Why Would Black Mistrust in the Government be Justified While White Mistrust is Hostile?

a reply to: zosimov

Easy answer...

Because out country has a history of chemical/medical/disease testing on black minorities and treating them like lab rats. Our govt also pushed crack coc aine into poor black neighborhoods.

Whereas with us white Americans, we are generally (Im saying generally.. not every case) treated as first class citizens IM COMPARISON.

a reply to: zosimov

I'm still working on the idea of mistrust in government as a general thing with Americans.

But this just in: Statement by Donald J. Trump, 45th President of the United States of America

07/18/21
Joe Biden kept talking about how good of a job he's doing on the distribution of the Vaccine that was developed by Operation Warp Speed or, quite simply, the Trump Administration. He's not doing well at all. He's way behind schedule, and people are refusing to take the Vaccine because they don't trust his Administration, they don't trust the Election results, and they certainly don't trust the Fake News, which is refusing to tell the Truth.

The Donald is linking refusal to take his OWS vaccine with mistrust in the election results and the "Fake News".

There seems to be some sort of correlation, even if very slight, between listening to this guy's claims and mistrust in government in general.

a reply to: Lucidparadox

How could anyone trust a government capable of the atrocities you mention was the whole point of OP. Just because it’s happening to other people doesn’t or shouldn’t change a thing.

originally posted by: Lucidparadox
a reply to: zosimov

Easy answer...

Because out country has a history of chemical/medical/disease testing on black minorities and treating them like lab rats. Our govt also pushed crack coc aine into poor black neighborhoods.

Whereas with us white Americans, we are generally (Im saying generally.. not every case) treated as first class citizens IM COMPARISON.

you are almost there.....just a few more feet........

a reply to: zosimov

For some reason Joe Biden's recent (Just 3 days ago)Proclamation on National Atomic Veterans Day, 2021 didn't show up on my normal news sources.

Many brave men and women have risked their lives in service to our Nation, but few know the story of our “Atomic Veterans” — American military service members who participated in nuclear tests between 1945 and 1962, served with United States military forces in or around Hiroshima and Nagasaki through mid-1946, or were held as prisoners of war in or near Hiroshima or Nagasaki. These veterans served at testing sites like the Bikini Atoll and witnessed the destructive power of nuclear weapons firsthand. On National Atomic Veterans Day, we recognize and honor the contributions of America’s Atomic Veterans for their sacrifice and dedication to our Nation’s security, and recommit to supporting our Atomic Veterans and educating ourselves on the role these patriots played in our national story.
...
Atomic Veterans served our Nation with distinction, but their service came at a great cost. Many developed health conditions due to radiation exposure, yet because they were not able to discuss the nature of their service, they were unable to seek medical care or disability compensation from the Department of Veterans Affairs for their illnesses. Decades later in 1996, the United States Congress repealed the Nuclear Radiation and Secrecy Agreements Act, allowing Atomic Veterans to tell their stories and file for benefits. By then, thousands of Atomic Veterans had died without their families knowing the true extent of their service.

So they were sworn to secrecy, couldn't be treated for illnesses stemming from a (secret/unknown) source. And most of them died before secrecy was lifted in 1996.

And I wouldn't even have known about this Proclamation if I hadn't clicked a footnote in Wikipedia. I was sort of aware of these guinea pigs from past reports, that's why I looked in Wikipedia.

a reply to: pthena



I can add this.

How many veterans are suffering after having been exposed to the burn pits during the Gulf War?

And we won't get into Agent Orange.

And there is a story about some Atomic veterans being marched through the fallout of one of the desert bomb tests on purpose to determine if combat on an atomic battlefield would be possible.

originally posted by: zosimov
a reply to: Lucidparadox

How could anyone trust a government capable of the atrocities you mention was the whole point of OP. Just because it’s happening to other people doesn’t or shouldn’t change a thing.

