Sweden Resists COVID Hysteria

originally posted by: glen200376

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2

originally posted by: Halfswede

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2

originally posted by: Halfswede
Sweden today. No discussion required.

No discussion?

How about discussing the 66 odd % vaccination rate since the OP's out of date source from last August? No?

How's that working out for Israel, the US, UK etc. Are their deaths down to 0? Are they even less since the vaccination campaign started? How is Oregon doing? They locked the heck out of that state?

I suspect Sweden in benefitting from the 13x better natural immunity letting things take their course rather than vax. They protected the old and didn't shut down society. Quit panicking people. The daily deaths in the world are on par with any other year. Lockdowns are simply not the answer.

No lockdown here in the UK. No, deaths are not at 0. Obviously. Yes they are now less. I post a source but seeing as how I already posted one saying Sweden has a 66% vaxxed rate which you ignored I really can't be arsed.

deaths in the UK are nowhere near 0.They are 3 times higher than this time last year,with your saviour the vaccine.
Lies,lies.lies,tell the truth Branch Covidian.

Yeah we know why you won't post a source because it messes up your narrative,downright utter liar.

I never said they were 0. I won't post a source? Here you go. I'm afraid it will totally mess up your narrative. " Branch Covidian"? "Liar" am I?

"Deaths in the UK | Coronavirus in the UK" coronavirus.data.gov.uk...

originally posted by: Nexttimemaybe

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2

originally posted by: Nexttimemaybe

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: Doctor Smith

I also posted this by way of an update how things are now in Sweden, as opposed to your Rosey version from a year ago:

www.businessinsider.com...

Which you have conveniently ignored.

Disgraceful. Have you no shame?

He and hawkeyi should meet up, get a room with good wifi and then watch YouTube and bitchute together. They would have a lovely time sharing the videos together.

Who, me? What are you on about?

Not you, the OP, the good doctor.

Ah. Yes, that would be fun.

originally posted by: glen200376

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2

originally posted by: Halfswede

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2

originally posted by: Halfswede
Sweden today. No discussion required.

No discussion?

How about discussing the 66 odd % vaccination rate since the OP's out of date source from last August? No?

How's that working out for Israel, the US, UK etc. Are their deaths down to 0? Are they even less since the vaccination campaign started? How is Oregon doing? They locked the heck out of that state?

I suspect Sweden in benefitting from the 13x better natural immunity letting things take their course rather than vax. They protected the old and didn't shut down society. Quit panicking people. The daily deaths in the world are on par with any other year. Lockdowns are simply not the answer.

No lockdown here in the UK. No, deaths are not at 0. Obviously. Yes they are now less. I post a source but seeing as how I already posted one saying Sweden has a 66% vaxxed rate which you ignored I really can't be arsed.

deaths in the UK are nowhere near 0.They are 3 times higher than this time last year,with your saviour the vaccine.
Lies,lies.lies,tell the truth Branch Covidian.

Yeah we know why you won't post a source because it messes up your narrative,downright utter liar.

Now, perhaps you might post a source of your own to back up your claim?

After you have calmed down a bit.

This is a post I wrote in response to an article which put forth the claim that Sweden has faired far worse than other European nations in regards to covid fatalities. I do not believe the data supports those claims. The information is relevant to this thread and I've chosen to share it here.

This is the claim put forward in the article:

More than 5,500 people have died with Covid-19 in this country of just 10 million. It is one of the highest death rates relative to population size in Europe, and by far the worst among the Nordic nations. Unlike Sweden, the rest all chose to lock down early in the pandemic.

5,500 ÷ 10,000,000 = 0.00055

0.00055 = 0.055% of the population

0.055% = 99.945%

I couldn't source information on co-morbidities for those 5,500. As you've identified with sources the claim is that it was mostly elderly (nursing home) residents who passed.

Sweden keeps very accurate population statistics. I found an interactive database for which different statistics can be added or omitted to determine diagnosis, causes of death, ages, location, comparisons to statistics for the rest of Europe and the world etc. Link below.

Swedish statistic database

Cause of Death Statistics, Entire Sweden, Age: 0-95+, Both sexes, 2020

Diagnos

Covid-19 (virus identified and not identified) Number of deaths/100,000

91.19

Mortality rate per 100,000, age-standardised according to the population of Europe U07.1-U07.2 Covid-19

88.87

91.19 (Swedish vid 19 deaths per 100k population) - 88.87 (European vid 19 deaths per 100k pop) = 2.32

2.32 per 100k population more allegedly died from vid 19 in Sweden relative to the rest of the European pop.

