Russia Ukraine Update Thread - part 3

a reply to: sapien82

Where are you getting this idea that they risked their lives? If you're going to beat someone it makes sense do it in cover. And why do people beat other people in the first place? It's not always an act of reason, they might be angry or sadistic.

a reply to: Cutepants

well logical conclusion is that if he is injured he was in the front fighting , to rescue someone means putting your life at risk to go retrieve them from the front or from the Area of Operations.

where the enemy will likely still be engaging you , I mean its a war right so everyones risking their lives

as you say beating someone from anger or sadism is not an act of reason, so why does cover matter ?
if you arent thinking why think about cover either

a person wouldnt go rescue someone and risk their lives to bring them back to beat them , if you hated someone youd leave them to rot where they lay you certainly wouldnt put yourself in harms way just to go there to bring them back and beat them, sadists, etc still have self preservation in mind.
ok if you were that way inclined you'd wait until they are done fighting then go piss on his body to get your revenge.

and those dont look like shovels they look like axes.

Nevermind the fact you cant even see what they are hitting, for all we know they are chopping up wood to stay warm since its freezing.

there is zero evidence they are beating a man there NONE
the video clearly shows 4 men rescuing an injured man , then the second part just shows men swinging what look like axes
in a chopping motion. If they were chopping up a man with axes there would be blood on the axes , or shovels
you cant see anything of the sort

its just propaganda

a reply to: sapien82

well logical conclusion is that if he is injured he was in the front fighting , to rescue someone means putting your life at risk to go retrieve them from the front or from the Area of Operations.

Could you elaborate on your logic behind that conclusion? Soldiers don't just get injured in direct contact with the enemy. There's drones, artillery etc. that can inflict a lot of casualties deep in the rear. And what do you mean by area of operations? Normally that means a pretty large area with support units and HQ's, not just the line of contact.

And if they are beating him up they didn't really rescue him, did they? I'm saying if they found this guy out in the open and they want to talk to him and/or beat him up, then it's in their own interest to carry him in between building where they'll be more protect from shrapnel and drones. That's pure self-preservation.

where the enemy will likely still be engaging you , I mean its a war right so everyones risking their lives

Everyone is in danger but are you saying they went out of their way to protect his life?

as you say beating someone from anger or sadism is not an act of reason, so why does cover matter ?

I'm not saying they're insane or suicidal... People do reasonable and unreasonable things at the same time, all the time.

if you arent thinking why think about cover either

Because they don't want to die. They probably have some training and experience too, it becomes a habit.

Nevermind the fact you cant even see what they are hitting, for all we know they are chopping up wood to stay warm since its freezing.

Yeah, just saying. I think the left one probably is an axe, or possible a half-folded shovel of a certain type. I don't think the blood would be visible from such a long distance though, especially if they hit a small body-part with thick clothing.

a reply to: kungfunmaster

[snip]

the whole world knows that russia is ranked third in the world behind china 2nd and the U.S.1st.

the T14 is plagued with problems, is to expensive to build for a broke d--k russia to build, and they only have 20 prototypes built since 2015 as of July 2021 could have changed but i wouldn't expect them to have many more becuase they still are just a broke d__k country now than they were then. in fact i would dare say even more so becuase they are haveing to sell oil cheap and buy weapon from places like iran, korea and it is rumored they are buyiong tranport vechicle from china.

Cost has been a factor for cash-strapped Moscow, despite the fact that the per-unit cost of the T-14 is reported to be just under $4 million dollars. The initial planned acquisition to have as many as 2,300 T-14 tanks enter service by 2025 was scaled back to just 100 experimental vehicles, but Russia has fallen short of even reaching that goal. In fact, to date only around twenty pre-production units have been delivered to the Russian army for testing.
Russia’s New T-14 Armata Tank Is A Terror (It Just Has One Giant Problem)

a reply to: Cutepants

Im saying it makes zero sense to carry someone from one place to another just to beat them in cover
why bother if they were injured why not just leave them to die without moving them why risk your life just to ask them questions which you probably wont get an answer if they are injured or unconscious most people with battle injuries go into shock so gaining intel from them is problematic

the whole of Ukraine is effectively the AO

aye they can take indirect fire from artillery or drones , or even be blown up by IED or mines
doesnt always need to be the front line as you say
however retrieving him from where he lay still puts you in harms way as artillery ,drones , mines or enemy soldiers may be near by.
in doing so you are in harms way regardless.

