Are colors really colors...?

a reply to: glend

Very poetic and cathartic.

But where and in what did this "stillness" exist?

As to awareness of our being, i imagine that's down to perspective which is a very personal experience.

a reply to: PerfectAnomoly

Color is a product of light. Without light there is no color. Hence black.
Sunlight is full spectrum light. Artificial light is not full spectrum in most cases. Certain wavelengths are more pronounced to the eye than others as determined by the spectrum which emanates from the light source.
A true reading of color comes with diffused sunlight as the truest representation of a color.
Our perception of color is always being tested by the variety of lighting situations we wade through daily.

a reply to: JimmyNeutr0n

Your eyes are kind of like tiny directional radar dishes that detect a small part of the EM spectrum, wavelengths of energy in what we call the Visible spectrum.

The different colours are different wavelength's or combinations of wavelength's of energy.

BUT some psychic mediums can see halos of energy around people that appear to them as coloured halos of light, they can even in some cases diagnose a persons mental and physical health by what they can see.

And some people that have had Out of Body Experiences have also seen places with many colours.

They are NOT using there eye's so are using some other noncorporeal faculty to see a different spectrum which is separate from the EM spectrum we are familiar with.

So are colours colours?.

To us they are and that is good enough for me.

Think though how many insects see into the UV part of the spectrum as well and how in fact even of they do not see it as colour as we do they see information that can lead them to nectar rich flowers by the light they can see but we can't.


In the deep sea and even miles down into the crust of the earth were light never reaches but were there is warmth, water and nutrients life flourishes at the microscopic scale, the earth itself is almost alive but only with the creation of the eye have we been able to see.


HOWEVER.

A certain man also called the sleeping prophet Edgar Cayce was said to be able to go to sleep with a closed book under his pillow and to be able to quote it chapter and verse the next day in some account's AND there have been instances of people blindfolded which hypnotized whom were said to be able to read by simply having a printed page pressed to there skin.

Your skin is light sensitive, it produced vitamin D from sunlight for example but even so this is weird.

I once had a semi OBE back when I Was having a bit of a break down, I wanted to literally go and drag the devil into the lake of fire even if I had to go in as well that is how much I hated him and blamed him for everything that had gone wrong in my life, I got about six inches out of my body after asking a little spirit friend of mine to let me out and was just rising, I saw the room and it was night time but the light coming from myself was intense blue white and like pure lightning there was no shadow, it was intense but then I felt a firm hand, never saw but felt it press me very firmly back down into my body and have been unable to get out since, not entirely sure if they were protecting me or the Devil on that one.

Of course I was crazy but to me the experience was as real as day to day life, I did not even know were I was going just wanted to get back at the Devil and prevent him hurting anyone else as he had me in my mind - I was very ill at the time.

I was at the time very ill and seeing things, a bunch of odd eyed men in a desert with me on one side of a dry river bed with no water in it just stones and them on the other side, reddish sky, red sand and stone asking me "Will you accept being a medium", I said no because I am a Christian and know that is against my Lords teaching.

On another occasion seeing through the eye's of someone in a bamboo cage and seeing a small China man with no teeth in his head laughing through the bamboo bars while prodding me with a bamboo rod, I felt rage toward China for some time after that and on one fevered night felt as if I had some form of power and held China in my hand and could crush it, I then remembered there were small children there that did not know there right from there left hand so I put this power which felt like a great weight down and tried to focus it gently into the core of the earth where it would do no harm, the next day I heard about an earth quake in central china and many people dead including a collapsed school which made me repentant even though I had actively tried NOT to harm that nation despite the nightmare images I had been receiving (which were more south east Asian than Chinese anyway).

The soul, the spirit is far more powerful and dangerous than any atomic bomb if it is unleashed in this manner though it takes a lot of pain to even begin to force us to inhabit this other self, a lot of pain to drive us out of our more comfortable and smaller self.

