Older residents of the eastern Ukraine reluctant to hit the road

I completely understand the sentiment, but damn is 59 considered old in Ukraine? not a good sign if people don't have many options. Sounds like they could be a lot of this demographic still in the war zone, just as Russia settles into war mode.

Makes wonder is there a divide as this portrays among Ukrainians? and to what extent?

Regardless, if they are having problems distinguishing what is happening while in-country, no wonder there is a growing divide internationally.

on a side note, I saw where the Iraqi Army and the Kurds are fighting again. You know just like pre Desert Storm.

www.bbc.com...

Horislavets used to speak regularly to her sister, who lives on the other side of the frontline that separates the territory still in Ukrainian control from the "Donetsk People's Republic" - the breakaway region where Russia has forged a separatist movement since 2014.

The phone connection to her sister died about two weeks ago, Horislavets said. But the relationship had already deteriorated after her sister began telling her that she thought the news about Russia's attacks on Ukraine was fake.

Her story is not uncommon in eastern Ukraine, where frontlines have divided families and Russian propaganda has convinced many on the Russian side that the atrocities and attacks reported in international media are fake - that Ukraine is the aggressor.

or is this more western propaganda...

a reply to: putnam6

The phone connection to her sister died about two weeks ago, Horislavets said. But the relationship had already deteriorated after her sister began telling her that she thought the news about Russia's attacks on Ukraine was fake.

Who do you believe? The people who are in closest proximity to what's happening? People who are telling you from first-hand perspective?

Or are you going to listen to what the media has polished up for you ... with their twist?

I stopped believing anything the media says a LONG time ago. Most people around here did too.

originally posted by: Snarl
a reply to: putnam6

The phone connection to her sister died about two weeks ago, Horislavets said. But the relationship had already deteriorated after her sister began telling her that she thought the news about Russia's attacks on Ukraine was fake.

Who do you believe? The people who are in closest proximity to what's happening? People who are telling you from first-hand perspective?

Or are you going to listen to what the media has polished up for you ... with their twist?

I stopped believing anything the media says a LONG time ago. Most people around here did too.

This is Eastern Ukraine it's the area where the fighting has been ongoing pre-invasion, doesn't make one side right or wrong it just shows they have been and will likely continue to fight for a long time.

I still fall back on something I mentioned in another thread.

Certainly by now whatever threat Ukraine's "Nazis" previously had to have been neutralized by now?

evidently not... are those military targets being hit again outside eastern Ukraine?

LIVE Russia bombards cities across Ukraine as attacks intensify

www.bbc.com...

Ukrainian officials say Russian bombardment of several cities across the country has killed at least nine people
Seven people died when multiple missiles hit the western city of Lviv, which had largely escaped attack until now
Two people have also been killed after shelling in the northern city of Kharkiv, Ukraine says
The capital Kyiv and the southern city of Mykolaiv, near the port of Odesa, are among other cities where shelling is reported
Ukraine and Russia have again failed to agree on safe escape routes for civilians trapped in besieged areas, including the shattered city of Mariupol
The UN is reporting that more than 4.9 million Ukrainians have now fled the country as a result of the war

a reply to: Snarl

How many Russian generals have died in the Ukraine? How much of the supposed Nazi command has been captured and brought to trail by Russian forces?

What’s Russia’s goal. Capture Nazis or bomb the Ukraine out of existence. How many fortunes spent on Russian missiles that could have been spent on bringing supposed Nazis to justice using current Ukrainian law, and provide humanitarian aid. I guess leading lawful investigations and providing supposed needed humanitarian aid doesn’t pay off in capturing natural resources. Driving civilians off with mass bombings and shelling does. This isn’t a war about Nazis. It’s a war over natural resources.

originally posted by: neutronflux
It’s a war over natural resources.

We are not in disagreement.

You do know that, right?

a reply to: neutronflux

How many fortunes spent on Russian missiles that could have been spent on bringing supposed Nazis to justice using current Ukrainian law, and provide humanitarian aid.

What Ukrainian law against Nazis are you talking about?