The government has been corrupt for a long time, and has been doing the bidding of the rich, and powerful, for a very long time.

We were selectively blind to what the government was really up to. We were victims of deception, tools, and pawns. They used our patriotism, and love of country, against us. Uncle Sam was never a family member, and he never gave a damn about us, except to lead us to the slaughter.

There are tons of documents that go back a multitude of years, that expose just how evil our government is. We have turned a deaf ear, and a blind eye, because we thought, its okay, it is just always the other guy, and they probably deserved it. Or it was for the good of the many, or it was a moral and humanitarian sacrifice, that had to be made, for the children. You can bet they always had a good excuse, we could swallow.

Just a few reason why maybe we shouldn't trust our government. There are plenty more. Makes you ask yourself about the ones we have not found out about yet.

A history of testing

The US biological weapons programme started during World War II. But the first real public test didn’t happen until 1949, when scientists put harmless bacteria in the air conditioning system at the Pentagon to see what a biological weapon might look like. Unbiased. Nonpartisan. Factual.

A year later, the US Navy carried out Operation Sea-Spray. The coast of San Francisco in California was sprayed with two types of bacteria, Bacillus globigii and Serratia marcesens. These bacteria are supposed to be safe, but Bacillus globigii is now listed as a pathogen, causes food poisoning, and can hurt anyone with a weak immune system. As for Serratia marcesens, 11 people were admitted to hospital with serious bacterial infections after the San Francisco test. One of them – Edward Nevin – died three weeks later.

In 1951, tests were also carried out at the Norfolk Naval Supply Center in Virginia – a massive base that equips the US Navy. Fungal spores were dispersed to see how they would infect workers unpacking crates there. Most of the workers were African-American and the scientists wanted to test a theory that they were more susceptible to fungal disease than Caucasians.

In 1997, the National Research Council revealed that the US also used chemicals to test the potential of biological weapons in the 1950s. Zinc cadmium sulphide was dispersed by plane and sprayed over a number of cities, including St Louis in Missouri and Minneapolis in Minnesota.

These cites were chosen because they were similar to Soviet targets such as Moscow in terms of terrain, weather and population. The council concluded that no one was hurt and that the level of chemical used was not harmful, but in 2012, sociology professor Lisa Martino-Taylor claimed that there was a spike in cancer rates that could be connected back to the chemicals, which she alleges were radioactive. Nothing has since emerged to back up her claims.

Secret Testing in the United States | American Experience | PBS

Just the tip of the iceberg.

The simple answer is that while so many want to blame the corps for being shady, they are watched by the government ... incessantly, and the government is full of people like leftists who hate the corps.

The system is not perfect. It is corrupt, but it works better than just one or the other because the government as the watch is watched by no one and thus can do as it likes.

a reply to: ketsuko

There is a bill that has been introduced in the Senate S.952 - Presumptive Benefits for War Fighters Exposed to Burn Pits and Other Toxins Act of 2021 www.congress.gov...

Maybe I'll write a letter to my Senators and Representative. For some reason I thought veterans got health care without specific causes being approved. Guess I was wrong about that.

a reply to: zosimov

Thoughtful OP - thank you. And many good comments, too.

Another way I think about your points is the narrative is an insurance policy. If you’re white - and think whitey is bad and black people are oppressed - then it’s ok for you to be wealthy/prosperous.

Tuskegee was the first thing that came to my mind in your post though. Bad things have been perpetrated against all humans - but there have been a lot of structural limitations on the black community and bad things happening to the last 100 years.

I consider that my family came to the US over 150 years ago and can be traced back to the 15th century England. That’s many, many generations who have attended schools, had jobs, run businesses, etc. that compounded that knowledge and frankly evolved with the current “system”.