Would you risk your life to grab an injured man just to question him / beat him up if he had just sent you to your death ? You wouldnt i dont think anyone would put their lives on the line especially when there are greater threats from the enemy.

Im saying it looks like they were rescuing him and then once they got into cover they went about sorting out some fire wood to keep him warm

If they didnt want to die then why risk retrieving him exactly.

as for the training , arent these guys poorly trained with bad equipment ? they are mercenaries
that means anyone willing to risk their lives for cash , given they are made up of prisoners and convicts
10K of them are soldiers 40K of them are convicts so I doubt they have great military expertise and training.

this whole war just like every other war is so rife with criminality , corruption and degeneracy on all sides
propaganda is everywhere and everything appears to be a contradiction .

Anyway Im not defending the actions of these people if they were beating him
I just think the evidence in the video doesnt even suggest it
I think they are just jumping on the fact the wagner PMC is full of criminals

a reply to: sapien82

Im saying it makes zero sense to carry someone from one place to another just to beat them in cover

Well you might not last very long on the battlefield then, lol

why bother if they were injured why not just leave them to die without moving them why risk your life just to ask them questions which you probably wont get an answer if they are injured or unconscious most people with battle injuries go into shock so gaining intel from them is problematic

How do you know how injured they were? How do you know he was unconscious? It's just a couple grainy clips. And what are you talking about intel, I never said anything about intel. I'm saying that guy may have wronged them or he was incompetent and they hate his guts. One of many possibilities.

the whole of Ukraine is effectively the AO

That's not consistent with how you used it earlier or with the common way it's used, but sure.

however retrieving him from where he lay still puts you in harms way as artillery ,drones , mines or enemy soldiers may be near by.
in doing so you are in harms way regardless.

Right, but retrieving him a short distance into is still safer than staying with him in the open.

Would you risk your life to grab an injured man just to question him / beat him up if he had just sent you to your death ?

Yeah, just like I might risk my life to go take a dump. It doesn't look like they're crawling into no-man's land to get him.

10K of them are soldiers 40K of them are convicts so I doubt they have great military expertise and training.

You don't need advanced training to learn about using cover. Probably the majority of convicts have been in military before they went to prison, assuming most of them are poor and not well-connected so they are less likely to have evaded conscription.

And I'm not saying they beat, just that it's possible. I don't know.

a reply to: Cutepants

Right i wouldnt last long on the battlefield , and Im the one not wanting to risk my neck by going out to retrieve an injured man from the battlefield to bring them some distance with 3 other men moving slowly carrying him.

4 men carrying someone?
id probably think they were unconscious as when your out your dead weight
but who knows as you say its hard to tell with such terrible video quality

You did say that they would be wanting to question him or beat him
questioning normally pertains to gathering information whether its " why did you send us to die you bastard" , "why did you send us into an enemy minefield you bastard" etc so yes Intel = information

the fact is we dont know how long it took them to get him into cover
so as you said they had to go get him and put their lives at risk , we just dont know
but it doesnt make sense to retrieve an already injured man just to then beat him to death for wronging them
let him suffer and bleed out where he lays.

If the tank crews that Russia have shown in videos are anything to go buy then these guys have very little military expertise , how many tanks have you seen drive onto mines recently , ive seen lots of dumb Russian manoeuvres
things that no trained military personnel would do ever!

I know your not saying they are beating them , but thats what the video is suggesting right !
but there is ZERO evidence they beat that man they were carrying.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

I'm so genuinely sorry Arbi not to include the link. I'll fetch it tomorrow think it was Guardian as that's the only broadsheet one can read for free these days in the UK

a reply to: sapien82

Right i wouldnt last long on the battlefield , and Im the one not wanting to risk my neck by going out to retrieve an injured man from the battlefield to bring them some distance with 3 other men moving slowly carrying him.

You just said it makes no sense to be in cover if you want to beat someone. Just because you're beating your officer doesn't mean the means gives you a break. You think moving someone is dangerous but standing around him?

4 men carrying someone?
id probably think they were unconscious as when your out your dead weight

You saying the number of men is relevant here? If it was only 2 men carrying then you'd think he was conscious?

"why did you send us into an enemy minefield you bastard" etc so yes Intel = information

Oh, fair enough. I guess I was thinking about secret intel or something but you're right.

we just dont know
but it doesnt make sense to retrieve an already injured man just to then beat him to death for wronging them
let him suffer and bleed out where he lays.

