Question for those who are willing to ponder the possibility that we and the universe were created

a reply to: Randyvine2
We are on the same page believe me,it's the first book i ever read and before i could read my grandma was reading it to me every day. But it's the book that was made for the times and understanding that no longer exists. Sure you can draw parallels and gain lot of knowledge from it today but still faith must evolve like all else. And faith has nothing with organized religion and one particular book.
And we are moving away from the subject.

Oh please.....LOL
Don’t pretend you don’t understand what my words mean.
LOL!

a reply to: Direne

originally posted by: Direne
a reply to: PiratesCut

Belongs? As in you are a servant? A slave? A property?

No the word is family. We do his will and serve him willingly out of
love. As little children love their parents. That's where we all belong.

You can keep that attitude of revolution against your only reason for
existence but don't try to sound like you're the smart one for doing so.
Because you aren't even close to smart.

a reply to: xandback

TextWe are on the same page believe me,it's the first book i ever read and before i could read my grandma was reading it to me every day. But it's the book that was made for the times and understanding that no longer exists. Sure you can draw parallels and gain lot of knowledge from it today but still faith must evolve like all else. And faith has nothing with organized religion and one particular book.
And we are moving away from the subject.

May you find truth my good man

a reply to: TzarChasm

A truly hyper intelligent and omnipotent force of cosmic wisdom and engineering would have delivered the Bible to society in Kindle format instead of waiting for 20th century scientists to invent it. And that Kindle device would have included modern formulas and technology, such as explaining electricity and how to generate and distribute it.

Why?

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: Randyvine2

A truly hyper intelligent and omnipotent force of cosmic wisdom and engineering would have delivered the Bible to society in Kindle format instead of waiting for 20th century scientists to invent it. And that Kindle device would have included modern formulas and technology, such as explaining electricity and how to generate and distribute it.

You're acting as though the meaning of life is technological advancement. Thats a naive perspective. Your beloved technology is not going to save you.

This is not to say technology in and of itself is wrong, instead it is the idolization of these man-made inventions as our savior which begins to degrade the human condition.

Consider the pollution that your beloved technology has caused, rendering most of the waterways undrinkable for humans, or the harboring of infectious diseases that thrive only in poorly sanitized cities. Even medical advancement is mostly only treating diseases that emerged due to technological "advancement"... obesity would surely be lower without processed foods, tooth decay would be nearly non-existent without processed sugars, cancer would be much less prevalent if the many known artificially produced carcinogens weren't ubiquitous in our food and various consumer products.

So no, God's goal was not to accelerate technological advancement so we could sit on the couch all day and watch garbage tv.

a reply to: Randyvine2

Why not?

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: Randyvine2

A truly hyper intelligent and omnipotent force of cosmic wisdom and engineering would have delivered the Bible to society in Kindle format instead of waiting for 20th century scientists to invent it. And that Kindle device would have included modern formulas and technology, such as explaining electricity and how to generate and distribute it.

You're acting as though the meaning of life is technological advancement. Thats a naive perspective. Your beloved technology is not going to save you.

This is not to say technology in and of itself is wrong, instead it is the idolization of these man-made inventions as our savior which begins to degrade the human condition.

Consider the pollution that your beloved technology has caused, rendering most of the waterways undrinkable for humans, or the harboring of infectious diseases that thrive only in poorly sanitized cities. Even medical advancement is mostly only treating diseases that emerged due to technological "advancement"... obesity would surely be lower without processed foods, tooth decay would be nearly non-existent without processed sugars, cancer would be much less prevalent if the many known artificially produced carcinogens weren't ubiquitous in our food and various consumer products.

So no, God's goal was not to accelerate technological advancement so we could sit on the couch all day and watch garbage tv.

I'm speaking (typing) as though the purpose of a divine architect creating a planet and a sentient species to nurture and maintain it, is for the good of the species. That's the general principle is some form of utopia. On the flip side, modern civilization carries with it the connotation that the initial utopia was in fact NOT a utopia at all, but a privatized paradise only temporarily enjoyed by servants whose presence was utilitarian at best.

a reply to: whereislogic

Great thread Whereislogic.

It’s interesting that the first verse, “In the beginning God made the heavens and the earth” holds so much information.

Beginning = Time
Heavens = Space
Earth = Matter

As for the age that the universe appears to be.