Why do I say allegedly died from the vid? Take note of 'virus identified and not identified.' The following information is taken from the WHO's ICD-10, International statistical classification of diseases and related health problems (.pdf link below).

.pdf for WHO covid codes

We are looking for Chapter XXII Codes for special purposes, specifically codes U07.1 and U07.2
(U00-U85)

U07.1COVID-19, virus identified

COVID-19 NOSUse this code when COVID-19 has been confirmed by laboratory testing irrespective of severity of clinical signs or symptoms. Use additional code, if desired, to identify pneumonia or other manifestations.Excl.:Coronavirus infection, unspecified site (B34.2)Coronavirus as the cause of diseases classified to other chapters (B97.2)Severe acute respiratory syndrome [SARS], unspecified (U04.9)

U07.2COVID-19, virus not identified

Use this code when COVID-19 is diagnosed clinically or epidemiologically but laboratory testing is inconclusive or not available. Use additional code, if desired, to identify pneumonia or other manifestationsExcl.:Coronavirus infection, unspecified site (B34.2)COVID-19:

confirmed by laboratory testing (U07.1)

special screening examination (Z11.5)

suspected but ruled out by negative laboratory results (Z03.8)

🤨

If you have a look at the .pdf you will see that WHO is counting "probable covid-19" and "suspected covid-19" in with confirmed covid 19. That isn't very scientific but it is quite $cientific. When single positive covid cases are being used as an excuse to enforce restrictions it is quite alarming to see suspected covid cases counted in with confirmed cases. At least, it's quite concerning in my opinion. That WHO document is over a year old and the Swedish stats are from 2020. Maybe things have changed since then.

Moving on... Let's extrapolate that Swedish data further and have a look at the ages of those who passed from 'the vid' in Sweden during 2020.

Cause of Death Statistics, Number of deaths, Entire Sweden, Age: 0-95+, Both sexes, 2020

Diagnos

0-4 (4)
5-9 (--)
10-14 (1)
15-19 (2)
20-24 (4)
25-29 (7)
30-34 (12)
35-39 (8)
40-44 (16)
45-49 (41)
50-54 (74)
55-59 (136)
60-64 (195)
65-69 (361)
70-74 (742)
75-79 (1200)
80-84 (1821)
85-89 (2190)
90-94 (1758)
95+ (869)
Total (9441)

Total 0-69 (861)
Total 71-95+ (8580)

861 ÷ 8580 = 0.1003 = 10%

90% of Sweden's vid deaths in 2020 occurred in individuals aged 70 or older. Again, no mention of co-morbidities in those death stats. Also the fact that U07.2 unconfirmed vid cases are bundled in with U07.1 confirmed vid cases with no distinction made between those two stats. 🧐 Sounds like Sweden did just fine sheltering the vulnerable and allowing the rest to proceed as normal.

Cheers.

a reply to: CircumstancialEvidence

That's great, but those stats seem to be for 2020?

a reply to: CircumstancialEvidence

I'm not directly questioning anything you've posted... just wanted to point out the latest statistics.

Link

a reply to: Doctor Smith

The population of Sweden is just over 10 million.

The population of New Zealand is just over 5 million.

Sweden has had 14,692 deaths from COVID-19 to date.

New Zealand has had 26 deaths from COVID-19 to date.

Per capita, the deaths from COVID-19 in Sweden, are more than 18 times what it is in the USA.

I don't think that Sweden has had a good track record on surviving COVID-19 at all. Their decision to do nothing was a national disaster (according to their king).

An interesting chart with some statistics...

Large Version


Source

originally posted by: glen200376

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2

originally posted by: Halfswede

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2

originally posted by: Halfswede
Sweden today. No discussion required.

No discussion?

How about discussing the 66 odd % vaccination rate since the OP's out of date source from last August? No?

How's that working out for Israel, the US, UK etc. Are their deaths down to 0? Are they even less since the vaccination campaign started? How is Oregon doing? They locked the heck out of that state?

I suspect Sweden in benefitting from the 13x better natural immunity letting things take their course rather than vax. They protected the old and didn't shut down society. Quit panicking people. The daily deaths in the world are on par with any other year. Lockdowns are simply not the answer.

