UK Official Covid Vaccine Report More Vaxxed Dying of Delta Than Unvaxxed

originally posted by: IAMTAT

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: IAMTAT

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: IAMTAT

Is a squarespace page written by the doctor himself a good source?

Are you suggesting Dr. Malone is lying about his credentials?
If so...why?

Just curious to what the acceptable level of bias from a source is?

Saying that his claim to have invented mrna vaccines seems to be, lets say unverified at the moment.

US Patent office considered unbiased enough for you?

patents.google.com...
patents.google.com...
patents.google.com...

patents.google.com...
patents.google.com...
patents.google.com...

A selection of expired patents doesn't really suggest he invented the vaccine technology.

As far as I can tell he was involved in some of the original research and certainly made a contribution. however the claim he invented the technology seems to be an exaggeration and made mainly by the doctor and his wife.

The actual used patent itself seems held by this researcher.

en.m.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: IAMTAT

Well thank you for finding that it confirms my belief the patent is for vicol. If you read my earlier post he was with them for a year. In 1990, Jon Wolff at the University of Wisconsin collaborated with researchers at Vical and reported positive results where "naked" (or unprotected) mRNA was injected into the muscle of mice. However, this approach did not work for humans. This is why vicol dropped out of the race. Also means he is padding his resume he was a research assistant under Dr Wolff.

Now his work had nothing to do with mRNA technology other than the idea of programing cells with it. Katalin Kariko, a scientist behind a key discovery in the development of mRNA vaccines made her discoveries in 2005. This is what current mRNA vaccines are based on.

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: IAMTAT

Well thank you for finding that it confirms my belief the patent is for vicol. If you read my earlier post he was with them for a year. In 1990, Jon Wolff at the University of Wisconsin collaborated with researchers at Vical and reported positive results where "naked" (or unprotected) mRNA was injected into the muscle of mice. However, this approach did not work for humans. This is why vicol dropped out of the race. Also means he is padding his resume he was a research assistant under Dr Wolff.

Now his work had nothing to do with mRNA technology other than the idea of programing cells with it. Katalin Kariko, a scientist behind a key discovery in the development of mRNA vaccines made her discoveries in 2005. This is what current mRNA vaccines are based on.

My CV might contain the odd embellishment, but then I'm not using those embellishments to push life threatening claims on Fox...

Dr. Malone's research predates Dr. Kariko's by almost a decade.
She even has admitted her work came from his...

Robert W Malone, MD
@RWMaloneMD
Regarding the meme in US press and U Penn pub concerning Dr. Kariko as the originator of mRNA vax idea and tech. Her first pub on the topic (1998) references my mentorship and coaching. Enough said.

twitter.com...

a reply to: ScepticScot

originally posted by: IAMTAT
Dr. Malone's research predates Dr. Kariko's by almost a decade.
She even has admitted her work came from his...

Robert W Malone, MD
@RWMaloneMD
Regarding the meme in US press and U Penn pub concerning Dr. Kariko as the originator of mRNA vax idea and tech. Her first pub on the topic (1998) references my mentorship and coaching. Enough said.

twitter.com...

a reply to: ScepticScot

That doesn't mean he invented the MRNA vaccine technology as he claims. Research papers reference research done before. That's how science works

Also your source is the doctor himself again.

originally posted by: EvilAxis

You think that looking for a zoonotic origin was following an agenda? Why?

originally posted by: flice
Because...

they are looking for it, specifically.


I'd like to conduct a study on you; to determine if you are an autisitic psychopath.

My method:
I will look specifically for traits that fit that diagnose, and if I find them they will on their own prove my assumptionm that you are an autistic psychopath.

You see the fallacy in working like this?

Substitute the word 'prove' with 'support' and there's no fallacy in your example. Empirical science deals in probabilities, not proofs.

If trait A is strongly indicative of condition B, and you look for it and find it... you've shown that condition B probably exists.

You start with an assumption (or a theory) and test it.

In the paper I cited, the researchers examined the virus for strong binding affinities across several candidate species and failed to find them, except in humans.