Here is a pic of the Kyiv police department

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: neutronflux

How many fortunes spent on Russian missiles that could have been spent on bringing supposed Nazis to justice using current Ukrainian law, and provide humanitarian aid.

What Ukrainian law against Nazis are you talking about?

Here is a pic of the Kyiv police department

You've gotta stop posting photographic evidence of the truth. It's gotta be hurting people's psyches.

I can do Aldo Raine...

So what's the ratio of Nazi Ukrainian deaths to non-Nazi Ukrainian deaths? ie how many innocent civilian deaths warrant getting the 'Nazis out of Ukraine"?

originally posted by: Snarl

originally posted by: neutronflux
It’s a war over natural resources.

We are not in disagreement.

You do know that, right?

People in Russia would disagree

Manifesto published in Russian media reflects Putin regime's ruthless plans in Ukraine

Susanne Sternthal, Texas State University

Published: April 14, 2022 1.26pm EDT

theconversation.com...

The answer, Sergeytsev writes, is total annihilation. He writes that “all who have associated themselves with Nazism should be liquidated and banned.”

Sergeytsev urges Russian soldiers to be merciless and force Ukraine to its knees and calls for more of the same inhumane tactics that took place in Bucha and the towns of Mariupul and Berdyansk.

The problem is Putin’s propaganda is preached and believed in Russia.

Translation of a small part of the article

ria.ru...

Ukraine is in this situation. The fact that the Ukrainian voter voted for "Poroshenko's peace" and "Zelensky's world" should not be misleading - Ukrainians were quite satisfied with the shortest way to peace through the blitzkrieg, which was clearly hinted at by the last two Ukrainian presidents during their election. It was this method of "appeasement" of internal anti-fascists - through total terror - that was used in Odessa, Kharkov, Dnepropetrovsk, Mariupol and other Russian cities. And this quite satisfied the Ukrainian layman. Denazification is a set of measures against the Nazi mass of the population, which technically cannot be directly punished as war criminals.

The Nazis who have taken up arms should be destroyed as much as possible on the battlefield. There should be no significant distinction between the Armed Forces of Ukraine and the so-called national battalions, as well as the territorial defense that joined these two types of military formations.

Sounds a lot like a call to genocide, huh. And sponsored by the Russian state as gospel…

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: neutronflux

How many fortunes spent on Russian missiles that could have been spent on bringing supposed Nazis to justice using current Ukrainian law, and provide humanitarian aid.

What Ukrainian law against Nazis are you talking about?

Here is a pic of the Kyiv police department

One.

The logo in the background is pixilated. Have a quoted cited sources of the photo and name of the photographer.

Two..

What does your post have to do with..

“ How many Russian generals have died in the Ukraine? How much of the supposed Nazi command has been captured and brought to trail by Russian forces?

What’s Russia’s goal. Capture Nazis or bomb the Ukraine out of existence. How many fortunes spent on Russian missiles that could have been spent on bringing supposed Nazis to justice using current Ukrainian law, and provide humanitarian aid. I guess leading lawful investigations and providing supposed needed humanitarian aid doesn’t pay off in capturing natural resources. Driving civilians off with mass bombings and shelling does. This isn’t a war about Nazis. It’s a war over natural resources.”

Is it false the Ukraine has laws to limit and clamp down on Nazis.,

a reply to: Grimpachi

Or you saying the Russian military can’t even capture cops….

a reply to: neutronflux

How many Russian generals have died in the Ukraine?

I don't know but I do know that some that MSM reported as killed made appearances and statements after their supposed deaths mocking the reports.

How much of the supposed Nazi command has been captured and brought to trail by Russian forces?

I don't know how many were captured. I have seen two so far but it is not something I have attempted to track. As for them being brought to trial can you cite examples of a normal timetable for that sort of thing?

How many fortunes spent on Russian missiles that could have been spent on bringing supposed Nazis to justice using current Ukrainian law,

Again, what law?

Also since one pick wasn't enough and you have doubts.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Grimpachi

Or you saying the Russian military can’t even capture cops….

No, I am saying the Nazis were in positions of power. The type of power that is heavily armed.

