(Biblical) Eternal Punishment vs Annihilation: What's your opinion?

originally posted by: GolgothaBridge
a reply to: NOTurTypical

Yes, I know you can achieve everlasting life, and the flame are everlasting, but if you are thrown into the everlasting flames do you last forever? I believe you do, but I'm looking for any evidence that this is what it means without inferring anything.

The lost are given resurrected bodies too, just like the elect saints of God. But I never considered the firs as the worst part of the lake of fire, it’s the absence of anything that comes from God, specifically the loss of hope and no rest day or night.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

Yes, that's inline with my beliefs. You get a new and glorified body that will not die, and where you go then is up to you now.

a reply to: Lazarus Short

Now you know the origin of "hell."

Thank you for that info but I assumed the OP wanted the Genesis account. In the Jewish bible and written in the book of Isaiah it is understood that God will [at the time the book was penned] create a celestial new heaven and new earth. The New Jerusalem will come to rest upon the new earth just as John has declared, Revelation 21:2, and shows us that both the author of Isaiah and John do agree.

Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
Isa 65:18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
Isa 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

The question most ask is what is a worm of a dead soul? Whatever it is it will not die as we understand death. Whether or not it is a conscious worm or unconscious worm is left to us to guess. I assume that this is an eternal event of the dead soul but know no more that you know. Of course my understanding is physicality whereas it could be the mind or totally spiritual.

originally posted by: GolgothaBridge
a reply to: Deetermined

For those who are of the view that eternal death means you are deleted permanently like bad code, perhaps it is apointed for every man to die once, but those who do not choose life they are permitted a second. I personally align with the eternally hungry/thirsty/suffocating/burning but never "switching off" view.

When the time of the Great White Throne Judgment period is over, God will then create a new heavens and a new earth (Revelation 21:1). All the former things (including the Lake of Fire) will pass away (Revelation 21:4–5). “Behold, I make all things NEW” (Revelation 21:5). This is when God the Father himself finally comes to this earth to establish his residence here (Revelation 21:2–3).

So those who were cast into the lake of fire apparently cease to exist. there was mention of no tears in heaven over people who were judged bad because their souls ceased to be FOREVER. the burning forever is most likely the souls destruction being PERMANENT.

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: GolgothaBridge
a reply to: Deetermined

For those who are of the view that eternal death means you are deleted permanently like bad code, perhaps it is apointed for every man to die once, but those who do not choose life they are permitted a second. I personally align with the eternally hungry/thirsty/suffocating/burning but never "switching off" view.

When the time of the Great White Throne Judgment period is over, God will then create a new heavens and a new earth (Revelation 21:1). All the former things (including the Lake of Fire) will pass away (Revelation 21:4–5). “Behold, I make all things NEW” (Revelation 21:5). This is when God the Father himself finally comes to this earth to establish his residence here (Revelation 21:2–3).

So those who were cast into the lake of fire apparently cease to exist. there was mention of no tears in heaven over people who were judged bad because their souls ceased to be FOREVER. the burning forever is most likely the souls destruction being PERMANENT.

Now if souls are destroyed permanently, how then does God truthfully say that He has made ALL things new?

a reply to: Lazarus Short

Good point. Everyone receiving a new body would make more sense in that.

a reply to: Lazarus Short

The whole passing away part covers that,as in no longer existing,ceasing to be.

Think of it as thanos snapping his fingers,and suddenly someone is just gone,as if they never were ever born. God controls time as well and can rewrite it to suit his agenda.

a reply to: yuppa

That's funny that you mention that. One of the preachers I listen to on occasion detailed how Infinity War is the book of Revelation from Satan's perspective. Thanos being God, the Avengers being the armies of Satan, the snap being the rapture.

originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: Lazarus Short

The whole passing away part covers that,as in no longer existing,ceasing to be.

Think of it as thanos snapping his fingers,and suddenly someone is just gone,as if they never were ever born. God controls time as well and can rewrite it to suit his agenda.

I think you're making it up as you go along...

a reply to: Lazarus Short

No I stated the verses earlier,but apparently you didnt read them. The non verses are OPINION.

originally posted by: GolgothaBridge
a reply to: yuppa

That's funny that you mention that. One of the preachers I listen to on occasion detailed how Infinity War is the book of Revelation from Satan's perspective. Thanos being God, the Avengers being the armies of Satan, the snap being the rapture.

Well there is not going to be a rapture anyway. The people who are of God,and jesus will be here and unable to be harmed. only the selected will be taken away to be with jesus at that time. why bring more than you have to when the kingdom is going to descend in a short time?

Idk, ether a new job opening came up in another realm of existence or get reborn in a more primitive, interesting time due to mandatory volunteer services made by a very high Court.

Or just face complete utter deletion, an get a fresh start.