And not physical pain, spiritual pain, the type that you feel in your body as fever and burning as if you are rotting in a stomach full of acid and being devoured by something that makes you want to tear it apart from within, like when you feel someone else within you, can feel there face that does not line up with yours, there sneering face under your own skin that feel's alien to you as it moves within you, there desires and want's that are not yours, there impulses that are alien to you and how it divides you against yourself driving you out of your mind as you battle against them the only way you can by refusing to let them have you, be you or own you and oh how you just want to face them on some common plain and tear them apart for what they are doing, for there vile and evil nature that is so opposite to your own.

Some call it madness but others know it for what it is, many saint's lived alone in caves and fought day and night against presence only they could see, they fought and screamed and battled against these presence and in the end they won, pity the little children that are not prepared or are thrown to these wolves and whom then tear them apart.

I though no saint have seen things you would not believe, experiences hell within myself in a way you would never want to experience.


God is real but sometimes at our darkest moments we wonder were he is, he is always there though but like a child learning to walk we maybe have sometimes to learn to fight these things off all by ourselves, he will not give us more than we can bare but oh how great a burden it can be and yet my burden was but a feather before the Lords own and if this feather was what he exchanged for mine then only he knows how terrible my rightful burden must have been.

a reply to: DerBeobachter

If you can both agree that Clifford the big dog is indeed the same red as a telephone booth in England then a rose by the same name?

Although when it comes to blue and purple there are definitely two types of people.

originally posted by: cameos
God spoke the world into existence. The Bible indicates that God spoke and said, "Let there be light!" which would indicate that the sound of God's voice existed before light. That leads me to wonder how light is derived from sound.

something seen derived from the unseen:
www.youtube.com...

a reply to: JimmyNeutr0n

Light is associated with many things mainly various forms of heat in an elemental wave pattern that varies is most accurate in its description.

When it comes to what people have turned into emotions or "feeling" tactile sensation? Hot or cold is better... as in more stable. Focusing on "white" intensifies the effect of the white wavelength in one's experience of it. The overall effect of that concentration is "cold" when focusing on red is the equivalent at the other extreme as "hot".

Other than visibility you can notice "cold" and "hot" as sounds/air... taste and touch with hot and cold are obvious.

Since all of that is contact based on one's impressions color is the result even if a color is not directly experienced... meaning even in light there is darkness... noticing the shadow how it falls in various contrasts and colors based on objects gives contrast or a sharpening or dulling of hues.

So what you say is not far off from the truth but such a truth varies given one's amount or level of experience in observation, as those objects around you would not exist without sight or you viewing them as was learned to view them, the learned to view them? What is a table? To some people it is only experienced as that thing on a wall, to toher only as on a floor with four legs with chairs around it. To someone knowing both? It could get pretty annoying when asked what those two things are by one or the other when only one or the other knows only that one thing as table... and yet in knowing it is only for that instant one needs to know it or when such a thing becomes visible otherwise back into the void it goes as impermanent not self and the suffering by it being there or not knowing if it is there or not ow worrying if it will be there or not is variable.

People play the rename game quite often and for fun and entertainment purposes as well as some sort of mental/physical trap... the very same people will find themselves in just such a hell at some point so doing such a thing is not advised while those ignorant to such things are innocent until they start playing that game themselves... making ignorance no excuse, those tired of such manipulative nonsense simply consider all of them doing such things in and with body speech and mind guilty until proven innocent... and there is no excuse for it, although countless have used all kinds of excuses.

In the briney deep most all of those extremophiles have lights and those that do not have special receptors that act like eyes allowing them to sense what they need to having adapted to the adversity of darkness the same way many of them are said to be "blind" meaning they adapted to the adversity of darkness later since many of them have "sightless eyes".

Using one's belief against them is a common tactic among those thinking they are superior in some manner and deludedly keep making games of that where none really exist also... but in such cases it is best to see it as an evolutionary ripple like an appendix of personality.

Nice OP

a reply to: andy06shake

"But where and in what did this "stillness" exist?"

It doesnt exist in spacetime so our mind cannot comprehend its nature. Our mind can only surmize that its at the root of all things (conciousness and phenomenon). Yet our awareness can witness that void of stillness within it self.

"As to awareness of our being, i imagine that's down to perspective which is a very personal experience."

