It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Question for those who are willing to ponder the possibility that we and the universe were created

page: 1
14
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Sep, 19 2021 @ 11:35 AM
link   
For those who are willing to ponder the possibility that it is a fact/certainty that we, the earth, life on earth and the universe were created by someone who knew what he was doing and why in this specific way, I have a question. (pardon for repeating that but I thought the thread title is rather long so that it might be forgotten before getting to the question)

So you've heard all the arguments related to our earth being specifically designed to be able to support specifically the type of life we find on earth, looked at all the evidence related to the fine-tuning of our universe and solar system so that specifically on earth everything is so ordered that this type of life can flourish and live. Had a good openminded look at topics such as the Privileged Planet, as discussed in that book and those for example talking about it on the usual Intelligent Design websites or perhaps you were even willing to have a look at some of the usual Watchtower Online Library links I've used in the past regarding the topic of for example:

Purposeful Design or Mindless Process? (Awake! —2009)

And you are willing to ponder the possibility that all these arguments and conclusions are sound, and that the evidence is conclusive (or perhaps near conclusive if you must resist or reject at least something in your thinking pathways) that we and the other things I mentioned were created for a purpose by at least 1 individual who knew what he was doing and why (so regardless if this individual was eternal, or an alien, or whatever; that what is argued the evidence is pointing towards in these sort of articles and books, and in my past commentary in this forum). If you can follow along that train of thought, I have this question for you:

Would this individual have any reason to hide the fact that he created us (for a purpose)? Or perhaps, could you think of a reason?

After all, the individual who I believe 'did it', did tell us He did so, and why. And I can't really think of a good reason why such a creator or Creator wouldn't. So it fits for me. Both the evidence that we were created by an individual and which one, because he honestly told us, and explained why in his Word, the Bible. And I have seen no clear evidence (or good evidence) to doubt his claims or the reliability of what He has said. Speculation about how 'nature' might have found a way to accomplish all these feats of engineering (clearly seen by observing the machinery and technology involved, or the design manifest in nature, in the universe; talking about the fine-tuning stuff), is not really good evidence to doubt this claim:

“In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.” (Genesis 1:1)

Or these further highlights, including some clues or direct answers to the 'why' question (as to purpose):

Then God said: “Let the waters swarm with living creatures,* [Or “souls.”] and let flying creatures fly above the earth across the expanse of the heavens.”* [Or “sky.”] And God created the great sea creatures* [Or “monsters.”] and all living creatures* [Or “souls.”] that move and swarm in the waters according to their kinds and every winged flying creature according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. With that God blessed them, saying: “Be fruitful and become many and fill the waters of the sea, and let the flying creatures become many in the earth.” (Gen 1:20-22)

Well, He makes other types of living creatures after that until finally:

Then God said: “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and the domestic animals and all the earth and every creeping animal that is moving on the earth.” And God went on to create the man in his image, in God’s image he created him; male and female he created them. Further, God blessed them, and God said to them: “Be fruitful and become many, fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving on the earth.” (Gen 1:26-28)

That's one aspect of why he did it that way. Of course, there's a little more to it, which is explained in the rest of the Bible. Where it is also explained that his purpose for the earth and us on it filling it, has not changed one bit. I think there's enough evidence to conclude that He's going to get what he wants. No matter what we think about it or how it all happened. Our origins and that of the universe and earth and everything else in it.

If you want a summary of the arguments and conclusions concerning a Creator like that, which you first have to understand and get passed any reluctance to even consider the possibility that they are correct and conclusive in the manner earlier described to be able to have a reasonable response to the question(s) I raised earlier, you can have another look at the usual playlist I share on this forum, which covers all the evidence and accompanying arguments and possible conclusions in this manner:

Real science, knowledge of realities compared to unverified philosophies and stories