Adam, Eve, the animals, trees, etc. were all created mature and appeared to be a certain age. The laws and purposes that everything had to follow moving forward would also be visible looking backwards even though they were created mature in a short period of time. Same with the universe.

As for the age and amount of translations that the Bible has gone through.

The Creator of the Universe really wouldn’t have much trouble maintaining His message throughout the years and translations.

a reply to: Randyvine2

No the word is family

Family... I see. As in family. But your god has no family, no? What happened to his wife? Missing? See, little children do not love their parents by design, neither by force, no by command. They love them if they love themselves. They love their parents as(and not if) their parent love them. Love is not based on obedience. And certainly not on threats and terror.

Go tell this to your god. Now.

originally posted by: Direne

Family... I see. As in family. But your god has no family, no? What happened to his wife? Missing?

They're not missing they're just lost at the moment. Like a bride that has strayed away from their husband, so too are the lost people of Israel to our God. This is literally all talked about in the Bible.

See, little children do not love their parents by design, neither by force, no by command. They love them if they love themselves. They love their parents as(and not if) their parent love them. Love is not based on obedience. And certainly not on threats and terror.

Jesus had the most merciful law ever implemented by any philosopher or king in the history of forever. Turn the other cheek to those who hurt you, forgive anyone who is sorry regardless of the severity of the offense, do not even think about promiscuous affairs, give to the poor, reconcile with people you have wronged, etc, etc. So no I don't see where Jesus was threatening or forcing us, he was simply telling us the behaviors that will allow our souls to see clearly again. He described "hell" as a place of wheeping and gnashing of teeth, which essentially means arguing and suffering. In other words, The extent of the hellish nature you will experience is entirely self-imposed due to your stubbornness. God wants all souls to be reconciled so that the bridge and groom are together again, but free will is a must so it remains as your choice up to the very end, as exemplified by the two on either side of Jesus's cross

Go tell this to your god. Now.

Just another bull-headed mind that thinks they've out-smarted the Creator and founder of the universe.. so silly. You don't even know what you are and you're arrogantly making demands of other matters that you also don't understand.

Arguing over anything to do with God or gods, or attempting to prove they exist is a pointless endeavor. To each their own. But there's only one absolute truth, and that is we are alive at this point in time, and one day won't be, and it won't confirm or prove anything. So live and let live on such topics.

originally posted by: cooperton

...the Creator and founder of the universe...

Has a rap sheet including but not limited to the below, and he's your god, role model and moral compass?
I'd be ashamed to be associated with anyone involved in any of those things.

You know who else had a god like that? The Manson Family. Turns out following a sadomasochistic, misogynistic leader, is not such a great idea in the end.

God also orders the destruction of 60 cities so that the Israelites can live there. He orders the killing of all the men, women, and children of each city, and the looting of all of value (Deuteronomy 3). He orders another attack and the killing of all the living creatures of the city: men and women, young, and old, as well as oxen sheep, and asses (Joshua 6). In Judges 21 He orders the murder of all the people of Jabesh-gilead, except for the virgin girls who were taken to be forcibly raped and married. When they wanted more virgins, God told them to hide alongside the road and when they saw a girl they liked, kidnap her and forcibly rape her and make her your wife!

Just about every other page in the Old Testament has God killing somebody! In 2 Kings 10:18-27, God orders the murder of all the worshipers of a different god in their very own church! In total God kills 371,186 people directly and orders another 1,862,265 people murdered.

The God of the Bible also allows slavery, including selling your own daughter as a sex slave (Exodus 21:1-11), child abuse (Judges 11:29-40 & Isaiah 13:16), and bashing babies against rocks (Hosea 13:16 & Psalms 137:9).

originally posted by: Kreeate
[In Judges 21 He orders the murder of all the people of Jabesh-gilead, except for the virgin girls who were taken to be taken as wives

Did you care to look into the context of any of these? First off, Jesus never ordered the killing of anyone. Yahweh on the other hand had to deliver justice and keep peace on earth, whereas Jesus had a transcendent Kingdom and therefor had no need to fight for earth.

Regardless, Jabesh-Gilead was a colony that had its lineage from the fallen angels. These defiant forces were wreaking havoc on the earth. So carcinogenic that a flood had to wipe them out during the time of Noah in order for the earth to persist. So yeah i could see why God wanted no trace of this destructive colony to be left on the earth.