Our mind exists in the relative in which no absolute truth exists. Our awareness is rooted in the absolute in which no relative truth can exist. Whilst we see ourselves as one or the other we do not exist in harmony. That disharmony results in a fragmentation of conciousness that we identify as self.

originally posted by: glend
a reply to: andy06shake
Our mind exists in the relative in which no absolute truth exists. Our awareness is rooted in the absolute in which no relative truth can exist. Whilst we see ourselves as one or the other we do not exist in harmony. That disharmony results in a fragmentation of conciousness that we identify as self.

Stillness or void is said to reside in the fourth consciousness or jhana/dhyana; Nirodha is the attainment of all jhana and samapatti. What is known as twice liberated or the attainment of Samyaksambuddha, still further is the apprehension of the thathagatha... "If someone sees me through form, or looks for me through sound, then that person cannot see the tathagata"

Co-dependent arising/origination(Samsara) and Co-operating cause for the putting an end to suffering/stress(Nirvana)

No first cause doctrine as existence is defined as suffering not created, awareness of that truth one strives to bring one's suffering to an end by following the path to completion, faith becomes belief belief becomes knowledge or knowing then faith and belief die as knowing takes their place:

Due to this: A (literal)
Due That:? (literal A) B
arises... that arising is of two types: Co-operating and Co-dependent
B arises due to A and A arises due to B
Neither A nor B arises without attachment to A as cause expecting B as result
If A is Birth then B is death the sickness would be Allowing A to reach B without first abandoning the idea or concept of A altogether. (liberation)

Not being cause for A to arise B cannot be attached as effect
Intention for A or B to arise as cause then becomes cause for A and B neither A or B both A and B without "self" as dependent or Co-dependent or free from the cycle of A and B arising passing coming and going as cause. Path leading to liberation or entanglement of all past co-dependent arising and the skillful practice of preventing future ones or path is ended nothing left further for this world.

If A and B are skillful in removing past attachments to A and then they are Cooperating causes as ONE with the same goal master/servant, teacher/disciple relationship; One effect that of removing dependent attachment of B to A as intention and not co-dependent arising as cause and effect(more lives and suffering);After which B becomes A and A identifies B and the process repeats. Neither cause nor effect of due expectation. Both cause and effect that is; purposeful, not purposeful, neither of by or for either purposeful or not not a purposeful path leading to stress and suffering.

Looking at Hinduism? Arjuna and Vishnu were in the same position Gautama and Ananda or Gautama/Subhuti were or any others Gautama taught the same path to freedom directly to. Arjuna was blinded by devotion to Shiva always doting on him the same way Subhuti would adore and admire Gautama for his attainments not seeing there was a path followed separate from the man, that he too could be or attain what he admired so much following the path... so when Gautama would turn around and there's his biggest admirer he'd question him into what he thought as a teaching... hoping one day what he was teaching him would "click" over in Subhuti mind releasing them both from admiration hell. Severe beatings are usually what occur these days or what is considered fallen if given over to secuality instead of servant/disciple relationship(The only reason it is considered a kali yuga or one of darkness).

For more light? Of course don't beat or fornicate with the admirers show them the path... as they see what they want to be and can't see the forest for the one tree they've fixated on, like a crush, or rabid fan; you're not gonna get rid of them... and that's usually the excuse for beating and sexually degrading them.

my good friend is color blind, for real. cant tell between red or green.

it's funny how we use colors so much.

from the written word to songs, paint it black, walking on velvet green, to art. /painting especially.

my mom had a 65 lavander caddie .

blood red sky, oceans blue, black heart etc.

in this plane we all can see the same color. on a "higher" plane"? or under the influence it is more subjective.

ETA; reminds me of a chuckel i got from a line in the big ban theory, Sheldon asked 'do you know how when you see prime numbers, they are red? and when you see sub prime numbers, they are pink and smell like gasoline? lol.

originally posted by: DerBeobachter
My question about colors is:

Do we all see the same colors?

For example, if me and another person look at something that is "red", does the other person really see the same color, the same red i see? Maybe he sees red but if i would look through his eyes with my mind i would see green. We both only say that it is red because we were told that what we see there is red but maybe the other persons "red" would be green in my mind.

I hope somebody gets what i mean, it´s a bit difficult to describe for me.

