Britain and US Redploys Troops To Afghanistan

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: Soloprotocol

Dude, come on....

A bit of respect.

Disagree all you want, but no need to be a dick.

His history on ATS is riddled with Dickish behaviour ... best of ignoring him.

It seems it's all over but the shouting , Taliban are waiting at the gates of Kabul awaiting a peaceful handover by the Afghan government.

A Taliban spokesman has told the BBC's Yalda Hakim "there will be no revenge" on the people of Afghanistan.

"We assure the people in Afghanistan, particularly in the city of Kabul, that their properties, their lives are safe - there will be no revenge on anyone," Suhail Shaheen told the BBC.

"We are the servants of the people and of this country."

"Our leadership have instructed our forces to remain at the gate of Kabul - not to enter the city. We are awaiting a peaceful transfer of power."

He also said all Afghans would have participation in the Islamic government - meaning Afghans who are not Taliban would also be included.
www.bbc.co.uk...

20 years work undone in a matter of days.

a reply to: gortex

Its crazy eh,

All that money and blood and we have got pretty much nothing to show for it.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Headstones. Widows. Widowers. Orphans.

Up to the individual to decide whether it was worth it, or not.

Personally, I'm coming down on the side of...not.

The US should have never been there to begin with.

If the people who live there don't want the Taliban or other extremists in control they need to start standing up for themselves and act like it.

a reply to: seagull

I know the Fall of Saigon from the history books. However, my father's service with the Australian Army in Vietnam does throw a spanner into the mix. The trail of broken promises is horrific to contemplate, little alone to unfold in the media. Heck, Twitter provides live and unverified reports from the Taliban's return to power.

There are moral and practical elements at work. Regardless of what one feels about Vietnam and Afghanistan, abandoning the people who worked with coalition forces or opposed victors makes me sick. Besides, in future war zones, why would anyone work with the ADF and NZDF if they think they are expendable?

a reply to: EvanB

Afghanistan is the grave of nations.

Get back in, get the people who helped us out, relocated to our nations.

Then leave the rest of they poor sods the hell alone.

Because realistically nobody is holding Afghanistan without significant sustained toil and trouble just down to the diversity of the people and the unhospitable mountainous terrain.

As much I think Biden is a brain addled f***tard, and is surrounded by those of a similar mental capacity, playing the blame game is too easy here.
What about all the military brass advising him? Are they not responsible for this fiasco?

Let’s face it, they should have removed all civilians from the place waaaay before the removal of the military, whose job it should have been to then put the cat out and turn off the lights before leaving themselves. Each and every one of those allegedly military commanders sitting in comfort thousands of miles away obviously are incapable of rational thought and planning. Probably all too busy watching their stocks in the MIC and negotiating their advisory roles come retirement.

As for the actual mess itself, as long as governments have standing armies, at the disposal of political and corporate control, there will be wars.

a reply to: xpert11

We can debate until the cows come home about whether we should have been in Afghanistan or not but the cold, harsh reality is that we were.
Our abandonment of the Afghani people is one of the most cowardly decisions our governments have made in my lifetime.
And the desertion of those who worked with our forces is shameful and dishonourable and as you rightly point out it certainly won't encourage people in other nations to work with us should the need ever arise.

The Taliban have stated there will be no retribution on the Afghan people; their previous actions suggest it will only be a matter of time before they start to impose their interpretation of Sharia Law, resume their eradication of Afghanistan's pre-Islamic heritage, settle tribal differences and engage in vengeful reprisals against those who opposed them and the people who worked for coalition forces.

Once they have consolidated their power in Afghanistan I wonder if The Taliban will seek to extend its sphere of influence in region?
Will they provide safe haven for terrorists and their training camps?

Many within The Taliban have close tribal and familial links to elements in Pakistan.
Historically there has been much support in Pakistan for fundamentalist Islamic groups and terrorist organisations - both overtly and covertly.
If these links are strengthened and Pakistan takes a leap towards the extremists how do we think India will react?

Worst case scenario maybe but.....

Personally I think we owed a moral duty to Afghanistan, especially those who worked with our forces.
But it was also an incredibly naive and short sighted political decision that could have serious ramifications.

a reply to: xpert11

My Dad served in Vietnam, very early in our involvement there. 1959-60. As an advisor. I think he saw more combat there, than he did in WWII...

He adored the Vietnamese people. It was something he never forgot, or forgave, when the US abandoned so many who'd allied themselves with us.

So many of them didn't survive very long after Saigon's fall. As in Laos, and Cambodia, retribution was swift, and usually fatal--after a while.

