(Biblical) Eternal Punishment vs Annihilation: What's your opinion?

I know what I believe, but I know there is some debate. I would like to see everyone's view backed up by scripture to see why people believe differently. For believers, do you believe that those who are not under the blood of Jesus will be in hell eternally or temporarily before being destroyed? Please point to scriptures which guide your beliefs.


Edit: the point of this post is for people to provide scriptural reference to defend their understanding of the issue. I personally believe Hell is eternal. Prove me wrong.

a reply to: GolgothaBridge

Well, since Jesus believed in eternal punishment with "wailing and gnashing of teeth", I suppose it has to be that.

But then I'm not a Christian.

originally posted by: CJCrawley
a reply to: GolgothaBridge

Well, since Jesus believed in eternal punishment with "wailing and gnashing of teeth", I suppose it has to be that.

But then I'm not a Christian.

Good answer. I'm curious to know where some Christians get the idea that it is temporary or people's souls are just abolished if they don't make it in.

a reply to: GolgothaBridge

I guess that depends on what one's definition is for the "second death" in Revelation 21:8.

If the Bible says that man only dies once, isn't that referring to a human death? Wouldn't the second death be death of the soul? The second death refers to both death itself and hell being thrown into the Lake of Fire. Does that only mean that the temporary states of human death and hell are moved to a more permanent location with Satan and his angels or are they all destroyed? Once again, what does "death" mean in the "second death"?

Thoughts?

a reply to: GolgothaBridge

That’s a very poor intro
Asked us to justify our beliefs, hid your own, didn’t justify anything, almost in arrogance

Two trees in the garden of Eden , do you know what they represented, unlikely I think but from there, you prove your opinion is valid

What about “everyone receives salvation”, you missed that

Their soul isn't lost or abandoned.

The damned are punished in the presence of the Holy.angels and Christ, the Bible says so.

God is an all consuming fire, without the covering of Christ your sinful ways will burn forever, if you're not repentant of your wicked ways, then the soul burns with it.

If you hit a homeless man you'll probably get a warning or a month in jail.
Hit your boss in work and it's a fine and 6 months.
Hit the queen and you'll either be dead or I jail.for life...
You see, even now we have an ascending order of severity in punishment, even in the temporal world.
Now, imagine spitting in the eye of an eternally just, almighty God and thinking yourself above his position (which is what atheism does). Your punishment fits the crime.

The gnashing of teeth actually means continuous talking and insulting. Those in Hell blaspheme and curse because they're damned. They do also burn, yes.

Now, and here is the tragic part, you NEVER sinned against anyone but God, and when judgment comes, had you simply accepted Christs free gift of salvation - declaring him Lord - then you would have escaped the torment.

You'll burn because you're in front of an all consuming fire WITHOUT a covering. You'll curse because you did it to yourself and you'll blaspheme because, in Hell, there is no hope of redemption.

You do NOT have to go to Hell. You really don't. Do not be decieved, the Lord can and will save you is you'd but ask and believe!

a reply to: GolgothaBridge
The New Testament tells us that the alternatives are being with God and not being with God, and offers images ("banquet", "outer darkness") helping us to understand that the first is preferable. That is really all we know.

I argue that the "lake of fire" (Revelation ch21 v14) is not eternal torment, because Death and Hades are not living things and cannot be tormented.

a reply to: Deetermined

For those who are of the view that eternal death means you are deleted permanently like bad code, perhaps it is apointed for every man to die once, but those who do not choose life they are permitted a second. I personally align with the eternally hungry/thirsty/suffocating/burning but never "switching off" view.

originally posted by: Joneselius
God is an all consuming fire

God is an all consuming fire but you are then saying He doesn’t consume anything, what?

a reply to: Raggedyman

Fire is used to purify gold by burning off impurities.

a reply to: Raggedyman

That's not what I said, you said that.

An all consuming fire would consume eternally, right. If your soul is eternal (which it is) then it stands to reason you'd be consumed eternally.....

originally posted by: Joneselius
a reply to: Raggedyman

That's not what I said, you said that.

An all consuming fire would consume eternally, right. If your soul is eternal (which it is) then it stands to reason you'd be consumed eternally.....

If consumed eternally, you must never burn out then. As a burning bush did not burn up, or the oil of the lamps which lasted all week instead of one night. Constantly burned, but never gone. Similar to the constant supply of bread and fish, but opposite in nature.

a reply to: GolgothaBridge

So what, is that some kinda Golgotha parable that I should understand

Do you know what the two trees in Eden represented, what they meant?
Do you understand why mankind had to leave Eden, why God kicked us out
Work on that

originally posted by: Joneselius
a reply to: Raggedyman

That's not what I said, you said that.

An all consuming fire would consume eternally, right. If your soul is eternal (which it is) then it stands to reason you'd be consumed eternally.....

That’s what I thought you said

Please show me where the human soul is eternal, without Jesus
Be grateful

Win this little theological discussion as well, you will
Soteriologyy, so much fun

a reply to: GolgothaBridge

The burning bush represented God, not mankind, that’s very clear
The oil in the lamps lasted a week, not eternally

And what, constant supply of fish and bread, what are you talking about, Jesus miracle?
That didn’t last forever and is unrelated to eternal life and... it was a miracle of Jesus
If you don’t accept Jesus you want receive eternal life from Him, that’s the whole point

originally posted by: GolgothaBridge
a reply to: Deetermined

For those who are of the view that eternal death means you are deleted permanently like bad code, perhaps it is apointed for every man to die once, but those who do not choose life they are permitted a second. I personally align with the eternally hungry/thirsty/suffocating/burning but never "switching off" view.

So, it is your opinion that the "second death" is eternal punishment and not really death as we would normally define it? Just trying to understand what you're really saying here.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Right. Of course it my metaphors break down at a point. But all of these lasted longer than our physics would dictate. If you have 1 kilo of diesel you can burn it to gain 12 kWh of energy dissipated as other compounds and heat. But then in this metaphor you still have your one kilo of diesel which keeps burning. It's like a fire in a videogame which burnes eternally (while in view) but never consumes materials.

originally posted by: Deetermined

originally posted by: GolgothaBridge
a reply to: Deetermined

For those who are of the view that eternal death means you are deleted permanently like bad code, perhaps it is apointed for every man to die once, but those who do not choose life they are permitted a second. I personally align with the eternally hungry/thirsty/suffocating/burning but never "switching off" view.

So, it is your opinion that the "second death" is eternal punishment and not really death as we would normally define it? Just trying to understand what you're really saying here.

I don't know. I lean towards eternal punishment, but Jews do not believe this and Christians can only take a few vague comments of Jesus to defend it. What if we are misunderstanding Jesus? Of course it won't matter for those who make it to the New city.

a reply to: GolgothaBridge

Do you know what the two trees in Eden represented, what they meant?
Do you understand why mankind had to leave Eden, why God kicked us out
Work on that
And what were Christ’s vague comments, love to see them?

If you have a spare half hour, want to Lear another view and why some Christians disagree with eternal punishment for humanity

a reply to: Raggedyman
I suppose vaguely understood by humans...
And I want to reiterate that this is to be a debate and I am not defending either side nor am I trying to be argumentative. But here goes:


"And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
Capital punishment is eternal in that you don't come back from it, but you do not go on suffering. However eternally being actively punished would not reselt in eternal death, unless of course you define death differently.

"Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."
The fire is eternal, that's established. If I am placed in it, do I burn eternally or am I consumed and the fire remains?

"But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."
Again, define death. Is it a shut off or deletion or constant process of decay that is never realized?