POW UA Marine Lieutenant describes the killing of Mariupol civilians

a reply to: Grimpachi

Probably true. Russia has teams running around looking like civilians. Maybe they were civilians, maybe Russian agents. If they are Russian agents and they are not stopped they or others could die. Russia created this situation.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Grimpachi

Where are all the UN and red cross personnel singing the same tune as yourself?

Funny you should mention red cross. Russia has been trying for weeks to get red cross to set up a facility in Russia to help with refugees from Ukraine. But zelensky and the Ukrainian government is saying somehow the red cross will legitimize Russia's war crimes...
Source


Red cross is an impartial viewer the only people who wouldn't want the red cross there are the people with stuff to hide.

Think about that for a bit.

a reply to: JAY1980

Guys name is "Zelenskyy" not "zelensky" so there is that for you to think about.

I'm sure the people on those buses who were evacuated to safety don't find mentioning the "Red Cross" to be quite so "funny".

Simply suggesting the Red Cross members present, and that helped evacuate these people from the Azovstal steelworks, along with the survivor's testimonies might be an idea with regards to establishing who's committing atrocities and war crimes.

Just because they are impartial viewers(The Red Cross) doesn't mean cannot report what they have seen with their own eyes.

originally posted by: JAY1980

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Grimpachi

Where are all the UN and red cross personnel singing the same tune as yourself?

Funny you should mention red cross. Russia has been trying for weeks to get red cross to set up a facility in Russia to help with refugees from Ukraine. But zelensky and the Ukrainian government is saying somehow the red cross will legitimize Russia's war crimes...
Source


Red cross is an impartial viewer the only people who wouldn't want the red cross there are the people with stuff to hide.

Think about that for a bit.

Nonsense, the Red Cross has refused to enter russia because russia keeps attacking their volunteers traveling in humanitarian corridors, and even kidnapped (along with some 'torture' claims) an entire Red Cross team for a while.

Meanwhile, the Red Cross has been quite vocal in it's demands that russia allow the Red Cross to evacuate civilians from Marioupol, demands that russia angrily refused for 2 months before finally relenting a few days ago when russia allowed the Red Cross to start evacuating civilians from the steel plant there.



russian propaganda is fun.

It just isn't 'real' in any way.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Grimpachi

Probably true. Russia has teams running around looking like civilians. Maybe they were civilians, maybe Russian agents. If they are Russian agents and they are not stopped they or others could die. Russia created this situation.

It is a tactic used not just by Russia. During the fighting, it was said many times it was made things more difficult that many people did not wish to evacuate and the Ru forces knew there were enemy forces posing as civilians to gather intel and call in firing coordinates. It was something they had to accept.

The thing that should have your attention is the Lieutenant said they killed civilians and I will call them that because there was no evidence to the contrary when it happened from cover. Although he doesn't state it "cover" likely means from inside one of the homes. The people if they heard the warning shots had no way of knowing it was for them or the area they were entering was supposed to be a no go zone.

As he said they were likely looking for food.

a reply to: Grimpachi

1 - I will assume the youtube account is you then. Asking if an account on youtube is yours does not violate ATS T&C and in no way asks for personal information. However the videos the youtube account posts, which are then used here, does violate the T&C because it is knowingly false and misleading.

2 - The video is taken that way to deny people, who know what they are looking for, from picking up on visual cues. Like being forced to read or say something you dont agree with or the cues a person gives away when they are lying / searchi9ng for answers.

originally posted by: Grimpachi
It was something they had to accept.

Except it wasn't, they could, you know, not invade. Ukraine had to accept it, as they had no choice on being invaded.

a reply to: JAY1980

Thats because there are accusations that the Ukrainians sent to Russia are there against there will. See the info on filtration camps.

a reply to: Xcathdra

However the videos the youtube account posts, which are then used here, does violate the T&C because it is knowingly false and misleading.

Please show with evidence what is false or misleading in the videos.

Stating propaganda repeatedly is not a valid method. The reasons you gave are opinions, not facts. Show your work. Explain how you come to that conclusion with sources. Claiming to be an expert is also not valid.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Grimpachi
It was something they had to accept.