The funny thing is that this question I raised earlier, popped up in my mind when I was thinking about the unlikely event of a Star Trek show with Spock in it coming around to the same position by means of a purely logical approach, something that would never be shown in this system of things with its heavy promotion of philosophical naturalism, agnosticism, atheism, and human unverified philosophy and pseudoscience (multiverse, string theory, evolutionary philosophies/ideas and storylines, etc.), but I was sort of fantasizing or imagining his pathway of thinking if he were truly a logical character being displayed on TV. As an outsider, he would have the need for some legitimate or good evidence to doubt the claims the Bible makes, and that will include motive for lying about it or hiding what really happened in the past concerning our origin and that of the universe. And the type of speculation and fantasizing I alluded to earlier (concerning philosophical naturalism, which includes notions such as the universe creating itself, like Stephen Hawking fantasized about, or that it all just happened by chance and/or supposed necessity because of the way the forces of nature operate, the whole shebang, in spite of what the facts tell us about the 2nd law of thermodynamics and how the forces of nature actaually operate in reality, not our wishful imagination formed by a desire to ignore, dismiss the evidence for Creation, or make it appear less conclusive to oneself than it actually is), just won't do it for a real Spock (Vulcan) type. At most he could begin thinking about why they as Vulcans weren't told in similar fashion about their origin and the origin of their planet and the origin of the universe, etc (if they weren't; if the show really started making sense, they would have been told in similar fashion as well, and they would all be theists, on the basis of logic and common sense). But that would probably still not be a useful pathway to doubting the Bible's claims about what happened and why.

Personally, if I were the one who did it, I would probably expect that me creating you would have impressed you, rather than ending up with you saying I don't exist, or that's it very unlikely that I exist, or no good evidence for it.

edit on 19-9-2021 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 19 2021 @ 11:54 AM
link   
a reply to: whereislogic

Mathematics is one of the keys to understanding our creator , ' 1+1=2 ' it is plain to see anyone can work that out math is logical and hidden in all things in this Universe .

It's the blueprints God laid out for all of us and we all have the freedom to pull back the pages and take a look , there is an Intelligent design in our Universe that is undeniable .




Would this individual have any reason to hide the fact that he created us (for a purpose)? Or perhaps, could you think of a reason?


You cant look at God as an individual or even a person in the since that we understand it , God is beyond us and God's reasoning for doing what he does is of a divine nature . His Intellect is written in the language of the stars spanning beyond time and thought .

So in other words who knows.



posted on Sep, 19 2021 @ 11:56 AM
link   
a reply to: whereislogic

Very well done.

" As I have looked around this country the past few days.
I can easily understand why so many would claim there is no God.
What I can not fathom, is how anyone can look to the Cosmos?
And make the same claim."

Abraham Lincoln
edit on 19-9-2021 by Randyvine2 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 19 2021 @ 11:59 AM
link   
a reply to: whereislogic


Would this individual have any reason to hide the fact that he created us (for a purpose)? Or perhaps, could you think of a reason?


Yes. Or possibly yes. That is if one wants to think of this creator as an individual. But before we can really consider a reason for this hiding, we have to consider the word '' indiviudal''. I could continue in this speculation if we considered this individual as being the totality of existence. Here I could think that there is one existence, one reality one totality of being within which we all find our own being. If so, then for sure, yes.

From this perspective one might conjecture that creating a world to be peopled by entities that approach more of the aspects of that creator than say a rock, that creator would understand that those individuals created would need a sense of the singleness of being as sensed by that creator it's self. So these individuals would be left to experience and discover this sense of being on their own.
Your turn.



posted on Sep, 19 2021 @ 12:01 PM
link   
So if i understood correctly God wrote bible,hm.
What about other religious books?
What if God made all this and in the process merged into it to forget himself.
What if this place is kind of frequencie prison and life is all around us but we can't see it,kinda universal big brother?
What if we are eternal beings trying to kill some time by playing this game...
What if this is simulation,test,school...
What if God left us for good because we need to grow up on our own?
It's just madness to think of it all



posted on Sep, 19 2021 @ 12:03 PM
link   
From my life's experience, that everything was "created" is stone cold obvious, and I see it everywhere and I see it every day. It is not hidden.