You seem to be saying they should not have looked for evidence of a natural origin because they should have known or assumed there isn't one. I'm struggling to believe you think that would be more scientific.

originally posted by: IAMTAT

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: IAMTAT

Is a squarespace page written by the doctor himself a good source?

Are you suggesting Dr. Malone is lying about his credentials?
If so...why?

Are you suggesting we should take someone's opinion over the facts? Has he addressed why the numbers of those vaccinated are far lower than those unvaccinated?

a reply to: IAMTAT

Actually she thanked him for his contribution. If he did 5% of the early work he still contributed.

originally posted by: Grenade

First line of your article:


Disclosure statement

Keith Grehan receives funding from the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and the WHO. He is affiliated with the University of Leeds.
Natalie Kingston is partially funded through the Wellcome trust and MRC.


No conflict to see there.

Unlike the others I posted, it wasn't a peer-reviewed paper. It was just a response (because you asked for one) to the article you posted, which was also an un peer-reviewed opinion piece in the WSJ. Neither count for much while the debate remains at that level.

originally posted by: Grenade

So you’re on a discussion forum to disrupt debate rather than stimulate it.

No, I'm here to discuss and debate. I'm sorry you find that disruptive.

originally posted by: Grenade

Again, time will tell, maybe by blind luck I will be right about something for once.

Well yes, that's possible I suppose.

originally posted by: Grenade

I’m not here to spend my time arguing.

I disagree.

originally posted by: IAMTAT

2005-2018 Consulting services for LLC.
2001-2005 Consulting services

Anything else other than a resume? lol

Being a person that has looked at 100s of resumes in the hiring process I don't hold much value to them... What I got from his is he has been a consulting service LLC since 2001, so the prior 10+ years before going back to being a grad student at UC Berkley who knows. I don't see him associated with mRNA research in those 30+ years either.

I'm not saying he is a fake, but he has been on the anti-vax media wagon and many have a tendency to inflate their credentials to increase their level of credibility, so did he invent mRNA or was he just a grad student involved? There is nothing but his word suggesting he invented it, but boy it sounds better than to say I was grad student in the beginning of mRNA research.

a reply to: EvilAxis

Listen, you're upset because i called you out for using a flimsy anecdote as some kind of evidence. I'm sorry if your ego can't take criticism. As i said before, move along, i have no interest in debating someone who's obviously obdurate.

originally posted by: fotsyfots

WOW ! only thing missing there is * mic. drop *......boom !

His resume? Did you actually review it too...lol

originally posted by: ScepticScot

A selection of expired patents doesn't really suggest he invented the vaccine technology.

As far as I can tell he was involved in some of the original research and certainly made a contribution. however the claim he invented the technology seems to be an exaggeration and made mainly by the doctor and his wife.

The actual used patent itself seems held by this researcher.

So he has said he was a grad student in the research and so I am assuming he was a part of it, but wasn't a lead or sponsor. Grad students typically do the grunt work of a project, so why would it be different here.

I also see in the Patents it talks about two different approaches in either gene therapy as in curing cancer OR vaccinations which it goes heavily into, and the two are not the same, so why was he such a big fan as a vaccine and now he is not? Maybe at some point he thinks he is owed more than he got in terms of notoriety.

Its kind or weird that all 6 patents talk basically about the same thing just slightly changed, so is this the normal process to have one thing and build multiple patents to cover all the bases?

a reply to: angelchemuel

Are you sure that's the reason why?

originally posted by: AaarghZombies

Except the "evidence" for this comes from several unnamed intelligence sources and a rumor that three people in the lab got sick.

Unnamed intelligence sources are notoriously bad. Just look at the sources for WMD in Iraq, and the scientists in the lab all spent time in close proximity to the wet market.

It's just as possible that the wet market contaminated the lab, not vice versa.

Wrong. We have government documents proving the Obama/Biden administration with Fauci in charge of the operation outsourced military experiments to make coronaviruses more lethal and infectious for humans to Wuhan China... The same Wuhan lab from where the virus "escaped."

We have emails from Fauci and from the second in command of NIH/NIAID expressing concerns to Fauci that these experiments were outsourced to Wuhan China and that it had a link to their agency. The only country to which the Obama/Biden and Fauci outsourced these experiments was to Wuhan China. There is no ifs, or buts.

