Does Russia now control 30 percent of Ukraine?

a reply to: JinMI


What doesn't?


Are there still 100,000 russian troops in the areas they once held?


Or are you just pretending they never existed?

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

They are in the Donbass all the way south through Mariupol and to Crimea.

Exactly as I predicted their goal would be months ago.

originally posted by: 1947boomer
a reply to: putnam6

Russia may have military forces in 30% of Ukraine but that does not mean that they "control" that much real estate. Ukraine also has military forces in much of those same areas but that does not mean that Ukraine "controls" them either. That real estate is contested, meaning that the ultimate outcome of who ends up controlling what is still uncertain.

In my opinion, the probability of Ukraine eventually retaking much of the territory that is currently contested is fairly high, as long as they have weapons to fight with. The reason is that invaders always need much more military capability than defenders to successfully defeat and then occupy the territory of another country, especially if the defenders are highly motivated. Ukrainians are highly motivated now while Russian troops are realizing they are on the wrong side of history and have been lied to by their leaders. Right now, Russia is burning through men and materiel at an unsustainable rate. Once their 100,000 or so troops are gone, there will still be 41 million Ukrainians left.

I see the MSM has brain washed you well.

These areas that are under control by Russia are areas of Ukraine that the vast majority of the Ukrainian population have been wanting to separate from Ukraine for years now. These areas of Ukraine are areas that the Ukrainian government has sent the armed forces and far right militias to fight and kill the Ukrainian population since 2014. Ukraine will not be taking these areas back again.

The people in these areas are majority ethnic Russian Ukrainians, they aren't appreciated or wanted by the Western Ukrainians. They have been abused and killed by their own Ukrainian government since 2014. The pro Kiev Ukrainians, the few that there were in this area are long gone and have moved to the west or Poland.

a reply to: JinMI


Congrats to your crystal ball, it's obviously far superior to putin's.


Still doesn't change the fact that russia recently occupied almost 3 times the Ukrainian territory, or that Ukrainian territory does not belong to russia or whatever fake 'countries' it 'creates' as justification.

It belongs to Ukraine.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: putnam6
So you believe Russia is just gonna eventually give up and go home?

So all we got to do is keep feeding Ukraine tens of billions in aid?

FWIW last time this strategy was used it took 10 years for them to leave and our shipping of aid and weapons helped create Osama Bin Laden.

They've lost as many men and nearly as much materiel as they did in those 10 years and are being isolated from the global community. This is also against an adversary that looks like them, speaks like them and were told would welcome them openly.

The ones that welcomed the Russian forces openly were in the east, in the Donbas, the Russian forces knew this. The Russian forces also knew the Ukrainians in the west would not welcome them openly, don't be so naive to think that "Russia thought the entire country would welcome them openly". These people live there, they know what parts of Ukraine are pro Russian and what parts aren't. They know what parts of Ukraine were getting attacked by the Ukrainian government and needed their help.

originally posted by: MisguidedAngel

originally posted by: 1947boomer
a reply to: putnam6

Russia may have military forces in 30% of Ukraine but that does not mean that they "control" that much real estate. Ukraine also has military forces in much of those same areas but that does not mean that Ukraine "controls" them either. That real estate is contested, meaning that the ultimate outcome of who ends up controlling what is still uncertain.

In my opinion, the probability of Ukraine eventually retaking much of the territory that is currently contested is fairly high, as long as they have weapons to fight with. The reason is that invaders always need much more military capability than defenders to successfully defeat and then occupy the territory of another country, especially if the defenders are highly motivated. Ukrainians are highly motivated now while Russian troops are realizing they are on the wrong side of history and have been lied to by their leaders. Right now, Russia is burning through men and materiel at an unsustainable rate. Once their 100,000 or so troops are gone, there will still be 41 million Ukrainians left.

I see the MSM has brain washed you well.

These areas that are under control by Russia are areas of Ukraine that the vast majority of the Ukrainian population have been wanting to separate from Ukraine for years now. These areas of Ukraine are areas that the Ukrainian government has sent the armed forces and far right militias to fight and kill the Ukrainian population since 2014. Ukraine will not be taking these areas back again.

The people in these areas are majority ethnic Russian Ukrainians, they aren't appreciated or wanted by the Western Ukrainians. They have been abused and killed by their own Ukrainian government since 2014. The pro Kiev Ukrainians, the few that there were in this area are long gone and have moved to the west or Poland.

Name one thing that indicates that Ukraine was 'trying to get rid of those regions'.

A complete falsehood, easily disproved by the fact that Ukraine has spent the last 8 years trying to remove the russian invaders from Ukrainian territory.

originally posted by: PatriotGames4u
a reply to: Zanti Misfit


Did the Ukrainian population overwhelmingly vote for him?

THE USA overwhelmingly vote for Joe Biden too, what's your point?

Why should anyone believe that this election of Zelenskyys wasnt tampered with like prior elections were accused of?

Zelenskyy also has promised to quit attacking the Ukrainians in the east, a promise he instantly broke and lied about.

This is why Zelenskyy has to be removed you can't have a government in place that attacks your own citizens

a reply to: MisguidedAngel


That Zelinsky was overwhelmingly elected by, and is still overwhelmingly supported by the Ukrainian population.

Regardless of how many times russia and it's supporters absurdly claim otherwise.

originally posted by: PatriotGames4u

originally posted by: MisguidedAngel

originally posted by: 1947boomer
a reply to: putnam6

Russia may have military forces in 30% of Ukraine but that does not mean that they "control" that much real estate. Ukraine also has military forces in much of those same areas but that does not mean that Ukraine "controls" them either. That real estate is contested, meaning that the ultimate outcome of who ends up controlling what is still uncertain.

