq and afganistan.

originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: Muldar

t's not accidental that the Secretary of State knows well what is about to happen and asked Israel to restrain itself

Oh its going to horrific, no ifs and or buts about it.

But I am not a big enough hypocrite to say Israel should restrain itself considering what we did over ht elast 20+ years in iraq and afganistan.

Well...this one can lead to a regional conflict and can go even further.

No sane person wants a new world war to start out of this. There must be immediate negotiations to stop all hostilities.

a reply to: Muldar

This is not 2003. This is war...

If Hamas cared about civilians, they'd allow them to evacuate, rather than forcefully embedding their forces (paid for with international civilian-meant funds) in homes, hospitals, schools, mosques, and neighborhoods, preventing any civilian from leaving, forcing them to martyr themselves, while the high command of Hamas/ISIS sits in a fortified bunker!

Hamas could easily protect all the civilians in Gaza.... they dont want to. Their only mission is to kill the Jews. Just like the Nazis! Except the Nazis didnt use children as human shields!

a reply to: Muldar

People said a lot of things +20 years ago.

A lot of those things just simply are not the way things are now, for worse or better.

originally posted by: combatmaster
a reply to: Muldar

This is not 2003. This is war...

If Hamas cared about civilians, they'd allow them to evacuate, rather than forcefully embedding their forces in homes, hospitals, schools, mosques, and neighborhoods, preventing any civilian from leaving, forcing them to martyr themselves, while the high command of Hamas/ISIS sits in a fortified bunker!

Hamas could easily protect all the civilians in Gaza.... they dont want to. Their only mission is to kill the Jews. Just like the Nazis! Except the Nazis didnt use children as human shields!

You missed something by the way. The part where the Israeli Pilots refuse to bomb Gaza. This is war but that's not the first war between these two sides. They have been in war for several decades.

You missed also this part

CBS article from the OP

The scale of Israel's counterattack led a group of independent experts at the United Nations to warn – while condemning the "horrific" war crimes committed by Hamas – that "indiscriminate military attacks against the already exhausted Palestinian people of Gaza" amounted to "collective punishment."

"This is absolutely prohibited under international law and amounts to a war crime," they added.

originally posted by: VulcanWerks
a reply to: Muldar

People said a lot of things +20 years ago.

A lot of those things just simply are not the way things are now, for worse or better.

Situation has become much worse at the moment. But the article still stands the test of time.

in my opinion this cannot go longer as the civilian victims will increase dramatically. With plenty of children and women among the dead.

I’m just curious, when do you think our opinions ever mattered to the puppeteers?

And to go back in time again...

2002: Prime Minister of Israel Benjamin Netanyahu testifies before the U.S. Congress, and claims there is no question whatsoever about Saddam Hussein’s possessing weapons of mass destruction.

originally posted by: KKLOCO

in my opinion this cannot go longer as the civilian victims will increase dramatically. With plenty of children and women among the dead.

I’m just curious, when do you think our opinions ever mattered to the puppeteers?

I am not a puppet so my opinion doesn't matter to them. It matters though to me and to the rest of the non puppet population.

I don't understand leveling Palestine after the many reports of Hamas hiding in tunnels throughout the region. If they know this, why are they not blowing up the tunnels that are allowing Hamas to move about in relative safety?

originally posted by: Muldar

originally posted by: KKLOCO

in my opinion this cannot go longer as the civilian victims will increase dramatically. With plenty of children and women among the dead.

I’m just curious, when do you think our opinions ever mattered to the puppeteers?

I am not a puppet so my opinion doesn't matter to them. It matters though to me and to the rest of the non puppet population.

That’s a nice fluffy statement.

You have lived by their rules your entire life.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news…

originally posted by: nugget1
I don't understand leveling Palestine after the many reports of Hamas hiding in tunnels throughout the region. If they know this, why are they not blowing up the tunnels that are allowing Hamas to move about in relative safety?

Because this is an act of revenge that none of the members who support these bombings on this site want to admit. There could be some Hamas Militants hiding among the population but this is already known. When you bomb a heavily dense area with over 2.3 million people then you will kill thousands of people who are civilians.

originally posted by: KKLOCO

originally posted by: Muldar

originally posted by: KKLOCO

in my opinion this cannot go longer as the civilian victims will increase dramatically. With plenty of children and women among the dead.

I’m just curious, when do you think our opinions ever mattered to the puppeteers?