By contrast, Black people have been largely able to openly participate in the US economy at scale for what… 80 years more-less freely at the absolute maximum? That’s an enormous amount of compounding they missed out on not due to wealth (my family isn’t some multi-generational wealth situation) but, more importantly, exposure to and knowledge about how to “play the game”… meaning go to school, learn how to do things, get a job, work hard, don’t break the law, raise your family, support yourself, take responsibility, respect other people and their property, etc.

The “system” is based on, for the purpose of my comment, those types of principles. That’s the game. The black community - which has been oppressed by the left for ages - hasn’t had enough time to learn to play the game at scale due to Democrat policies.

To cover themselves, the left now say “white man bad” while vacationing at Martha’s Vineyard with other wealthy white people… and the vaccine is just one more example of where, in reality, many portions of white/black/brown America have the same oppressor and if we got down to it a common threat.

We’re all more alike than one might think if you’re not part of the multi-generational wealth families who are entrenched in politics, foundations, tech, WEF, medicine, etc. Most all of whom are white - and are also those pounding the table the loudest in relation to the OPs point.

They know we’re more alike than not. So the left does what it’s doing to make sure we don’t realize it. Ironic.

a reply to: Hamburgler

I know everyone thinks of Tuskegee because it's a textbook case.

The problem is when you see people acting/thinking like, "Well, that was just black folks ..."

I don't know about you, but Tuskegee was US citizens. If the government could experiment on them, then it can experiment on any one of us. When people see black and think that makes them safe, all they're really seeing was a variable that made this or that group expedient to target at the time. Variables can and do change. Yesterday (historically) it was skin color, but tomorrow it could be socioeconomic status (homeless) or political leaning or even where you happen to live (rural folks).

All it needs is a government willing and able to experiment on its own citizens.

a reply to: ketsuko

It has never been about skin color for the government. It was a brilliant way to keep us distracted, separated, and against each other. That way they remain, innocent and safe.

They don't care any more about White citizens than they do Black citizens. But as long as they can make the White citizens think they are only targeting the dispensable Blacks, they kill two birds with one stone. If they make the Whites feel safe, they will never notice the poison they are covertly dosing them with, while more obviously taking the wrap for targeting the Blacks.

originally posted by: zosimov
I’m sure there are some in the government and media and maybe even on ATS who would want to shut people like me up, which of course makes the rebel in me want to write more and to keep writing until they shut me down for good.

There is so much to write on the topic, but for today I'll focus on the way the media is framing (and fueling) the controversy depending on the race of the person who doesn’t want the shot.

If you’re white, you are a hostile, blind follower of Trump (even though Trump himself had the shot in secret, the media is always sure to tell you) misinformed, anti-science paranoid conspiracy theorist who is doubling down merely to make Joe Biden look bad.

Despite the best efforts of some health and government officials, outright hostility against getting vaccinated has taken root among some conservative segments of America. It’s a trend that experts say will be extremely difficult to overcome, thanks to deep political polarization and the spread of misinformation.

There has been increasing rhetoric, from the president on down, that these Americans are killing people with their stupidity and don’t deserve a voice and/or a place in civil society.

Now shut up and roll up your sleeves and jab your babies too; we won’t be happy w/o 100% compliance rate, and if it turns out that there is something to the reports of (for example) heart inflammation, then of course it’s prudent to force it on the entire human race. Boosters too.
Because science has never been wrong. It might not be “wrong,” but it does change, and in the words of Fauci himself:
"[I]t isn't a question of being wrong. It's a question of going with the data as you have, and being humble enough and flexible enough to change with the data www.axios.com...

For the people of color, though, who represent large swathes of vaccine hesitancy, the media has another story. They’re never mentioned in the accusatory and aggressive articles such as the following:
globalnews.ca...
It’s way more fun (and socially acceptable) to blame the white Republicans for the pandemic (despite such players as Gain-of-Function fauci and
Care-Home-Covid Cuomo who certainly have their share of the blame).
The people who aren’t white who don’t want the jab have justified fears of the government, or because they’re underserved, according to studies and the narrative:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...
www.kff.org...

