Ghoulish Battle Over Possible Political Motivation of July 4 Shooter Begins

a reply to: shooterbrody

I'm well aware of everyone's need to use this shooting and many others for political gain.

That's literally the point of this thread.

a reply to: projectvxn

Dude is a pos
The governor of said state is also a pos, something about 2A and muskets.

Those pointing out such are the problem?

Dp

a reply to: projectvxn

Wait until the false flaggers turn up , pictures will be posted and claims will be made.

To be fair projectvxn while I agree with your post ATS has been this way for quite a while now , frustrating is not a strong enough word for the political entrenchment that exists , perhaps ignorance is at the root of the ghoulish political madness.

I find it very disrespectful and callous to jump straight toward political talking points after any tragedy.

No one, not a single one of us, would want our death or the death of a loved one to be turned into some left/right debate.

You make some good points on this thread.

Mental illness is an undeniable common thread with the vast majority of these mass shootings.

A friend and I were discussing the last round of shootings, and he threw out a stat that I'd heard/read before, but hearing him say it seemed to emphasize it in a way that resonated strongly:

The U.S. represents 5% of the worlds population, but we consume 50% of the worlds pharmaceutical products.

o_O

Of that 50%, a large chunk are anti-depressants/"mood" drugs, e.g. Selective Seratonin Reuptake Inhibitors. The side effects of these drugs include suicidal ideation and psychosis.

To drive home the point on mental illness being the main contributor here, another less known point of trivia: the number of firearms, PER CAPITA, in the U.S. is smaller now than it was in the 1980s. That being the case, why were there not nearly so many mass shootings then compared to now, if access to firearms was actually less restricted back then, there were much less laws around purchasing/possessing firearms, and there were no "code red" drills in schools, no protocols in limiting casualties from these events, i.e. much more soft targets?

Were we, as a nation, as "medicated" in the 1980s as compared to now?

The other unifying factor in these shootings is age. There is a concentration of younger males among the group, often times of school age or just outside school age (which helps explain their affinity for performing the acts at schools). While quite a bit of questions are posed about societal influences of these shooters, e.g. video games, TV, music much, less attention is given to the trends in pharmaceutical use mentioned above, and there is another element to this: for decades now. youth in the U.S. have been experiencing a rapid increase in the frequency of diagnosis of a disorder among the autism spectruem



If you're a parent (which a growing numbers of our political class, of BOTH parties, are NOT, by the way) or a medical professional that's followed this trend, you've probably heard about this, as it's a rather puzzling phenomenon with a bit of controversy. Researchers and parents have been seeking various different explanations for this rise in autism, but there are no universally agreed factors. Many parents blame the prevalence of vaccines for young children, but this is a contentious idea without the backing of most mainstream medical professionals/doctors.

In any event, whatever triggers this in young people today, the pathology is there, in large numbers, and it is another common characteristic of these shooters: young people suffering from some form of autism. For example, Adam Lanza suffered from Asperger's Syndrome.

Outside of the causation factors behind the spike in autism in youths, none of this information is really in dispute, or that hard to research or learn about. The fact is, we (the U.S.) is in the midst of a mental health crisis, with a strong prevalence of mental illness in children and young adults, which happens to match a large cross section of these shooters.

The $64k question: if this information helps explain the elevated number of mass shootings, WHY have there been no large scale initiatives, research panels, high visibility government projects to investigate this mental health epidemic and consider ways to intervene and reduce this trend?

To say it differently, why is the focus ALWAYS, INVARIABLY on the firearms used in this tragedies (of which it is actually less common, statistically, for a youth to find firearms in their parents' home than 50 years ago, with more restrictions on purchase/acquisition in the marketplace), and of smaller consideration, the mental state of the shooter, and the huge red flag of growing mental illness among our young people? I have thoughts on this, as I'm sure others do, but as to the topic of this thread, we can save that for another discussion. For now, let's suffice to say, there are some compelling ideas as to the WHY/EXPLANATIONS of these shootings, but the media and our government (which is comprised of BOTH main political parties) seem to be fixated on other, peripheral matters.

