Can Men Play in Womens Sports? White House Dodges the Question saying it's 'Complicated'.

a reply to: Freeborn

I've stated that the funniest thing about all of this is that the lefts agenda has made me into a feminist and a defender of women's rights.

And I'm just a fat old boomer.

a reply to: Freeborn

You speak the truth.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Nothing wrong with being fat and old.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: quintessentone

It is generally accepted that the performance of elite female athletes is about 90% of elite male athletes.
That is a huge advantage.

Even if a transgender woman was to show only half of that it would be an almost unbeatable advantage in many, if not most, sports.

I fail to see how that would be beneficial for women in general and would only serve to deter many females taking up the sport of their choice....all to appease a very, very small minority.

Allowing transgender women to take part in most competitive sports defies all sense of logic, reasoning, fair play and equality.

Well it has to do with which sport we are talking about and whether unfair advantage exists or not, and that requires targeted studies.

Allowing transgender women to take part when all things are equal is non-discriminatory practice and these sports organizations don't want to go there; meaning they want to avoid discrimination.

a reply to: quintessentone

Science is my first go to for understanding, not bias and getting on the Christian 'looking only below the waist' bandwagon.

i have not said the first word about Christian values or even mentioned God.

another attempt at deflection by you for not being able to prove without a shadow of doubt that any thing you mentioned can be proven scientifically.

a reply to: DBCowboy

The thing is I don't know one single traditional left wing thinking person who agrees with transgender women competing equally in female sporting competitions - and I know a LOT of traditional left-wing people.

The people who support it remind of the new LGBTQ+ or whatever it is lesbian types who try to bully, intimidate and shame traditional lesbians because they have no intention or desire to date and have sex with transgender women.

Its a very, very small minority who are pushing and promoting the interests of an even smaller minority for some unfathomable reason.

I'd say its a load of bollocks but that may be an inappropriate phrase in this instance.

They should be told straight out and unequivocally to get to # and go play with and by themselves!

originally posted by: BernnieJGato
a reply to: quintessentone

Science is my first go to for understanding, not bias and getting on the Christian 'looking only below the waist' bandwagon.

i have not said the first word about Christian values or even mentioned God.

another attempt at deflection by you for not being able to prove without a shadow of doubt that any thing you mentioned can be proven scientifically.

What are you talking about. My stance here is based on what science is available now, that transwomen if transitioned during and after puberty retain their physical advantages. Others here are jumping to different topics re: transwomen. Make sure you understand the context of my replies as compared to the original post I was replying to. If if was a topic on anything other than transwomen in women's sports than bias exists.

a reply to: quintessentone

your the one who said this,

Science is my first go to for understanding, not bias and getting on the Christian 'looking only below the waist' bandwagon.

insinuating that i'm approaching this from a Christian point of view don't deny it. your not as slippery as you think you are.

you haven't made any argument that has stood up to any poster yet you keep your circular arguments going on this subject
or any subject you post in, then you use deflection and insinuation as a counters.

a reply to: Freeborn

Traditional left is a far cry from this lot.

Neo-Marxist is more apt, but they tend to get miffed when that is pointed out to them.

originally posted by: BernnieJGato
a reply to: quintessentone

your the one who said this,

Science is my first go to for understanding, not bias and getting on the Christian 'looking only below the waist' bandwagon.

insinuating that i'm approaching this from a Christian point of view don't deny it. your not as slippery as you think you are.

you haven't made any argument that has stood up to any poster yet you keep your circular arguments going on this subject
or any subject you post in, then you use deflection and insinuation as a counters.

Why do you think it applies to you, it applies to my approach for any research.

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: quintessentone

It is generally accepted that the performance of elite female athletes is about 90% of elite male athletes.
That is a huge advantage.

Even if a transgender woman was to show only half of that it would be an almost unbeatable advantage in many, if not most, sports.

I fail to see how that would be beneficial for women in general and would only serve to deter many females taking up the sport of their choice....all to appease a very, very small minority.

Allowing transgender women to take part in most competitive sports defies all sense of logic, reasoning, fair play and equality.

Well it has to do with which sport we are talking about and whether unfair advantage exists or not, and that requires targeted studies.

Allowing transgender women to take part when all things are equal is non-discriminatory practice and these sports organizations don't want to go there; meaning they want to avoid discrimination.

There are easier ways to avoid discrimination besides evaluating individual athletes to determine if their biological makeup puts them at an advantage or disadvantage to the other competitors.

Scientifically testing ever athlet to determine the best group for them to compete with is impossible given our current state of technology and analytics...

Even if we could accomplish such a feet; it would kill most of the fun of a sporting event. If you could test every individual to see how puberty has impacted them personally then you could start ranking the individuals as to their abilities before the game is even played; what's the fun in that?

The much easier way to accomplish the same goal is two A) have no segregation. B) choose simple segregation criteria such as "born a male" or "born a female".

Sure there will always be outliers that wont fit into either of these approaches ... and thats not fair ... but you can't run a society by mandating that everything must be fair to everyone all of the time. It's simply unsustainable.

originally posted by: quintessentone

And it is, again, we want to make sure that while we establish bound [guard] rails with this rule, that we also prevent discrimination as well against transgender kids. Again, a complicated issue,' she said.

They are being responsible by not jumping on the discriminatory and persecution Christian right bandwagon.