In my opinion, the probability of Ukraine eventually retaking much of the territory that is currently contested is fairly high, as long as they have weapons to fight with. The reason is that invaders always need much more military capability than defenders to successfully defeat and then occupy the territory of another country, especially if the defenders are highly motivated. Ukrainians are highly motivated now while Russian troops are realizing they are on the wrong side of history and have been lied to by their leaders. Right now, Russia is burning through men and materiel at an unsustainable rate. Once their 100,000 or so troops are gone, there will still be 41 million Ukrainians left.

I see the MSM has brain washed you well.

These areas that are under control by Russia are areas of Ukraine that the vast majority of the Ukrainian population have been wanting to separate from Ukraine for years now. These areas of Ukraine are areas that the Ukrainian government has sent the armed forces and far right militias to fight and kill the Ukrainian population since 2014. Ukraine will not be taking these areas back again.

The people in these areas are majority ethnic Russian Ukrainians, they aren't appreciated or wanted by the Western Ukrainians. They have been abused and killed by their own Ukrainian government since 2014. The pro Kiev Ukrainians, the few that there were in this area are long gone and have moved to the west or Poland.

Name one thing that indicates that Ukraine was 'trying to get rid of those regions'.

A complete falsehood, easily disproved by the fact that Ukraine has spent the last 8 years trying to remove the russian invaders from Ukrainian territory.

Where did I say anything about "Ukraine trying to get rid of those regions?"

"Russian invaders" hahaha good one, you mean the Ukrainian citizens of the east who had to take up arms against their own government, after their own government and far right militias supported by Kiev, waged war against the peaceful people in these areas for the only reason being they weren't considered "pure" Ukrainians

originally posted by: PatriotGames4u
a reply to: MisguidedAngel


That Zelinsky was overwhelmingly elected by, and is still overwhelmingly supported by the Ukrainian population.

Regardless of how many times russia and it's supporters absurdly claim otherwise.

Only supported by the Western Ukrainians.

Anyone in the east that voted for him did so for the fact that he said he would stop attacking the peaceful ethnic Russian Ukrainian areas in the east, a promise that he lied about and still allowed because he was worried the far right militias would stage another coup if he showed support for his citizens in the East.

a reply to: MisguidedAngel


I mean the russian separatists fighting to steal territory for russia.

russian invaders.

a reply to: MisguidedAngel


A few weeks ago russia was claiming that he was elected because of the nazis in the East.


Either way, it's none of russia's business, Ukrainians overwhelmingly elected and support Zelinsky while russia invaded Ukraine to steal it's land and resources.

originally posted by: PatriotGames4u
a reply to: MisguidedAngel


I mean the russian separatists fighting to steal territory for russia.

russian invaders.

No, they are Ukrainian citizens and you know that.

I think their control is about at the same level the US had in Vietnam, yes we had troops there didnt mean it was safe and secure.

originally posted by: PatriotGames4u
a reply to: MisguidedAngel


A few weeks ago russia was claiming that he was elected because of the nazis in the East.


Either way, it's none of russia's business, Ukrainians overwhelmingly elected and support Zelinsky while russia invaded Ukraine to steal it's land and resources.

Nah, Russia invaded because of the genocide in the Donbas. So many videos showing Ukrainian government aggression against its own citizens in the east. Its not even a debate its part of recorded history, even the Western media at the time was critical of Ukrainian government attacking their own people.

When BLM took over a section of Seattle in the summer of 2020, they set up road blocks and had armed patrols of their borders. They wouldn't allow the Police or any government agencies into their autonomous zone. Even though BLM was controlling this section of Seattle there was still thousands of normal everyday people that lived here. Would it have been OK if the US Government started shooting rockets and doing bombing runs in this area of Seattle? Would it have been OK for the US government to send the army into this zone and start shooting the citizens whether they were armed or not? Because this is EXACTLY what the Ukrainian government did.

The big difference though was the people in the Donbas weren't asking for anything special, they just wanted to be able to live the same way they had been for hundreds of years

originally posted by: Irishhaf
I think their control is about at the same level the US had in Vietnam, yes we had troops there didnt mean it was safe and secure.

The big difference though is that the people in Eastern Ukraine, the Ukrainian citizens in the Donbas, have been fighting the Ukrainian government for 8 years. These areas of Ukraine are united with Russia because of the brutal Ukrainian governments aggression against these Ukrainian citizens because they aren't "pure" Ukrainians and they dared to stand up for their culture and language that they have been using in these areas for generations, something that the Ukrainian nationlists from the west and the Ukrainian government did not like.

In Vietnam the US was always just seen as invaders, they didn't belong there, they weren't there because their cousins and uncles and their culture was under attack. Russia on the other hand was seen as saviors in this area of Donbas, they were all ethnically the same, they were their to help their ethnic people, to protect their culture.

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

Nor does all your muttering change the fact that russia holds Ukranian territory, nor would they be able to continue without cash, aid and weapons.

a reply to: JinMI


Did anyone deny that russia invaded Ukraine to steal land and resources?

That's absurd.

a reply to: MisguidedAngel


Genocide?

Are we jumping off the crazy cliff now?




Russia has already admitted that it intends to steal as much Ukrainian territory as it can, time to stop spreading the earlier russian propaganda.

a reply to: MisguidedAngel


The russian separatists have been fighting the Ukrainian government, to steal Ukrainian territory for russia.