What if "Karma" and "Reincarnation" actually works backwards

a reply to: Proto88

It could be looked at in an infinite number of ways . The first problem seems to be that if this universe is finite, there can be nothing infinite in it. PI is infinite. So now we are in an Infinite Universe this tends to say if this is so, nothing can be certain there is only a high degree of probability. Every statement could be true or false because opposites can exist in this state. If reality is an illusion, it is still a reality, it just has a different structure than the hard-wired one we think it is.
Karma is a fact because anything you do has consequences if you kill or injure someone, you have entered a game where you can get killed or injured. Personally, I think the physical body holds the karmic debt like if you are overly promiscuous the high probability of contracting a disease is increased. If you have grown rich by nefarious means you end up in a prison of your own making, because someone wants to kill you. You can see this in the Mexican drug cartels no one is on top for long.
On the other hand, the mind exists forever out of time and distance. For instance, memory recall is nothing to do with the body, you actually mentally go back in time to observe whatever event, and if you haven't got a body you can literally go there because you have left its limitations. On the other hand, you can always pick up another body and reincarnate but for obvious reasons it's to reform and get a better life, not to make the same mistakes. Even the new body comes with Karmic marks, it's not a free ride. But it's all about getting free. The thing is you are already there but don't know it ,That's why you dream, you have probably lived many times, and just like the dream state, the memory is obscured because it isn't relevant to your present life unless you want it to be.
These are observations I have made over time and believe they have a high probability of being true.I think the truth is self-evident just like karmic right and wrong sometimes a harder road is the right one as it makes you stronger because of the challenges you overcome. I wonder if others here have reached similar unscripted conclusions.?

a reply to: pthena

I love you and that story, so freaking good. LOL.

a reply to: geezlouise

I stole this for you from getty images.

Interesting, if utterly depressing notion!

There’s a few sentiments on the life’s bitter ironies that give weight to your theory, such as ‘no good deed goes unpunished’ and ‘the path to hell is paved with good intentions.’

I’m sure there are more!

a reply to: dandandat2

Do you view a bad memory as an advantage to a person in everyday life? Then, by forgetting every 70 years or so everything we have learned, would we be helped to improve our lot (or master any of the previous levels very well for that matter)?

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
a reply to: dandandat2

This point for me is prime. Is our very existence a product, because human existence IS after all a product, of an agency of free will or just a product of a never ending mechanical happenstance. I guess that for those who do not ask these questions, the question is moot, hence the importance of an answer is minimal.

The answer that most easily comes to me is that ''if'' we postulate that we humans have have free will then we must understand that free will is to whatever degree an ingredient of existence itself. And there's the rub.

From my vantage point I find very little free will manifest. In my own life very little if any and in others the same. This to me indicates that if I do have this agency, it is just a little bit, but that again is prime. Maybe this is all about attaining free will? Life after life slowly inching towards more and more free will.

And while this free will may not be prominent in these, our incarnated lives, it may be that on that higher plane it is.
Maybe the final goal is understanding all of the ramifications of free will. The effects of free will.

Oh man, that's too much for me at this point. I need to take a break cuz my (quoting the Gumbies from Monty Python)
''my brain hurts''.

I would have to say that in order for any type of Karma and Karma induced incarnation to be real than free will must exist at some level.

With no free will than our actions in a given incarnation are neither good nor bad (proper nor improper). We need free will if our actions are to be judged or our accomplishments to mean anything.


Free will vs mechanical happenstance is a good topic to discuss on its own.

a reply to: dandandat2

Free will vs mechanical happenstance is a good topic to discuss on its own.

Yes please.

a reply to: dandandat2We seem to be in a complementary discussion here rather than a contrary type of discussion. That said I prefer the terms ''good and better'' rather than good or bad, or proper or improper. Right or wrong. I see a difference there in perception. Better yet maybe is , ''is and what might be'', ''what could be.'' It might just be me and my own idiosyncrasies but I find that moving way from those older phrasings to be, how do I say this, liberating. I find by doing this it is easier to not be judgmental. Hence, I also prefer to evade thinking in terms of judgement. Sorry if I got to deep into my own peculiarities there.

And yes, I agree that we need fee will for our actions and accomplishments to mean anything. Otherwise they would not be our accomplishments, just A + B = C in a mechanical happenstance existence. And yes, I find discussion on free will vs MH to be a good topic on it's own while understanding that none of the rest of this can really be discussed with out that question lurking in the back ground all the time.

a reply to: dandandat2

These things are hard to research, but Shanti Devi's case sort of proves it doesn't work backwards.

However, I HAVE pondered about this a lot, and can't still quite understand how it can even work. A long time ago, I write about my thought experiment that has two people at the 'beginning of karma', or before either one has accumulated any.

Now, if karmic consqeuences always happen because of karma, how can karma ever begin? I mean, obviously if there are two people, and let's say individual Gergh hits individual Florb painfully in the shoulder, it's clear that individual Gergh will at some point have a tree branch fall against HIS/HERS/ITS shoulder just as painfully, to satisfy the karma. This is all fine and good.

However, since Florb didn't do ANYTHING, how can he ever receive any hit to his shoulder (I am going to use 'he/him/his' from now on just because it's easier)?

Karmically, this would be a huge injustice, and shouldn't be able to happen - innocent people should NOT receive any painful hits!

So how can it begin? How could it be fair that Florb gets a hit?

This is where the - well, maybe not exactly 'backwards', but at least free-from-causal-postulate-type karma comes in. Perhaps, since 'time' is not as linear as we think, in some more 'holographic' (for the lack of better term, although it's not accurate) time, it's already known that Florb does something painful to someone in the future, he, in fact, deserves this hit, although CHRONOLOGICALLY-LINEARLY (?) thinking, he hasn't YET committed that sin.

I mean, let's say the Karma Lords have a timemachine they can use to check what Florb does in the future.

However, even this explanation is problematic in many ways, one of which is, that receiving this hit invariably alters Florb's psychology. The more painful or unfair (or seemingly unfair) events happen to you, the more jaded you become, that's just natural, a fact of life, if you will. If you go through a life of hardship and disappointment, it's gonna be hard for you to be starry-eyed and excited, happy, joyful soul when your bodily age reaches 55 years.

That's why I think there almost HAS to be something to this 'backwards'-theory, or maybe it's 'any-which-way' rather than JUST backwards... I don't know. It's interesting to ponder, though.