Help me understand humans.

I work with animals and very few people. Often i am perplexed by the workings of other people's minds because i have little interaction with people outside my immediate family and this site and i would appreciate some insight into how this person reached the conclusions they did regarding my comment....So. I commented this...

See then you completely misunderstand me. This is where we are having the disconnect. Because I thought some people who are pro-vax mandate are just really really too close to the issue. As in, they don't actually believe in government mandates in general, but they are blinded by fear of the virus and going along with whatever authority figures say. I figured by putting out here a plausible direction that the government could go if they were really serious about health and authoritarianism it would make people think a little more deeply about the precedent we are setting by accepting mandatory vaccine requirements to work and dine out, etc. If it was something really obviously ridiculous like mandatory radiation, I just didn't think anyone would think that deeply about it, because they would immediately reject it as insane.

No, I don't actually think the government should have any say in what we eat, I mean in my own perfect world of course healthy food would be easier to get and cheaper, there wouldn't be food deserts but more government is not the way to do that. We are never going to get rid of the government totally unless something really nuts happens so the best we can hope for is redirecting funding to areas where it is actually needed to help people or cut funding from things that are detrimental to society. We see what the government has done to the dairy industry, that's a thread all it's own. I don’t think the government should have any say in anything individuals choose to do. If the federal reserve and government system we have today did not exist with all the land use laws among other things, a lot more people could live off the land and not need all the trappings of modern society. That would be my dream. To get more people out of this system totally.

And the response I got was this and they quoted my comment several times and made comments about different parts of it and I am not very good at formatting so I will just put the parts of my comment that they quoted in actual quotation marks and do the quote code for their interjected comments...

"See then you completely misunderstand me. This is where we are having the disconnect. Because I thought some people who are pro-vax mandate are just really really too close to the issue. As in, they don't actually believe in government mandates in general, but they are blinded by fear of the virus and going along with whatever authority figures say. I figured by putting out here a plausible direction that the government could go if they were really serious about health and authoritarianism it would make people think a little more deeply about the precedent we are setting by accepting mandatory vaccine requirements to work and dine out, etc. If it was something really obviously ridiculous like mandatory radiation, I just didn't think anyone would think that deeply about it, because they would immediately reject it as insane"

So, then you agree with government mandates, right?

"No, I don't actually think the government should have any say in what we eat, I mean in my own perfect world of course healthy food would be easier to get and cheaper, there wouldn't be food deserts but more government is not the way to do that. ..."

So, then you don't agree with goverment mandates???

Which is it?

"... We are never going to get rid of the government totally unless something really nuts happens so the best we can hope for is redirecting funding to areas where it is actually needed to help people or cut funding from things that are detrimental to society. We see what the government has done to the dairy industry, that's a thread all it's own. I don’t think the government should have any say in anything individuals choose to do. If the federal reserve and government system we have today did not exist with all the land use laws among other things, a lot more people could live off the land and not need all the trappings of modern society. ..."

So then you don't agree with government mandates, but there's nothing we (as voters) can do about it? Is that's what you're saying? You're really losing me here!

"... That would be my dream. To get more people out of this system totally."

WOW! I'll definitely give you credit for one thing...you are an absolute master at dooming your own arguments!! Holy cow! Eugenics??? So now it's off to the train cars???? It's only a short ride, you can fit more people in there!

LOL!

**SMH**

Okay, I'm going to depart this thread now. I'm not sure whether to laugh, cry or gasp in horror.

So what i am not understanding is how this person arrived at eugenics when I thought it was clear that I was talking about like....centralized banking and the government system. This is not a joke post or anything like that. I really just do not understand how these conclusions can be reached and I know my own shortcomings as they relate to interactions with people outside of my own family and that is why I am asking for help in understanding this.

a reply to: Chalcedony

A man is walking along a beach when he comes across a lamp in the sand. He rubs the lamp and the proverbial genie emerges, offering to grant him one wish, whatsoever he may desire.

"Well" say the man, "I've always wanted to visit Hawaii, but I'm afraid to fly and terrified of boats. So my wish is that you build a highway from California to Hawaii so that I may go."

