Diary of an Unborn Child

a reply to: Lazarus Short

The Bible defines life as "breath" in several places including the story of Adam's creation.

"when God breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Genesis 2:7

Seems to me "personhood" begins at birth." as opposed to the womb according to said book.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Lazarus Short

The Bible defines life as "breath" in several places including the story of Adam's creation.

"when God breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Genesis 2:7

Seems to me "personhood" begins at birth." as opposed to the womb according to said book.

That's correct in a very technical way. A poster here on ATS was recounting the birth of one of his children - he saw something as if out of the corner of his eye (if I remember it right) - he mentioned it to the doctor, who said, "Saw that, did you?" There's that, but why try to justify killing what God intends for personhood?

a reply to: Lazarus Short

Some proof might be nice as to what God intends Lazarus Short of the actual tangible sorts.

As opposed to the ramblings of Man with all his fears and fallibility at play in an attempt to win our hearts and minds never mind retard free thought and expression in the process.

I'm on the fence by the way, but our notion of what amounts to organized religious practice in all its many forms and guise leaves a lot to be desired.

a reply to: andy06shake

Here's a few, easy to find on the www:

He makes the barren woman abide in the house
As a joyful mother of children.
Praise the Lord!
Psalm 127:3

Behold, children are a gift of the Lord,
The fruit of the womb is a reward.
Genesis 33:5

He lifted his eyes and saw the women and the children, and said, “Who are these with you?” So he said, “The children whom God has graciously given your servant.”
Genesis 48:9

Joseph said to his father, “They are my sons, whom God has given me here.” So he said, “Bring them to me, please, that I may bless them.”
Joshua 24:3

Then I took your father Abraham from beyond the River, and led him through all the land of Canaan, and multiplied his descendants and gave him Isaac.
Proverbs 17:6

a reply to: Lazarus Short

Fair play, but far as i can establish, there are no comments pertaining specifically to abortion in any of the 600 laws or commandments Moses decreed.

You would imagine if abortion was something God prohibited or considered a mortal sin he would have said more about it.

The problem with religious sorts is you can look at those books and find verses contained within to suit or champion just about any sort of agenda, including but not limited to the murder of our fellow Man, and in the name of God no less.

No proof of that invisible man, to that I think about that movie line, where her father is dead and he asks her: "Did you love your father?" to which she replies, "yes, very much", to which he says, "Prove it". As far as abortion goes, well, it doesn't matter who believes in what, sooner or later we all have to answer for our actions in life good and bad, one way or the other.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Lazarus Short

Fair play, but far as i can establish, there are no comments pertaining specifically to abortion in any of the 600 laws or commandments Moses decreed.

You would imagine if abortion was something God prohibited or considered a mortal sin he would have said more about it.

The problem with religious sorts is you can look at those books and find verses contained within to suit or champion just about any sort of agenda, including but not limited to the murder of our fellow Man, and in the name of God no less.

It is a matter of how deep your understanding is. Surface: kill, and let God sort them out. Deep: do not kill. Deeper: promote life as your Heavenly Father does.

originally posted by: Lazarus Short

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Lazarus Short

The Christian Bible don't say much if anything at all pertaining to abortion.

"Thou shalt not kill" covers it.

Unless the person killed had "ungodly sex". Adulterers, fornicators, unmarried pregnant women were stoned to death, sometimes burned at the stake if they happened to be daughters of Levi.

Or, if married or pregnant women happened to be so unfortunate as to live in a village that "God" told his people to invade and take, it was okay to kill them too.

a reply to: Lazarus Short

Somehow i imagine it's more like how deep the religious rabbit hole goes as opposed to any sort of actual ""understanding"".

originally posted by: Sookiechacha

originally posted by: Lazarus Short

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Lazarus Short

The Christian Bible don't say much if anything at all pertaining to abortion.

"Thou shalt not kill" covers it.

Unless the person killed had "ungodly sex". Adulterers, fornicators, unmarried pregnant women were stoned to death, sometimes burned at the stake if they happened to be daughters of Levi.

Or, if married or pregnant women happened to be so unfortunate as to live in a village that "God" told his people to invade and take, it was okay to kill them too.

Not only that; it's god's own decision (according to the bible) when someone has to die; so a bit weak to accuse the people who have an abortion of something which is no more the god's will....

In 1787 the U.S. senate stated:
“the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.”

So why are we debating laws using the Bible as a reference? The law should be a law without bringing God into the debate. What a person's own religious belief is should dictate their own behavior in regard to what they do.

Instead we have Reverends and stuff actually helping to write the proposed bills such as the total ban in Louisiana.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Lazarus Short

Somehow i imagine it's more like how deep the religious rabbit hole goes as opposed to any sort of actual ""understanding"".

Correct again - religion is truly a rabbit hole, but true understanding comes from God, Who does not accuse...He enlightens the seeker above the religious rabble, who may not even inherit in the Kingdom.

a reply to: Hecate666

That I understand, I was there 4 years ago. I will pray for you, but your return to nature won't be a pleasant one. I was only here to warn, not pass judgment.

a reply to: Lazarus Short

Correct again - religion is truly a rabbit hole, but true understanding comes from God,

Dont say much, accusations or otherwise Lazarus Short.

Who does not accuse...He enlightens the seeker above the religious rabble, who may not even inherit in the Kingdom.