Which brings me to my main question:
If the white Americans and black Americans share the same governing body, why should white Americans trust the same government they acknowledge has been (and continues to be) oppressing and damaging the health of other people?
An untrustworthy and unjust regime for one is an untrustworthy and unjust regime for all.
Which one is it, America?
As for me, I stand shoulder-to-shoulder with black America and do not trust the government always does what is in the best interest of its constituents. One of the biggest horrors of antebellum south in my opinion was the local and federal government’s refusal to combat, address, or even in most cases prosecute the most despicable crimes against innocent victims. The US army was responsible for massacres against the native population.
Doctors contributed terribly to the health crisis by overprescribing opiates (doctors are not infallible):
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...


The media should be ashamed of its inflammatory and divisive racist tactics (let’s see who’s here to discuss the media’s approach to the crisis, and who is here to shoot the messenger!).

It's the same reason why black people are expected to vote Democrat, even though the Democrat cities where black people live have becomes disgusting slums.

It's the same reason why you ain't black if you don't vote for Biden.

Plantation politics, plain and simple. Black people are still viewed as slaves by the leftists, and, sadly, black people have been taught they're still slaves and believe it.

As long as that is true, black people will always be the victim, and you can't criticize a victim.

originally posted by: rounda

originally posted by: zosimov
I’m sure there are some in the government and media and maybe even on ATS who would want to shut people like me up, which of course makes the rebel in me want to write more and to keep writing until they shut me down for good.

There is so much to write on the topic, but for today I'll focus on the way the media is framing (and fueling) the controversy depending on the race of the person who doesn’t want the shot.

If you’re white, you are a hostile, blind follower of Trump (even though Trump himself had the shot in secret, the media is always sure to tell you) misinformed, anti-science paranoid conspiracy theorist who is doubling down merely to make Joe Biden look bad.

Despite the best efforts of some health and government officials, outright hostility against getting vaccinated has taken root among some conservative segments of America. It’s a trend that experts say will be extremely difficult to overcome, thanks to deep political polarization and the spread of misinformation.

There has been increasing rhetoric, from the president on down, that these Americans are killing people with their stupidity and don’t deserve a voice and/or a place in civil society.

Now shut up and roll up your sleeves and jab your babies too; we won’t be happy w/o 100% compliance rate, and if it turns out that there is something to the reports of (for example) heart inflammation, then of course it’s prudent to force it on the entire human race. Boosters too.
Because science has never been wrong. It might not be “wrong,” but it does change, and in the words of Fauci himself:
"[I]t isn't a question of being wrong. It's a question of going with the data as you have, and being humble enough and flexible enough to change with the data www.axios.com...

For the people of color, though, who represent large swathes of vaccine hesitancy, the media has another story. They’re never mentioned in the accusatory and aggressive articles such as the following:
globalnews.ca...
It’s way more fun (and socially acceptable) to blame the white Republicans for the pandemic (despite such players as Gain-of-Function fauci and
Care-Home-Covid Cuomo who certainly have their share of the blame).
The people who aren’t white who don’t want the jab have justified fears of the government, or because they’re underserved, according to studies and the narrative:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...
www.kff.org...

Which brings me to my main question:
If the white Americans and black Americans share the same governing body, why should white Americans trust the same government they acknowledge has been (and continues to be) oppressing and damaging the health of other people?
An untrustworthy and unjust regime for one is an untrustworthy and unjust regime for all.
Which one is it, America?
As for me, I stand shoulder-to-shoulder with black America and do not trust the government always does what is in the best interest of its constituents. One of the biggest horrors of antebellum south in my opinion was the local and federal government’s refusal to combat, address, or even in most cases prosecute the most despicable crimes against innocent victims. The US army was responsible for massacres against the native population.
Doctors contributed terribly to the health crisis by overprescribing opiates (doctors are not infallible):
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...