It never ceases to amaze me, how many who escaped still came here to the US to live. Not sure I would have, in the same circumstance.

originally posted by: EvanB
a reply to: Soloprotocol

I have and even though we were on combat operations

We also helped build schools, hospitals and infrastructure. For the first time young girls were able to go to school. No beheadings by the taliban in football stadiums.. They had a modicum of security

So unless you have actually been there and did the things we did I would keep your uneducated mouth shut.

Plus many of my mates died to make that happen including some when they got home by suicide

Pffft

Unfortunately, there are always those that will be happy to send other people to die so they can virtue-signal from the comfort of their cosy chair in front of their computer.

originally posted by: Ohanka
There are people fighting this war who weren't born when it started. Let that one sink in.

Same was true 10 years ago.

Let that one sink in.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: xpert11

We can debate until the cows come home about whether we should have been in Afghanistan or not but the cold, harsh reality is that we were.
Our abandonment of the Afghani people is one of the most cowardly decisions our governments have made in my lifetime.

Unfortunately, that analysis is entirely correct.

News article from the ABC:

Thousands of people are stranded at Hamid Karzai international airport in Kabul, the country's capital, as Taliban forces captured the city.

Retired Admiral Chris Barrie, who led the ADF when it entered Afghanistan in 2001, has criticised the government for failing to evacuate local interpreters and contractors who supported Australian defence personnel in Afghanistan.

Full article

The Taliban have stated there will be no retribution on the Afghan people; their previous actions suggest it will only be a matter of time before they start to impose their interpretation of Sharia Law, resume their eradication of Afghanistan's pre-Islamic heritage, settle tribal differences and engage in vengeful reprisals against those who opposed them and the people who worked for coalition forces.

Despite there religious/political ideological differences, both the North Vietnamese and the Taliban are not "kind" victors. No doubt, the Taliban retribution against there opponents is swift and brutal.

Once they have consolidated their power in Afghanistan I wonder if The Taliban will seek to extend its sphere of influence in region?

Most likely, they align with Chinese mining interests.

Will they provide safe haven for terrorists and their training camps?

A scary scenario is Pakistan losing control over the Taliban. Either that a splinter group uses Afghanistan as haven for unseating Pakistan's ruling elite. A group like ISIS or the Taliban plunge Pakistan into Civil War. Also, they gain control of that country's nuclear weapons stockpile.

a reply to: xpert11


Agreed.

We made promises to millions of people who are now, and will be soon, tortured and/or killed for believing us.

And the potential outcome for the region takes us right back to where we were on Sept 12, 2001.

Shameful.

This was never about freeing the Afghan people. How fast you people forget.

The US were hunting/looking for someone. And we gave the Afhgans small handout along the way. But we also told them that they had to help themselves.

originally posted by: spy66
This was never about freeing the Afghan people. How fast you people forget.

The US were hunting/looking for someone. And we gave the Afhgans small handout along the way. But we also told them that they had to help themselves.

Debatable, as both were desired.

Either way, it doesn't change the fact that we made promises to protect the people joe has just abandoned to terrorists.

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: xpert11

My Dad served in Vietnam, very early in our involvement there. 1959-60. As an advisor. I think he saw more combat there, than he did in WWII...

In the Vietnam War, and compared to their WW2 counterparts, soldiers spent more time in combat.

He adored the Vietnamese people. It was something he never forgot, or forgave, when the US abandoned so many who'd allied themselves with us.

But Australia, New Zealand and the U.S. sought to forget the Vietnam War. But I don't think our respective governments deserve forgiveness for the ongoing events in Afghanistan.

It never ceases to amaze me, how many who escaped still came here to the US to live. Not sure I would have, in the same circumstance.

Many of those people fled to Australia by sea routes. They formed the first wave of boat people to arrive on Australian shores.

a reply to: Nunyabizisit

Debatable, as both were desired.

That was the impression we were given. It is funny how things have to be illustrated to the public to give support.

We gave nothing but small handouts. Did patrols to look for insergents. Basically to protect our selves and our own camps.

originally posted by: spy66
a reply to: Nunyabizisit

Debatable, as both were desired.

That was the impression we were given. It is funny how things have to be illustrated to the public to give support.

We gave nothing but small handouts. Did patrols to look for insergents. Basically to protect our selves and our own camps.

Just being there gave most folks more safety than any had known for generations.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: EvanB
a reply to: Soloprotocol


Plus many of my mates died to make that happen including some when they got home by suicide

No luck, eh?

You are among the lowest scum in our society.

That is all.