The genie booms. "That's ridiculous! In all my time as the genie of the lamp I have never had a wish so preposterous! The infrastructure of such a task alone would be greater than the pyramids at Giza. I have never refused a wish in all my centuries, but for your insane wish, I must simply say no. Choose again."

The man thought for a while before finally saying, "Ok, well then, I want to know all about women. I want to know how their minds work, what they want, what makes them tick, the insides and outs, everything."

The genie pauses for a moment and then says, "Ok, two lanes or four?"

a reply to: TheMirrorSelf

I appreciate the levity but honestly lately it just seems like I do not understand a lot of things that people are saying and they don't understand what I'm talking about either and it has really been a weird hate to say "glitch in the matrix" type experience for me where I am just scratching my head asking... what?!?

originally posted by: Chalcedony
a reply to: TheMirrorSelf

I appreciate the levity but honestly lately it just seems like I do not understand a lot of things that people are saying and they don't understand what I'm talking about either and it has really been a weird hate to say "glitch in the matrix" type experience for me where I am just scratching my head asking... what?!?

Well, I don't really know what else to say to you other than you're definitely not alone. Paul tells us in Scripture that "they will have eyes but cannot see, ears but cannot hear". This scripture is really hitting home with me as of late, especially with this COVID madness (but long before that...site 9/11). It's impossible for me to truly relate to these people, but I've developed a strategy (also given by Scripture)...don't cast your pearls before swine. What are your pearls? Well, they're you! They're your stories, your beliefs, your passions, your desires, your loves and interests. Find like-minded people and you'll find yourself (somewhat) relieved of these frustrations, and those with whom you find intolerable difficulties, let them go their way and you go yours. As a pragmatic, and less ethereal suggestion, there is a site called MeetUp.com (I know, it sounds like a dating site but it's not). Basically it's a site that allows people to form groups around like-mindedness. You're into Star Trek, there's a group for that. You enjoy bird watching, there's a group for that. If I were you I might check that out and it's quite possible that, through your mutual interest, you'll find a whole gathering of people whose minds work similarly to yours...

a reply to: TheMirrorSelf

That sounds awesome. I hope some people somewhere are like me. It just seems so difficult to find them but I am going to check that site out thank you for that.

I think it was George Carlin that said something like ‘think of the average human, half of humanity is stupider than that’.

Some of what you are going through is just people misunderstanding you because of bad reading and comprehension skills. Some of them are misunderstanding you to make you confused and mad. You will also find some that jump into a discussion without reading the whole thread and have no idea what you have stated previously because they can’t be bothered with reading that part.

Don’t let it bother you much. It is easier to argue with a fence post then get some posters to understand you sometimes.

half of the people are stupider than you are and you will never understand what motivates them.

the other half are much smarter than you and you will never understand what motivates them

stick with taking care of animals.

a reply to: beyondknowledge

See initially I thought it was just miscommunication but I explained it so many times I start to think it is on purpose or that I am maybe literally speaking a different language or something.

a reply to: sraven

I don't know what the case is here and that is why it is confusing. Like am I missing something completely? Animals are definitely easier to understand than people. Usually.

a reply to: Chalcedony

Yes, some is intentional. Some is just different backgrounds and not necessarily languages. Like saying it is 90 degrees fahrenheit here. Some will think it is really hot and humid because that is what it is in there location. Some will think it is normal because that is what is normal for them and not feel that hot because it is dry there. Some will have to convert to celsius to get an understanding. All three have a common language but different understanding of the same words.

a reply to: beyondknowledge

This makes so much sense and I never even thought about it like that. What a great analogy. My mind expanded because of that and I appreciate it.

I seem to be the source of your frustration, but not to worry; I'll be very kind here (considering what sub-forum we are in). No snarky remarks, no lectures, just hopefully an honest reply to your OP here. ...

First, welcome to ATS, albeit a little late.

I raise animals too. Quite a few of them actually. And, I will heartily agree with you about understanding animals better than understanding humans. Personally, I think I like my dogs and my cattle more than I like most people (my wife being and a select few others being the exception).