I totally get what you mean. Apparantly I'm color blind which has always intrigued me because I assure you my view of the world is certainly not just black/grey whatever. Growing up when it was brought up in conversation with say a new friend of course I would get the customary " what color is the sky then " or " what color jumper am I wearing " & usually after correctly answering these type of questions( sometimes near endless ) the confused questioner would ask me to explain it.
30-40 years later I still can't really.
I guess a lot of it comes down to programming in a way. Grass is green, sky is blue,red is top traffic light that type of thing.
So memory must play a big part.
I've wondered so many times in life what you said " what would that object look like in my mind through someone elses mind " (paraphrasing).
I can say being in the field of work as a gardener i've been frustrated big time mowing a lawn when certain combination of factors are at play.
WTF ??
mowing lawn & color blind ?!
If only shaving a bee's d*ck off a kikuya lawn after making a pass & turning around to do next pass a lot of those are guessed that i've butted up to that previous pass due to light/shade conditions.
The ammount of times I've wondered that previous question in those scenarios !

Reading that back I'm reminded I still can't put into words what I'm trying to explain properly.

I will say the most frustrating thing connected to colors to this day for me is knowing there is a number that's clear as day to most people in those circle tests & I swear I can see absolutely no part of it. Not just " oh yeah, i can see start of something there & follow it up to there & then lose it ".
I can't even tell a starting point.
Weird as really.

a reply to: fotsyfots

Would you have slapped Morpheus in the red or blue pill question?

What's more interesting is when he asks that question the filming is in black and white and those two pills are the only things in color... the interesting thing is that movie often shifts from color to black and white and it is hardly noticeable if you're into the music dialog or whatever else. There's also people that have what has gotten called "synesthesia" where they taste colors numbers and words etc or other such sense impression blends.

Of course not of the "normal" synesthesia gets called a disorder but meeting some of those people they seemed well adjusted in my opinion just someone that experiences the world differently... like how in the world Japanese people can stand looking at branches cracks in the road etc and not see hundreds of words is something I have yet to ever hear from any Japanese person as a complaint... but if I were looking up at a tree and the limbs were forming words(kanji) in the wind? I'd feel like that overdosed kid leaving the dentist wondering "is this the real life"? For the last time; No we are not going to see Paris or Nicole

But I know what you mean two movies I had to go back and look at when people said they were shot in black and white were Clerks and The Forbidden Zone... I overheard the argument one day at a coffee shop about Clerks and sure enough when I watched it expecting color it was in black and white, I suppose expecting a more modern movie to be in color colorized it the first time I saw it... Then donating for a Forbidden Zone II to be made and saw that a color version of the original was going to be released? I said oh man this is Clerks all over again, always seeing that one in color before then too.

a reply to: Crowfoot

You certainly are a wealth of information. I looked up Nirodha as being cessation Sañña (perception) and Vedanā (feeling). In meditating that cessation rolls from my feet to my head like a wave turning the skin into concrete but when it reaches my lungs/breath I battle it in fear of letting go. If I can overcome that fear I should be able to achieve Nirodha within 10 or so minutes. But at present, I typically spend 1 - 2 hours in a state of battle that I have only won a few times. Is there any technique that can help in that regard?

Thank you for your advice, always appreciated.

a reply to: glend

Well if it does not exist in space-time, where does it exist?

Outside of space-time per-chance, if so then where and when is that?

Ones mans truth is another mans lie glend, as to awareness well Descartes's cogito, ergo sum(I think, therefore I am) would just about seem to cover it.

We exist inside an explosion aka the big bang that is the universe, to suggest otherwise requires evidence and facts, and outside of space-time those are going to be rather hard to come by mate.

Well, being colorblind, I keep animals around to see for me. I use air pressure and scents to move around. The visual spectrum for humans is pretty small. I'd suppose colors are really colors. I guess I used to see colors, I still dream with color, but it's different now, more like shadows and movement. And.. I've rediscovered painting, and I enjoy it quite a bit. It probably looks bad to anyone else. Come to think of it, colors are strangely vivid in my dreams... Eh, maybe why I like to paint. I just have to ask my wife what color I'm holding.