No lockdown here in the UK. No, deaths are not at 0. Obviously. Yes they are now less. I post a source but seeing as how I already posted one saying Sweden has a 66% vaxxed rate which you ignored I really can't be arsed.

deaths in the UK are nowhere near 0.They are 3 times higher than this time last year,with your saviour the vaccine.
Lies,lies.lies,tell the truth Branch Covidian.

Yeah we know why you won't post a source because it messes up your narrative,downright utter liar.

Well, I posted a source so after your rather nasty and personal little rant, where is yours?

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

Yep. Said that multiple times in my post.

Cheers.

originally posted by: CircumstancialEvidence
a reply to: Oldcarpy2

Yep. Said that multiple times in my post.

Cheers.

OK. So what do you think about the up to date stats?

a reply to: Oldcarpy2Your link proves my case.this time last year deaths were one third of now.
A far cry from your next to zero.

a reply to: Kreeate

Thank you for the updated stats. I find it interesting that neither age stats nor co-morbidity stats are included with that data. Age and co-morbidity are both important. Also: non-confirmed (suspected) covid cases are apparently still being counted with confirmed covid cases which is quite disingenuous in my opinion.

If the age range for deaths from 2020 is consistent with 2021 then 90% of those 14,651 deaths are in people who are over 70 years in age. That would make 13,186 of those deaths 70+ years of age. It's sad when anyone dies, but elderly people are more prone to death. It's the way of life. Destroying small business and causing significant harm to the economy, both of which lead to even more death, is not a proportional response in my opinion.

Not directed at you in a negative way at all. Just making some observations from my perspective.

Cheers.

originally posted by: glen200376
a reply to: Oldcarpy2Your link proves my case.this time last year deaths were one third of now.
A far cry from your next to zero.

My "next to zero"?

I never even said that so I will just ignore you.

"Branch Covidian"?

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: Doctor Smith


Per capita, the deaths from COVID-19 in Sweden, are more than 18 times what it is in the USA.

I think that may be a maths fail.

Deaths per capita are slightly lower in Sweden than the US.

originally posted by: CircumstancialEvidence
a reply to: Kreeate

Thank you for the updated stats. I find it interesting that neither age stats nor co-morbidity stats are included with that data. Age and co-morbidity are both important. Also: non-confirmed (suspected) covid cases are apparently still being counted with confirmed covid cases which is quite disingenuous in my opinion.

If the age range for deaths from 2020 is consistent with 2021 then 90% of those 14,651 deaths are in people who are over 70 years in age. That would make 13,186 of those deaths 70+ years of age. It's sad when anyone dies, but elderly people are more prone to death. It's the way of life. Destroying small business and causing significant harm to the economy, both of which lead to even more death, is not a proportional response in my opinion.

Not directed at you in a negative way at all. Just making some observations from my perspective.

Cheers.

No worries, we're all good

Here's a link with a lot more statistical information, including age stats. It's all in Swedish of course, but you can use a translator if that's an issue.

Another link

Death from Covid, lab verified as well as non-lab verified ( age groups including both female and male )
To clarify... the row "Riket" is the total for all Counties below it. Remember, these are from 2020 info and is not yet updated.

Source for above chart

Link to document explaining U07.1 and U07.2 (lab confirmed / inconclusive)

Guidance for Certifying Deaths Due to Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID–19)

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

Let's discuss the 55.8% fully vaccinated rate in Sweden and compare their numbers (all numbers are per 100,000 population) to the US, which has a fully vaccinated rate of 53%--for all intents and purposes, the same, considering that we reached a higher level much more quickly that Sweden and they played catch-up in the last couple months.

So, let's see if we can agree to just pretend that the differences in vaccination quality, climate, culture, population densities, and comorbidities aren't relevant factors for a second. If so, let's take a look at confirmed infection numbers for each nation:

SWEDEN

• 110,905 per million people (1.13-Million actual infections)

UNITED STATES

• 117,742 per million people (39.20-Million actual infections)

So, if you take these numbers (per 1,000,000), you are looking at a 6.16% increase in the US' numbers compared to Sweden's, which is not very much, and can probably be explained away by the factors that I mention. But still, it is more, which isn't much of a reflection on all of the mitigation efforts overall.

