Will it come down to this, you shoplift, we shoot

I know this sounds barbaric, but my God, this crapolla is getting way out of hand. Just to let you know, we don't do the shooting here in this country, but the elderly shoplifting case are skyrocketing. Here they call in the family members and I think they pay the fine for the elderly.

But in the States, this stuff has gotten out of hand.

www.msn.com...


Video of shoplifters stealing thousands of dollars worth of electrical wires from a Lowe’s store in Oregon has angered local residents.


"It was so blatant, that’s what riled me up," Keizer, Oregon, resident Andrew Sullivan, who filmed the incident, told the Keizer Times. "They were just strolling through the parking lot, just riding the carts."

The incident unfolded in broad daylight on Aug 25, with the video showing two men pushing shopping carts loaded with electric wire walking out of the Lowe’s doors as two employees are helpless to stop them.

I have been in business since 1982. I run an electrical contractor service, and I have been burgled many times over the years. Most of the times the cost is less than the deductible, so it comes out of my pocket. Not being able to catch these sneaky scum has built up a lot of frustration, I would hate to take it all out on a couple of guys. Chances are yes probably, I would shoot. I am usually armed.

Example : the alarm went off at the shop one night, my wife and I were on our way home from a late dinner when I got the text. I was 5 minutes away. I blocked the front gate with my truck. Alone I got out with a flashlight and my pistol, my wife said ,”what if someone else come out ?” My answer, “ you got a gun, if anyone comes out, that’s not me. Kill them.”

This is an example of what busines owners face on a daily basis. Now add to that the COVID bull sh!t. If anyone showed any symptoms, and they get tested and two weeks off with pay while in self quarantine. That destroyed any project schedule. With 50 employees the cost is staggering.

We are short staffed, the government appears to pay people to stay at home, add in the silly defund the police movement. That’s a lot of frustration.

"Copeland said the men would likely face fines, citations and then be released.

"Once you’ve stolen from Lowe's once and know they can't stop you, there’s no real consequence," Copeland said, noting employees at many chain stores aren’t allowed to stop shoplifters. "Second thing is, these people know they can’t go to jail."

Sounds like they found a loophole. Will it come down to shooting them? No...

Just make them pay heavy fines and repayement of stolen goods.

But if this is common, then maybe police arent doing their job. Why would you risk getting your license plate recorded, tracked down by police, and given a court date that results in paying everything back and fines.

So either cops aren't trying to seriously investigate this, or courts have no laws for repaying stolen goods ect..

Shooting someone for petty thief is too extreme. Maybe it's time to limit expensive merchandise not locked in a cage.

originally posted by: Nickn3
Now add to that the COVID bull sh!t. If anyone showed any symptoms, and they get tested and two weeks off with pay while in self quarantine. That destroyed any project schedule. With 50 employees the cost is staggering.

What law(s) require you to give them paid quarantine time off?

Whichever entity (Local? State? Federal?) issued this law must pay the costs.

Otherwise it is a blatant violation of the takings clause of the 5th amendment.

We are short staffed, the government appears to pay people to stay at home,

Exactly, so let them pay for your employees paid quarantine leave.

originally posted by: Echo007
Shooting someone for petty thief is too extreme.

Ummm... no, allowing people to loot and pillage without consequence is what is too extreme.

Auto parts stores have the right business model. Tell the guy behind the counter what you need and he grabs it for you. None of this letting the customer pocket a dozen spark plugs or snag an alternator by the front door.

Same thing happens in jewelry stores and gun shops too, if you notice.

originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: Echo007
Shooting someone for petty thief is too extreme.

Ummm... no, allowing people to loot and pillage without consequence is what is too extreme.

Depends if you equate some electrical wire to be worth more than a human life and the lives of the people in their families.

I know alot of of americans put no value on human life.

To me, theft is probably more infuriating than murder (almost). Straight up.

But let's be smart here, people! The use of deadly force against someone who does not pose an imminent threat of grave bodily harm and/or death to one's self or others in the immediate vicinity is a federal crime. Period. And, you will be prosecuted (and likely convicted, in today's clown world). If you are convicted, you will do time, in a federal detention facility.

Like it or not, those are the rules.

Be smart...be safe!

originally posted by: Nexttimemaybe

originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: Echo007
Shooting someone for petty thief is too extreme.

Ummm... no, allowing people to loot and pillage without consequence is what is too extreme.

Depends if you equate some electrical wire to be worth more than a human life and the lives of the people in their families.

I know alot of of americans put no value on human life.

Who takes a hit to the wallet? The store owner and eventually the PAYING customers. Who benefits from the stolen goods? The thief. People that steal their life has zero value.

a reply to: Nexttimemaybe
Unless they are not born yet...

originally posted by: Nexttimemaybe
Depends if you equate some electrical wire to be worth more than a human life and the lives of the people in their families.

I know alot of of americans put no value on human life.

You are woefully uninformed.

If people don't want to be shot, then they should respect the private property Rights of others.

Some people believe there is a difference between stealing from a large company, and stealing from a small Mom-n-Pop business, or an individual. There really isn't.

That property being stolen represents the blood, sweat and tears of someone. It is much easier to see it when the property belongs to an individual, or even a small business owner, but the same thing applies even to large businesses.

If people don't want to get shot, they should respect the private property Rights of others.

a reply to: musicismagic

If we don't punish people for small crimes now, then eventually, small crimes will be met with capital punishment.

You cannot keep taking what isn't yours.