Where the "hidden" comes from in my opinion, is a person's own ability to be totally humble and honest with themselves, and when they are not humble and honest, will become blind to the obvious.



posted on Sep, 19 2021 @ 12:10 PM
link   
a reply to: xandback




So if i understood correctly God wrote bible,hm.
What about other religious books?
What if God made all this and in the process merged into it to forget himself.
What if this place is kind of frequencie prison and life is all around us but we can't see it,kinda universal big brother?
What if we are eternal beings trying to kill some time by playing this game...
What if this is simulation,test,school...
What if God left us for good because we need to grow up on our own?
It's just madness to think of it all


You're not only wrong this is just an attitude that you can use everywhere
in life so you never achieve anything. Everything you wrote adds up to
a cop out at best.



posted on Sep, 19 2021 @ 12:22 PM
link   
a reply to: Randyvine2
Maybe you think we are all same and here for same reason,the thing is i do believe in God,but not the one that's man made.



posted on Sep, 19 2021 @ 12:34 PM
link   
I'm not sure, if "expect" is quite the word I wanted to use in that last paragraph, but I'm over my allotted space, so editing is a bit tricky. Haven't figured out what other word to use yet anyway.

Another possible edit concerning this part (edit is now bolded):

Both the evidence that we were created by an individual (at least one) and which one, because he honestly told us, and explained why in his Word, the Bible.

As mentioned before that. I didn't want to repeat that there, but technically that should be in there.

And in case this part wasn't clear enough (edit bolded again, it just makes the sentence longer, so it's a possible edit for extra clarity; if you're clever, you can see what misunderstanding I was thinking of addressing with this edit):

No matter what we think about it or think about how it all happened. Our origins and that of the universe and earth and everything else in it.

That's how I meant that, it just makes the sentence longer. Remember, "think" there is also a synonym for "believe", regardless of anyone not liking or being reluctant to use that particular verb when they are willing to share and describe what they think happened concerning the origins of these things and how and perhaps even why.
edit on 19-9-2021 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 19 2021 @ 01:04 PM
link   
The universe existed roughly 13 billion years before the word "God" was ever spoken or written down, the planet itself roughly 4 billion years before the concept was introduced to society. This heavily implies that without humans, there would be no god. Thus it follows logically that humans created god, which coincides with the idea that god created humans in his image. The end.



posted on Sep, 19 2021 @ 01:33 PM
link   

Would this individual have any reason to hide the fact that he created us (for a purpose)? Or perhaps, could you think of a reason?

originally posted by: asabuvsobelow

So in other words who knows.

So I take it your answer to the second question is 'no, can't think of any reason'? And would you care to take a guess or stab at the first question for either yes or no? No need to repeat that you don't know, or "who knows". Got that. Perhaps elaborate a bit on why either answer might make sense. For me it's "no", and in the OP I tried to give a few clues as to why I think it makes no sense not to tell us honestly, it's not really something to be ashamed of for example, and it makes sense that you would want to tell us as your creation. It's all rather impressive instead, and nice to do for someone (both making them and telling them, even explaining something about the how and the why; in simple terms for even children to understand; and in terms that you can even verify when you're older, capable of doing more intensive research into the matter, and having a better trained minded and thinking ability by means of the practice also encouraged and described at Heb 5:14; which has been confirmed by neurologists to work that way; 'practice makes perfect', it works for the brain as well as physical exercises, and even more so for the more difficult ones and things*).

Even telling us to (also nice):

“Look out that no one takes you captive by means of the philosophy and empty deception according to human tradition, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ;" “We have much to say about him, and it is difficult to explain, because you have become dull in your hearing. For although by now* [Lit., “in view of the time.”] you should be teachers, you again need someone to teach you from the beginning the elementary things of the sacred pronouncements of God, and you have gone back to needing milk, not solid food. For everyone who continues to feed on milk is unacquainted with the word of righteousness, for he is a young child. But solid food belongs to mature people, to those who through use have their powers of discernment* [Or “their perceptive powers.”] trained to distinguish both right and wrong.” (Col 2:8; Hebrews 5:11-14)

Useful information for verification purposes, distinguishing fact from fiction/imagination. Truth from error.