The media should be ashamed of its inflammatory and divisive racist tactics (let’s see who’s here to discuss the media’s approach to the crisis, and who is here to shoot the messenger!).

It's the same reason why black people are expected to vote Democrat, even though the Democrat cities where black people live have becomes disgusting slums.

It's the same reason why you ain't black if you don't vote for Biden.

Plantation politics, plain and simple. Black people are still viewed as slaves by the leftists, and, sadly, black people have been taught they're still slaves and believe it.

As long as that is true, black people will always be the victim, and you can't criticize a victim.

I know a lot of Black people that are not Democrats, and I don't know any Black people that think of themselves, or believe they are slaves.

I know more Black people that believe that some Whites, and our system, thinks of them as slaves, and is why many are so angry, and others downright hostile.

The truth is, the brainwashing is taking place on both sides, and it is working well. As long as they can make you believe what you say, they can keep the divide in place, along with the anger, the hostility, and the division.

They make us divide ourselves, but they see us as the same. The have no love for either of us.

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: MiddleInsite
Start with Tuskegee Syphilis Study. Then see where that leads you. Then ask the question again.

said the guy wanting everyone to take the shot and shut up about the part where it's not yet approved by the FDA.
smiling. bigley.

He also doesn’t know the difference between mRNA and an MRI...but want us to shut up and take the shot

a reply to: Lucidparadox

I’m sorry. And it’s none of my business at all...but whenever people so zealously self-flagellate in public....I just snicker at the thought of what they must do in private. It’s like a Freudian confession.

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn

originally posted by: rounda

originally posted by: zosimov
I’m sure there are some in the government and media and maybe even on ATS who would want to shut people like me up, which of course makes the rebel in me want to write more and to keep writing until they shut me down for good.

There is so much to write on the topic, but for today I'll focus on the way the media is framing (and fueling) the controversy depending on the race of the person who doesn’t want the shot.

If you’re white, you are a hostile, blind follower of Trump (even though Trump himself had the shot in secret, the media is always sure to tell you) misinformed, anti-science paranoid conspiracy theorist who is doubling down merely to make Joe Biden look bad.

Despite the best efforts of some health and government officials, outright hostility against getting vaccinated has taken root among some conservative segments of America. It’s a trend that experts say will be extremely difficult to overcome, thanks to deep political polarization and the spread of misinformation.

There has been increasing rhetoric, from the president on down, that these Americans are killing people with their stupidity and don’t deserve a voice and/or a place in civil society.

Now shut up and roll up your sleeves and jab your babies too; we won’t be happy w/o 100% compliance rate, and if it turns out that there is something to the reports of (for example) heart inflammation, then of course it’s prudent to force it on the entire human race. Boosters too.
Because science has never been wrong. It might not be “wrong,” but it does change, and in the words of Fauci himself:
"[I]t isn't a question of being wrong. It's a question of going with the data as you have, and being humble enough and flexible enough to change with the data www.axios.com...

For the people of color, though, who represent large swathes of vaccine hesitancy, the media has another story. They’re never mentioned in the accusatory and aggressive articles such as the following:
globalnews.ca...
It’s way more fun (and socially acceptable) to blame the white Republicans for the pandemic (despite such players as Gain-of-Function fauci and
Care-Home-Covid Cuomo who certainly have their share of the blame).
The people who aren’t white who don’t want the jab have justified fears of the government, or because they’re underserved, according to studies and the narrative:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...
www.kff.org...

Which brings me to my main question:
If the white Americans and black Americans share the same governing body, why should white Americans trust the same government they acknowledge has been (and continues to be) oppressing and damaging the health of other people?
An untrustworthy and unjust regime for one is an untrustworthy and unjust regime for all.
Which one is it, America?
As for me, I stand shoulder-to-shoulder with black America and do not trust the government always does what is in the best interest of its constituents. One of the biggest horrors of antebellum south in my opinion was the local and federal government’s refusal to combat, address, or even in most cases prosecute the most despicable crimes against innocent victims. The US army was responsible for massacres against the native population.
Doctors contributed terribly to the health crisis by overprescribing opiates (doctors are not infallible):
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...