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: GolgothaBridge
a reply to: yuppa

That's funny that you mention that. One of the preachers I listen to on occasion detailed how Infinity War is the book of Revelation from Satan's perspective. Thanos being God, the Avengers being the armies of Satan, the snap being the rapture.

Well there is not going to be a rapture anyway. The people who are of God,and jesus will be here and unable to be harmed. only the selected will be taken away to be with jesus at that time. why bring more than you have to when the kingdom is going to descend in a short time?

For the marriage supper of the Lamb. That takes place in heaven during Daniel’s 70th Week.

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: GolgothaBridge

I guess that depends on what one's definition is for the "second death" in Revelation 21:8.

If the Bible says that man only dies once, isn't that referring to a human death? Wouldn't the second death be death of the soul? The second death refers to both death itself and hell being thrown into the Lake of Fire. Does that only mean that the temporary states of human death and hell are moved to a more permanent location with Satan and his angels or are they all destroyed? Once again, what does "death" mean in the "second death"?

The first death is experiencing the death of our mind and body. The second death is experienced by the soul when it is again entrapped in another mind and body being reborn in the lake of fire. That lake being our universe.

a reply to: glend

While I disagree with this, it's an interesting point to consider. Thank you.

a reply to: GolgothaBridge
And we see how the church becomes the Harlot, pop culture theology
More interested in self service than what Jesus commands, loving others

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: GolgothaBridge
And we see how the church becomes the Harlot, pop culture theology
More interested in self service than what Jesus commands, loving others

He actually mentioned it as a warning that popular culture is training people to accept the role in the army is Satan and to distance yourself from it.

You have given two false choices. The Unsaved are neither 'annihilated' nor are they 'tormented for infinity'. This is the false paradigm Christians are kept in unfortunately.

Universalists are closest to the Truth, but are just shy of the Mark.

To find the answer OP, you must be willing to set aside all bias and relearn the Bible. This is an extremely difficult task for most Christians BTW. Your biggest Key is to take the Bible as literal as possible.

Example:

Psalms 139:15
"My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth."

You should know what 'Lowest parts of the Earth' is. Yes, it is 'Hell', so called. But what is Hell? Read the verse again.

Hell is where babies are made. Do you understand?

Keep going...

Ephesians 4:9
"Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?"

Jesus first descended to Earth to incarnate. But where exactly was this? It was in the 'Lower parts of the Earth'. Are you getting it?

Again, where do babies come from? The Womb. The phrase 'Lower/Lowest parts of the Earth" is referring to the Womb.

Christians are taught Jesus 'went to Hell' after his death. Like I said, you need to relearn the Bible.

Jesus descended into Mary's Womb... the Lower Parts of the Earth... to incarnate.

One last thing...

Christians are told that the Lake of Fire is the 'end of the story'. This is not True. The Lake of Fire comes from the Old Testament and the Valley of the Son of Hinnom. The Children 'passed through the fire'. Understand?

Those thrown into the Lake of Fire PASS THROUGH IT. They do not 'burn forever'. Where do they go?

I will cut to the chase. Another word for the Lake of Fire is 'Tophet'. Who is Tophet? She is the Goddess of the Hearth. She is the Everlasting Fire.

Tophet is the Goddess Vesta. Now, go to Wikipedia and read what Vesta looked like...

en.wikipedia.org...(mythology)

"The myths depicting Vesta and her priestesses were few, and were limited to tales of miraculous impregnation by a phallus appearing in the flames of the hearth—the manifestation of the goddess"

Have you figured it out yet?

The Lake of Fire is a picture of the Moment of Conception. This is where you, I and everyone here came from. We came from the Lowest Parts of the Earth. How did we get there? We were thrown into the Lake of Fire.

This is what the Bible ultimately teaches. There are many verses that describe this.

"He that is able to receive it, let him receive it."

Good luck OP.

originally posted by: Seede

The question most ask is what is a worm of a dead soul? Whatever it is it will not die as we understand death. Whether or not it is a conscious worm or unconscious worm is left to us to guess. I assume that this is an eternal event of the dead soul but know no more that you know. Of course my understanding is physicality whereas it could be the mind or totally spiritual.

The word 'Worm' in the Bible is code for RNA. Specifically, the Genome. In other words, our Genome does not die when our Body dies.

The letters that make up our RNA/DNA (Genome) is what the Bible refers to as the 'Soul'. It is information. Our Soul lives on after death.

The purpose of the Lake of Fire is to destroy the Soul of those that are Unsaved, leaving only the Spirit...

Matthew 10:28
"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

The Spirit returns to God who gave it.

originally posted by: glend
The first death is experiencing the death of our mind and body. The second death is experienced by the soul when it is again entrapped in another mind and body being reborn in the lake of fire. That lake being our universe.

Wow! I can't believe you know this. You are precisely spot on.

Too bad your Revelation went over the OP's head. That's how it goes unfortunately.

I guess I am wasting my time on this thread.