That is barbaric. Society would be better off with individuals like these gone.

a reply to: tanstaafl

Yep, the pregnant shipowner should have more right to protect a few tidbits of merchandise by killing the thief than she does her own body from pregnancy complications.

I'm probably going to be in the minority here, but...

It first depends on where it is. We're talking about a store, which would be in a more urban area. Also, it would depend on the value of the goods taken, as well as how brazen the theft is. It's one thing for a kid to pocket a trinket and try to walk out, but quite another for someone to fill a buggy and dare anyone to stop them.

I would take that dare.

I doubt I would shoot first and ask questions later, but I would confront them physically, and I would be armed. At the first sign of potential danger to me, yeah, I would drop 'em. In their tracks. Without hesitation.

That might sound extreme to some, but I don't think so. It's not just merchandise or money they are taking. That's my living, the way I feed my family. An attempt to steal from me is an attempt to starve my family, and when that attempt becomes so brazen as in this example, one cannot allow it to stand without inviting everyone who wants what I have to also take it. So, when presented with a choice between letting some fool take food off my family's table or standing up to them, I'll stand.

I can understand not wanting an employee to do the same. They do not have the vested stake in the stolen goods that the owner has, and the chances of them making a bad decision are too high for me to be comfortable with. I expect an employee to protect themselves, but their job during a theft is to alert the police as soon as possible. The problem is that the owner is not always there... in many cases never there, where large chain stores are concerned.

I don't have an answer to that, but then again, i don't think that was the premise of the thread.

Now, let me add a warning: that's what I would do in a business setting. Home is different. I see someone sneaking around my home, it's shoot first and ask questions later. I had a friend recently who was trying to find some firewood to put away for winter. Well, I just happened to have an old hickory tree that was leaning badly back behind my shop, and I get more firewood than I can burn in the shop from just what falls naturally. So I told him he could have that tree. About a week later, I hear machinery running in that area. I circle around and come out of the woodline right behind my friend, with serious firepower at the ready.

No, I didn't shoot him... that's what we call "gun control" around here: staying in control of your gun. However, I did scare the heck out of him! I simply asked him, next time, knock on the door and let me know you're there. Won't be any problem that way.

We used to consider that just simple common sense: if you are on someone else's place, you let them know. Just walk up to the front door and knock... that way, they won't mistake you for a criminal. Unfortunately, I am seeing more and more people, people who should know all this, ignoring that one simple rule. And it's dangerous to do so. I am not the only one who will not hesitate to plug someone sneaking around their home.

But back to the actual topic... in a store setting? Confront while armed, defend if necessary. Employees excepted, owner only.

TheRedneck

a reply to: Echo007

Hmmm, let's blame the victim here a bit shall we? I know where that type of argument doesn't fly, so why should it fly in this circumstance?

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: Nexttimemaybe
Unless they are not born yet...

True, once they have been born they dont care.

As demonstrated above there are alot of extremists that visit this website.

To be expected given some of the subject matters discussed I guess.

Ironically, one thing this world needs less of is extremists.

a reply to: Nexttimemaybe

Depends if you equate some electrical wire to be worth more than a human life and the lives of the people in their families.

It's not just about electrical wire. It's about my safety and the safety of my family.

If I allow someone to brazenly steal what's mine, that will encourage others to do the same. That's how I feed my family. If someone is trying to stop me from feeding my family, they are literally trying to kill me and my family. So I cannot simply look the other way.

I know what you're probably going to say: that's what the police are for. No, it's not. The police are there primarily to clean up the mess afterwards, and to handle the infraction if and when they catch it in progress. Unfortunately, criminals are capable of seeing if there are police around and they typically do not commit crimes when they are.

There is also the probability that a criminal, when confronted, will escalate the situation. After all, they've already broken the law, so what's one more infraction? The thief who is never faced with consequences will, more often than not, graduate to hurting or killing others before all is said and done. When that happens, what are people supposed to do then? Is a criminal's life worth more than that of a victim?

I say no. The one defending is not the one devaluing life. The criminal did that by choosing to commit a crime and causing the confrontation.

I know alot of of americans put no value on human life.

Unfortunately, that is true. Criminals do not put a value on human life. Those who defend themselves do value human life... their human life.

TheRedneck

a reply to: Nexttimemaybe

There are a lot of people all over the world that put no value on human life. Not just in America. We have some, but for the most part we value life. That doesn't mean all lives have the same value. Pedophiles, human traffickers, people who support themselves by victimizing others, serial criminals, those who prey on the helpless, etc. Not worth a damn thing to me. Nothing. A kid stealing a candy bar from a convenience store, different story. But that kid needs to get smacked upside the head to make sure he knows what he did was wrong and there are consequences for his actions. The more severe the actions, the more severe the consequences.

And that is where we went wrong in this country. We started ignoring the smaller crimes in favor of the bigger ones. Some of us knew that letting people get away with the little crimes only makes them bolder and eventually they will move on to bigger crimes. A ten year old kid might steal a candy bar because at ten, that candy bar is everything he wants or needs. That same kid at fifteen isn't stealing candy bars any more. In Chicago that same kid at fifteen is committing armed robbery and carjacking. Maybe smacking the crap out of him when he was ten was a good idea...

a reply to: Hypntick

Sure, blame the victim,
If the shopkeeper didn't want his goods to be heisted he should have made it more difficult for someone to run off with them, had better security...
Just like if the women didn't want die in childbirth or have her body permanently damaged she should have kept her legs crossed.