So, let me attempt to address your question in a different way, using animals. This might resonate with you. You know how an animal responds a certain way to body language and non-verbal communication more so than verbal commands? Dogs are a great example, but I'm going to refrain from using dogs because too many people believe dogs can do things that they really can't (i.e. like understand what people say). Instead, I will use cattle as the example.

Everyone knows cows can't understand what a person says, but cows are very keen at understanding body language. Like Pavlov's dog, if I bang a pitchfork on a corral panel, the cows know it's dinner time and they will come in without a word spoken. And, if I act calmly and normally around them they are relaxed. We can carry on whole conversations without saying a word. They can tell me how they are, whether they are happy or irritated...all kinds of things. On the other hand, when they come in, if I all of a sudden run at them aggressively, screaming at them, they will run away. All they understand is that I called them for dinner, and then seemingly got angry at them, and they ran away like cows do. They didn't understand those actions.

Now, it wouldn't have mattered bit if I had ran at them screaming "I LOVE YOU, COWS! YOU ARE GREAT COWS!", all they saw was a crazy aggressive guy running at them screaming something. Several very complex behaviors just changed when I did that, but I won't go into those points now (unless you want to hear about boring cows) because that's not the point.

The point is, when we are on the internet we don't have any of these body language or non-verbal communications tools at our disposal. We also don't know what is inside someone else's head. We only have the words we type, and the words we read. And, while I always know what I meant, I cannot always be certain someone else will. I can only assume they will read the words at face value. In other words, that people will take each word at its literal meaning...unless I communicate, in writing, otherwise. Same thing goes in reverse.

I will be the first to tell you, this is something we all stumble over from time to time, and it is a very difficult skill to master...yes, even for me. Especially on an international forum such as this one.

I honestly believe you really did intend to message something other than what I (and others) interpreted throughout your (other) thread. I'm still not exactly sure what that was (yet), but that is irrelevant here. The point is, clearly there was a misunderstanding, and yes, it only got worse as time went on.

For my part, I will say I'm sorry for frustrating you.

I hope this helps answer your question...even if just a little bit.

Are we good now? There are no hard feelings here on my end. Hopefully now there are not on your end either.

Take care. And I do mean that sincerely.

a reply to: Chalcedony

Sure, this is easy.

Animals generally follow their programing. Input X solicits Y response.

Humans generally have some of the same physical and phycological responses of animals with added logic, emotion, reasoning, and self awareness which complements and or overrides the base programing.


As you can clearly see in society, emotion now heavily drives the thoughts and actions of a portion of society. Reality and Logic do not matter if you believe emotionally that reality is wrong.

You simply make believe that your new truths are reality and then attempt to enforce compliance on the rest of society.

Orwell's 1984 gives us a stunning example of this:

“War is peace.

Freedom is slavery.

Ignorance is strength.”

― George Orwell, 1984

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Classy response from a real class act. You have my respect.

a reply to: Chalcedony

Animals have simple -- and pure -- motivations. They want shelter, food, water, nurturing/communion and entertainment. People want shelter, food, water, nurturing/communion and entertainment. The difference is, people will kill for their needs. Animals will only kill for food or entertainment, and the latter, only cats.

a reply to: argentus

Actually, coyotes kill for sport too. I've witnessed it...in my pastures (with antelope). They will pull a young antelope calf down, or a young beef calf and just leave it. Wolves will kill for food generally, bears will kill for defense or food (depending on the species, black or brown). Wolves will generally return to the kill.

Humans will kill for all three reasons, and sometimes even a forth...anger.

Some say a brown bear will kill a black bear just because of turf. Indeed I've seen them fight to the death, up close and personal, in Alaska (it's brutal). And, it is for turf, but I think (IMHO) that it's more about food than turf. Brown bears rarely fight to the death. Black bears almost always do. This is why you never want to get into a fight with a black bear. The defense tactics between the two bears are almost polar opposites!

Ironic that you would point this out! It just underscores my point about misunderstanding. If a person uses his same non-verbal communication with a black bear (that they would use with a brown/Grizzly bear), they will be attacked. If a person uses the proper tactics for a black bear on a brown bear...they will definitely be attacked, and likely killed! Conversely, if a person uses brown bear defenses against a black attack, they will not only be killed, but likely eaten by the bear!