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: shooterbrody

I'm well aware of everyone's need to use this shooting and many others for political gain.

That's literally the point of this thread.

Didn't take long for even this thread to turn political and finger pointing.

a reply to: olaru12

That's the name of the game around here. Pointing fingers.

That's literally 95% of the content here, not even joking.

a reply to: projectvxn

We'll see which attorney he accepts "coaching" from. Crimo might take the highest bidder, like Cassidy Hutchinson reportedly did.

originally posted by: olaru12
Didn't take long for even this thread to turn political and finger pointing.

Some people are incapable of processing nuance, they live with an overly simplistic world view that doesn't permit them to analyze things critically, including their own behavior.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

There's little point in self-reflection when there's always a reason to point your finger at someone else. Some people are so dialed into the news cycle that they forget to check their own feelings and how drastically they've changed over the past few years.

People should REALLY do some research into "agitprop" and "Kabuki" and how political theater has completely taken over American politics these days. People are oblivious to the fact that they're constantly being backed into a corner by the news media and the politicians.

Cornered animals only have one option in the end, to ATTACK! Both sides are being backed into a corner simultaneously. They're leading people to a very dark place, a place where neither side's best interests are on the table!

Like I said in the other thread, I have a feeling we'll find out this kid was a 4-chan edgelord. Everything about his personality just seems like a cry for attention. I'm guessing his politics don't go much beyond, "What's the most shocking thing I can post to get a reaction?"

a reply to: Xcalibur254

Like I said in the other thread, I have a feeling we'll find out this kid was a 4-chan edgelord.

"Power user" apparently.

a reply to: SleeperHasAwakened

This is a fantastic summary of my thoughts on the matter.

Another thing that's different from the 80's is the internet. Take people teetering on the brink and combine that with the combustible rhetoric online, and it's total powder keg.

The fact that there are fewer firearms per capita now than in the 80's is objective data that should not be ignored.

a reply to: TomLawless

And social media which gives every asshole a "platform"
The more outrageous the better.

a reply to: TomLawless

Great point. The Internet and hyper-connectivity are double-edged swords, it would seem.

a reply to: zosimov

Another terrific point.

originally posted by: projectvxn

Many have quite a bit of shame to deal with as we start to unravel the mental state of this very troubled young man. I expect this kind of stuff on Twitter and Reddit, but ATS is supposed to deny ignorance. People who I spar with, but typically respect dove right into the mud head first hoping to score a goal against team blue or team red.

It's a sad reflection of some of the board culture, I'm afraid -- and you are right that the "blame the other team" starts up here in the wake of any national event. You're also correct that a lot of the statements don't reflect either side of the issue but rather a caricature of what's 'liberal' and what's 'conservative.'

And few actually read boards/news sources that feature their opponents' views.

Part of the response is, I think, the temptation to be relevant; to be an armchair detective and figure out things and make sense of the horrible situation. I confess that I read articles and scholarly papers about people who do such acts. One of them pointed out that in most cases, suicide/suicide-by-cop is part of the intended goal... and I think I agree with it.



A shame, as you concluded, for a site that once was known for its excellent research.

originally posted by: TomLawless
a reply to: SleeperHasAwakened

This is a fantastic summary of my thoughts on the matter.

Another thing that's different from the 80's is the internet. Take people teetering on the brink and combine that with the combustible rhetoric online, and it's total powder keg.

The fact that there are fewer firearms per capita now than in the 80's is objective data that should not be ignored.

No offense intended here, but you might want to take a second look at the "objective data" (the 1980 statistic is 67 million guns owned. Gun ownership has declined but the overall number of guns has increased.

a reply to: projectvxn

Sadly very true.....and it seems many just can't get their heads around what you wrote.

My most sincere condolences to all affected by this tragic event.

I appreciated your post in the other thread, and agree.

The one to blame, was the guy who pulled the trigger.