Except it wasn't, they could, you know, not invade. Ukraine had to accept it, as they had no choice on being invaded.

Can I take your reply to mean you approve of UAF murdering civilians?

a reply to: Grimpachi

You can take it to mean I put the blame on Russia for creating this situation. Russia could have not invaded right? They can withdraw right? They can not pose as civilians right?

Does Ukraine have any say over any of that?

I put a gun to your head and tell you to shoot your wife or daughter, choose or they both die. You shoot your wife. Are you at fault, or am I?

originally posted by: Grimpachi
Stating propaganda repeatedly is not a valid method.

You would be the expert...

By all means explain how the old guy knew they were Ukrainian snipers, given how Snipers operate the old guy apparently has super powers.

The POW from this thread and I already told you why they chose that camera angle...

Do we need to go down the road of Lancaster?

Anything from Grims account on youtube and your account here should be reviewed.

originally posted by: Grimpachi

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Grimpachi
It was something they had to accept.

Except it wasn't, they could, you know, not invade. Ukraine had to accept it, as they had no choice on being invaded.

Can I take your reply to mean you approve of UAF murdering civilians?

Ill add this comment to your list as well...

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

You can take it to mean I put the blame on Russia for creating this situation.

You blame Russia for Ukraine's armed forces murdering civilians.

OK, if that is your position I hope you are consistent.

Because, by that logic, it is the US fault for every suicide bomber used in Iraq, every child strapped with a bomb and used as a weapon against US forces is the US fault.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Grimpachi

You can take it to mean I put the blame on Russia for creating this situation. Russia could have not invaded right? They can withdraw right? They can not pose as civilians right?

Does Ukraine have any say over any of that?

I put a gun to your head and tell you to shoot your wife or daughter, choose or they both die. You shoot your wife. Are you at fault, or am I?

Russia didn't create situation it was the US and the senators who came to Ukraine a few years back in 2014 told them that they could win agaisnt Russia and Russians who lived there in Eastern provinces for decades.

Russia wasn't the one that created the blowback the US did.

For the past 8 years their actions in eastern provinces like Donbass by killing civilians and the unjust killing of 220+ Russians in Odessa by the far right nationalists.


Remember when they burned that building with innocent people trapped inside?

a reply to: Xcathdra

By all means explain how the old guy knew they were Ukrainian snipers, given how Snipers operate the old guy apparently has super powers.

What old guy? There is no old guy in this video.

The POW from this thread and I already told you why they chose that camera angle...

Yes, you told me. Deny Ignorance.

Don't make claims and expect them to be taken as fact if you are unwilling or unable to back them up with the research that can show others how you came to that conclusion.

What you stated was opinion, not fact unless you are able and willing to show everyone it is fact.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Remember when Ukraine and the so called protestors attacked 220+ Russians alive inside a building? burning them? was there any justice for those innocent Russians that were killed?

At the Trade union building?

There were people trapped in this building.

Odessa's large Soviet-era trade union building was set alight on Friday as the pro-Ukraine activists mounted an assault as dusk fell. Police said at least 31 people choked to death on smoke or were killed when jumping out of windows after the trade union building was set on fire.

There were more than 31 people.

a reply to: Grimpachi


You keep posting it as a 'source', yet can't provide anything that isn't staged by russian press officers.

Real Journalists make the folks they interview available to others, propagandists behave as lancaster has.

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

Real Journalists make the folks they interview available to others, propagandists behave as lancaster has.

CNN did make propaganda for the rebels by faking a chemical attack in Syria.

originally posted by: vNex92
a reply to: Xcathdra

Remember when Ukraine and the so called protestors attacked 220+ Russians alive inside a building? burning them? was there any justice for those innocent Russians that were killed?

At the Trade union building?

There were people trapped in this building.

Odessa's large Soviet-era trade union building was set alight on Friday as the pro-Ukraine activists mounted an assault as dusk fell. Police said at least 31 people choked to death on smoke or were killed when jumping out of windows after the trade union building was set on fire.

There were more than 31 people.

You mean the one that burned while russia was using the Ukrainian trade unions in their effort to invade Ukraine to steal land?

Nobody else likes what russia did to Ukraine back then either.