Why Russia feels surrounded

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: 19Bones79

Thing with NATO is that countries have to apply to be a member , the slide of Russia into totalitarianism is a better recruiting Sargent for NATO than if NATO sought out members.

Yeah I get it. Red vs Blue rah rah.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Not sure if the US count is being accurately kept...

a reply to: F2d5thCavv2

Because NATO didn't how to do that without making NATO completely ineffective.

To me that sounds like a brilliant strategy of keep your enemies closer than your friends. Direct communication in a mutually cooperative environment could've been a good thing.

They did it on the space station.

a reply to: Xtrozero


I seemed to have missed your reply.


I believe this situation can be solved.

First of all, the lies and deception needs to END on both sides.

If you're supporting one side in this conflict, disentangle yourself.

If the objective is "we need to find a solution, now how do we go about doing that?", we have a starting point from which we can work from.

Now here lies the biggest problem that partisans on either side are not willing to relinquish:


If transparency into actions on both sides are agreed upon, does it weaken each sides negotiation power and to what extent?

Because a social media platform like Facebook advocating hatred against an entire platform is deliberately hardening the opposition's stance.

Fake reports intended to damage the reputation of the opposing side is deliberately hardening the opposition's stance.

Add to that the first family in the United States is deeply invested in Ukraine through their corrupt dealings there.

You can say yeah Bones but you're also being partial only highlighting what you consider the bad actors from the West.

But I only receive my news from within the West. They have censored my ability to see news from Russia.

Do I believe Russia to be in a more rightful position?

Not at all.

Again, this is not about choosing sides.


This is about us being fed propaganda and lies from both sides they do not want us to look objectively at the situation.

They are hellbent on feeding us their version of the truth and they oppose transparency because they fear how the people will react with that knowledge.

It will not bode well for their interests.


Accept that all leaders are working towards a bigger goal. It is not a shared goal of humanity. It is purely to benefit the elites at our expense.

Picking a side at this point is basically saying well I prefer to have the leash of this master around my neck, telling me when to eat, #, piss, sit or sleep.

originally posted by: 19Bones79
a reply to: F2d5thCavv2


Let me simplify. Tomorrow news breaks of Russian icbms pointed directly at the states from Cuba.

How would you feel about that?

There already are, just not from Cuba, and a bunch roving around in the ocean, technology has changed since 1962.

I don't think any ICBM'S were pointed at Russia from the Ukraine..were they?

a reply to: vonclod

There already are, just not from Cuba, and a bunch roving around in the ocean, technology has changed since 1962.

Ah, an update from the outside world! We thought you guys were dead! The last time we've heard from you was in 1961! Was happenin' dawg?

I don't think any ICBM'S were pointed at Russia from the Ukraine..were they?

Just go watch the clip in the OP because it's obvious that you didn't.

originally posted by: 19Bones79

First of all, the lies and deception needs to END on both sides.

If transparency into actions on both sides are agreed upon, does it weaken each sides negotiation power and to what extent?

If you know Russia like I do this can never happen for them. Whatever we see the West do in this area the Russians are really 10 times worst. Back when they were the USSR they were true masters at manipulating reality to their desires. I use to go to Russia back in the 70s and man o man did I see people living in a reality that wasn't the rest of the world, and I'm sure much of that is the same today at many levels.

For 10 years I have said Russia is not our enemy and then this happened and they are right back in their old game. Putin attacking Ukraine is a HUGE game changer for most of EU, not so much the US.

Add to that the first family in the United States is deeply invested in Ukraine through their corrupt dealings there.

Just might need to hold our noses until DeSantis wins in 2024, but huge changes coming this Nov too.

You can say yeah Bones but you're also being partial only highlighting what you consider the bad actors from the West.

But I only receive my news from within the West. They have censored my ability to see news from Russia.

Do I believe Russia to be in a more rightful position?

Not at all.

We need to also think about people supporting Russia and Russia themselves tend pick a small amount of truths and then warp it into some big evil event to justify their actions which their true reasons are not even related.

Truth: The US have invested 21 million in labs in Ukraine over the last few decades, every country has labs, hell France has like 8 level 4s. Many of these labs are older USSR ones that have been repurposed and modernized etc to do what is needed today.
False: We found 30 US Bio-weapons labs, but destroyed all samples to keep people safe.