Imagine Giga-Hitler and then defending him and wanting him to remain on earth so your warped ideas of truth and justice can be perpetuated. That's essentially what you're arguing. There will be people like you a hundred years from now arguing that it was cruel that the Allied powers eradicated Germany's global power.

a reply to: Direne

Family... I see. As in family. But your god has no family, no? What happened to his wife? Missing? See, little children do not love their parents by design, neither by force, no by command. They love them if they love themselves. They love their parents as(and not if) their parent love them. Love is not based on obedience. And certainly not on threats and terror.

Your whole premise is drenched in hypocrisy regarding the morality of
creativity. No one not even a psychopath creates to displease the self.
When you create something (not sure you ever have) and it displeases
you? Wouldn't you tear it all down and try again until it pleases you?

Or would you cave to your creations will and just let it exist how ever
it chose to until it finally made you servant to it? That's the insanity
you are asking God to endure. That's your insanity and frankly it's
juvenile.

a reply to: strongfp

Arguing over anything to do with God or gods, or attempting to prove they exist is a pointless endeavor. To each their own. But there's only one absolute truth, and that is we are alive at this point in time, and one day won't be, and it won't confirm or prove anything. So live and let live on such topics.

There is only one absolute truth so you're half right.

Jesus Christ is the absolute truth and there really is nothing better.



He only offers happiness hope family forgiveness honor love comfort
and victory to eternal life. And many of us have not understood the
wickedness it takes to brew hate for him. People hate him even today
and not one can explain why with good reasoning.

That's just weird.

a reply to: Randyvine2

It's one thing to suggest an all powerful "god" but to worship a historical figure is arguable.
Jesus in any context has been historically exaggerated by the catholic church. A mythology based on the fall of the Roman empire. Nothing more.
God's don't have human children. Not even in a mythological sense. Jesus was also Jewish, and again the catholic church tried their hardest to distinguish and separate him from that as hard as they could.

a reply to: strongfp

Rome crucified him in utter obscurity to history as it
was with every other person Rome crucified. Only one
came to be considered their God over even their Caesar.

Christianity consumed the empire that put him to death
with in three hundred years. His very name has the power
to save a Vietnam vet on his death bed addicted to heroin.

God thru his blood hasn't just made our redemption possible he
made the easiest thing in the world. So those who reject him
will be seen by all the Heavens and everyone who ever lived as having
no excuse for doing so. There simply is no life without he who
walked out of that tomb and caused an entire Roman guard to flee.

Jesus Christ needs no exaggeration. You can wait and see or seek
him now. I'm extremely happy with my choice friend. Faith in any
one or anything else is nothing. Not preaching just witnessing as
I will continue to do forever. Come what may.

originally posted by: strongfp

A mythology based on the fall of the Roman empire. Nothing more.

Where could you have possibly gotten this idea? Why would Rome eventually adopt Christianity as it's official religion if it was merely a mythology about its own downfall?? Total nonsense.

God's don't have human children. Not even in a mythological sense.

The human vessel is the way that God manifests on the material plane. That's what it means that our bodies are made in the semblance (image) of God

a reply to: Randyvine2

redemption possible

Redemption? There is no redemption for you: you were given a garden to work it and keep it, yet you ruined it. And what do you offer us to calm our wrath? The sacrifice of a poor carpenter? You think that will redeem you? Better for you to go back to whatever is left of our garden and restore it, lest we turn your entire planet into a desert.

originally posted by: whereislogic
For those who are willing to ponder the possibility that it is a fact/certainty that we, the earth, life on earth and the universe were created by someone who knew what he was doing and why in this specific way, I have a question.

Why do you use "fact/certainty" when you asking to "ponder the possibility"? Seems like any debate is over before it starts...

So you've heard all the arguments related to our earth being specifically designed to be able to support specifically the type of life we find on earth, looked at all the evidence related to the fine-tuning of our universe and solar system so that specifically on earth everything is so ordered that this type of life can flourish and live. Had a good openminded look at topics such as the Privileged Planet, as discussed in that book and those for example talking about it on the usual Intelligent Design websites or perhaps you were even willing to have a look at some of the usual Watchtower Online Library links I've used in the past regarding the topic of for example:

Ever heard of cause and effect? You suggest life is here because God made the planet for life, but it could just as easily be we are here because this type of planet allows it. As we find life in other places it kind of blows the whole God made the planet for life theory.