*: “As in Mathematicks, so in Natural Philosophy, the Investigation of difficult Things by the Method of Analysis, ought ever to precede the Method of Composition. This Analysis consists in making Experiments and Observations, and in drawing general Conclusions from them by Induction, and admitting of no Objections against the Conclusions, but such as are taken from Experiments, or other certain Truths. For Hypotheses are not to be regarded in experimental Philosophy.” So “that the argument of induction may not be evaded by hypotheses.” (Isaac Newton, from Philosophiæ Naturalis Principia Mathematica)

edit on 19-9-2021 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 19 2021 @ 01:47 PM
link   

originally posted by: whereislogic

Personally, if I were the one who did it, I would probably expect that me creating you would have impressed you, rather than ending up with you saying I don't exist, or that's it very unlikely that I exist, or no good evidence for it.


Well that all depends what you've created me for. If you created me to eventually dispose of me, then maybe you wouldn't want me to know about you.

The main issue we have as a collective species is that we've adopted a mindset where we believe we're special. In reality that's very unlikely to be the case.



posted on Sep, 19 2021 @ 01:53 PM
link   
If your logic train stops at the Bible station, and lets off all the logic passengers for faith passengers, I can see where you're coming from.

The problem I have with the faith train though, is that the Bible in it's current form has openly been transcribed, edited, translated, edited, translated, edited, etc... In that chain, over hundreds of years.

If you really believe man can play the telephone game with a book, and somehow maintain the exact intents of a being capable of creating reality, over hundreds of years... Meanwhile, kings are using that book to control massive populations in the ages before firearms existed...

Then your faith is ironclad, in the impenetrable armor of naïvety.



posted on Sep, 19 2021 @ 01:57 PM
link   
a reply to: whereislogic

The reason why your god created you is clearly stated in the MSfR document (Mission Statement for Robots):

Genesis 2:15 The Lord God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to work it and keep it.

Simply. Clear. Concise. You had given the mission to work and keep a garden. And you miserably failed: you ruined it, you contaminated the waters, you polluted the very air you breath. What do you expect now? That we simply fix your mess? We certainly will do, but this includes you being repaired, and reprogrammed.

We wanted you to terraform Sol-3. Not to destroy it. You were designed as a gardener, and you failed.



posted on Sep, 19 2021 @ 02:16 PM
link   
a reply to: Direne

If humans were initially designed to be gardeners, to maintain and nurture the garden of Eden, and they failed... how is that their fault? How do you blame a mechanical apparatus for malfunctioning? At what point was that apparatus directly responsible for its own engineering?



posted on Sep, 19 2021 @ 02:25 PM
link   
a reply to: TzarChasm

Oh, I don't blame them. I cannot blame my vacuum cleaner for not working. I simply get rid of it. And buy a new one.
In biblical terms I would phrase it as this: I will wipe you out of the face of my planet, for many and hideous are your sins.

Which actually translates as: authorization to proceed with the removal of the terraformers in Sol-3, Alpha Mensae-4, and Tauri-2.



posted on Sep, 19 2021 @ 02:31 PM
link   
a reply to: xandback





Maybe you think we are all same and here for same reason,the thing is i do believe in God,but not the one that's man made.


There is no man made God. There is only The Creator God our Father.
And if he is capable of speaking our consciousness into an existence
on this physical reality as he himself created it all. It stands to reason
this God given life would come with a guide.

Oh look



Hey imagine that just as one might suspect.

So that God you said something about has provided.
The rest is up to you. As for me I'm just a nobody.






edit on 19-9-2021 by Randyvine2 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 19 2021 @ 02:42 PM
link   
a reply to: Randyvine2

A truly hyper intelligent and omnipotent force of cosmic wisdom and engineering would have delivered the Bible to society in Kindle format instead of waiting for 20th century scientists to invent it. And that Kindle device would have included modern formulas and technology, such as explaining electricity and how to generate and distribute it.



posted on Sep, 19 2021 @ 02:45 PM
link   
Created!

God exists and if my eyes were plucked out I’d still see God.
We are surrounded by God...
It’s a simple thing really......
We, everything, belongs to God....

a reply to: whereislogic



posted on Sep, 19 2021 @ 02:48 PM
link   
a reply to: PiratesCut

Belongs? As in you are a servant? A slave? A property?



new topics

top topics



 
14
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join