Oddly, what are these two defenses?...with a brown bear you surrender (you cannot escape). With a black bear you fight (for your LIFE) (not only can you not escape, these bears can climb trees better than you!). Surrender to a black bear and you'll be eaten. Fight against brown bear and you will be killed. Surrender to a brown bear and you might live. Fight against a black bear and you might live.

It's all about unspoken language.

So what is the moral?

Understand misunderstanding.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

I grew up in northern Idaho, and from a young age, was allowed to carry a .44 Winchester lever-action rifle when I rode into the Selway-Bitterroot Wilderness Area. Why? Because I was encouraged to avoid ALL bears, especially in the late spring, when they had cubs. I was also encouraged to avoid moose, cougar, badger, wolverines, and people who lived up there that didn't want to be disturbed.

My training was such that if I couldn't avoid any of those threats and they were coming for me, I should, if possible, turn my mare sideways to them and shoot across the saddle for the center of mass. She allowed that. She would flinch, of course, but not move.

I've seen all of the above fight for females, but rarely for turf, except people. Mustangs will fight for both.

I think the moral -- at least for me -- is to avoid species that are capable of killing you, but if you MUST be in the same area, have an edge that allows you to at least hold your own. I remember an encounter with a Mountain Lion. It was SO fast. I hoped to not have to shoot it. I was # scared. My mare was # scared. It was deciding if it could take the horse and rider. When I pulled my rifle, it knew what that was. It pissed off the big cat and it snarled several times, but it backed off.

These days, I think the species that are the most dangerous that I must avoid are people. Especially people in groups, who seem to love to identify the "others" who are the enemy. People in herds that are scared are irrational and dangerous. The togetherness I felt in earlier years is gone. The herd wants blood. Blood of the 'others'.

a reply to: argentus

That hit home.

I got stalked by a cat once just at sunset in the CO mountains, in the worst possible place imaginable. Believe me, I understand. My Reno (my horse) wasn't with me that day, I was on foot, but it scared the living life out of me!

That moment when you realize you are in the perfect 'kill zone', is just shocking. When you go from 'hunter' to 'hunted'. I was the top predator that day...until that moment. That cat had me that night...he knew I was going to walk down into those trees after the elk that night. Down into that dark timber. He'd circled around me at least three times by then; his tracks were everywhere and fresh in the new snow. I took pictures of the big tracks, but I never saw that big Tom. Those elk were in the dark timber for a reason, and I was easy prey. Stupid me..it was downhill everywhere into his world and steep uphill out of it...what a better ambush point?

Those cats (cougars) are smart! Never under estimate them! They get their prey in an area where they can't flee. (in my case, steep uphill, in the snow).

That cat followed me, in and out of the trees on the road I was walking on back to camp for about 3 miles. When we got close to camp, he bolted. That cat had his sights set of a fatty lunch...what else could you hope for as a cat????

originally posted by: Chalcedony
a reply to: TheMirrorSelf

I appreciate the levity but honestly lately it just seems like I do not understand a lot of things that people are saying and they don't understand what I'm talking about either and it has really been a weird hate to say "glitch in the matrix" type experience for me where I am just scratching my head asking... what?!?

People see what they want to see.

We all see what we want to see. Coffey looks and he sees Russians. He sees hate and fear. You have to look with better eyes than that.

- Lindsay, The Abyss

It's not uncommon for people to just have your point fly right over their head, especially if you made a point that wasn't what they wanted it to be or it got complicated somewhere along the way.

Some people are fans of putting words in your post, and others just miss nuance. Not everyone has a strong grasp of reading comprehension, and there are various reasons for that. Sometimes, we just miss things when we are reading and responding quickly. I'm sure you have done it too. I know I have on occasion. Other times, people just aren't strong at reading and putting meaning together. Doesn't mean they aren't sharp enough, just that complex text can be tough to put together. Yes, there are learning disabilities centered on that. I worked with those kids. You tell them that sunflower grows 6' above the ground and they literally think the plant is hovering 6' in the air.

So sometimes, you have to break down what you meant more and work around with someone that you really are on the same page more than they might think.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Consider though that for the big bears that have to pack on the calories to survive, turf *is* food.