I am not a puppet so my opinion doesn't matter to them. It matters though to me and to the rest of the non puppet population.

That’s a nice fluffy statement.

You have lived by their rules your entire life.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news…

Not true.
Sorry your statement was wrong.

originally posted by: Muldar

originally posted by: KKLOCO

in my opinion this cannot go longer as the civilian victims will increase dramatically. With plenty of children and women among the dead.

I’m just curious, when do you think our opinions ever mattered to the puppeteers?

I am not a puppet so my opinion doesn't matter to them. It matters though to me and to the rest of the non puppet population.

Oh, but you do not understand puppets.

There are three elements to a puppet show. The puppeteer, the one in control of the puppet. The puppet, the one that is the center of attention and controlled by the puppeteer. And the audience, the many controlled by the puppet.

You have admitted to not being a puppetere and not being a puppet, therefore you are controlled by the puppet. You respond by laughing, clapping, crying, and other actions as the puppet preforms, totally unaware of the puppetere working the puppet in most cases.

I have several puppets for entertaining others at times. I do not try to control others but have done so accidently many times. I have been chased down and confronted for having a live animal where none is allowed. It is just a goat puppet most of the time that happens. People say I am good at it.

You come off as one that believes the puppet is alive. Easily manipulated into the show.

Your openion as being controlled by a puppet is nothing to the puppet masters or even the others in the audience. They will look at you funny if you laugh or clap at the wrong time so you do like the puppet wants you to do like a good little audience member.

I on the other hand I don't care to be a satyr with a pet capricorn walking amongst the crowd. Blending in and standing out at the same time without a care in the world about what others think of my appearance and actions. Just having fun while entertaining some.

You be you but understand you are only in the audience and have stated such.

a reply to: Muldar

I get that, but lets continue to use the US as an example over 3k dead on 9/11 and we invaded 2 countries killing a bunch of people.

if you take the same percentage of people killed in Israel and apply that to a population the size of america it would be north of 30k dead, what do you think the US would do if that happened?

I dont think anyone can talk israel out of carrying forward with vengence.

originally posted by: nugget1
I don't understand leveling Palestine after the many reports of Hamas hiding in tunnels throughout the region. If they know this, why are they not blowing up the tunnels that are allowing Hamas to move about in relative safety?

From what I understand, the tunnels are under Gaza, which is one of the most densely populated places on the planet.

The Hamas bases, explosive factories, and weapons caches are unmarked buildings, again, in one of the most densely populated places on the planet.

One could say that the IDF is using restraint when you consider Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Dresden, and other bombings in WW2.

Our modern free and capitalistic civilization is built on the rubble of similar destruction.

originally posted by: beyondknowledge2

originally posted by: Muldar

originally posted by: KKLOCO

in my opinion this cannot go longer as the civilian victims will increase dramatically. With plenty of children and women among the dead.

I’m just curious, when do you think our opinions ever mattered to the puppeteers?

I am not a puppet so my opinion doesn't matter to them. It matters though to me and to the rest of the non puppet population.

Oh, but you do not understand puppets.

There are three elements to a puppet show. The puppeteer, the one in control of the puppet. The puppet, the one that is the center of attention and controlled by the puppeteer. And the audience, the many controlled by the puppet.

You have admitted to not being a puppetere and not being a puppet, therefore you are controlled by the puppet. You respond by laughing, clapping, crying, and other actions as the puppet preforms, totally unaware of the puppetere working the puppet in most cases.

I have several puppets for entertaining others at times. I do not try to control others but have done so accidently many times. I have been chased down and confronted for having a live animal where none is allowed. It is just a goat puppet most of the time that happens. People say I am good at it.

You come off as one that believes the puppet is alive. Easily manipulated into the show.

Your openion as being controlled by a puppet is nothing to the puppet masters or even the others in the audience. They will look at you funny if you laugh or clap at the wrong time so you do like the puppet wants you to do like a good little audience member.

I on the other hand I don't care to be a satyr with a pet capricorn walking amongst the crowd. Blending in and standing out at the same time without a care in the world about what others think of my appearance and actions. Just having fun while entertaining some.

You be you but understand you are only in the audience and have stated such.

You have admitted to not being a puppetere and not being a puppet, therefore you are controlled by the puppet

The conclusion of yours is just priceless!

I am not even in the audience!

You just wrote an essay full of nonsense!