The media should be ashamed of its inflammatory and divisive racist tactics (let’s see who’s here to discuss the media’s approach to the crisis, and who is here to shoot the messenger!).

It's the same reason why black people are expected to vote Democrat, even though the Democrat cities where black people live have becomes disgusting slums.

It's the same reason why you ain't black if you don't vote for Biden.

Plantation politics, plain and simple. Black people are still viewed as slaves by the leftists, and, sadly, black people have been taught they're still slaves and believe it.

As long as that is true, black people will always be the victim, and you can't criticize a victim.

I know a lot of Black people that are not Democrats, and I don't know any Black people that think of themselves, or believe they are slaves.

I know more Black people that believe that some Whites, and our system, thinks of them as slaves, and is why many are so angry, and others downright hostile.

The truth is, the brainwashing is taking place on both sides, and it is working well. As long as they can make you believe what you say, they can keep the divide in place, along with the anger, the hostility, and the division.

They make us divide ourselves, but they see us as the same. The have no love for either of us.

I love how anytime a generalization is made, there is always someone who has to pop up with the "I know some of [insert whatever here] that are the opposite of [whatever generalization you just made]." Did I say "all" black people? No.

Black people call themselves n**gers. And then they glorify the term as if it's some sort of power term for them. And who teaches it to them? Their role models... their brothers, fathers (if they stick around), rappers, etc. In 2021, black college kids are still calling each other n**gers while calling everyone else racist. The irony.

That's it. End of story. They teach themselves that they're slaves. And they blame white people for it.

And who treats them like slaves? The leftists who need a victim class to exploit to stay in power. If you're guilty to be white, you're one of them.

Me, I believe in the content of one's character. Conveniently, that's a message we on the conservative side push, while the leftists push identity politics and ideas based on skin color. I don't care what color your skin is. If you're a dumbass, you're a dumbass. Skin color don't make you any smarter.

And I guess I have to say, "this is a generalization, there are outliers," because, apparently it doesn't go without saying.

I a reply to: rounda

I think you may be classifying the wrong group as outliers.

You say not "all" Black people, but then you generalize them, and classify those with a slave mentality as the majority. I think you are wrong, in fact I am willing to say that I am sure you are wrong.

But I know that you are so fixed in your view that you will never accept that possibility.

It is not my intent to change your mind, I solely respond to dispute the idea that the majority of Black people have a slave mentality of their own making, and they blame White people for it.

Are there Black people think that way? There may be, but they are not the majority.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

You can think whatever you want.

All it takes is turning on the radio to prove me right. Those songs wouldn't be popular if it wasn't true.

And when did I classify the generalization as the majority? Again, did I say "all" black people? Nope. Did I say "most" black people? Nope.

I said black people.

I'm not going to classify it anymore than exactly what I said because you have an issue with generalizations. You must be a blast at parties.

originally posted by: Lucidparadox
a reply to: zosimov

Easy answer...

Because out country has a history of chemical/medical/disease testing on black minorities and treating them like lab rats. Our govt also pushed crack coc aine into poor black neighborhoods.

Whereas with us white Americans, we are generally (Im saying generally.. not every case) treated as first class citizens IM COMPARISON.

Have their been experiments on small subsets of the population with racial components, very true. Your comment about people being treated better or worse by race is pretty wrong, offensive and shows your own ignorance. Your post is void of consciousness and is dangerous as it continues ignorance. The government has a history of being harmful to all civilians with blatant disregard. At the time those experiments held out there was a bit of negativity towards the black community in America you’d agree? At this time there’s a lot of negativity toward the white community (especially straight white men), they have become the new super predator. That distain can justify a blind eye to some bad behavior by government. Germany blamed their troubles on others too