Truth: There are Nazis and right wing nationalist in Ukraine, around 5000 to 8000 been fighting Russia in Putin's proxy war since 2014. Only 2% of the population are politically aligned with the Nazi party.
False: We are talking Ukraine because they are all Nazis

Truth: A lot of towns are being destroyed, civilians are being killed unnecessary, 52 people were killed at a train stop where cluster bombs were used.
False: The Nazis Ukrainians are doing all this to themselves, we Russians are not.

I could go on and on, but with Russia it is so deeply embedded into their actions it just can not be cut out.

Again, this is not about choosing sides.

Accept that all leaders are working towards a bigger goal. It is not a shared goal of humanity. It is purely to benefit the elites at our expense.

Picking a side at this point is basically saying well I prefer to have the leash of this master around my neck, telling me when to eat, #, piss, sit or sleep.

Still at the end of the day it was Putin who attacked. People seem to not remember that. There is ZERO threat to Russia from EU and so one needs to think about what is Putin truly wanting to gain here. NATO outside of the Brits and US are a wet noodle who do not want to fight at all. They just want Russian's energy, so who the hell would invade Russia ever again? The biggest threat to Putin from NATO is he can not attack and take any old satellite countries back if they are in NATO. So if 15 old satellites join NATO he is done getting anything back while he still has no fears of being attack.

a reply to: Xtrozero


Yah ok red blue rah rah.


I get it. Go team.

originally posted by: 19Bones79

Yah ok red blue rah rah.


I get it. Go team.

Not really, but Russia had no reason outside of personal gains to invade. That is costing a crap load of lives and destroying the lives of whole towns. I'm looking at this at much more simpler level of you and I can banter all day back and forth, but when I start beating you with a baseball bat that is a different game, you agree?

I guess my point is what you want fixing can not be fixed. ALL of this is in Russian's hands though. They will either deescalate it or escalate it, its their choice as to how bad it gets for everyone.

a reply to: Xtrozero


You do realize that when you are witnessing a car crash happen in real time you don't have to pick a side.

originally posted by: 19Bones79
a reply to: Xtrozero


You do realize that when you are witnessing a car crash happen in real time you don't have to pick a side.

When one of the drivers, stole a car, while drunk, and purposefully crashed into the other car, it's not hard to be angry with that driver.

originally posted by: Brotherman
a reply to: 19Bones79

What exactly did Russia do to make nato want to get that close? There has to be 2 sides here for sure.

LOL, that's the same thing as victim shaming.

"What did she do to make that dude rape her".

LOL @ what did Russia do to make NATO deploy nukes at their border.

originally posted by: 19Bones79
a reply to: Xtrozero


You do realize that when you are witnessing a car crash happen in real time you don't have to pick a side.

Depending on the type of crash you would have to identify as a witness, give a statement about exactly what you observed and possibly testify at trial. I am simply pointing out its not as simple as you think it is. Your statement goes into determining which driver is at fault for the accident as well as any possible criminal charges.

A guy I know released this video just a few days before the invasion. Not many thought there would be an actual invasion at that point. Just more drum beating. He didn't really think it would happen either. His video is a little long but he covers a lot of things I don't think a lot of people know or knew. Give it a watch he worked hard to make it entertaining for American audiences and you may get a new perspective.

a reply to: vonclod


We're not talking about Joe Biden in this example.

a reply to: Xcathdra


You can give that statement but what the police already know is that these two drivers have been playing chicken since before you were born.

originally posted by: 19Bones79
a reply to: Xcathdra


You can give that statement but what the police already know is that these two drivers have been playing chicken since before you were born.

I wont go into the legalities involved so as not to bore everyone or derail the thread. I will say again its not as simple as you are trying to make it out to be. Essentially (at least under US/State law) the moment 1 party overcomes the second party they must deescalate. Failure to do so shifts the culpability to that person.

In the case of Ukraine its a clear cut case of self defense, under there local laws and well as international law / UN charter article 51.

Russia and Ukraine can call each other all the names they want. It still does not justify, nor excuse, and unprovoked invasion by Russia.

a reply to: Xcathdra

so as not to bore everyone or derail the thread. I will say again its not as simple as you are trying to make it out to be.

Oh, the irony.

a reply to: Grimpachi


That video deserves a thread of its own, Grim.


At this point I'm stuck in this thread with some thick-headed cheerleaders to whom facts don't matter as cheerleaders can only support one side in the hopes of getting #ed by the quarterback.

It's a trickle-down romance and it's still a better love story than Twilight.

originally posted by: 19Bones79
a reply to: Xcathdra

so as not to bore everyone or derail the thread. I will say again its not as simple as you are trying to make it out to be.

Oh, the irony.

yup just like this.