We have no idea how injured he is either, that's pure speculation.

a reply to: Cutepants

No Im saying that personally in a theatre of war, I wouldnt go and risk being killed just to beat some officer who wronged me by giving # orders.

I wouldnt risk my neck just to stick the boot into a dickhead officer
it makes zero sense to risk your life just so you can beat someone for revenge

I think the number of men is somewhat relevant , 4 men can carry a dead weight quicker than 2
so thats what makes me think they are rescuing him and thats what makes me think he is unconscious.

yeh all we can really do is speculate on the finer details
it still doesnt make sense to me that someone would put their life on the line to rescue someone
if they had wronged them in the first place only so they could beat them.

the reason i think he is badly injured is because 4 people are carrying him instead of 2
and they dont want to further risk injuring him if 2 people carry him and drop him
again just me speculating.

but we are beating a dead officer here

"We want Russia to come, say Moldova protesters"

Looks like eastern Europeans are getting a little tired of their countries being hijacked by the West, unemployment, high food and utility prices...........................

"Beneath Moldova's soaring parliament building, a parade of its most precarious file slowly past - bussed in by the thousand from across the country, each with their private tale of poverty and frustration.

"We're a laughing stock - the government is mocking us," Ala tells me.

Capped in a blue woollen hat, she thrusts her wide pale face close to mine, and says: "There are people with four or five children who literally have nothing to eat."

Energy bills here now consume more than 70% of household income, according to Moldova's president.

Ala tells me they swallow half of her pension.

"When we elected this government, they promised to raise salaries and pensions, but so far we haven't seen a penny," she says." www.bbc.co.uk...

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Sunday's protests, organised by Moldova's pro-Russian Sor party, are being closely watched by governments across Europe and beyond. Most protesters travelled to the capital city Chisinau by bus, with their costs reportedly covered by the Sor party.

Sor party took less than 6% of vote in last election.

Are these protests representative of what most moldova thinks?

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Sunday's protests, organised by Moldova's pro-Russian Sor party, are being closely watched by governments across Europe and beyond. Most protesters travelled to the capital city Chisinau by bus, with their costs reportedly covered by the Sor party.

Sor party took less than 6% of vote in last election.

Are these protests representative of what most moldova thinks?

Who knows? Nothing coming from the MSM resembles reality over there. Lies total lies from all angles

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
"We want Russia to come, say Moldova protesters"

Would these be the pro-Russian Moldovans who also sit in the Russian supported breakaway Transnistria?

Early in the Ukrainian invasion, one of the Russian objectives was to join up with Transnistria. That objective, like so many others, has come to nought. In Transnistria, there has been increased intolerance of Moldovans, including good old Russian inspired ethnic cleansing to make the place pure and solely Russian.

Russia picking on Moldova to further their separatist agenda. A pity that the BBC did not bother to mention Transnistria specifically, and the active role Russia is playing to destabilise Moldova.

a reply to: paraphi

Well, Paraphi you make some good points. I have no idea if this includes Transdenissters yet there is a growing element within eastern European society that is tiring of being used for gun fodder by a western installed Kiev government and mad Vlad's imperial dreams. Add to that all the increases in the cost of living and whatever one might label the natives in that region, as human beings they are becoming increasingly tired of the current nonsense cast on them by outside influences

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

"We want Russia to come, say Moldova protesters"

Looks like eastern Europeans are getting a little tired of their countries being hijacked by the West, unemployment, high food and utility prices.

Or it's just evidence of Russia doing what they did in Eastern Ukraine , page one of the dictators handbook , sew division.

That was the focus of an exclusive interview with Kosovo's President Vjosa Osmani at the Munich Security Conference.

"What he's trying to do is to divert the attention of the West away from Ukraine," she told Sky News.

"The way he would be able to do that is by creating other conflicts in Europe, whether we're talking about Moldova, Georgia or the Western Balkans."
news.sky.com... 9

originally posted by: sapien82
but we are beating a dead officer here

Haha, yeah good one

a reply to: Kenzo

Just like the nazis did back then i lost count how many times Russianss
Seem to copy from nazi playbook....

They were bosom buddies, brothers in arms, Soviets were totally cool with Nazi's, and what they were doing..till Hitler back stabbed. I just laugh at the..but nazis !! what disingenuous bs!