And, BTW, it is complicated.

The only complicated part is the delusional illness these transgender people have. Letting them live out their delusions is going to be a lot safer for the general public than letting them wallow in their misery.

originally posted by: dandandat2

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: quintessentone

It is generally accepted that the performance of elite female athletes is about 90% of elite male athletes.
That is a huge advantage.

Even if a transgender woman was to show only half of that it would be an almost unbeatable advantage in many, if not most, sports.

I fail to see how that would be beneficial for women in general and would only serve to deter many females taking up the sport of their choice....all to appease a very, very small minority.

Allowing transgender women to take part in most competitive sports defies all sense of logic, reasoning, fair play and equality.

Well it has to do with which sport we are talking about and whether unfair advantage exists or not, and that requires targeted studies.

Allowing transgender women to take part when all things are equal is non-discriminatory practice and these sports organizations don't want to go there; meaning they want to avoid discrimination.

There are easier ways to avoid discrimination besides evaluating individual athletes to determine if their biological makeup puts them at an advantage or disadvantage to the other competitors.

Scientifically testing ever athlet to determine the best group for them to compete with is impossible given our current state of technology and analytics...

Even if we could accomplish such a feet; it would kill most of the fun of a sporting event. If you could test every individual to see how puberty has impacted them personally then you could start ranking the individuals as to their abilities before the game is even played; what's the fun in that?

The much easier way to accomplish the same goal is two A) have no segregation. B) choose simple segregation criteria such as "born a male" or "born a female".

Sure there will always be outliers that wont fit into either of these approaches ... and thats not fair ... but you can't run a society by mandating that everything must be fair to everyone all of the time. It's simply unsustainable.

Complicated, it is.

a reply to: DBCowboy

I'd be interested to know what you think Marxist beliefs actually are?

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: DBCowboy

I'd be interested to know what you think Marxist beliefs actually are?

I'm actually putting a thread together on the subject, would be ecstatic if you joined in.

I didn't read all the replies (odd for me, but I will explain), so if someone already wrote this then...oh well.

I'm kind of surprised this topic got as many replies as it has in just over 10 hours. To me the issue seems simple (but I must be missing something). In my mind, it all boils down to one simple concept, a concept which is as old as human history.

If there is no honor in the game, then there are no winners. And, a winner with no honor, is nothing more than a person who is not truthful with themself. As a society, we should not embrace or even recognize games which are played without honor.

If a trophy is that important to you, then we will make you a trophy, but you have "won" nothing, because you have no honor. You have ventured nothing, and therefore you will gain nothing. Here, take your trophy.

originally posted by: quintessentone
Well it has to do with which sport we are talking about and whether unfair advantage exists or not, and that requires targeted studies.

Is there a sport where women and men are equal? Where a transwoman would have no advantage against a real woman? Horse-racing and some other equestrian events? Darts? Motorsports?

Even in chess, a sport that does not involve physical assertion, men have an unfair cognitive advantage over women. It's not that men are more intelligent than women per se., it's that our brains are different. In proper studies, chess players score highly in both logical mathematical, and spacial intelligence - the ability to identify logical and numerical patterns and manipulate abstract information. Men tend to score higher in these types of intelligence. Thus, they are better at chess, even if you just include these cognitive differences.

Basically, females and males (you know, the biological versions) are different physiologically and cognitively. It's biological fact.

Transwomen and men intruding into women's sports is unfair and deeply misogynistic.

Apparently cricket disagrees with the current trend towards banning transgender women.

Danielle McGahey: Transgender cricketer set to play in women's T20 international for Canada.
www.bbc.co.uk...

McGahey emigrated from Australia to Canada in February 2020, socially transitioned to a woman in November 2020 and started medically transitioning in May 2021.

Danielle has played mens club cricket since being a teenager.
Does Danielle have an unfair advantage?

WRN spokeswoman Jane Sullivan believes sporting categories should be kept separate on the basis of sex recorded at birth, and criticised the ICC for its eligibility criteria.

Sullivan told BBC Sport: "There are currently 17 peer-reviewed studies that show we cannot mitigate against male puberty when it comes to sporting performance.

"On average, men - however they identify - have bigger muscle mass, larger skeletons, bigger lung capacity, more fast-twitch muscles. It's been proven that even 14-year-old boys can be faster and stronger than world-class female athletes.

"Any cricket team that has an individual who has been through male puberty already has an unfair advantage over an all-female side.

"As an organisation, we don't want to see anyone banned from sport - it's for everyone. But women's sport must be fair - and safe - for the women taking part."

Having played club cricket myself and having both bowled and batted against women in nets and practice games I can assure you there is a huge gulf in the physical attributes between the two.

Something to consider; apparently 1 in 300 people in Canada 'identify' as Transgender.

originally posted by: Freeborn
Apparently cricket disagrees with the current trend towards banning transgender women.

Sigh. I used to play cricket. The International Cricket Council needs to update their rules before cricket is made a mockery of.

The "testosterone test" is outdated and does not account for the physiological differences men have accrued during and after puberty, something other sporting bodies now recognise.

Men, ruining women's sports.

a reply to: paraphi

womens chess is rife with sex pests, there is significant enough volumes of sexual harassment to put them off not just their game but the sport too, and when they report it often you'll see at least a few claim that females are too sexy for their sport even chess.