Name another country a militia/national guard leader can publicly on record threaten to murder the president of that country if they went against their will and negotiated peace and then face zero repercussions.

FYI, that was before the invasion.

a reply to: Grimpachi

Well if being a neo Nazi is not against the law in Ukraine, I suppose that's none of my business, as I am an American. I would say, it's none of Putin's business either.

a reply to: vance

My tax dollars going to fund heavy weaponry that is being given to neo nazis as well as train them make it my business.

a reply to: Grimpachi

A bunch of random pictures you can’t cite context as in location and dates,the original source, and the photographer.

Might as well be the white supremacist and Nazis fighting as Russia Mercenaries.

Oh. Look, something cited where it can be actually validated and scrutinized.

Russian mercenaries in Ukraine linked to far-right extremists

theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/20/russian-mercenaries-in-ukraine-linked-to-far-right-extremists



Russian mercenaries fighting in Ukraine, including the Kremlin-backed Wagner Group, have been linked to far-right extremism including an organisation designated by the US as terrorist, analysis reveals.
Although Vladimir Putin says his “special military operation” is aimed at the “denazification” of Ukraine, an investigation has found links between pro-Russian forces and violent rightwing extremism, including those directly affiliated with Wagner.

You, “ Again, what law? ”

Is this false..

Ukraine law banning Communist and Nazi propaganda has a legitimate aim, but does not comply with European standards, say constitutional law experts of the Venice Commission and OSCE/ODIHR
Venice, 18.12.2015 – The Law of Ukraine on the condemnation of the Communist and National Socialist (Nazi) regimes and prohibition of propaganda of their symbols pursues a legitimate aim, but is too broad in scope which can lead to obstructing free expression, preventing political parties from running in elections, and it introduces unfair sanctions that should be revised. These and other recommendations are part of a joint interim opinion by the Venice Commission and the OSCE/ODIHR adopted today.

rm.coe.int...

www.csmonitor.com...


One of the laws passed late last week by the Verkhovna Rada, Ukraine's unicameral parliament, will ban communist and Nazi ideologies along with all of their emblems, including the five-pointed red star, crimson flag, and hammer-and-sickle. It even mandates local authorities across Ukraine to pull down Soviet-era monuments and change street names that honored communist-era heroes.

a reply to: Grimpachi

Funny a country on the UN Security Council that invaded a country that “ ban communist and Nazi ideologies along with all of their emblems” because of Nazis can’t seem to provide any actual evidence. And Russia has to rely on trolls posting random pictures with not cited date, location, source, and photographer for their “evidence”.


Seems Russia is more interested in bombing and shelling civilians than anything. Anything to get those natural resources.

a reply to: neutronflux

A bunch of random pictures you can’t sight context as in location and dates,the original source, and the photographer.

The first two frames tell you where when and who. It also gives a link to the original video it came from.

You, “ Again, what law? ”

Is this false..

I don't know if it is false but if those laws passed and they are being upheld can you explain why in the time period since they were passed monuments to Stephan Bandera have been erected?
Bandera was Hitler's top spy.







CIA declassified docs


Edit to add:

Also, the Nazi in the police station is Artem Bonov which was spelled out for you. Go ahead and look him up. Or don't.

a reply to: neutronflux

Another thing. The OSCE has lost all credibility regarding this conflict and what led up to it.

Evidence of the OSCE working with Ukraine to provide target acquisition and correcting fire

h ttps://files.catbox.moe/mp0yoq.mp4

Remove the space from (h ttps)

a reply to: Grimpachi

You

The first two frames tell you where when and who. It also gives a link to the original video it came from.

The quote makes a claim that you cannot produce a source and creator to verify and date.

I don't know if it is false but if those laws passed and they are being upheld can you explain why in the time period since they were passed monuments to Stephan Bandera have been erected?
Bandera was Hitler's top spy.

Russia is spending fortunes on bombing and shell civilians, vs helping investigate Nazis under anti-Nazi laws supported by those civilians. Hum…

The best evidence you can provide is material predating the 1960’s? Decades before the anti-Nazi laws in the Ukraine of 2015.


While you ignore modern Russia using far right wing extremists in their military structure.


Your some sort of special…