Smashing, but if you follow organised religious practice, are you not part of the rabble?

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Lazarus Short

Correct again - religion is truly a rabbit hole, but true understanding comes from God,

Dont say much, accusations or otherwise Lazarus Short.

Who does not accuse...He enlightens the seeker above the religious rabble, who may not even inherit in the Kingdom.

Smashing, but if you follow organised religious practice, are you not part of the rabble?

Are you thinking that I do "follow organised religious practice"? Well, I don't. I have no use for hell and damnation, the devil, images and all the other things that my pagan daughter points out (with glee!) to show that Christianity has "pagan DNA." Seems she's right. I don't say I'm a lion in a den of Daniels just to be cute.

a reply to: Lazarus Short

Sound mate.

I'm not trying to label you as anything.

If im honest i did assume you to be religious down to your handle containing the word "Lazarus".

Sorry to have offended, my mistake, i do apologise.

Im christened a protestant myself, so im allowed to chuck bricks at religious greenhouses.

Just playing devils advocate really where organised religious practice is concerned.

originally posted by: Hecate666
They died often horrible painful deaths.

Some of the women's rights publications in the 60's/70's showed black and white photos of women who had died from botched abortions. They were brutal. Women face down but fetal position in a pools of blood. These were moms, sisters, daughters, wives, girlfriends and loved by someone, somewhere. It's a loss that didn't have to happen. The mental anguish that drove them to it and the horror they would have died in was the reason abortion was legalized. It will happen again if abortion is not available.

People have been saying moronic things on twitter like, canada will open it's doors to american women who need abortions, with little awareness that only a woman of means could get here, babysitter for any previous children, already have a passport, vaccines, etc. never mind the fact we have an absolutely massive shortage of doctors. These would be the very same women who could probably afford to keep her child, access resources.

A desperate person will take desperate measures so I hope if abortion gets banned there is going to be lots of psychological help for women trapped in a pregnancy, financial help to get them stable living arrangements, ongoing resources for the child. But not likely.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Lazarus Short

Sound mate.

I'm not trying to label you as anything.

If im honest i did assume you to be religious down to your handle containing the word "Lazarus".

Sorry to have offended, my mistake, i do apologise.

Im christened a protestant myself, so im allowed to chuck bricks at religious greenhouses.

Just playing devils advocate really where organised religious practice is concerned.

No harm, no foul. I was raised a Southern Baptist, but now remain unaffiliated. I chuck BOULDERS at said religious greenhouses, even taking on the hoary doctrine of "hell." I wrote a book titled, "Hell is a 404."

a reply to: whereislogic

"Unborn Child" is 100% an oxymoron.

If it's 'unborn', it's NOT A CHILD.

Fetus is just biological mass, unfeeling, unthinking, just a chunk of cells, and that's all.

The only time it SEEMS alive is when a soul planning to incarnate visits the fetus to 'try it out', like you would try out clothes. It's madness to call a jacket 'an unborn adult' just because some adult has tried it on, isn't it? The same logic applies here, a fetus is no more alive or a child than a jacket is alive or an adult.

Someone becomes a baby (and it's debatable whether a baby is a child or not - to me, a child has to be at least two years old or it's either a baby or a toddler, but there's some overlapping in these terms of course) ONLY after the first breath, not before (and even then, no one really BECOMES a baby, as the soul remains a separate thing from the body, always, just like a driver of a car is separate from the car).

PLEASE stop this over-dramatic nonsense terminology and 'shocking language' about 'murdering babies' or 'unborn children'. It's SO manipulative and transparent.

A fetus is not a baby or a child, removing fetus from a body is no more murder or killing than removing a tumor from a body is.

It's only murder after the silver cord is attached, which happens at first breath. THEN you can call it murder, killing, etc.

But there's NEVER such a thing as 'unborn child', as people are never really children anyway (only their bodies are), and if someone is 'unborn' (you are not REALLY born anyway, you're just incarnated - you were born a long time ago when you were separated from the father-flow of the Universe, and it had nothing to do with physical bodies or 'children'), but even if they were, that childhood would not begin until around 2 years of age, but even if it did, it would only begin at the first breath the earliest.

A fetus in a womb is NOT a child, it's not 'unborn' anything, it's JUST a fetus that a soul sometimes tries on like a jacket, and often ABANDONS (ever heard of 'stillborn'? Why are these dead, if a fetus is already a child according to your misleading, lying and just plain wrong rhetoric?) it.

It's not granted or guaranteed that incarnation will happen even if you don't remove the fetus from the body.

I don't get this hysteria, shaming language, dramatic rhetoric and manipulative language around such a HARMLESS, 100% ETHICAL OPERATION as abortion and such.

STOP TALKING ABOUT UNBORN ANYTHING, IT ISN'T REALITY!

You are very childish if you resort to this type of language. Please face the truth instead and stop hysteric fearmongering about something completely harmonious, normal and good for the planet.

This is a lot of self justification for people who kill their unborn.

You'll answer for it. Whether today or in the future. You won't escape - and your warped moral degeneracy will be your blanket.

Sometimes you have to pinch yourself at what you read online. Your justifications all boil down to selfish moral preening. Again, disgusting.

You're disgusting, that about covers it. There's a difference in making an mistake and embracing one. You're living a lie - abortion is evil.