Which reminds me, when my wife asked what kind of ring I wanted, I asked for the colors of her hair and eyes. So I guess I still am familiar with those.

It’s easy to forget (or never realise) that our physical body and grey matter is an a avatar, or interface between the physics and our consciousness.

Next question is, what is the physics of consciousness? Surely at some quantum (perhaps sub-quantum) level in a realm deemed too ethereal, therefore unreal there must be a mechanical foundation - a form by which things can interact to create and store our thoughts; those recordings made by our physical interface..

Hopefully that’s something we all come to understand a little better after death, rather than that library simply dissolving like tears in rain, as Roy Batty once said.

It’s challenging to imagine ways to interface with the physical world beyond our 5 senses, but no doubt there are multitudes of species, if not on earth, then elsewhere experiencing the gamut of wavelengths that is energy and radiation.

Maybe a good place to begin is dolphins; knowing their surroundings via sonar. Imagine that always present visualisation in your mind’s eye of the world around you being primarily a construct of sound waves instead of light waves.

There may be species out there that experience everything from the infrared to the ultra violet and even x-rays… imagine that - everything is visible.

Deeper still, could the sub-atomic field be somehow ‘visible’/tangible to another kind of interface? If so, how incomprehensible must that consciousness - that ‘library’ be to us. Like a God!

Great thread

a reply to: andy06shake

Space time is a mathematical model of theorem in physics making it theory on top of theory so all of those people that believe it as real? how long are ya'll gonna be floating and walking around on those two theories?

This entire planet and everything on it is in freefall falling towards the sun it's mass and angular momentum is in free fall towards a larger event horizon but larger masses etc are also in the same state falling towards theirs having a casual push pull effect in relation to spin, the earth won't go flat the elements like water will just pulled out into space like with the ringed planets fix the wobble and then the elements form more moons or planetoids as those things not water take on spin just like atomic particles have in relation to their bonds.

I don't know why it has to be presented as complicated... perhaps over complicating space etc makes it seem like if it is beyond graspable comprehension by the average person then it's ok to throw inordinate amounts of money at it?

But light and heat of the elements like copper burns green to reds etc so by looking into space color is the most confusing because some of the bodies are lit with "self" illumination and some of them are shined on making the color sort of moot like blue being both a star type(self illumination) and also a water body like neptune (not self illuminated).

However outside of earth's free fall one gets on a larger curve making it seem or appear as a passage of time... eventually however that curve will coursed with all in it and then start a transit and revolution and spin just like everything else out there in relation to that curve. until whatever it is that gets out there makes a complete orbit around the larger mass based on that curve such a thing as space time, it must make a complete revolution around the sun and transit through the other celestial objects. As a "projection" however everytime that body moves not in that spot to where it could start an orbit based on that escape velocity curve? Then there is no space time other than some relative clinging to the concept that has ceased to exist but yet still continues.

a reply to: Crowfoot

So what are you saying?

In physics and the natural sciences, space and time are pretty much the foundation of all theories.

We may not be able to see space-time but that does not mean we cannot infer its existence from our experiences.

You cannot see the air, or that it even matters that you know it exists, but without such we would have a hard time breathing.

Put it this way without the concept of space-time you will have rather a hard time attempting to explain life the universe and everything else.

a reply to: andy06shake

I'm saying the moon time is 28ish days the earth time is 365ish days that's space time

Those have a complete cyclic orbit around a larger mass. Until whatever it is sent out there makes one? It doesn't have any "space time" trying to calculate a curve into a complete circle without knowing it's centerpoint and call that space time? Ludacris. As it sort forms that fibonacci snail shell pattern... once it lands in space where it is going to sit? then call the sun the centre point and wait for it to come back around to where it first sat? It has no real space time as space is concerned. Other than projections of materials in degradation fuel etc.

a reply to: Crowfoot

You have lost me now Crowfoot.

The universe is somewhat larger than our earth, moon and star.

Celestial mechanics governing what we can see happening.

And as far as we can determine thus far space-time is the colour of our universe day comprising the very fabric of such from our perspective down here on Earth to the edge of the observable universe.