The only ones making up crap and passing it for intelligent discourse are those like you.

originally posted by: Grenade

I’m not here to spend my time arguing.

You disproved that.

Re. Dr Robert Malone's credentials, it's a big red flag that he claims to have invented mRNA vaccines, a technology developed by several teams of scientists working for different companies. A top scientist, however ego-driven, would not usually be so transparently unsophisticated and immodest.

A network analysis of COVID-19 mRNA vaccine patents

a reply to: EvilAxis

Tell me... Does this mean that Alexander Fleming didn't discover penicillin?... After all, since his first discovery we have slightly different strains developed by other scientists...

...
Over 90 years ago, Alexander Fleming discovered the world’s first antibiotic, penicillin, while working at St Mary’s Hospital Medical School, which is now part of Imperial College London. The antibiotic was produced by a mold in the genus Penicillium that accidentally started growing in a petri dish. Now, for the first time, scientists have sequenced the genome of Fleming’s original penicillin strain by using samples that were frozen alive more than 50 years ago. Penicillium is a fungus that can be commonly found growing on food products such as bread or cheese.

The researchers also used the new genome to compare Fleming’s mold with two strains of Penicillium from the US that are used to produce the antibiotic on an industrial scale. The results reveal that the US and the UK strains use slightly different methods to produce penicillin, potentially suggesting new routes for industrial production. Molds like Penicillium produce antibiotics to fight off microbes and are in a constant arms race as microbes evolve ways to evade these defenses. The UK and the US strains likely evolved differently to adapt to their local microbes, explain authors. The team includes experts from Imperial College London, Centre for Agriculture and Biosciences International (CABI), and the University of Oxford.
...

92 years after fungus gave the world its first antibiotic penicillin, scientists have sequenced its genome

Just because other scientists have worked on the mRNA technology since Dr. Robert Malone first work doesn't mean that Dr. Malone wasn't the first one to discover/work on this technology...

If we were to follow the line of reasoning you and others have just conjured out of your magic hats then we could say that no one has ever discovered/invented anything... Because other people also worked on those discoveries and made better products, or had more efficient results...

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

We have government documents proving the Obama/Biden administration with Fauci in charge of the operation outsourced military experiments to make coronaviruses more lethal and infectious for humans to Wuhan China...

So you keep saying, but you've yet to provide a link to them.

I'm still awaiting the date and time of that Auchincloss to Fauci email in which you claim he speaks of, "the gain of function being outsourced".

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

Tell me... Does this mean that Alexander Fleming didn't discover penicillin?... After all, since his first discovery we have slightly different strains developed by other scientists...

...only Fleming was widely publicised in the media, which led to the misconception that he was entirely responsible for the discovery and development of the drug. Fleming himself referred to this incident as "the Fleming myth."

Wikipedia

Fleming didn't invent it single handed, nor claim to have. This was in 1928. Medical science has advanced beyond recognition since then. Multidisciplinary collaboration is the order of the day.

Regardless, Fleming is rightfully considered the father of antibiotics. Nobody but Dr Malone would claim he was the father of mRNA vaccines.

a reply to: EvilAxis

You only deny because it's all you know how to do.
Either that, or like always people like you become suddenly blind to evidence that is staring you right in the face...





In that email Auchincloss tells Fauci that the paper Fauci sent to Auchincloss states the NIH approved the gain of function research after the pause. After the Obama/Biden administration prohibited the research in the U.S.

It's obvious by this email that Auchincloss, and maybe even "Emily" didn't know this since she told Auchincloss that "she is sure no Coronavirus has gone through P3 framework..." But FAUCI himself sent that paper to Auchincloss and in the papers, according to Auchincloss, the NIH approved the gain of function research abroad after the pause. The only place where these military experiments were outsourced to is Wuhan China...

Since the second in command, and "Emily" apparently didn't know this the only other person that could have approved this was Fauci himself. More so since it was Fauci whom send the "gain of function research paper being outsourced abroad" to Auchincloss.

But you can deny it all you want.