So, one could argue that, since the numbers are so close together, that the lack of overbearing mandates and COVID-mitigation efforts didn't have much of a negative effect for Sweden, especially since they're slightly ahead. But when you look at the chart below that I put together to compare the two countries, you'll notice one interesting thing: in the country with heavier lockdowns and mitigation mandates, there were more relative cases and bigger surges in the year of the pandemic. And while Sweden had a second surge larger than the US' spring or 2021, our nation was already heavily vaccinating our citizens while Sweden STILL, to this day, does not have the supply necessary to open up the ability to have at least one single dose for every adult in the country. Our vaccination efforts were open to all adults on April 19, 2021.


Take a second to consider that last point, because when you look at the US graph at the bottom versus Sweden's at the top, there's one MAJOR difference in the past 2.5 months—America's numbers are surging very high, while Sweden is experiencing a low-rise-but-steady increase in cases. And which country has dramatically more mitigation efforts, vaccines, and forced mandates on their people?

Yes, it's the one with the dramatically higher increase in cases over the past couple of months.

So, I'm no sure what your point is in regard to talking about vaccination rates, because they don't really seem to matter and it's not an apples-to-apples comparison. But, if you deepen your research a little bit, not only do they not seem to matter, but we seem to be doing worse off overall (and expecially currently) than the nation with little-to-no mitigation efforts and mandates.

Here's a question. At what point do we demand accountability? WHO has made it clear in their literature that they feel it is acceptable to include "probable" and "suspected" covid cases with "confirmed" covid cases. Are "probable" and "suspected" acceptable metrics for measuring deaths due to covid? Should "U07.2COVID-19, virus not identified" have it's own category or is including "maybe cases" with "definite cases" reasonable?

For me that is entirely unreasonable, as is not including a metric for the presence of one or more co-morbidity among covid patients and obscuring or not including age data. An obese diabetic cancer patient who gets covid is more likely to die than an individual without co-morbidity. Heck, a covid patient with a single co-morbidity is obviously at greater risk than a covid patient without a co-morbidity. This is the way of life. If an individual is in a group with a higher risk of death than the general population, it follows that if the higher risk individual contracts an illness, that individual will be more susceptible to suffering worse symptoms from said illness and is also has a higher risk of death from said illness.

We are here attempting to debate current affairs (primarily with data metrics) while lacking key data metrics. It feels a bit foolish to me and certainly doesn't warrant the negativity which has been levied at one another. I believe we should direct our concerns towards the people who've been hired to record and report data. We aren't being given the whole picture. Why is that? It is almost as if those in charge of recording and reporting statistics (and those setting covid policy) either want to sow confusion or do not feel a responsibility to provide the necessary data with which we can inform ourselves and form educated opinions. Either option is wholly irresponsible in my opinion.

It's a bit sad to see the negativity which is being tossed back and forth. If we can't conduct ourselves appropriately and have mutual respect, what is the point of interacting. What a waste of time and effort.

It may seem like I am splitting hairs, but I don't believe I am. I think these are valid concerns which are not being addressed. Do feel free to let me know if you disagree and feel that my questions are irrelevant to the situation at hand.

Anyway, just my two cents. My question at the beginning of the post was genuine, sincere, and not rhetorical. I'm curious to know what others think about the odd metrics and incomplete data sets which are being released.

Respectfully,
Evan

a reply to: Kreeate

Thank you for this. I enjoy numbers and will delve into these sources. One of the many things I appreciate about Sweden is the incredibly detailed and accurate statistics they keep. I suspect it has to do with the nature of their Socialist government and the character of the Swedish people, but I digress. I'm anticipating the 2021 stats being released sometime early next year and will be going over that data when the time comes.

I've found this Swedish statistics company to be quite useful. They have a large number of employees and take their work very seriously.

Statistics Sweden is responsible for official statistics and for other government statistics. This means that we develop, produce and disseminate the statistics. In addition, we coordinate the system for the official statistics in Sweden.
We also conduct long-term cooperation projects with statistical offices in developing countries, which are financed by Sida.
Statistics Sweden is located in Solna and Örebro, and has about 1300 employees, of whom roughly 100 are field interviewers. They collect information for our surveys around the country. In total, operations amount to over one billion kronor annually, of which half is from government appropriations.

Thanks again for your links. It's past midnight here in Holland and I still have some work to do before bed. I'll take a more in depth look at what you've shared with me tomorrow. Appreciate being able to have a respectful interaction with you. Means a lot to me.

Cheers

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Which nation is that? What "little to no mitigation efforts"? That was Sweden last year?

Not this year?